Mission_Impossible Posted October 26, 2003 Report Share Posted October 26, 2003 Dear all, I was recently watching some Christian TV and was supprised at how successful they are. Although Christianity is a false religion, it still attracts the most converts and is the fastest growing religion by conversion. Unfortunately some idiotic "Sikhs" have also converted to this irrational and idiotic religion. There are also many other false religions like Islam and Hinduism which are trying to destroy Sikhism, shouldn't we now get off our asses and start a missionary movement of our own to take the message of our lord Waheguru to all humanity? Shouldn't we start saving people from the BS of the other false faiths? Isn't it time we counter attacked? Or are we just going to sit silently until our religion goes in to the great dustbin of history and we, our Gurus and Sikhism are nothing but mere memories of a once great promise which never came true because we just coudn't be bothered to act! What say you? I for one will be making plans to launch this along with some other like minded Sikhs. It is complete nonsense that Sikhism says we should not convert, if that was the case, then how did all the Sikhs of today get here? Because Sikhism is a religion which believes in being active and spreading the word of God. The Gurus and many other good Sikhs often went to villages all over Punjab and even to other countries to spread Sikhism. I have no idea why Sikhs don't have missionaries now, but they should, because Sikhism only says do not convert people by force (like Islam and Christianity used to) or pressure (like blackmail etc.) but all other good, kind and considerate methods are allowed. Well, let me know what you think and how we can get such a thing started... Thanks, Kind Regards, MI 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr §ingh Posted October 26, 2003 Report Share Posted October 26, 2003 Hanji I agree we should educate other people about our Religion and that would stop the Ignorance....main point of the site.. I'm opening a site where I'm comparing all major religions.... and showing people what their religion really teaches and compare that to Sikhi... Using their own quotes....... Mission Impossible bhaji..i still ned a couple of quotes from the Torah and Qu'ran about WOmen status....In praticle life I know how it is...but i need qoutes..........ANd as I knw that you are educated in religions ....I need a lil bit help from you The comparing wont be like sikhs.org.....It will be more about which religion says what within science...which religion says what about equality....How each religion is spread (i.e. Compassion or hatred/Force).. etc But hey I agree with u it really pisses me off when I see Sikhs converting to other religion. The other day I was reading a science/history/knowledgeble magazine..almost like national Geographic or whatever its called but in Swedish and in that it said that a people in a village knew that there was a baby by itself in th e forest(some parent had left it in the forest).. no1 dared to to into the forest and bring the child so this guy called "FATHER- SINGH" :evil: said he did his duty as a REAL CHRISTIAN to take care of the baby :roll: ... hence he brought the baby and took care of it... Now I was really pissed of that that guy ("FATHER SINGHW) was prolly a convert from Sikhism.. Wouldn't a Sikh do the same? thus I think we need to do more parchar..and spread the real message of Sikhism /Bhulla CHuk Maaf WJKK WJKF 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Harjinder Posted October 26, 2003 Report Share Posted October 26, 2003 Bring out the Sikh faith in broad daylight :shock: Are we proud to be Sikhs ? If yes then why don’t we consider our rich heritage a part of our monotonous life ? Why do we not greet our beloved ones by Sat Sri Akal, Gurfateh , Guru ang Sang ,Wahe Guru Ji da Khalsa ; Wahe Guru Ji di Fateh, or Bole So Nihal – Sat Sri Akal . Why do we influenced so deeply by other people ? Our conviction should be unimaginably deep. We should follow the Sikh way of life to the best of our capability and always work on enhancing our caliber to be true Saint-Soldiers. None can emulate the Sikh way of life. Why can’t we be the trend-setters ? We the followers of Nanak, the descendants of Gobind are worthy of to set the fashion prevailing globally. We Sikhs can build castles in the air by disseminating the message the Sikh faith has in store. It is a matter of utmost disgust that we have not been able to prove worthy of being the true sons of Guru Gobind .The mighty Guru considered his every Sikh as 125000 (Sava Lakh). We have not been able to make our presence be felt on a large scale. Even today in many parts of the U.S people are not aware of Sikhism and the brotherhood it has in store. Are 26000000 of us unworthy of creating awareness about the Sikh faith? The foremost thing is that we must unite for this purpose. We cannot create awareness among people by giving speeches or by distributing free literature. The need of the hour is that we should become sportsmen or actors , Chief Election Commisioners or Chief of Army Staffs, Judges or Body Builders, Software Engineers or Pilots and scatter ourselves around the world. When people will see us at high posts with turbans on our heads and unshorn beards they shall at first be stunned and their desire to know more about us shall know no bounds. We need be in the Headlines for good purposes with our turban intact to create awareness amongst people of all nations in the world. Let us revitalise the Panth and gear up for 2004 – 400 yrs. of the first Prakash of the Guru Granth Sahib !! Guru ang Sang -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted October 26, 2003 Report Share Posted October 26, 2003 I hate it wen i go 2 foreign centuries or places where sikhi hasn't touched der soil, da ppl der seem 2 pigeonhole me as being islamic, dis ignorance vexes me sumtimes. MI i kno ur proud of ur aryan heritage, and i kno ur not a racists ur jus looking after ur own interests. If u do start ur own missionary group, please encourage every1 regardless of der colour pls. Our Gurus' saw all of humankind as 1, in all Waheguru resides, as our Gurus' hav said, "How can u see God if u don't see him in all." 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jsb Posted October 26, 2003 Report Share Posted October 26, 2003 i agree with niranjana... converting isn't bad... but attempting in any way to force conversion... that's wrong... leave missionaries to the militant islam and chrisitianaity 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Daljeet Singh Posted October 26, 2003 Report Share Posted October 26, 2003 Bro, I understand your concern, at this camp we discussed this same topic, and I got some pamphlets from this Singh, about Door-to-Door gurmat teaching projects, which they started off in Vancouver, and are under progress.. There needs to be a sikh movement no doubt, and I know its gonna start in the foreign countries, rather than India. :roll: And I know it'll be successful with Waheguru's kirpa. There was a article posted on sikhsangat.com about the facts for conversion rates, and how the goray singhs who converted to sikhi had done it due to their love and devotion, and no committee/party had anything to do with it or did any work. So if you can see 6000-7000 goray sikhs who adopted guru nanak's teachings, without any effort from any outside parties, then how many will become sikhs if we told em about our religion. Sikhi is soo precious like a diamond, if you ever had a diamond, would you share it with anyone? No rite? Some may feel this way, which is being selfish, but its just how sikhi is, it has to flourish from inside the person, we just have to sow the seed in the minds of people searching for "the truth", and the seed will grow itself! My two cents! Bhul chuk maaf! 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Javanmard Posted October 26, 2003 Report Share Posted October 26, 2003 Only people who don't trust the beauty of their own religion try to impose on others. The last thing I would like to see is SInghs going door to door asking people: Have you heard about Guru Nanak? :evil: :evil: :evil: :evil: :evil: :evil: :evil: :evil: :evil: 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Punjabi Shera Posted October 27, 2003 Report Share Posted October 27, 2003 Yeh Niranjana is rite, Educate people about Sikhi rather than start missionary thing. Thats exactly what Guru Nanak did. He educated people, spread the word of God and asked them to remember one God @ all times. Guru Nanak did not ask anyone to convert their beliefs!!!! 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CK Posted October 27, 2003 Report Share Posted October 27, 2003 I think we should continue doing what we are doing...seva to help the hungry, feed the homeless, care for the sick...something that will inspire people to ask questions in a positive light. Eventually, my curiosity got the best of me. I started reading and learning about Sikhi because I was wondering why Sikhs wear turbans and was it really true that Sikhs can't cut their hair. When I found myself following the Sikh path, I don't think anyone was more surprised than I was. It just made sense to me. But the fact that I was actually converting my religion seemed astounding when I stopped to think about it. It was Guru's command and I followed it. But I have seen so many proseletyzing Christians in my life (including some in my own family) my first reaction is to raise my defenses and get away from that person. Had I met Sikhs like that, my reaction may have been to run. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest BikramjitSingh Posted October 29, 2003 Report Share Posted October 29, 2003 MI It is wrong to say that there are no such thing as Sikh missionaries. Sikhs have missionaries but they are mostly in India and work for organisations such as SGPC, DSGPC, Sikh missionary college and the various organisations working with Vanjaras in South India. There is a great misconception that Sikhism hasn't had missionaries or doesn't require them. This is because for us the word missionary conjures up images of the Christian missionaries using underhand means to convert people to their religion. Historically Sikhism has always had missionaries. If you read the Janam sakhis at each place Guru Nanak stayed during his travels he made converts to Sikhism. These converts formed Sangats and these Sangats increased due to other people joining in the Sangat and becoming Sikhs. During the times of the subsequent Gurus, these Sangats were organised and a missionary apparatus created known as the Peerhis of 52 people in charge of an area. During the time of Guru Arjan Sikhs from various parts of India would visit the Guru along with others who were interested in Sikhism. These others would receive Charan Pahul and become Sikhs. Similarly the Masands would also preach Sikhism in their area. Along with this missionary activity, there were also the preaching tours undertaken by the Gurus. The preaching tours of Guru Hargobind, Guru Tegh Bahadur and Guru Gobind Singh in the Malwa area were responsible for a considerable number of local Chaudharis ( headmen ) becoming Sikhs and along with them came their followers and kinsmen. The Gurus also invested various Gursikhs which deseminating Sikhism in their home regions. Bhai Pheru, Bhai Langah, Baba Punjab Singh amongst others. The Sikhs traders also carried Sikhism in all directions. Khatris took it to Eastern India and Aroras into Afghanistan. In Eastern India most of the major towns had a Sangat by the time of Guru Tegh Bahadur. By the time of the Maharaja Ranjit Singh a lot of people in Punjab became Sikhs in order to be identified with the ruling power. The Sangats outside Punjab lost touch with the Sikhs of Punjab and slowly reverted back into Hinduism. The only remindar that these Sangats ever existed was sometimes a solitary Udasi or a Sadhu who more often than not installed idols along with the Guru Granth Sahib in order to gain favour and patronage from the local Hindu populace. The first major attempt at missionary activity along lines similar to the Christians was tried in the 1930's after Gurdwara Nankana Sahib was brought back under Panthic control. The Nankana Sahib managment committee started Missionary activity in Western UP and the Punjab hills. In UP in just under a decade this mission managed to convert over 3 lakh lower caste Hindus into Sikhism, as well as giving an impetus to some tribes who had migrated from Punjab in the 18th century to declare themelves as Sikhs. Missionary tours were also organised in some areas of South India. Nowadays Sikh missions exist in Hapur and Agra in UP, in Rampur in Rajasthan as well as some in Nagpur and Hyderabad. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gupt Singh Posted October 29, 2003 Report Share Posted October 29, 2003 hey hey hey r u lot bibeki amritdhari gurmukh singhs/singhnees? all of you? if nt, dont worry about others, worry about yourselves. i used to be a bit pro-missionary but then i saw the big picture - if its in someones karma to be a sikh then it is. if it isnt then it isnt. after death it is not the end, its a circle. so a mad rush to get as many sikhs as possible isnt neccesary. MI im not dissing you or criticising you, but i dnt think your amritdhari yet (neither am i) maybe we should concentrate on sorting ourselves out and becoming sikhs of the guru before we try and bring others in. maybe write a book, or give speeches at your gurdwara to get the current youth attracted into sikhi, but theres no point tryna get more people when you already have shakey foundations...... 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Javanmard Posted October 30, 2003 Report Share Posted October 30, 2003 Khalsa Soulja wrote: r u lot bibeki amritdhari gurmukh singhs/singhnees could you please :cry: tell me where I could get milk in sarbloh bottles. I don't feel comfortable buying it in plastic bottles from the supermarket and my garden is not big enough to accomodate a cow. Do you know of any proper Gursikh shop/supermarket that sells milk in sarbloh bottles? :cry: thank you 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SAadmin Posted October 30, 2003 Report Share Posted October 30, 2003 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gupt Singh Posted October 30, 2003 Report Share Posted October 30, 2003 jus cuz u aint gurmukh enuf to feel a difference between eating as a bibeki or non bibeki doesnt mean that part of the rehat is not important.....many of your favourite snaataan sikh akali mahapurkh nihung singhs follow sarbloh bibek.... rather than taking the p*ss out of the parts of the rehat we are not disciplined enough to follow, we should admit our faults and not mock them. i know sikhs who live in the western world and will even get their water from springs sometimes and htey feel a difference from it...... since your a (pseudo) scholar ill give u sum evidence supporting sarbloh bibek: macauliffe talks about the small community in amritsar (i think) which refuse to intermarry w/ bahmans etc and maintain the original rehat, of which includes sarbloh bibek.....says this in the sikh religion under banda and its present condition" on p72 and 75 of pyare singh padams book - bhojanaad moundit naal chhakey tankhaiyaa - bhai daya singh, one of hte original panj......if one is not allowed to eat with people who have done kurehits after amrit then its also probably desirable to eat stuff which hasnt gone thru their hands at one point or another....... and on p75 "one should eat out of sarbloh" etc etc 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Niranjana Posted October 30, 2003 Report Share Posted October 30, 2003 Gur Fateh! No disrespect to anyone, but can we come back to the question in hand...Sarblohi Bibek, as fascinating a subject it is, is not the matter at hand here. There is another thread already set up for this topic elsewhere I believe, if not, then set one up and let’s please refrain from getting all personal and emotional –this is the biggest problem I’ve always found within Sikhs, they get all too personal with the slightest thing...Why??? It works totally to their own disadvantage... Where’s all the tolerance and calm nature gone? I know we’re Kshatriyas / Warriors, but come on...any decent soldier can tell you that getting into an emotional state messes up your line of attack/discussion/appeasement/defence....anyway, this is another issue too!!! Anyway...back to the subject: Missionaries...Bikramjit Singh has provided some interesting information on this front, which I believe we should consider. I personally hold steadfast to my earlier comments...no missionaries, but certain active promotion of Sikhi and broader understanding is mandatory...to start with, following on from the essence of Khalsa Soulja’s point, there’s no better way to raise awareness than for us to begin living ‘Gurmat’, this is the best marketing tool, the best promotion and the best means to raise awareness...all it takes is for one Sardar/Sardarni to be present in an environment to raise the profile of Sikhs... ...yes, there are many great charities set up by the Sikhs across the Diaspora, yes some Gurdwaras are involved in local charities in their neighbourhoods, but all too often all we see is Sikhs mingling and promoting within Sikhs –needs to be done, agreed...but guys, especially those in the US, come on...there are many institutions already in place that share the message of the Gurus (Amnesty International, NSPCC, Action Aid, Whizz Kid, Medical Foundation etc etc)...we really need more and more Sikh presence in these institutions...anyway... ...before drifting too far afield, the key point that Bikramjit Singh makes is the that “the word missionary conjures up images of the Christian missionaries using underhand means to convert people to their religion†...and as Lalleshvari indicates (correctly in my humble opinion) “the last thing I would like to see is SInghs going door to door asking people: Have you heard about Guru Nanak?†I too have from my cursory readings and references of the sources that Bikramjit Singh mentions seen that preachers of Sikhi have existed, but the manner has always been proactive rather than reactive, open-minded rather than mandatory conversion...Masands, Manjis, Udasis, Nirmalae, Marasis, Sikh Sangats and even Nihangs have always sought to spread Sikhi... ....in a nutshell, Udasis and Nirmalae have usually served as Auyrdvedic Doctors, Musicians, Yogic Healers whilst travelling from village to village in their deras and akaras...similarly Marasi (Musicians) would do the same with Kirtan...and Nihangs with their battlefield arts...the point being in teaching a person to heal themselves and protect themselves, Sikhi was spread...similar examples can be seen today, albeit not necessarily in the same context as these honest intentions have become subject to political and social influence as Bikramjit Singh has alluded in the closing paragraphs of his post... For quick example, consider 3HO and Yogi Bhajan, regardless of the issues surrounding this organisation (if you wish to discuss this topic please do so on the thread I started elsewhere “All that is 3HOâ€), the general approach can be traced back to that used by Udasis, i.e. teach people to heal themselves through yogic cuisine, exercise and naam simran...and Sikhi will naturally develop through influence... ...the AKJ during the 1970’s undertook a similar pattern with Bhai Fauja Singh influencing many through Nihang influenced Gatka-Khell, albeit the main target audience was young Sikhs themselves, we can see many members of the Jatha who have come from different backgrounds, albeit not as pronounced as say 3HO...again note: I am not discussing the AKJ or 3HO here, nor am I part of this movements or denying that there maybe wider issues surrounding these two groups, these are simply observational comments. Fundamentally, I do not feel that we need Christian type missionaries or Jehovah’s Witness type door knocking tactics to raise the profile of Sikhi...we can do it in our daily lives when we realise that Sikhi (Kirt Karni, Vand ke Shakna and Naam Japna) is not something to be done inside the Gurdwara alone...or indeed something we reserve when in the comany of other Sikhs or as we see all too often in the company of this Baba or that Sant... Forgive any foolish comments in the foregoing, GUR BAR AKAAAAAL! 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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