tableji Posted April 7, 2004 Report Share Posted April 7, 2004 oh and plus the other granths, they have not been cleared by the panth. The panth comes 1st, above the panj, above guru gobind singh ji. remember he gave amrit, made the panth, asked for amrit himself and became part of the khalsa! 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Narsingha Posted April 7, 2004 Report Share Posted April 7, 2004 Just a small query, which "Panth" are you referring to exactly? Within mainstream Sikhi for example, there are many groups who consider themselves as being "part of the Panth" yet differ in significant ways, eg, Taksalis, AKJ, Singh Sabhias (the majority), numerous Sants and their respective followers, Nishkam Sevak Jatha, 3HO, etc etc. Then you have others such as Naamdharis, Ramgharias, Ravidasis who are not affiliated with any organisation other than their own. Their views on Sarbloh Guru Durbar are not clear as they have no official position to my knowledge. Finally the Sanatan (traditional) Sikhis such as Nihangs, Nirmalas, Seva Panthis and Udhasis who do not recognise the authority of the S.G.P.C or their progeny. The Sanatan Sikhs who's sampardas are blessed by the Gurus themselves accept Dasam and Sarbloh Guru Durbar as Gurbani unquestionably. Once again, please clarify who's perspective you are speaking on behalf of. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tableji Posted April 8, 2004 Report Share Posted April 8, 2004 the panth is SGPC. im speaking on my own behalf. my personal views. i dnt belong to no groups or anything. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Morpheous Posted April 8, 2004 Report Share Posted April 8, 2004 The panth comes 1st, above the panj, above guru gobind singh ji. remember he gave amrit, made the panth, asked for amrit himself and became part of the khalsa! the panth is SGPC begs the question, did Guru Gobind make SGPC the panth? If yes - do they have lineage all the way back to realisation of the panth(1699)? If no, then how are SGPC(which is indeed a group!) the panth? In relation to the topic at hand, you commented on the Sarbloh Granth, All im sayin is, u dnt really need it. U can live without it! I would say that the kind of attitude that leads to loss of heritage and sikh tradition as well as values. We as Sikhs must investigate all available Granths , Tableji dismissing them is a very and ignoring them could be an insult to Guru ji, because at the end of the day they could be Guru Ji's writings. Singh, you also stated that you dont need Sarbloh Granth to live, one could argue that you dont need Guru Granth Sahib to live either! (ie most people in the UK havnt even heard of SGGS but they are still living) The Gurbani is there to help us live happily and in 'chardi kala'(it has many other roles also), the Sarbloh Granth could contain further formulas(from the Guru) that would help us live life as a Gursikh! Why miss out on a chance to learn further by simply closing your eyes and turning your back on a Granth ? Gurfateh Harpreet 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tableji Posted April 8, 2004 Report Share Posted April 8, 2004 lol uve got me all wrong, i dint say dnt read it!i sed that u dnt NEED it. U do need GGS, coz he is ur guru. The other granths are not at that status. Yeah sure they are good for knowledge and maybe history is goin out the window, bt remember, we still aint sure that it is all real bani, and these days u get ppl quoting dasam sayin yeah we can eat meat, we can do this we can do that! 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kamalroop singh Posted June 13, 2004 Report Share Posted June 13, 2004 Vahiguroo Ji Ka Khalsa Vahiguroo Ji Ke Fateh. Mahan Kosh is a wonderful encylopedia which is a great tool to anybody researching Sikhi. However to see it as gospel truth is something that is straying away from any kind of objective sense. In Mahan Kosh we find one or two words at most referenced as Braj Basha. Braj is used substantially in Adi Sri Guru Granth Sahib, and in Sri Guru Gobind Singhs Granths. This language is used in other important Sikh literature. Bhai Gurdas's Kabitts, and the works of Bhai Santokh Singh Ji. Kahn Singh Nabha refences the Sarbloh Granth as a Sikh text. As a part of what a Sikh should read, please see Gurmat Martand. However the mystery remains that we still see no reference or use of Braj by the respected Sikh Panthic Rattan Sardar Kahn Singh Ji. From this is can it be deduced that it may be the fact that Kahn Singh was not a scholar of Braj? Therefore from our above inference was he really qualified to analyse the Sarbloh Granth Sahib?( I would be pleasantly suprised if this argument is challenged with objective evidence.) 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sidak Posted June 13, 2004 Report Share Posted June 13, 2004 Kamalroop Singh - may i ask what the title of your thesis is (PhD i assume), the university it's being written at, and who is it being supervised by ? I think i can safely assume its not at Oxbridge or any of the London universities since none of their supervisors is a Dasam Granth specialist with perhaps the exception of Jeevan Deol, but he's not a PhD supervisor. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kamalroop singh Posted June 14, 2004 Report Share Posted June 14, 2004 Vahiguroo Ji Ka Khalsa Vahiguroo Ji Ke Fateh!! Dear Sidak Ji, an idea of a Phd is to research, and infer something which is unknown. One cannot reproduce previous work. In that respect no tutor, or supervisor is ever expert enough to understand complex theological arguments, or texts that are very specific. However with good structure, evidence, referencing, bibliography, and methods, it is possible to arrange the research into an A-Z of the subject. This allows the supervisor to be briefed into the arguments which will procede. The Supervisors have reached their doctorate level of scholarship as they have shown reasoning power, and mastery over methods, and research techniques. Therefore with this wealth of experience, they can understand most subjects well. In the case of using other languages, such as Braj, and Lehndi, it is necessary to provide full explanations. As well as referencing of any translation used as well as a transliteration scheme using the Indic ISO. In terms of the exact details of what Das is working on, this is not public domain information until I am finished. However to give you some idea separate universities will mark my final thesis jointly. Warm Regards, Kamalroop Singh 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sikh princess Posted June 16, 2004 Report Share Posted June 16, 2004 Kamalroop Singh. I asked you on the sikh heritage thread for references. Saying Bhai Vir Singh said..blah blah blah doesn't mean much unless you state in which book/text he makes that claim. I suppose you know the reason for references in a PhD thesis? Or are you going to expect your supervisors to read all of Bhai Vir Singh's book to see verify what Bhai Vir Singh's view is on Sarbloh Granth? Your view on the Patiala states makes no sense? Who were the scholars that Patiala state employed to do the brit's dirty work? Or are you expecting us to search out each and every scholar employed by Patiala state. I would have thought your Nabha state would have been more your target as Nabha State was the state that employed Bhai Kahan Singh for most of his life. Moreover just refering to a work of M A McAuliffe by just to title to prove a point is not sufficient. How about a few quotes as well as their general context? 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kamalroop singh Posted June 16, 2004 Report Share Posted June 16, 2004 1. Suraj Parkash Steek by Bhai Vir Singh, in Guru Gobind Singh life, its in there somewhere in the footnotes. It in the Eight Bhag. 2. Intelligence reports of the British. "Records of the Intelligence Department" 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sikh princess Posted June 16, 2004 Report Share Posted June 16, 2004 So Bhai Vir Singh just says.. the sarbloh granth is not old enough?. How about expanding on his reasons? A few quotes maybe? It is usual for quotes from the relevant portion of the text referred to. Moreover just refering to a work of M A McAuliffe by just to title to prove a point is not sufficient. How about a few quotes as well as their general context? Thanks, that's much appreciated. If you can give the quotes, i will check them up in a few days and post my comments I hope you will bear with this debate because some of the debates I've had with sanatan sikhs have had to be curtailed due to lack of positive response to my requests for proper references. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kamalroop singh Posted June 16, 2004 Report Share Posted June 16, 2004 You know the books find them.......... 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sikh princess Posted June 16, 2004 Report Share Posted June 16, 2004 a lalleshvari response..lol Good luck debating with ppl with time on their hands to search out your references and I was under the impression you wanted to debate 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kamalroop singh Posted June 16, 2004 Report Share Posted June 16, 2004 I'm not here to do the work for you. Like you read bani, then read the books. If they are not available to you, then thats your bad Karama. It maybe that Satguru Ji did not want you to read Sarbloh Granth Sahib Ji. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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