Jump to content

Hindu Tactics- Things never change


Guest BikramjitSingh
 Share

Recommended Posts

Guest BikramjitSingh

Anyone who has ever strayed onto a Hindu site cannot fail to notice how difficult it is for Hindus to accept the Sikhism is a separate religion.

In 1899 Bhai Kahan Singh Nabha wrote his famous book 'Hum Hindu Nahin' in which he destroyed the Hindu argument that Sikhism was a Hindu sect. The Hindus of Punjab were unable to counter Bhai Kahan Singh's book through rational argument so they started to use other tactics. They arranged for petitions to be presented to the Governor of Punjab as well as to the Sikh Maharajas. They claimed that the book could spark Hindu-Sikh riots and destroy the age old relationship between the Hindus and Sikhs. A similar argument was presented by the Hindus recently when the SGPC implementated the Nanakshahi calender.

The British authorities requested a legal opinion from a legal authority as to whether the book was anti-Hindu or promoted hated for Hindus. H A B Regiton gave his view that the book was solely a book that dealt with religion and in his view it had been written in a manner that it did not promote hatred for any religion. He also stated that the book broke no laws.

A anonymous person then wrote a letter to the Maharaja of Nabha by whom Bhai Kahan Singh was employed.

The book Hum Hindu Nahin which has been written anonymously will spark off riots amongst Sikhs and Hindus. The government is worried by this book and has given me the task of investigating further. Upon discovering the writer of the book the government is minded to give a expamplary punishment. I have travelled the entire Punjab and using my investigative skills have discovered that the writer is Kahan Singh. It would be in the interests of the state ( Nabha ) if the writer is punished before my report reaches the British government.

Seeing the number of Hindus pretending to the be Sikhs on Sikh forums shows that things never change.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

  • 1 month later...

Those Hindus :roll: :roll: :bling:

If Sikhism will get hurt it would be through our own actions. Anti-Sikh Sikhs, our leaders who put their personal and political interests ahead of those of Panth's. If we remain determined, no power in the world can slightly shake us. Hindus may believe whatever they want, but we are Sikhs, not Hindus. A different and a seprate religion, a different nation. The one and only Sikh Panth.

:bling:

:bling:

:bling:

:bling:

Link to comment
Share on other sites

  • 1 month later...

Truth Singh, your comments are spot on, nonetheless, it is interesting reading Sardar Bikramjit Singh's post and looking at the majority of other posts in this folder (anti-sikh propaganda) where we find the main issues being with the likes of the HUT and other extreme fundamentalist Wahabi and Sunni type organisations -this to me from my travels and readings appears to be a mainly UK issue, in India I do not find the same level of tension between Muslims and Sikhs as in the UK, where instead we are faced more with fundamentalist Hindoo agendas.

In the US, again, I see little of either, although the RSS through their VHP movements does appear to have a pretty strong grip out there too (more over through infiltrating many Yoga and Holistic schools).

Again, little of the Muslim-Sikh problem compared to the UK (in fact from what I noted, in NY Muslim-Sikh relations are pretty tight following the 9-11 event, whatever the underlying motive, similar reactions have not be forged in the UK though).

Perhaps it is worth looking into matters such as the influence of the Diaspora on religious movements (Muslims in the UK and Europe, Hindoos post-colonial India, Sikhs in BC, Canada, Evangelical Christians in the Mid-West US and so on)...

Any thoughts?

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Guest Punjabi Nationalist

I dunno man. I have only come to know about these "Sikh-Muslim" problems that happen in the UK through the net.

I have never experienced any of this. Quite the opposite, a large number of my friends are Muslims, two of my closest friends are Muslims (One a Pakistani Pathan, the other a Saudi Arabian).

I've always said, these alleged "Sikh-Muslim" problems are really "Indo-Pak" problems. Muslims here are mainly Turks and Kurds, none of them have any issues with Sikhs. Half of them probably do not even know anything about Sikhs or rarely ever see one (Not many Sikh/Punjabis in this area). Go to places like Kensington and Knightsbridge, there are plenty of Persian and Arab Muslims, none of them have any issues with or trouble Sikhs.

"Sikh-Muslim" problems is fiction. Pakistanis are not the only Muslims and they do not represent Muslims, believe me i know this from the Turks, Iranians, Arabs....

Sorry to say, but from what i read on various forums, most Sikhs in the UK really dont know anything about life outside of their own neighbourhoods and often generalize the small patch of earth they live on to the rest of the World.

(Niranjana that was not directed towards you BTW)

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Truth Singh, your comments are spot on, nonetheless, it is interesting reading Sardar Bikramjit Singh's post and looking at the majority of other posts in this folder (anti-sikh propaganda) where we find the main issues being with the likes of the HUT and other extreme fundamentalist Wahabi and Sunni type organisations -this to me from my travels and readings appears to be a mainly UK issue, in India I do not find the same level of tension between Muslims and Sikhs as in the UK, where instead we are faced more with fundamentalist Hindoo agendas.

In the US, again, I see little of either, although the RSS through their VHP movements does appear to have a pretty strong grip out there too (more over through infiltrating many Yoga and Holistic schools).

Again, little of the Muslim-Sikh problem compared to the UK (in fact from what I noted, in NY Muslim-Sikh relations are pretty tight following the 9-11 event, whatever the underlying motive, similar reactions have not be forged in the UK though).

Perhaps it is worth looking into matters such as the influence of the Diaspora on religious movements (Muslims in the UK and Europe, Hindoos post-colonial India, Sikhs in BC, Canada, Evangelical Christians in the Mid-West US and so on)...

Any thoughts?

Niranjana, About time someone thought of analysing the relationship of Sikhs and Muslims in UK. The problem is not so much with any other muslims or Punjabi muslims from West Punjab but lies with Mirpuris who often prefer being called Azad Kashmiris. These people have specifically targetted Sikh women. They have a vendetta towards Sikhs, it is deep rooted. Could it be that they are carrying the grudges against Sikhs because they once came under the Sikh reign of Maharaja Ranjit Singh. On the other hand, I have spoken to many Pathans, Aghanstani Muslims who still remember the bravery, courage of the Sikhs from generations hence respect the Sikhs.

We desperately need to research the cause of these problems. Anyone interested in research, please PM me.

BTW, These people migrated to UK at the same time as other immigrants. UK is more popular with these people, more so than USA, Canada and other western countries, hence the result of relationships which has impacted on the Sikh community in a very negative way.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Harmless, your observations are spot on, this is exactly the experiences I have encountered with the groups you mentioned. We have close family friends who are Muslims (usually of West Punjab or Iranian descent) who show much respect for the Sardars (so much so that one in fact, although being a practising Muslim, has the majority of his social ties with Sikhs).

Let's try and anlayse this with a mature and objective outlook to get to the bottom of the matter.

Regards,

Niranjana

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Guest Punjabi Nationalist

Mirpuris are largely concentrated in Bradford area i think, perhaps also Luton.

I was under the impression that Sikh-Pakistani problems were in places like Slough and Birmingham?

Still though, i am not convinced that there exists large-scale animosity between Sikhs and Muslims, or even Sikhs and Pakistanis across the UK. In one or two areas maybe, but thats about it.

Most Muslims dont know anything about Sikhs or Sikhism, and to be honest, dont even care to know... As the saying goes, "there is no point in building a mountain out of a mole-hill".

I know for many South Asians there is a sad case that it is a near impossibility for them comprehend the differences between religion, race, culture and even nationality, but really, the Muslim World is not confined to Pakistan and Bangladesh and there is a whole World outside of Indo-Pak politics.

I strongly advise that many of you choose your words carefully and dont be so quick to label isolated incidents between Sikhs and Pakistanis as Sikh-Muslim problems, which they are not. Mirpuris or Pakistanis whatever are a mere fraction of the Worlds almost 2 billion Muslims, keep that in mind.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Mirpuris are largely concentrated in Bradford area i think, perhaps also Luton.

I was under the impression that Sikh-Pakistani problems were in places like Slough and Birmingham?

Still though, i am not convinced that there exists large-scale animosity between Sikhs and Muslims, or even Sikhs and Pakistanis across the UK. In one or two areas maybe, but thats about it.

Most Muslims dont know anything about Sikhs or Sikhism, and to be honest, dont even care to know... As the saying goes, "there is no point in building a mountain out of a mole-hill".

I know for many South Asians there is a sad case that it is a near impossibility for them comprehend the differences between religion, race, culture and even nationality, but really, the Muslim World is not confined to Pakistan and Bangladesh and there is a whole World outside of Indo-Pak politics.

I strongly advise that many of you choose your words carefully and dont be so quick to label isolated incidents between Sikhs and Pakistanis as Sikh-Muslim problems, which they are not. Mirpuris or Pakistanis whatever are a mere fraction of the Worlds almost 2 billion Muslims, keep that in mind.

Punjabi Nationalist, More indepth research in desperately needed to put into perspective the underlying reasons which have resulted in unfavourable relations between communities here in Britian. I speak of first hand knowledge and experience and also having worked very closely with this community in particular has given me an insight into their thinking. Without generlising too much, it is fair to say that this community in particular has been problematic than any other faction of the muslim religion. This particular community is driven by an islamic agenda of conversion and in general, unlike the West Punjbis is less liberal or educated in their attitudes I agree that it is unfair to blame all muslims for example an Iranian Muslim historically has no vendetta towards Sikhs whereas factions of Pakistani Muslims are still seeking revenge for 1947, and yet it were the Sikhs who lost the most in life and posessions.

Bradford, Birmingham, Slough, Yorkshire, Burnley and Manchester have a large majority of Mirpuris, they tend to live together and usually occupy pockets of areas in inner cities. With the extra support of the Goverment this community has made a considerble improvement in education, the young are now entering Universities. But the problems such as inter- breeding, forced marriages and the belief system that "our way is the only way" still prevails to a large extent.

Those Sikh girls who are not educated in their own religion are more likely to fall prey than those who are. It is the role of the parents to impart education but usually the parents themselves are either too busy or are themselves illiterate in the Sikh philosophy. Occasionally, I hear folks say, " so an so's daughter has run away with a "muslim". And I physically feel sick because I know that daughter will soon regret the decision or that daughter will be deported to Mirpur or Pakistan where she may be put into business. A daughter of sardars once who proudly walked in their capital city of Lahore now sits in the kotha. My heart bleeds!

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Guest Punjabi Nationalist

Thank you for your response Harmless.

I am aware of a few things regarding Mirpuri population in the UK such as their general performance in secondary education, forced marriages of girls (often to their own cousins back in Kashmir/Pakistan) and honor-killings/blood feuds.

Altho, the Sikh-Mirpuri problems is news to me so i thank you to drawing my attention to that.

As for situation in 1947, yes we all lost out but i am sorry that some have not yet managed to move on from this. However, i would like to point out that in the overall picture of Punjab, the number of Muslims killed and uprooted from their homes was larger than that of the Sikh-Hindu population.

However, any Mirpuri grudges against Sikhs probably date back to a time much earlier than the last century. I am amazed that they could still hold these grudges and would want to seek revenge for past deeds that may have been inflicted upon them hundreds of years ago.

How serious or common is this threat of forced conversions and/or forced marriages that the Mirpuri community poses against Sikh girls?

Ps, never heard of this "Azad Kashmiri" identity before. Mirpuri is a variation of Punjabi spoken in part of Kashmir. Its speakers are largely considered to be ethnic Punjabis.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

[

Thank you for your response Harmless.

I am aware of a few things regarding Mirpuri population in the UK such as their general performance in secondary education, forced marriages of girls (often to their own cousins back in Kashmir/Pakistan) and honor-killings/blood feuds.

Altho, the Sikh-Mirpuri problems is news to me so i thank you to drawing my attention to that.

As for situation in 1947, yes we all lost out but i am sorry that some have not yet managed to move on from this. However, i would like to point out that in the overall picture of Punjab, the number of Muslims killed and uprooted from their homes was larger than that of the Sikh-Hindu population.

Punjabi Natiionalist, my grandmother recalls this year to be the worst year ever in the history of human kind, when humans turned into butchers, mercilessly killings neighbours. Whilst the Sikhs were uprooted and butchred in the West of Punjab the same happened in the East Punjab for the muslims. As for the number of lives, the loss was greater for the Sikhs (please check valid sources).

However, any Mirpuri grudges against Sikhs probably date back to a time much earlier than the last century. I am amazed that they could still hold these grudges and would want to seek revenge for past deeds that may have been inflicted upon them hundreds of years ago.

I am guessing the reasons for their foul ideology, it is Islam coupled with

some vendetta. I really don't know. I would like to do some research on it.

How serious or common is this threat of forced conversions and/or forced marriages that the Mirpuri community poses against Sikh girls?

We are all living in a free society. Mirpuris cannot impose any kind of conversion on Sikh girls. However certain manipulative tactics are used in colleges and Universities such as asking Sikh girls out with the view of converting. The foolish girls fall into their prey. Also with education have come new and sophisticated ways of selling Islam. Sikh girls need to aware of Islam pushers.

Ps, never heard of this "Azad Kashmiri" identity before. Mirpuri is a variation of Punjabi spoken in part of Kashmir. Its speakers are largely considered to be ethnic Punjabis.

These people are not like the pure Kashmiris, but are just on the border of Kashmir and Pakistan. These people like to be assiciated with Kashmir and therefore call themselves Azad. As for the language, Mirpuri is a dialect of Punajbi.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Guest Punjabi Nationalist

Punjabi Natiionalist, my grandmother recalls this year to be the worst year ever in the history of human kind, when humans turned into butchers, mercilessly killings neighbours. Whilst the Sikhs were uprooted and butchred in the West of Punjab the same happened in the East Punjab for the muslims. As for the number of lives, the loss was greater for the Sikhs (please check valid sources).

Hmmm, by all accounts i have been informed that the largest number of killed in Punjab were Muslims.

No doubt, Muslims started the killings and riots in Punjab, but the retaliation they suffered was far more swift and devastating. Fundamentalism and religious extremism had little to do with the killings. Most of the initial killings actually revolved around land and property grabbing in Western Punjab were there were some very successful Hindu and Sikh landlords, living in Muslim majority districts....

These killings, coupled with propaganda spread by the Muslim League party, sparked off riots and retaliation all over Punjab.

I cannot give you a specific internet link, but common approx figures i have come across suggest that 6 million Hindus and Sikhs were uprooted from West Punjab and 8 million Muslims displaced from East Punjab.

As far as i know, no city or district in West Punjab had even a slight Sikh or Hindu majority, unlike in East Punjab where cities like Amritisar and Jalandhar were 80% Muslim before they were all driven out to Pakistan...

Dont forget, that Sikhs are a tiny minority. 15% of undivided Punjab was Sikh, 33% Hindu, 51% Muslim, the rest Christian, Buddhist, Parsi (Insignificant minorities).

My father often tells me of how a train carrying refugees from West Punjab arrived in Amritsar with only the dead bodies of slain Hindus and Sikhs. In retaliation 3 trains carrying Muslim refugees were stopped in Punjab and every last Muslim on them massacred before the trains were sent to Lahore....

A pind of ours that was luckily awarded to Amritsar district (Just 20 km from Lahore) is a small town with a 400 year old Mosque, no Muslims remain. Altho my Dadiji was living in Lahore at that time it is clear what the fate of the Muslim population in that pind was...

I just want to end on the note that we were all innocent victims, but we cannot continue to play the blame game, but accept what our communities did to eachother.

I am guessing the reasons for their foul ideology, it is Islam coupled with

some vendetta. I really don't know. I would like to do some research on it.

Lack of education, attitude of their families towards Sikhs...

We are all living in a free society. Mirpuris cannot impose any kind of conversion on Sikh girls. However certain manipulative tactics are used in colleges and Universities such as asking Sikh girls out with the view of converting. The foolish girls fall into their prey. Also with education have come new and sophisticated ways of selling Islam. Sikh girls need to aware of Islam pushers.

Dont get me wrong, im not flat out rejecting this, but i am still a bit sceptical of how large a problem this is in universities across England. Im thinking this is a problem in one or two specific areas.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

PN, My readings and hearing people's experiences inform otherwise... regardless the brutal barbarian acts of 1947 are unjustifiable. It had everything to do with fundamentalism and religious extremism, the looting adn property grabbing was part of it. Muslims gained a country, when half of India was given to Islam. Despite the suffering on both sides, the Sikhs lost their territory. Had it not been for Hindu RSS extremistism, perhaps Jinnah may not have demanded Pakistan. Ironically not a single muslim had to sacrifice himself to gain a country, (the communal riots followed afterwards) Jinnah's intellect, leadership and political power was no doubt commendable. On the other hand our leader with a narrow vision were kept in the dark by Nehru and Gandhi. Sikhs gave sacrifices for the freedom of India and who gained by their sacrifices??? Not the Sikhs! that for sure!

Dont get me wrong, im not flat out rejecting this, but i am still a bit sceptical of how large a problem this is in universities across England. Im ]thinking this is a problem in one or two specific areas.

Generally speaking those girls who have no knowledge of their heritage are more likey to fall into the islam pushers. This problem is not confined to one or two areas but is spread out widely. I do not wish to scaremonger but this is the reality. The Hindu community too is facing the same crisis.

Also I would like to add that mulism girls are now fighting the restrictions imposed on them such as marrying cousins, or being sent to Pakistan at the age of 16 etc etc. Infact, my son is currently being pursued by a Mirpuri girl, I don't say horray.. let's convert this girl in to Sikhism. I have been advising her that our religiosn are not compatible and our beliefs differ.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

  • 2 weeks later...

ur right punjabi nationalist..most of the problems are between nationalists and patriots..sadly the media and people on the street label them sikhs and muslims, when they are from deserving such titles.

the truth is sikhs and muslims tend to be at the forefront of gang warfare and fighting; and naturally they clash sometimes; whether its over women or over drugs..and in the process the gang warfare turns to relegious discrimination (best way of recruiting people i guess.)

not to mention things being blown out of proportion..i have never been hassled..i have been given funny looks, but ive experienced that with 'apneh' too..nothing major..and ive never seen sikh gurls being converted..yes they do try it; but when one has the inner strangth and pyaar for sikhi; they know its not worth wasting their breath..hence our bibiya should strive to learn about their faith and have the strength to profess their faith and re-educate those narrow minded fundementalists exactly who we are and what we're about (note:99% of these extremists arent the brightest stars in the universe..they like picking on the weak and vulnerable)

this isnt to say the problem is massive (only in mass muslim areas; rare cases) but at the same time it DOES exist..going back to muslim and sikh lads, aside from being mass populations in the uk, they are at the fore front of fighting..when u mix alcohol, women, drugs, ego and anger together- ur bound to get a situation where live wires connect! so yes muslims in the uk are well aware of sikhism..and of sikhs..and sikh history..the partition of india..not to mention some stirring hindus and englishmen..and this is where the problem begins..

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Guest Punjabi Nationalist

Harmless - Yes many Sikhs did lose their territory (If you mean privately own land), however, i am always sceptical as it relates to a Sikh state being given any serious consideration by anyone at the end of British colonisation, for the following reasons:

1) Sikhs were only 15% of Punjab, and scattered throughout the province.

2) None of Punjab's major towns or cities had a Sikh majority.

3) Amritsar (City) was as much as 80% Muslim. This just goes to show how small Sikhs were as a religious community even in their own Holy cities.

4) None of the Sikh princely states shared a border with eachother, so they could not have merged into a viable, self-dependent country.

5) I believe some Sikh states had Hindu majority populations, perhaps even all of them did.

I would also disagree about Muslims not having to sacrifice anything to get a country. Muslims from United and Central Provinces sacrificed much for a country. Think about it, what was Hindustan before Mughal rule? Nothing... Everything of owe and glory in that part of the World is due to the Muslims, and they sacrificed their entire heritage to go and live in more backwards (at that time) and tribal regions like Punjab, Sindh, Baluchistan and NWFP.

But yes, Sikhs gave more lives for India than anyone else, but got nothing in return.

About your son and a Mirpuri girl, i can understand your reservations.

sikh_fauge - regarding your comment:

"going back to muslim and sikh lads, aside from being mass populations in the uk, they are at the fore front of fighting..when u mix alcohol, women, drugs, ego and anger together- ur bound to get a situation where live wires connect! so yes muslims in the uk are well aware of sikhism"

Again, i hate to sound like a whinning old fool, but this is only applies to areas where there are Pakistani Muslims and Sikhs, with little or no other ethnic minority community. Muslims where i live dont know anything about Sikhs or Sikhism, and they dont know about (and care nothing for) South Asian history or politics.

Also, your comment on Sikhs and Muslims being at the 'forefront of gangs and fighting' does not apply here either. Actually, im pretty sure if Sikhs tried to involve themselves in anything gang related around here they'd get killed off pretty quick, same with Pakistanis....

Gangs only work when you are in numbers, which Punjabis are not...

My point in all this is that people need to choose their words more carefully. Muslims do not = Pakistanis, Indian-Pakistani problems do not equal Sikh-Muslim problems. Finally, lets not try and generalize the behaviour of one Sikh community to that of another. (Im not directing that at you BTW)

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Harmless - Yes many Sikhs did lose their territory (If you mean privately own land), however, i am always sceptical as it relates to a Sikh state being given any serious consideration by anyone at the end of British colonisation, for the following reasons:

1) Sikhs were only 15% of Punjab, and scattered throughout the province.

2) None of Punjab's major towns or cities had a Sikh majority.

3) Amritsar (City) was as much as 80% Muslim. This just goes to show how small Sikhs were as a religious community even in their own Holy cities.

4) None of the Sikh princely states shared a border with eachother, so they could not have merged into a viable, self-dependent country.

5) I believe some Sikh states had Hindu majority populations, perhaps even all of them did.

PN ji, Answer my simple question. During the 40 years of the Sikh raj, what popuation of Sikhs occupied Punjab? What percentage of Punjabis constituted Hindus and Muslims?

I would also disagree about Muslims not having to sacrifice anything to get a country. Muslims from United and Central Provinces sacrificed much for a country. Think about it, what was Hindustan before Mughal rule? Nothing... Everything of owe and glory in that part of the World is due to the Muslims, and they sacrificed their entire heritage to go and live in more backwards (at that time) and tribal regions like Punjab, Sindh, Baluchistan and NWFP.

PN ji, Oh dear I am so sorry that for almost 1000 years muslims went into so much trouble to violate and rape a country like India. I mean how difficult it must have been to loot and plunder and ofcourse convert those low life Hindu infidels (that wasn't difficult) And its not easy to demolish temples especially those thousands of years old. And Khalsa made their job harder, the infidels preferred to die than convert.

But yes, Sikhs gave more lives for India than anyone else, but got nothing in return.

We agree on something.

About your son and a Mirpuri girl, i can understand your reservations.

The girl is besotted with my son. I am concerned about her welfare, if found out she will be deported to Azad Kashmir (Mirpur).

Kind Regards

Link to comment
Share on other sites

[

ur right punjabi nationalist..most of the problems are between nationalists and patriots..sadly the media and people on the street label them sikhs and muslims, when they are from deserving such titles.

the truth is sikhs and muslims tend to be at the forefront of gang warfare and fighting; and naturally they clash sometimes; whether its over women or over drugs..and in the process the gang warfare turns to relegious discrimination (best way of recruiting people i guess.)

not to mention things being blown out of proportion..i have never been hassled..i have been given funny looks, but ive experienced that with 'apneh' too..nothing major..and ive never seen sikh gurls being converted..yes they do try it; but when one has the inner strangth and pyaar for sikhi; they know its not worth wasting their breath..hence our bibiya should strive to learn about their faith and have the strength to profess their faith and re-educate those narrow minded fundementalists exactly who we are and what we're about (note:99% of these extremists arent the brightest stars in the universe..they like picking on the weak and vulnerable)

Mirpuris Pakistanis are at the forefront of drugs and the gang culture. In terms of employment and and Education they are at the bottom along with Bangladeshis and Blacks. Sikhs, Hindus and Chinese are exceeding their white counterparts in Education achievement targets. I have not the time to search now but you can find these statictics on various websites. But it doesn't mean to say that all Pakistanis are failing and all Sikhs are succeeding. But the figures do give an overall picture of the minorities living in the UK. On the whole Punjabi Pakistanis are more successful than Mirpuri Pakistanis. It is important to distinguish between these groups, so that not all muslims get tarnished with the same brush. which ofcourse would be unfair.

Sikhs on the whole do not have the time to form thuggish gangs. Their expectations of themselves tends to be high and pressure from the parent to do well sufficient enough to keep them out of trouble. My point is that it is not right to compare these groups as there is a huge disparity and cultural differences as well social and religious.

this isnt to say the problem is massive (only in mass muslim areas; rare cases) but at the same time it DOES exist..going back to muslim and sikh lads, aside from being mass populations in the uk, they are at the fore front of fighting..when u mix alcohol, women, drugs, ego and anger together- ur bound to get a situation where live wires connect! so yes muslims in the uk are well aware of sikhism..and of sikhs..and sikh history..the partition of india..not to mention some stirring hindus and englishmen..and this is where the problem begins..

The Mirpuri muslims donot have much knowledge of their own religon nevermind other religions. They tend to follow Koran literally, and become quite fundamental of the teachings. This means that their way is the only way. They also tend to please their elders by converting infidel women. These people are in awe of the Sikhs and to dishonour the Sikhs is like a victory for them. (the underlying reasons must be researched)The easy way is to target innocent girls. I am talking of fundamental Mirpuris here and not other muslim groups. The mass migration of muslims from other countries couldn't care less and have no interest in converting anyone or any groups of people. Well not yet anyway!

Kind regards

Link to comment
Share on other sites

PN

You are either very ignorant or just have an agenda trying to belittle Sikhs

Amritsar (City) was as much as 80% Muslim. This just goes to show how small Sikhs were as a religious community even in their own Holy cities.

Amritsar city had a population of roughly 40% Muslim and Hindu each and 20 % Sikh. I don't know where you are getting your facts from but you need to recheck them

None of the Sikh princely states shared a border with eachother, so they could not have merged into a viable, self-dependent country.

Apart from one Sikh state Kapurthala, all the other Sikh states such as Patiala, Jind, Nabha and Faridkot shared common borders. Perhaps you should write about something you actually know abour rather than filling this forum with half baked facts and ideas.

I believe some Sikh states had Hindu majority populations, perhaps even all of them did.

Sikhs were a majority in Faridkot state ( 56 % ), 40 % in Patiala and Nabha and 20 % in Jind. Hindus made up only 30 % of the population of these Sikh states. Get you facts straight.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Perhaps you should write about something you actually know abour rather than filling this forum with half baked facts and ideas.

A simple "you sources are wrong" would have sufficed.

Is it going to adversely affect your spirituality and love for Guruji by being polite?

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Guest Punjabi Nationalist

PN ji, Answer my simple question. During the 40 years of the Sikh raj, what popuation of Sikhs occupied Punjab? What percentage of Punjabis constituted Hindus and Muslims?

Yes, much of Punjab had a Sikh Maharaja. Altho, im not so sure he ruled as a Sikh. By all accounts, his rule was secular. His army also had Hindu and Muslim soldiers, in addition to Sikhs.

Khalistan or Sikhistan are not words which were used by the Maharaja. His courts, continued to use Persian. He even married non-Sikhs.

In terms of employment and and Education they are at the bottom along with Bangladeshis and Blacks. Sikhs, Hindus and Chinese are exceeding their white counterparts in Education achievement targets.

Ok, thats true to some extent, When i studied sociology we had a look at some overall education statistics of England (From the 1990's). Pakistanis, Bangladeshis, Irish and West Indians were at the bottom. English, "Indian Indians" and Africans were roughly in the middle, and "East African Indians" and Chinese right at the top.

What was interesting is that the Indians who got booted out of Africa (Mostly Gujuratis) were noticeably higher than Indians who had migrated straight from India (Mostly Punjabis). They are also classed separately.

Also that West Indian girls were actually ranked pretty high while Pakistani girls performed even less than Pakistani boys. (Reason given was lack of encouragement from home and submissive attitude to negative stereotyping from teachers, unlike West Indian girls who reject these negative labels and work to prove their teachers wrong).

PN

You are either very ignorant or just have an agenda trying to belittle Sikhs

Yes everyone in the World is out to "get the Sikhs".

A simple "you sources are wrong" would have sufficed.

Is it going to adversely affect your spirituality and love for Guruji by being polite?

C'mon, this is the internet. Being rude is apart of it.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

"What was interesting is that the Indians who got booted out of Africa (Mostly Gujuratis) were noticeably higher than Indians who had migrated straight from India (Mostly Punjabis). They are also classed separately."

PN Veer, I agree, but let's not forget the flood of Sikhs who came in this group too during the 1970s, a time when the majority of Sikhs who had arrived in the 1950s as Manual labourers had long shed their Khalsa Saroop.

It was indeed the East African Sikhs during the 1970s who helped reform this trend of shedding one's Kesh and identity by refusing to part with their Khalsa Identity and combining their practice as Sikhs with professional jobs (as they had done in East Africa).

I know this is a little off topic, but it's just funny given all the posts and views we see and hear today belittling the so-called Kenyan Dastaar, when it was this Dastaar and the East African Sikhs who heavily contrbuted to the maintenance of Khalsa Saroop in the UK.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Sher Singh ji, thanks for providing more accurate figures.

PN ji, the reign of Maharaja was a a true secular rule, but within the secularist state the Khalsa panth was safeguarded as ware moslems and Hinduism. Maharaja's army in addition to Sikhs, Moslems and Hindus also consisted of Europeans.

Khalistan or Sikhistan are not words which were used by the Maharaja. His courts, continued to use Persian. He even married non-Sikhs.

There was not need to use both Khalistan or Sikhistan words, remember the reign was truly secular, which also meant that all religions were protected, there were no organised massacres of the minorities as in India since 1947.

Well, by all means Hindus had been doing that to their own kind long before Ghaznavi, Aurangzeb...

So it makes it acceptable for Islamic invaders to do so. Hmmm.

Whatever crimes Muslims may have committed, Muslims from Hindustan still left behind a land and heritage made rich from Muslim rule. They sacrificed their entire heritage to go and live in Pakistan, where they were quickly demoted to second class citizen by the natives.

Oh really! I think you forget that the West Punjab was mainly occupied by the Sikhs and was the richest half of Punjab. And BTW how about those handful Sikhs and Hindus who are still living there. Do you emphaise with them too. Or is it not PC to do so?

You know Harmless Ji, im not trying to argue with you over nothing, but i dont give suffering of Muslims or Hindus any less importance than suffering of Sikhs at time of partition. I also dont romanticize Sikh history to suit political agendas or just plain ego. (Not saying that you do).

You know PN ji, Suffering is the same regardless of any religion, creed or caste. I don't need to romanticize Sikh history, Sikh history is not Mahabharta, just let the facts speak out, that is all.

Niranjana ji, yes you are right about the Kenyan dastaar. Anyone know why a particular style was adopted by the East African Sikhs? My father stayed in Kenya for number of years and never altered his style but then again my father is a leader not a follower :)

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Join the conversation

You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.
Note: Your post will require moderator approval before it will be visible.

Guest
Reply to this topic...

×   Pasted as rich text.   Paste as plain text instead

  Only 75 emoji are allowed.

×   Your link has been automatically embedded.   Display as a link instead

×   Your previous content has been restored.   Clear editor

×   You cannot paste images directly. Upload or insert images from URL.

Loading...
 Share

×
×
  • Create New...