women in bhai chaupa singhs rehatnama

[Gupt Singh]

this is a continuation from a previous discussion (this board or another i cant remember) where people were stressing that bhai chaupa singh was anti women.

heres a post from the ever informative balpreet singh from tapoban.org:

The Chaupa Singh rehitnama is interesting on different levels. Chaupa Singh was a Chhiber Brahmin and sometimes he seems to let a bit of a Brahmin bias enter into his work. At other times he is completely egalitarian and condemns caste in all forms. "Naa daekhai Khatree, naa daekhai Shood ki Vaish hai. Sikh Guru kaa daekhai, jaat barn naa daekhai" meaning "One should not look at whether someone is Khatri or Shudra or Vaish. One should look whether someone is a Sikh, one should not look at caste or clan." (77) All my references on this rehitnama come from the Padam book.

The Chaupa Singh rehitnama also contains a number of internal contradictions which indicate that it has been tampered with. One very clear case is the situaton of "saluting the sun". "Guru kaa Sikh praatay outh kay sooraj noo(n) namastay aakh kay, Sikhaa(n) noo Vahiguru Jee kee Fateh bulai" (91) meaning, when a Sikh rises in the morning, he should say "namastay" to the Sun and then Fateh to the Singhs. That's problematic on a number of fronts, seeing as how Sikhs don't revere the sun and the sun hasn't risen when a Sikh gets up (last part of night ie. amrit vela). But the rehitnama later contradicts itself: "Jo sooraj dayvtay noo namaskaar karay, so Tankhaiyaa" (105), meaning, "One who salutes/does namaskaar to the sun is a Tankhaiyaa".

And so I come to the issue of women in the Chaupa Singh rehitnama. This again is a very confused issue. I havn't seen the manuscript you quote which says not to give Paahul to women, but the common Chaupa Singh rehitnama says the following: "Jo Sikh, SikhNee noo(n) khanday dee paahul naa dayvay, so Tankhaiyaa" (105) meaning, "that Sikh who does not give khanday kee paahul to a female-Sikh, is a Tankhaiyaa".

Even in regards to reading Sree Guru Granth Sahib, your references are correct, but the same rehitnama then goes on to say, "Guru kee SikhNee Granth Sahib pothee paRn sikhay..." (107) meaning a female-Sikh should learn how to read Sree Guru Granth Sahib.

Overall, we can learn interesting things from rehitnamas, but we can't consider them to be the authority on rehit. Rehit has been passed down amongst Gursikhs and it's hard to find but it still exists. Only that rehit is authentic which can pass the test of GurbaaNee.

so, conclusion.............i dont think someone would so blatantly contradict themseves.....do u think that rehats have been changed over time? i heard the original bhai chaupa singh rehatnamas remain? etc

[Pheena]

Rehat has to change overtime, as do rules and regulations of the world and the laws. If it was in the Rehat 200 years ago to not to trust muslims, there must have been a reason, for in those times Muslims were against Sikhs. so it was told, But if you still follow that part of the Rehat, it seems obsurd as the Muslim Emperors that were bent on killing sikhs do not exist today. So the Rehat must change to accomedate the Present Time.

Then the question becomes Who has the right to change the Rehat. Who has the ability to gather up the right words that do not contain loop holes and no contradictions. That right there is the issue taht is causing the problems. If someone does not like the change in the rehat, they take the rehat and create a different group that follows their rehat. Its a never ending cycle of division.

[Mr §ingh]

rehat.. think not..

I believe it it encouraged to not trust Muslism..

and I have noticed TODAY that I still can NEVER EVER trust a Believing Muslim..

I might sound like racisit I got some nice Muslim friends I hang out with..

everytime I tell them to keep it....in himself it always apprears to be that half of the class knows it after a time :roll:

this has not just happened ONCE BY ONE MUSLIM..

I have nothing against muslims overall..

but I've jsut ntoiced that!

but i still dont believe its a part of the REHAT as something Sikhs MUST DO

Rehat is nothing that can be reformed