Shasterkovich Posted December 5, 2003 Report Share Posted December 5, 2003 Has anyone else noticed how David Blunkett's assimilation-not-intergration (ANI) policies have started making tentative attacks on Punjabi communities? Last year, there was that fiasco where the racist and blind DB insisted that in the privacy of their own homes, Punjabis should speak English and not Punjabi. Now the citizenship (naturalisation) requirements include a mandatory indoctrination on their version of British history, the "changing roles of women in British society" (see the Home Office website), and English language. The requirement to know English is the only reasonable thing on that list. But all this is not my point. My point is that sexual assaults on Punjabi women are imminent in centres of Asian dominance such as Southall. The gorey are cunning and crafty. They are starting to talk about "multiculturism", "integration" (they mean assimilation) and "modernisation". All of this is David Blunkett's plan. They are now encouraging (through popular music, videos, peer pressure and television) the KAALAY to seduce Punjabi girls. Kaalay ways are different from ours. They have no manners, no respect and no courtesy. They seduce women noisily and vulgarly - it's a part of their culture. In Southall, they have become bold enough to drive around with their kaala music playing loudly, lechering and calling out and embarassing respectable Punjabi girls. This is slowly becoming worse - they are openly standing in the street in small gangs in some cases, trying to seduce girls. This has to stop. Even if you don't agree with me on this issue, I urge you to look at the realities of this situation. If a Punjabi girl is physically molested, she will experience too much shame to report this incident honestly to her family. If one of them is "given a lift" in a car, anything could happen. There is a part of kaala culture that involves a group of males having sex with one female, one after another or 2 at a time. If this happens even a very few times, Southall and the Punjabi community will be utterly destroyed, and the kaalay will no longer have any fear.. Prevention first, and then, when we see that the prevention is'nt working, the remedy must be brought into play. This is a very serious problem, which is bigger than the delinquent youths and adolescent girls at the centre of the action. This is a part of a wider political initiative designed to break down the unique identity of the Punjabi people. Drastic measures will be required very soon. The question is, have we become too soft to do anything about this situation that's about to unfold? My dad was involved in the Southall riots against the National Front and the police etc. in the 1970s. Are we made of the same stuff to be ready to do the same once again? There is a department of the Home Office which is responsible for "dispersing" asylum seekers all around the country. It is no accident that they chose the Somali asylum seekers to all be settled in Southall, while their applications are determined. If they lose their fear, all hell will break loose. Therefore less bhang and bhangra, and more awareness and distrust of what's happening on a larger scale politically. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hari Posted December 6, 2003 Report Share Posted December 6, 2003 The "kaalay" as you put it have enough problems of their own. "The best laid plans of mice and men go oft astray" Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shasterkovich Posted December 7, 2003 Author Report Share Posted December 7, 2003 I hope you're right. But the problem is that when you take a chance on the bad aspects in someone's character, your chances of success are much higher than if you take a chance on their good qualities. The craftiness of gorey is astonishing. As history has shown, they are masters of using one race/people against another, and then coming over as the "protector" of both, and establishing themselves as the ruler. They are masters in the art of treachery. However, they are not stupid. They will not run into a brick wall..... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ms514 Posted December 7, 2003 Report Share Posted December 7, 2003 Sat Sri Akal: "Kaalay ways are different from ours. They have no manners, no respect and no courtesy. They seduce women noisily and vulgarly - it's a part of their culture." My my, aren't we sounding a little racist this morning. Perhaps you need to look at how Punjabis (not Sikhs) are acting out there too. If it wasn't for these "Kaalays", you and I would not be able to get a respectable job!!! They gave up a LOT to fight for the rights of minorities. You got a problem with racist parties in Britain, good...take up the issue with them. But don't just extend that problem to African Americans. If women are being seduced, it is not because everyone else has some hypnotic power that Sikhism doesn't. It is from a lack of awareness and respect for one's own culture and heritage. If these women are ignorant enought to accept rides from strangers, are they not thinking of the consequences that might arise? And when the intention of males without religious direction is to go out with females for sex, it is ultimately the female's choice to "hook up" with the male (not talking about rape here...for that, the community should just get together and give a good beatdown to the offender). I am surprised the moderators are allowing racism to become a part of this forum!!! Work on that, not ganging up on another race. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shasterkovich Posted December 7, 2003 Author Report Share Posted December 7, 2003 Ms514, You mentioned "African Americans" when referring to Britain. Let me tell you that blacks in Britain are predominantly not American and not African - they are West Indian with a cultural predication towards criminality. They are different from Africans. What's this nonsense about me owing my respectable job to the kaalay? You are obviously in the States, and have no idea about how things are in Britain. There is no post-slavery situation here. Over here, let me tell you that the far-right white supremacist political party the National Front had enormous sway over public opinion in the 1970s. It was a major political force, and whites would spit at Punjabi Sikhs when they saw them in the streets. That's part of the reason for why Southall (you ever been there?) exists. I will TELL you unequivocally that I owe my respectable job to no kaala. I have a university and post-graduate education. If I was a gora, I would be in the corridors of power right now. I suggest strongly that if you are in the USA, stay out of this discussion, because the situation here is different from over there. I will tell you yet more: not only was my father involved in the Southall riots (where the police wrote "NF" inside their riot vans and then got beaten up properly and deservedly) but my father's father was imprisoned by the British in the final years of the Raj, for inciting a riot in India. Don't you start lecturing me about owing ANYTHING to kaalay, OK. Do you know ANYTHING at all? About the Commonwealth Immigration Acts, Enoch Powell. "rivers of blood" and all of that? Are you from the States? If you are, you know nothing whatsoever, so stay out of this. I don't accept that my post was racist. If it was, provide reasons. Everything I wrote was and is true. Over here, we don't wear stars-and-stripes dastaars, my friend. And we don't let them sleep with our women just for a quiet life. We're not that pacified. We kick butt. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nihal_Kaur Posted December 7, 2003 Report Share Posted December 7, 2003 I've found that Sikh men over here (esp the amritdhari ones though it pains me to say it) are kind of wimpy and cowardly. :? I'm sorry but this is with my own eyes I see this, the guys turn into some pacifist wannabe saints, and give answers like "God will protect me when I do ardas" or "naam will get rid of my enemies" "naam will save me in the end" :roll: well excuse me, sorry to be blunt, but whats the point of you being a warrior if you cant live up to it? i dont mean silly petty arguments and fights between yourselves, but actually sticking up for girls, and their rights to not being touched up, shouted/leered at, trapped, cornered, and in extreme cases raped/attacked. :evil: Come on girls, get yourselves down to your nearest Savya Rakhsha Akharra, and not for rehat, or other sikhi controversial issues, (because he doesnt talk about them in his class) but for pure, effective SELF DEFENCE. If our Sikh men won't stick up for us, we'll sort the dodgers out for ourselves! :twisted: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr §ingh Posted December 7, 2003 Report Share Posted December 7, 2003 hmmmmm Nihal Kaur bhainji wasn't that the purpose of GUru ji giving ur Kirpan :? why rely on Men?...isn't that more like RAkhri again :roll: Yes I do agree...if men CAN protect them why not..but is this religion going to end up as sexist as other, claiming women can't defened themself and men must defend them...........thats Why Guru ji gave u Kirpan! we'll sort the dodgers out for ourselves! Learning to defen urself isn't a bad thing :? Or acctually its a Must ! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nihal_Kaur Posted December 7, 2003 Report Share Posted December 7, 2003 Mr Singh, i agree with you, women were blessed with kirpan. But everyone seems to say you have to be amritdhari to wear a kirpan. :roll: However kirpan is a last resort, its not if someone makes lewd and vulgar remarks and gets up too close, its if ur being attacked. :? However, thats where self defence comes in, our teacher says no one has the right to touch you anywhere and even in situations where someone would smack a girls bum, there are ways of making the person feel sorry without the use of a kirpan! :twisted: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr §ingh Posted December 7, 2003 Report Share Posted December 7, 2003 True bhainji..very true first u got to try all other means......when all other means fail it is righteos to take out the Kirpan :bow: No u ..defenetly dont have to be Amritshari to wear the Kirpan, as I meantioned in another post to you :? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nihal_Kaur Posted December 7, 2003 Report Share Posted December 7, 2003 to me? but its not me u have to convince mr singh. try an experiment, get a non amritdhari girl to wear a kirpan to the gurdwara one day, see what happens. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr §ingh Posted December 7, 2003 Report Share Posted December 7, 2003 I want to wear a Kirpan, but due to School obligations, this is impossible (I study in an American school) and majority, of the youth study .I bet they'd like to wear Kirpan BEFORE they do Amreit Shakna as well well then again ..it depends on who you ask as well Bhulla chukka maaf! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
vaapaaraa Posted December 7, 2003 Report Share Posted December 7, 2003 Waheguru Ji Ka Khalsa, Waheguru Ji Ki Fateh Shasterkovich : It was good reading about your history. Altho i m not sure of what type of kaalay you have there... most of the kaalay here are saintly Nihal Penji, Its good for you too learn some shaster vidya or some other martial art... altho i wouldnt advise you to use ur kirpan.. u harldy will ever need it I havent come across any such situations where sikh women are treated like that. All this posts come from the UK... Is it just UK or anywhere else too? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shasterkovich Posted December 7, 2003 Author Report Share Posted December 7, 2003 Khalsa, Things are very bad over here, because the majority of the kaalay are West Indians of Jamaican origin. The problem is, they tend to be either saints or outright villains - there's no grey area with them. Obviously the good ones are no trouble at all, but they do next to nothing to restrain the villains. That's the problem. Nihal Kaur, I do share some of your belief that in the UK the Sikhs are softer than we would like, but I can assure you that I'm not. I know someone who is daily harassed by a kaala, who makes sexual and inappropriate, very rude, comments towards her. The only thing is, she makes a show of laughing it off. As a woman, what would you say I should I do in this situation? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mugermach Singh Posted December 8, 2003 Report Share Posted December 8, 2003 I know someone who is daily harassed by a kaala, who makes sexual and inappropriate, very rude, comments towards her is that infront of you? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Javanmard Posted December 8, 2003 Report Share Posted December 8, 2003 Gurfateh fact is that if Sikh men in the UK had classical culture (both Western and Indian) , gentleman's manners and a high degree of understanding of womens' issues there would be no need for Panjabi girls to go out with Sunnis or Jamaican guys. Nihal Kaut is right about the fact that a lot of our men are either mone rudeboys or wimpy weak "amritdhari" who think that kirpan is just a symbol. Really sad to see many of our so-called "born again " munde going around with some gangsta rap attitude and unable to speak anything but their slang let alone having manners. Sad to see how our people are trying to either be gore or kale! Brothers: women want class, someone who understands them. Neither Rambo nor weakling: a real man who accepts his feminine self! Someone who is both strong and tender! As Nihal Kaur has rightly put it our "Gursikh" men are too busy looking for inner ennemies and when they're confronted with real danger they turn into victimised sheep: How ridiculous!!! Understand that and you'll see that our girls won't go for anyone else. Persist in gangsta ways or assimilation and... you know what I mean! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nihal_Kaur Posted December 8, 2003 Report Share Posted December 8, 2003 lalleshvari, you will not believe this, but the quote "naam will sort out my enemies" the guy was actually talking about physical enemies, i.e he had no need for training of any physical sort because naam was going to sort them out for him. He then went on to say that if people had naam God would destroy their enemies, and when I pressed him about women getting attacked, he didnt have an answer. Warriors I always believed were also there to protect the public, not just themselves! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Javanmard Posted December 8, 2003 Report Share Posted December 8, 2003 (I am joking now) Don't you know bhenji the SInghs of old did not need weapons all they had was nam drirh and their ennemies would be destroyed just like in the Matrix What a shame that our Panth has become a herd of sheep!!! What a shame!!! No wonder Sikh girls look outside their community!!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nihal_Kaur Posted December 8, 2003 Report Share Posted December 8, 2003 With all fairness Lalleshvari, gore and other races are hardly more warrior like.... :shock: :shock: in fact i would say the state of the world today is that even though the guys (even the so called warriors) are wimps, the other lot are not much better! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Javanmard Posted December 8, 2003 Report Share Posted December 8, 2003 All cultures believed in the ideal of the mystical knight. Christians had the Knight Templars, Sufis and SHias had the javanmards and ghazis and we SIkhs had the NIhangs. Western civilisation since the 17th century has created this separation of religion and politics so that pacific populations could be better manipulated and exploited by the rich and powerful. The Nihangs are the only surviving example of mystical chilvalry alas in a sad state of persecution and internal quarels. My question is: are we ready to take up this cahellenge of reviving this tradition and encourage other cultures to go back to their real roots of mystical chivalry? I believe in it, do you? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Infernal Monk Posted December 9, 2003 Report Share Posted December 9, 2003 Very interesting points lalleshvari. I honestly believe in the saying that history repeats itself, and while we have seen a decline in the chivalry and honor that most people possess, i feel it will come back again. You are right in saying that most chivalrous groups have virtually disappeared, like the samurai, but I don't think that exactly one way of life is correct. Human beings adapt to different time periods based on many things, and truth be told with the way society is in many western countries the need for a warrior class is not necessary, not at this time. I feel everything has its time and nothing is forever (historically speaking of course). So one day the world will enter another dark age, and society will rebuild again as it has previously (ie the Roman Empire). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Amrikingh Posted December 9, 2003 Report Share Posted December 9, 2003 there's no surprise there everyone looks and treat us as the Under Class ( attacking sikh women etc..), becoz sikhs are the only people that hold the truth enuff said fateh ji Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Niranjana Posted December 9, 2003 Report Share Posted December 9, 2003 Gur Fateh! Lalleshvari, you points on what you refer to a mystical chivalry are interesting and spot on, whilst not using such terms myself, I have always had issue with the 5K's and Sant-Saphai values being in my opinion "MIS"-translated and "MIS"-explained as being 'identity' issues...I'm sorry, but let's get real, in the Guru's times the Moghuls and in some instances the Rajputs too (although they mainly shaved their beards) looked indentical to Sikhs, hardly surprising when one considers these visual motifs (blue and kesri colours, beards, upturned moustaches, weapons, horses etc etc) to all have be adopted from these two ruling classes. I have always viewed the 5K's and such issues to be a case of 'nobility' in both temporal and spiritual ways....anyhow, I'm firing away from the topic at hand...so back to the issue of self defence and assualts, particularly on Sikh Women and children. Firstly, this is not a new thing, it's always happened...attack those who are the weakest, unfortunately though, as Nihal Kaur points out, these days Sikhs (male and females) are weak! During the Misl period, there are many sakhia of the likes of Jassa Singh Ahluwalia and Jassa Singh Ramgharia traing the women in their misls in the arts of close quarter combat (having recently seen some of these moves demonstrated, I cannot deny the similiarity in approach between these and the system of Wing Chun Gung Fu, which incidently was devised by a Female Warrior-Nun)... As per Sikhs today, this is a good topic that Shasterkovich has raised, with many implications as we see arising from the responses thus far. Reflecting on our history after Guru Gobind Singh's physical passing, certainly the above mentioned Misl period is very useful for gaining counter strategies when Sikh Women was prey to some quite vicious forms of sexual attacks and also that of the Naamdhari Period. Regardless of what present day Naamdharis may believe or practice, their contribution to the panth under the leadership of Baba Ram Singh was noteworthy and inspiring....so the strategies employed by Baba Ram Singh:- -Regular Chandi Path/Havans and Dasam Bani (compare with similar practices within other cultures too, through the use of daily reading and pratice of say Bushido texts et al) in addition to strict discipline of Naam and Nitnem rehit (and also prevervance of Gurmat Kirtan Maryada) -Regular Martial Drilling (kirpans were banned at the time, Baba Ram Singh, countered this through lathi-raksha drilling, i.e. being proactive and working with the situation, not over obsessed with showing 'robe' and flair) -Increased productivity of workforce, promoting enterprise and networking. -Actually Equality of Women by cutting at the root of the illness, through simplified weddings to avoid dowry stigmas et al, equal parchar, respect of feminity and heavy preaching against Kuri Mar. ...there is a lot more to this list, but let's consider these basic elements and see what difference they would make if reinvoked today and if needs be in more appropriate ways. Look forward to hearing from you... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Javanmard Posted December 9, 2003 Report Share Posted December 9, 2003 EXcellent, excellent Niranjana. Beautiful and intelligent comments! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Harmless Posted December 9, 2003 Report Share Posted December 9, 2003 First time I heard such stories about Kalle. Are u guys sure about this.. I am not convinced. I know Southall fairly well! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shasterkovich Posted December 9, 2003 Author Report Share Posted December 9, 2003 Harmless, I have known Southall (visited regularly - lived there briefly) for over 2 decades (I'm over 25). Let's go and hang out in a chaat house on the Broadway and watch the kaalay drive past leering and calling out. I know that a lot of people simply shut out things they don't want to see or hear, and they genuinely believe afterwards that these things don't exist. I suggest that that's exactly what you've done. If I was to show you things in Southall, it would be a non-stop commentary from you about how they may be loitering but they're not doing any harm, or its the girls' fault for looking at them in the first place, or the Punjabis are just as "bad", etc. If you can't hate bad things any more, and you struggle to find ways to accept them, what's the point of going on? Learn the art of hatred. Save the pain and hatred and focus it on one object: the bad guy(s). How on Earth can you have overlooked the massive explosion of Somali migrants settled in Southall in the last 10 years? Just how did you miss that exactly? If you did not miss it, what makes you think they have no interest in the young girls around them (Punjabi girls, since the vast majority of all the new "asylum" migrants are young men). These guys feel culturally entitled to take what they see (it's what they came for), and you're making a big mistake to assume they have no sex drive. Use your head, man. Address the problem of their number, and the fact that they do not cease to have any interest in sex just because they've come to England. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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