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WHY PEOPLE GO TO SAINTS!!!! ONLY GURU GRANTH JI......


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Vaheguru ji ka khalsa, vaheguru ji ki fatehhh

I really think people these days should't beleive in Saints!!!! its only Guru Granth ji....and noo one else!!!! well I think every1 haves diff point of veiw!!!

Vaheguru ji ka khalsa, vaheguru ji ki fatehhh

p.s bhul chuk maaf jee

:D

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In gurbani it says that are millions upon millions of incarnations of Vishnu (God) but finding one is hard. Not for us, as we have the Guru Granth Sahib ji. (all 3). This is our perfect and true Guru. This is the lord.

If some1 wishes to believe in a Sant it is up to them. But you need to attain a level in sikhi before you can realise who and who isnt a Sant.

I personally say that respect all, if they are known to be sants or not, but realise you dont need to travel far to see the true lord, Mahraj Guru Granth Sahib (All 3) is always Next to us and in us.

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i may be a bit mistaken on what ur meaning by saints.... the saints im talkin about are people who do parchar and try to spread the word of the granth

well there is nothin wrong with sants - they are spreadin the word of waheguru - not their own

u look at people like sant isher singh and sant jarnail singh bhindrawale - and sant baba maan singh - they have created sooooooooooo many amrit dhari sikhs by spreadin the word of waheguru

u say that people should look in the SGGS to find waheguru - but non amrit dharis are not allowed to read it - they are allowed to read senchiya - but how many people actually have senchiya to read? hardly any - most of the time u will need more then just goin to the gurdwara and mutha tehk to actually have that one thing inside u spark so u can learn about god - and the sikh way of life

i agree soem people do take following sants a bit too much - like touching their feet n stuff - but this takes away the whole logic that everyone is equal - u see sants they say "behnti karkey - usi guru nahi - sadey pehr nah shereyo karo" but people still try it!!!... which is where this whole meaning of worshippin sants goes

anyways - in my opinion - TRUE sants - who are there to make people take amrit - and create as much khalsa as they can is allllll gooood!!...

i think the other sants which make people follow them - make poeple think they are gurus - and r in there for monatary gains - they need jutiya :) lol :P

like sant baba maan singh says - "its hard to be a sikh nowadays - its easier to become a sant - all u need is a white paag and white chadar and u can get people to follow u" :? :?

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Vaheguru ji ka khalsa, vaheguru ji ki fatehhh

I really think people these days should't beleive in Saints!!!! its only Guru Granth ji....and noo one else!!!! well I think every1 haves diff point of veiw!!!

Vaheguru ji ka khalsa, vaheguru ji ki fatehhh

p.s bhul chuk maaf jee

:D

Off coz its only guru granth sahib ji.. but whos goin to show you the way from guru granth sahib ji???

without saints there sikh is tasteless...thtas what i say :D ... gurbani is praising saints loads of time.. in sikhi we do beleive in ssaints... guru ji himself praised em.. who were?? bhagat kabir, baba farid, bhagat ravidass, bhai mardana??? were they not saints in gurus time?? they have acheived salvation...

you are sort of makin a notion that you can gain salvation alone with guru granth sahib ji... cmon no matter how hardcore you are... you do rely on other gursikhs, scholars and saints to help you through it... :D

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vaheguroooooooooo

well I dont think BAD OF SAINTS!!!! well there is nothin wrong with sants………….

ALL I WAS SAYING THAT WHY GOO UP TOO THEM AND STARTED touching there felt and stuff...u know i agree some people do take following sants a bit too much.......but after all thats is up too them....If some1 wishes to believe in a Sant it is up to them........WELL I THINK U SHOULD ONLY BELIEVE IN Guru granth Sahib ji.......AND THATS IT....NOTHING ELSE......

I mean if u have any questions about anything...i mean anything........u should talk to Guru ji and i am 100% SURE that Guru ji will tell u.....

I am talking about when ppl stated going too Saints saying.....my business not going that good.....can u pls help me....!!!! I mean why don't u just goo to Gurdwara Sahib and ask Guru ji........AND I AM SURE GURU JI WILL HELP U! THE MORE PATH U DOOO AND NAM SIRMAN U DOOO MORE THINGS WILL GOO GOOD IN UR LIFE.....

bhul chuk maaf jee, IF I AM MAKING SOME UPSET!!!!

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Guest kaur1699

Vaheguru ji ka khalsa, vaheguru ji ki fatehhh

I really think people these days should't beleive in Saints!!!! its only Guru Granth ji....and noo one else!!!! well I think every1 haves diff point of veiw!!!

Vaheguru ji ka khalsa, vaheguru ji ki fatehhh

p.s bhul chuk maaf jee

:D

I agree that Guru Sahib is the all in SIkhi... but Saints are important... they can be the ones to show the way...

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People should have faith/believe in Sants, even our Guru's did!

"Nanak Das ehe sukh mange, moko Santan ki dhoor......"

Even Guru Nanak Dev ji - Shows humbleness and does behnty to Akaal purukh Waheguru Ji to be blessed with the doing Darshan of a Holy saint (This is my enterpritation of this quote, Please correct me if I am wrong, My knowledge of Bani is minimal - 4give me)

Also Maharaj also says:

" Brahm Giani aap permesar "

sants and Mahpurshes are in the roop of God himself

Although I have to agree that we need to have more faith in mahraj.

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If ppl confude the message with the messenger then there is a problem.

Believe the message if it speaks to u but belief IN a particular person and expecting them to be ur intermidiary to God is wrong.

I dunno i havent seen an y so called "saints" let anybody touch ther feet or anything if I saw a "saint" allowing ppl to do that then yes i woul;d have issue with it.

Respect them for the knowledge they have and the knowledge they impart and the message they give - but like i said at the top - its all about the message not the messenger/interpreter.

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I dont agree with ur comment veer..

Messenger of the guru is the highest so we must respect em...

The goal of human life is to break the cycle of birth's and deaths and merge with God. This can be accomplished by following the teachings of the Guru, meditation on the Holy Name and performance of acts of service and charity.

http://www.sikhs.org/philos.htm

When Ram Das Tapaa came to the Guru he asked how the Sikhs would go to heaven. The Guru replied, "My Sikhs desire not heaven. Heaven they deem not fit for their merits. They never engage in worship which is merely intended for the admiration of the public. Their minds are absorbed in God's love. That is their heaven and salvation." (Sikh religion by M.A.Macaliffe vol. 2 page 261).

I do not seek power, and I do not seek salvation.. My mind is in love with Your Lotus Feet.

Guru Granth Sahib Page 534

Don't wish for a home in heaven, and don't be afraid to live in hell.

Guru Granth Sahib Page 337

If their mind is in love with the gurus lotus feet then i dont see anything wrong with touchin their feet....because they are egoless.. they start with two but end in one... they are the ones who can guide us through guru granth sahib ji

Also if you think its wrong to bow down because we only bow down to guru granth sahib ji .... thats is defo right.. however there is a difference between bowing down...normall infront of saints people dont matta taiek like they do infront of guru granth sahib ji but they just touch their feet with their hands but NOT NOSE... soo here is the little difference too..

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Gurfateh

The Sadh-Sangat, where people truly concentrate upon Vaahiguru, sing The Praises and ponder their Guru's teachings is full of 'Sants' if we must use the word. When we pick individuals out and address them as Sant Ji or Maha Purakh etc. we are not focusing enough upon Guru who leads to Vaahiguru.

The likes of great individuals such as Baba Nand Singh, Bhai Randheer Singh, Baba Attar Singh etc. would never hanker after such titles - so lets not go against their wishes.

The Radha Soamis, Nirankaris et al have all capitalised upon this fixation that many 'sikhs' have with worshipping/following spiritually advanced people...not to mention that theres always the chance of imposters.

The dust Guru Nanak Sahib Ji wishes for is not from a self-proclaimed Sant but from someone who is truly a member of The Sangat...Sadh Sangat...The Gathering of Saints. Notice something - its a collective.

Hence 10th Nanak created:

Guru Granth - Spiritual

Guru Panth - Physical

Imagine what it does to a spiritually-advanced soul when someone calls her/him a Sant...the guilt they'd feel is unimaginable...

Now, what if that person is an imposter or someone who starts believing everything they hear...what happens to them then?

Forgive this fool if he has caused offence.

Gurfateh

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Jagroop singh one question to you

what is the meaning the sant???

accordin to guru granth sahib ji.. sant=mahapursh-bhramgyani=nirankar

so why is it not good to label the baba as sants??? they dont claim.. but people like to show more respect.. as far as you goin to bring the argument there are loads fake ones.. i agree.. but isnt for individual to decide the baba is fake or not??? .....we alll know some baba claim himself as sant.. he is fake...

but this mahapursh dont claim it or they dont need popularity or addiction of maya.. they are addicted with vaheguroo's naam... so i gueess they deserved the tittle "sant" ..and also look at sukhmani sahib.. its full of joinin the company of saints, bhramgyanis and mahapursh...watever you wish to call em..

personally for myself.. in the spirtual journey it has to be between you and ur teacher and MAHAN GURU GRANTH SAHIB JI.... you can do it alone one on one journey and acheive salvation.. you gotta have faith in ur teacher and obviously faith in guru granth sahib .. i mean pure faith .. so that they can show you the way....

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Gurfateh

veer N30 Singh ji i agree with your points...thanks for sharing them :-)

however i would like to approach one subtle issue that is:

:: Regardless of the Guru's definition of sant, should we call spiritually-advanced humans sant or not?

shaheed bhai taru singh was not called sant, shaheed bhai mani singh was not called sant, shaheed baba deep singh was not called sant, baba buddha was not called sant, shaheed baba banda singh bahadur was not called sant, bhai gurdas was not called sant, bhai nand lal goya was not called sant, bhai kannaiya was not called sant, bibi bhago kaur was not called sant...and so the list goes on and on, as a veritable who's who in our Great Sikh History.

there's an important inference here; throughout Sikh history, it seems that no member of the Guru's Sangat was singled out and adorned with the sant title, regardless of their level of sacrifice and pyar for the Guru...why is this? also, why is there a serious deficit between the no. of male and female sants today...why is this?

come the very late 19th>20th century, santdom springs-up everywhere with many male self-proclaimers. the question is, were there 'elements' who wanted to create an abundance of sants to decisively split-up the panth and to induce a human-human relationship? and would these elements benefit from this.

did governments such as the indira gandhi administration support the likes of the nirankaris and their human 'guru'? why does it seem like the radhasoamis (whose 'guru' keeps kesh and kara but tells his followers they don't have to) are helped in many ways by the indian govt. of today with various concessions etc.?

i don't know the answer to all these questions, but i think these questions raise some very pertinent points which should perhaps lead to some serious introspection...

you're absolutely right; i'm 100% sure that shining Gurmukhs like baba nand singh, baba attar singh and bhai randheer singh did not hanker after the title (in fact from what i know, they proactively rejected it and pointed towards Guru Ji as the True Sant).

the sad thing is that sects such as naamdharis, nanaksaaris spring up regardless of the fact that their so called 'Leaders' were such great souls, who predicted what would happen and did all they could whilst in their human form to ensure that this redirection away from the Guru would not take place.

i read somewhere that one of the members of Guru's Sangat asked baba nand singh: 'who will sit upon your gaddi when you leave us'. i feel that his reply was the reply of a noble and dedicated GurSikh:

"I received no gaddi and so will not pass it on; the gaddi belongs to Guru Granth Sahib Ji"

(that gives me a lump in my throat just thinking about it)

if we feel like praising or dispraising someone, let it slowly diminish and soak-away within our heart...hold your poison or your blessing - do not fame or defame / praise or dispraise. only Guru and Vaahiguru deserve our praise...

we are all the dogs of the slaves of the slaves of their slaves. lets hope that by truly manifesting this attitude, we can help through Guru's Kirpa to indirectly cultivate it within others. lets's pray that the Nimarata we beg for continuously will be graced upon us and them.

may i humbly say that if a member of the Guru's Sangat is spiritually advanced, we should try to learn from them but in no way should we jeapordise the Kirpa bestowed upon them and us by Guru Ji, and haplessly expose them to honorific titles, praise etc...especially so when they are alive. let's remember the true democratic nature of The Sangat concept our Guru's blessed upon us...

can i leave you with something shaheed bhai fauja singh once wrote. it is in response to one of the many 3HO sikhs who visited during the 70's and with whom he maintained correspondence. he wrote them the sweetest and most insightful letters. it seems that in one particular letter he received from them, s/he (american sikh) asked paaji if the people around him were suffciently 'organised':

"May I humbly inform you that God is very much fed-up with the Gurudom personality-cult systems. He requires direct, continuous and affectionate prayers..."

this is an interesting response, no matter how we interpret it.

i'd like to make this my last response on this issue (lest my ego decides it wants to start trying to prove anyone wrong), and would like to say to all those who replied, thank you for being a really insightful Sangat.

Gurfateh

One Guru Granth / One Guru Panth

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  • 2 weeks later...

I dont think that this debate cant ever be solved because there are those that believe in sants and there are those that who dont, but definitely there are some that do nindhiaa of sants and that is wrong. In sukhmani sahib Guru ji talks about what happens to ppl who do nindhiaa of sants. This is a personal thing and every individual here is free do as they choose. At the end of the day, whether you choose to believe or not believe in sants, everyone came alone into the world and are going to go alone from it.

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Waheguru Ji ka Khalsa Waheguru ji ke Fateh

I believe that Sants are needed in this day and age and have always been needed to spread the knowledge they have gained through the Guru Granth Sahib, which to many is inaccessible.

Also, many are saying we should not touch their feet etc... but what about when you touch elders feets to show respect is this not the same thing? You are giving praise to them that they are spiritually gifted and blessed to have obtained such knowledge of waheguru and that all their lives revolve around Sikhi purely. Is this not a difficult thing to do!

Bhul juk ke maf karo my fellow brothers n sisters.

Waheguru ji ka Khalsa waheguru ji ke fateh

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  • 2 weeks later...

Waheguru ji ka khalsa Waheguru ji ki fateh

Saints? who is a saint ? the answer is quite simple and in your face on Panna 203 of Guru Granth Sahib. The saints are Guru Sahib and any other Avtar that Akaal purkah je sahai put on this maya filled sansar. Should we follow saints? only if we are calling guru sahib a saint then of course we should as we should follow nothing else. Tell me one thing out of all these so called saint how many of them are a true example of Guru Gobinds singhs? answer.....NONE of them. I say this from experience i used to and still am very close with some "sants" or "mahapurakh" but not ONE of them could tel you anything about maryada, about 96 crore chalda vaheer none of them know what the panj shaster are let alone you supposed to keep them on you at all times and trust me none of them are in the condition to use any of them. The thing that is wrong with sikhi is that we have no trust in guru sahib. The whole panth needs to stop being catholics acting like singhs and study sikhi for what it REALLY is wearing white and saying " bolo satnam sri waheguru jee" every 5 seconds aint getin you knowhere. Remember all Guru Gobind Singh made his khalsa the most powerfull, unrelenting, savage, vicous, spiritual and accepting people in the world.

AAAKKKAAALLLLLLLLLLLLL ! ! ! ! !GGUUURRRBBAARRR AAKKKAALLL! !

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vaheguroooooooooo

ALL I WAS SAYING THAT WHY GOO UP TOO THEM AND STARTED touching there felt and stuff...u know i agree some people do take following sants a bit too much!!!!

Bhagat Namdev touched and bowed to the feet of a dog and when Bhagat Namdev died he wisehd to be burried in the temple door so that everyone could put his feet on his samadhi and bless him.

Those Gursiksh who take pride in turning to the dust of the feet of saints find GOD.

Touching the feet has two meaning ! You should touch the feet of people out of respect, out of age, out of humility and u should touch there feet becoz God is in them.

It is a matter of attitude with which poeple touch the feet.

see look you should touch the feet of True Saint and not that of a human being.

you should touch the feet of a person in whom God and offer homage to God and not the feet of the person and bow down to maya, illusion and human beings.

you should depend on God and not on anyone else. Knowing God is inside everyone u automatically have atendency to fall at everyones feet, but that doesnt mean that you are touching the feet of flana flana "guy" or "person" or "human being". Your bowing to the God within them.

ofcourse you should not touch the feet of some fake saint.

Even Guru Nanak did Namaste to Guru Angad.

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  • 1 month later...

we need to recognize that in the end, everything is Guru Nanak's vadiaaee -- it's NEVER the greatness of an individual purpose -- all of ACTUAL, genuine sants were given kirpa from Guru Jee, and it's all his greatness, it has nothin to do with the person themselves.. If the person is making you praise Guru Jee/God more, it's GURU JEE's kirpa, not the Sant's kirpa

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  • 11 months later...

Vaheguru je ka khalsa, Vaheguru je ke fateh!!

bani calls i think bhagat namdev a sant

are u gonna say guru is wrong too??

in bani, there are soooo many places where guru je keeps on praising the SADHsangat and the SANTS and BRAHMGIANIS

of course worship guru je, but wats the point if u aint listening??

guru je says go to the sadhsangat

learn from them

in their sangat u will jaap naam and be nearer to guru je

MATHA TEKING TO ANYONE BUT GURU JE IS FORBIDDEN

sant jarnail singh je khalsa bhindranwale says

do not bow ure heads to anyone but guru granth sahib je, no matter how big of a sant or sadhu they may be

it is at gurmat veechar, under katha, sant jarnial singh je talks about dehdhari baba and i suggest everyone shud listen to wat a sant maahapursh has to say

be careful

remeber, guru je is always our guru and more important than anyone else

sant baba nand singh je has said that guru granth sahib is guru nanak dev je

there is no difference

its the one jot through all our gurus

sants jaap naam

but that naam belongs to guru je

he gave them that naam

so guru je and is the highest of all

but sants are also wonderful and great, there at the same level, but there still the servants of guru je

bhula chuka maf

Vaheguru je ka khalsa, Vaheguru je ke fateh!!

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  • 2 weeks later...

do not bow ure heads to anyone but guru granth sahib je, no matter how big of a sant or sadhu they may be

it is at gurmat veechar, under katha, sant jarnial singh je talks about dehdhari baba and i suggest everyone shud listen to wat a sant maahapursh has to say

be careful

remeber, guru je is always our guru and more important than anyone else

Khalistani veer ji,

I heard that tape. He said dont bow to the sant but thing I couldnt understand. I m trying to determine his intention for his saying...may be because it was topic of dehdhari guru's.

Sant ji himself was a mukh seevadar(student) of sant baba kartar singh ji Please try to find out his dedication towards his teacher from old taksali singhs....usually this kinda things are kept gupt within seevadars so thats why sants/mahapursh dont talk about it.

There are two things: Bowing down in front of sant/mahapursh and Matha-TaikhNa. None can done in siri guroo granth sahib ji maharaj (as Hakumnama was declared by Akaal Takht Sahib) but where co-orpeal being of siri guroo granth sahib is not present. Both of things can be done according to one sharda and No, they are anti-gurmat or Man-Matt.

I would personally bow down to any sant/mahapursh but I would only matha taik Siri Guroo Granth Sahib Ji and equally to my teacher(murshad/bhramgyani) only because he will take me to meet with Guru Nanak Dev Nirankar because he has met Guru Nanak Dev Nirankar.

There is a sakhi and gurbani tuk when Bhagat Kabir Ji met Vahiguroo in Sargun saroop of Vahiguroo. At the time of union, he bow down to his teacher(murshad) first even though vahiguroo(sargun form) was present. He did it because his teacher was the one who helped him to meet Vahiguroo(sargun saroop). That was his teacher kirpa on him that made him meet Vahiguroo.

We are not in that stage to see mahanta of sant/mahapursh/bhramgyani so we get confused if we should bow down or not. We get confused of deh(body) And that Confustion lead our mind go astray and doesnt let us to look further than deh which is Jiv-Atma. Jiv-atma of bhramgyani has merged with Nirankar and become one. There is no difference nirankar and bhramgyani. End of story!

As sukhmani Sahib states:

Bhramgyani Aaap Nirankar||

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excellent post by neo ji .

When Sant Jarnail Singh ji were saying not to bow before anyone he was referring to dehdhari babae like nirankaris , namdharis etc . who had started their own gurgaddis .

It is the bachan of Baba nand singh ji that you should do sangat of those mahapurakhs who connect you with guru ji but stay away from those who connect you with themselves in order to make more money like nadharis , nirankaris or narakdhari , radha soami , satsang beas dera , dhesiaan etc .

u should eware from these dehdhari babae . they r fake .

but tere is nothing wrong in bowing to pooran sants like baba ishar singh ji , baba nand singh ji , etc ,

gurabani also emphasize on doind sangat of sadhus and mahapurakhs.

sad sand bhaj kewal naam

sad ka sang mukh oojal hot

sad kae sang bhuje prabh nera

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Vaheguru je ka khalsa, Vaheguru je ke fateh

veer jes

sant je clearly said that and this is exact

no matter how big of a sadhu or sant they are do not matha tek to them

no matter how big they are

taksal is very against this

sants jaap naam

but its guru jes in the first place

bhula chuka maf

Vaheguru je ka khalsa, Vaheguru je ke fateh

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