ms514 Posted January 11, 2004 Report Share Posted January 11, 2004 Sat Sri Akal: One who calls the human identity of Guru Sahiban the Almighty is the one who will burn in hell. The other property of the BarhmGyani is that they exterminate the I. Their persona has dissolved, and what is left it the Divine Light of the Almighty. Hope it clarifies. If it confuses further...please delete the above post from your brain, site in the cold for a few hours and run a mile around town. :mrgreen: 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
amandeepm Posted January 19, 2004 Report Share Posted January 19, 2004 This 'eyewitness' account does not exist at Aligarh University. In fact it doesnt exist at all. Its a myth and always has been, its been a convinient vehicle used by parcharaks, gianis and Sants to push one agenda or another under the guise of soem kind of historical legitimacy. If you want to push some kind of view of what happened then you can make your argument even more powerful by claiming that an actual eyewitness to history was there and support your view. And, on the basis that Sikhs never check facts and rarely go to authoratative sources of history then you can convinently hide behind a mysterious document at some dusty, far away university archives. About three years ago JS Grewal edited a volume titled Sikh History from Persian Sources which contains virtaully all the fragments of Sikh histiry written in Persian from Aligarh University. The translators and co editors included some of the university's most senior academics on the Islamic history of India. Unsurprisingly this document does not figure amongst their researches simplyu because it does not (and never has) existed. It is worthwhile getting hold of Grewals book though. Aman 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted January 19, 2004 Report Share Posted January 19, 2004 If you think, you cant trust sants/mahapursh/bhramgyani. What makes you think we will trust or beleif in some self-proclaimed scholar who wants a medal for dinner... :twisted: :twisted: :twisted: 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Javanmard Posted January 19, 2004 Report Share Posted January 19, 2004 JS Grewal is not some "self proclaimed scholar" but a professional historian specialised in Mughal history. He studied and did his PhD in London and is head of Guru Nanak Dev university's history department. He is an expert on Persian historical acounts and not some amateur scholar. The acount which I have been lokking for myself does not exist. This does not mean that the story is not part of oral tradition. Even if this did not happen historically it still represents in a Corbin or Eliade perspective a very powerful narrative. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted January 19, 2004 Report Share Posted January 19, 2004 So, above post taken from "Urdu Phamplet" is wrong??? From what i know during the gathering in 1699, There were arunzeb spies there too at the gathering. They have explained of this event happening and they explained that guroo maharaj did jhatka of 5 sikhs. Also on a side note: Just because this encounter is not in persian historical accounts that does not mean it didnt exist" 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Javanmard Posted January 19, 2004 Report Share Posted January 19, 2004 I am not saying it did not happen. I am just saying that there is no such document found at Aligarh university. Maybe it was never written down, maybe it's lost. Sure is that tradition exists for sure in the NIhang sampradaya. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
amandeepm Posted January 19, 2004 Report Share Posted January 19, 2004 Dear N30 Oral tradtions and belief are perfectly legitimate views to hold, and its perfectly legitimate to follow a belief based on someone that you wholeheartedly trust - nothing at all wrong in that. All I am pointing out is that the document under question does not exist so you shoudnt rely on it. Furthermore you should remain suspicious of any "evidence" until you know absolutely that it exists. As Sikhs we are extremely prone to falling for hoaxes and hearsay without checking the facts. I recall back in the early days of the Khalsa Net (1992ish) there was a series of hoax travelogues that recounted horrendous stories of the treatment of Sikh travellers to Punjab at teh hands of virtaully every Indian that crossed their path. as a frequest traveller to india at the time and a Sikh these were not the experiences that I ever had. But reading between the lines it was quite clear that these were simply part of a wider campaign of driving division between Sikhs and Hindus in Punjab. More recently some of the stories of Sikh abduction & conversion by Muslims are decidely dodgy as has bene pointed out on this site and others. I woudl simoky urge caution. Amandeep 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Javanmard Posted January 19, 2004 Report Share Posted January 19, 2004 very wise words dear Amandeep, very wise words! It's about time SIkhs start using their brain rather than just believing every single "miraculous" deed to be true! 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted January 19, 2004 Report Share Posted January 19, 2004 AmaddeepPM wrote All I am pointing out is that the document under question does not exist so you shoudnt rely on it. Furthermore you should remain suspicious of any "evidence" until you know absolutely that it exists. As Sikhs we are extremely prone to falling for hoaxes and hearsay without checking the facts. Excellent points. Word of wisdom. :thumbsup: 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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