A lot of new sites around at the moment.....be aware!!!!!

[Narsingha]

Sri Akaal Ji Sahai

It seems you wish to continue going around in circles discrediting the website, and then not providing any evidence to counteract what has been said on the website. Blaming GOI propaganda for anything that does not appeal to your particular blend of Sikhi does not do you any credit. If you consider the websites as GOI propaganda, please provide evidence.

Apologies but I am sure there are better ways you can entertain yourself.

Once again, if you consider what has been said on the websites as incorrect or anti-Sikh, then, please do everyone the courtesy of providing a dicussion that is backed up with scripture and/or historical references.

With regard to powers that are against the Sikh Nation, one may ask, WHICH Sikh nation are you referring to? Considering that since the arrival of the British, so many personality cults and self-proclaimed saints and factions have arisen, which do you consider to be true to the Guru's words? Every group seems to vary in what they believe (ie, rehits) and none can agree as to what is true. In the case of the AKJ, they claim to agree with the Akaal Takht (hence the Akal takht insignia on their websites) yet they do not agree with meat, Raagmala or keski.

With such confusion amongst modern mainstream Sikhi, is it any wonder that the youth are also in disarray and argue over aspects such as meat, hair, where to take amrit, whether to take amrit, etc etc.

To fight for a side, you must know what side you are on.

Akaal hee Akaal

(NB: Pls note the word EVIDENCE....something your arguements against the websites seem to lack)

[Guest inderjit]

sometimes one wonders if theres just a parrot trained to replies to people's posts!

a few quick questions to the guru ki ladli fauj, the keepers of the truth, the warriors of guru gobind singhetc etc.

IF you nihangs claim to hold the truth in terms of both snataan sikhi and shastarvidiya, then im guessing you would see yourselves as the dearest and nearest to the guru. since the rest of us have been brainwashed by the british and are now just mere shadows of the once great sikhs (apparently..you guys).

well in that case, if and when somebody was to disrespect the guru , then shouldnt you be the onces to step up?? firstly on account of u being the ladli fauja and secondly you being the warriors of the 4 original groups created by the gurus and the only true khalseh left.

shouldnt it be the nihangs waging the wars and fighting against the disrespect shown to guru ji? rather than the "terrorists" and "extremists and fundamentalists" like the AKJ and other groups?

yeh yeh i know your gonna say theres gonna be a website out soon blah blah blah, but oh mr nihang singh sir i cant wait that long plssss do enlighten me know!

when the nakli nirankari's were throwing insults to the guru's and bebe nanaki etc, what did the nihangs do? when gurbachana put his foot on guru ji da saroop, what did you do? were was the fauj? the "extremists" from taksal and the akj where there... but where were the khalsa??

im sure you guys were busy doing other things at the time, but then why afterwards when the dead were dead and the court case was thrown out.. why didnt the defenders of the sikh panth do something then? please tell me what your boys were doing? i honestly dont know!

and answer my questions dont just point me to your unopened website.

and then during the morcha... where were the majority of the nihangs? in particular the budha dal?

from my understanding.. in order for nihangs to carry arms in india they need to get A LICENSE!!! from the govt!

so you have to go running to the indian govt to ask them if they will allow you to carry arms? this is not just arms such as guns is it.. its even spears etc.

well well the soldiers of the guru now have to beg permission to wear their shastar. WELL in the morcha headed by sant jarnail singh ji, one of the fundamental things was for sikhs to carry shastar. and to be shastardhari. the aim was to get rid of the license deal, as a minimum a sikh should be allowed to carry a certain type of pistol etc. the khalsa is opressed by the govt, otherwise why can we not carry what we wish as instructed by the guru? what did you do to help?

then in recent years you had that piara panyara guy whose followers set fire to around 10 guru ji's saroop.... what did you do then????

if the harmandir sahib was occupied by "extremists" and you didnt want to get involved (aww poor little babies) then what about in the streets of delhi..?

what did the nihangs do there? some singh mentioned that if we all knew shatarvidiya then so many would not have died... bro wake up, yeh maybe a few would have done enough to escape, but when people come at you in mobs of 200 armed with iron rods kerosene and guns! wat u gonna do? what did the shastarvidiya knowledge holders do?

again maybe your boys werent there. what did they do afterwards? ok maybe you guys dont believe in fighting, well what did you contribute towards seeking justice? anything? nothing?

it seems that when it comes to the crunch it is only the brainwashed british influenced extremist sikhs who actually have the courage to do anything! its all well and good looking nice and pretty but when the poo poo hits the fan, thats when you see who's who and whats what.

ok now your gonna operate your parrot and say gimme proof gimme proof gimme gimme gimme!

iv asked the questions. my proof is that i have not heard or read or studied any major conribution made by your nihangs. you prove me and the things iv heard and read wrong.

and ps, when is the last time the nihangs actually fought for anything?

as in a real battle?

pps, as a practioner of shastarvidiya and as a sikh, have you ever used the vidiya? or actually gotten into a fight where you've had to defend yourself or anybody else? has there been a situation where you could/should have defended youself or someone else but instead you walked away? in fact have you ever been in a fight full stop? has anybody actually experienced shastarvidiya in practice? im not questioning the art just asking has it been tried in this country by its students?

i know that sounds weird but just asking out of curiosity.

ppps DONT just say "a new site will soon be released.... " im sure it will be but iv asked te questions now, so please be so kind as to answer them.

[panjabi]

i dont know the answer to any of indys question exept one.. asking if anyones experienced it seen it etc.. ive seen it work, had it practiced on me and it is deadly, i cant comment on anyone elses ghatka nor can i knock any other martial arts of compare, but its deadly and does end with death blows (if used for real n not in practice) as the owner says. im sayin this without bein on any side.. about the jujaaroos we r sittin in uk how can we comment who took part in struggles in a thirld world country like india?? there mite have been nihungs in des movements in bakgrounds , maybe not we dont know we cant say for definate and also i thought nanaksar people didnt take part in defence in the indra ghandi pogroms simply cos i didnt hear about it, den i was told they did by a reliable source defending a gurughar like 5 against 300 rioters..whether that happened or not god knos, we r here but den we shudnt be knocking each other shud we?

no ones better no ones ever gonna be better.. nihungs taksaal akj exist for a reason its gods will ders nothing we can do about it..each one have a bright history, look outside ur window we got more shtyte to worry about, our youth goin away, girls runnin off wid members of other religions, etc etc, why dont we combine our efforts and resolve to sort the mess out we face?? can that energy bein expanded on issues like these be rdirected to sort the external mess out we face??

meat sukha etc thats nex mans belief u cant do nuffin about it, if u believe naam helps u aleviate all pains ( which i do too) thats all gud but whatever else someone else does they will give their account in nex world like u yours..

to those who think its precisely these schools of thoughts or diffs that make the mess, but then these have existed throughout time, ie taksaaal have a history upto guru sahib, den so do nihungs, so do nanaksar upto nirmalas. Guru gobind singh didnt just bless the khalsa in 1699 hes blessed hindus and muslims 2 so what to say of these diff schools of thought?.

[Narsingha]

Inderjit, thank you for such an enlightening post.

As you state: "If you nihangs claim to hold the truth in terms of both snataan sikhi and shastarvidiya, then im guessing you would see yourselves as the dearest and nearest to the guru. since the rest of us have been brainwashed by the british and are now just mere shadows of the once great sikhs (apparently..you guys). "

What has been presented on the websites is backed up with scriptures and historical texts (how many times does this have to be mentioned??)

You state that we claim that we hold the truth with regards to Sanatan Sikhi and Shastar Vidiya, yet, you fail to realise that Maryada, ie, knowledge, is above any individual and is not the property of any one person. As Akali Nihang Guru Gobind Singh ji stated, "Rehit pyaari mujkoh, Sikh pyaari nahi". The great Guru stated this, despite being a Sikh himself. If a Sikh is not worthy of practicing any art, be it gurmat sangeet, santhia, or shastar vidiya, then, as Paindeh Khan (friend of Akali Guru Hargobind Sahib) proved, it will seek anyone, regardless of creed, caste, religion, etc.

Why would we issue a challange to the Gatka practitioners and invite debate from people? The aim is to DISCOVER where the truth lies, and what it is.

If mainstream Sikhism and Gatka is the truth as they claim, then, we ask these people to challange what has been said on the websites with clear objective evidence from historical texts and scriptures ot to accept Nihang Niddar Singh's Hadh Torh Challange.

True knowledge will withstand any onslaught by anyone. If you or others consider Sanatan Sikh ideology or Shastar Vidiya as weak or untrutful, or anti-Sikh, etc etc., then, step up and back-up what you say with clear objective evidence, or indeed accept the Hadh Torh challange.

Why would modern Sikhs fear the RSS, for example if they claim their Sikhi to be the Truth? Akali Guru Nanak Dev Ji in Mool Mantra states that the eternal truth has existed, does exist, and will continue to exist. So, if mainstream Sikhi is the truth, then, why do they fear groups such as RSS and the "Hindu" world to such a greta degree? Insecurity?

As yet, all we see is emotional outbursts, insults, baseless personal opinions and individuals beating their chests about where the Nihang Singhs were during 1984. You can continue bringing up 1984, but as stated earlier, this will be addressed on www.nihang.com.

Sarbloh.info deals with Shaant Ras (essence of peace), and Shastarvidiya.org deals with Bir Ras (warrior essence). The politics, which in themselves are a large topic of debate will be dealt with on www.nihang.com.

If you cannot even refute what has been stated on shastarvidiya.org or sarbloh.info with any substantial evidence, why open another can of worms? At least stick to the topic at hand.

Finally, there is no use asking me personal questions, or directing the debate to me as an individual as this has no bearing on the discussions. Your attempt at making this debate into some emotional rollercoaster will not divert anyone who seeks the Truth from the fact that you, and others like you, have not been able to refute what has been said on the websites with any evidence.

I could be a hindu, or muslim, buddhist, or an Eskimo...would that change the fact that you have still not been able to back up anything you state with any evidence?

It is truly a sad state of affairs when so-called Sikhs cannot stick to being objective and logical and using Gurbani and History as a guide, but prefer to persue the avenue of Manmat in order to appease their ego.

Any student (unviersity/college/school) is taught that what they say should always be backed up with evidence (literary or practical), logic, science, or experience, otherwise their comment is dubious. If they do not find what they seek, then they carry out a study to prove something is true on untrue.

Why should debating Sikhi be any different? Indeed, the Gurus and the great sikh (and other) historians have provided us with an addition of Gurbani and History which makes it even easier...so please use it.

[Panth Ki Jeet]

It is truly a sad state of affairs when so-called Sikhs cannot stick to being objective and logical and using Gurbani and History as a guide, but prefer to persue the avenue of Manmat in order to appease their ego.

Any student (unviersity/college/school) is taught that what they say should always be backed up with evidence (literary or practical), logic, science, or experience, otherwise their comment is dubious. If they do not find what they seek, then they carry out a study to prove something is true on untrue.

Why should debating Sikhi be any different? Indeed, the Gurus and the great sikh (and other) historians have provided us with an addition of Gurbani and History which makes it even easier...so please use it.

waheguru ji ka khalsa / waheguru ji ki fateh

narsingha what do you say about these following quotes from shri guru granth sahib ji, id like to hear your views upon them

Jee Badhoh So Dharam Kar ThaapohAdharam Kaho Kat Bhai.

Aapas Ko Munwar Kar Thaapoh, Kaa Ko Kaho Kasaaee. (pg. 1103)

Bed Kateb Kaho Mat Jhoothhay, Jhoothhaa Jo Na Bichaarey.

Jo Sabh Meh Ek Khudal Kahat Ho,To Kio Murghi Maarey. (pg. 1350)

Rojaa Dharey, Manaavey Mlah, Svaadat Jee Sanghaarey.

Aapaa Dekh Avar Nahin Dekhey,Kaahey Kow Jhakh Maarey. (pg. 1375)

Kabir Jee Jo Maareh Jor Kar,Kaahtey Heh Ju Halaal.

Daftar Daee Jab Kaadh Hal, Hoegaa Kaun Havaal (pg. 1375)

Kabir Bhaang, Machhli Surapaan Jo Jo Praanee Khahey.

Tirath, Barat, Nem Kiaye Te Sabhay Rasaatal Jahey. (pg. 1376

Kabir Khoob Khaana Khichri, Ja Meh Amrit Lon.

Heraa Rotee Kaamey Galaa Kataavey Kon. (pg. 1374)

thank you

waheguru ji ka khalsa / waheguru ji ki fateh

[Narsingha]

I would ask you to quote the entire shabad rather than copy and paste quotes out of context from a search engine. Then we can dicuss the correct contexts and their relevance.

With regards to Mahaprasaad (meat) and related quotes. If this is a burning issue with you (as the selection of latter quotes you have chosen implies), then please await our update on shastarvidiya.org coming in a fortnight.

[Panth Ki Jeet]

With regards to Mahaprasaad (meat) and related quotes. If this is a burning issue with you (as the selection of latter quotes you have chosen implies), then please await our update on shastarvidiya.org coming in a fortnight.

there is no burning issue to me, i have no quams about anyones way of living, i just follow my own i merely asked your opinion

i look forward to seeing the update on your site

waheguru ji ka khalsa / waheguru ji ki fateh

[Tili Guti]

this is turning out to be a heated lets get angry and point the finger personal attack.

i thought this is/was meant to be a debate, Mr inderjit, calm down and relax, get off ur high horse and debate, you probably know Narsingha, and a few other people on this forum (from your replies) and i think that it is a personal conflict you have with him. if that is the case, be a man and sort it out with him why bring your personal issues here onto a forum, for all to c. you do ur dirty laudry behind close doors

Not only this post, but a few others you have written, where you accuse of people being complete liars, my friend dont assume of what your company tells you, some things may have had happened which you dont knw about, if you can't keep an open mind and debate then i dont think you should be taking part on these forums.

You seem to have a lot of anger inside of you, how you deal with that is your business, i am not anyone higher then you, i am also not anyone lower then you, please as a friend listen to what i am saying to you and with a cool head digest what i have to say.

Stop this you you you and pointing the finger, just say what you got to say and leave the personal attacks for when you see the people and deal with it then.

(If a wrong and you don't knw these people, and i have got the wrong end of the stick then i apologise, but then stop giving that impression!)

I am also not happy with the manegment on this forum from stopping these sort of personal attacks, and think they should atleast have a word with inderjit.

(DEBATE -to discuss a subject in a formal way)

[KAAL]

every1 is a sher behind their computer but face to face, they jus little billiya. i agree with you tili guti, i have read this inderjits post on other forums where he is a moderator, being a moderator on other forums he should atleast know how to conduct himself on a debating forum.

i also think that the moderators on this forum should be having words with this inderjit and ask him to debate not to have personal attacks. incidently i left those other forums cause all they were was silly comments without people reading the post fully. i thought it was petty so left those forums. i dont want to leave this 1, as i have found it to be very informative and enjoy it.

[Guest]

every1 is a sher behind their computer but face to face, they jus little billiya. i agree with you tili guti, i have read this inderjits post on other forums where he is a moderator, being a moderator on other forums he should atleast know how to conduct himself on a debating forum.

i also think that the moderators on this forum should be having words with this inderjit and ask him to debate not to have personal attacks. incidently i left those other forums cause all they were was silly comments without people reading the post fully. i thought it was petty so left those forums. i dont want to leave this 1, as i have found it to be very informative and enjoy it.

Brother Kaal,

I have decided not to get into any debate, as I want to fully dedicate my time to unite and bring our youth on this site so we all can learn and share our knowledge. Now your post got me concerned and I want to clear few things for you and everyone on this board. We are moderating this board with full attention and spend time on it. Whenever I'm at home or at work I get on site and read each post our members are posting on this forum. So, don't worry about moderating this forum and wherever we will see that its getting personal you will see that post will be locked before anybody points it out.

Look "Narsingha" is here to represent that Akhara and nobody has more knowledge or can define or answer question better than him on this forum as he is related to that Akhara. I have talked to Narsingha and he has told me that criticism or insult gives them courage and they don't mind and I'm writing it on this forum so Narsingha will read this and it should tell you that I’m not making it up for anybody.

I don't see Inderjit attacking Narsingha as he is bringing points but yeah his words are kind of harsh and we will talk to him about it but you should not worry about it as Narsingha is here to take care of this as he represents that Akhara and truth wins at the end so whoever is right or wrong will be here right on this forum.

Look brother Kaal we have all kinds of personalities in this world and we are still living in this society but never said oh I want to go on mountain just because his attitude or way of talking is not what I like to see, but in real life we deal with it and take it as an another personality living with us.

Then what's the reason openly saying, " I left forums because I saw person like him"? If we can live in society and deal with different personalities then why do we have problem on forums like this? Are we that weak? And don't get too personal here as Narsingha is already here and he is responding and stating his points of view from his Akhara and website side and I guess there is no one on this forum can define better than him as he belongs to that Akhara. We are not here to judge anyone and we can't say who is right and who is wrong as we are here to read the discussion so if you feel that he is attacking him or Akhara then please don't feel so as I have talked to him about it and he has told me that he won't mind it.

regards,

[KAAL]

Thanks paji, i see what you are saying and understand where you are coming from, when i said that i left that forum it was simply cause it was silly comments. There are many ways to god, as there are many types of retrievin information, where it is on this site or that, you go to the one which makes the most sense and easist to digest without the garbage. i just dont want this forum turning into the same, i see the moderators are doing a terrific job, and i can see that all of you are on top of things. it didnt seem as this was being addressed by the moderators, forgive my ignorance should knw that things r happinin behind closed doors, and that you guys are dealing with it.

Thanks your post has been much appreciated it and re-enforced that you guys are on top of everything

[Guest]

Thanks paji, i see what you are saying and understand where you are coming from, when i said that i left that forum it was simply cause it was silly comments. There are many ways to god, as there are many types of retrievin information, where it is on this site or that, you go to the one which makes the most sense and easist to digest without the garbage. i just dont want this forum turning into the same, i see the moderators are doing a terrific job, and i can see that all of you are on top of things. it didnt seem as this was being addressed by the moderators, forgive my ignorance should knw that things r happinin behind closed doors, and that you guys are dealing with it.

Thanks your post has been much appreciated it and re-enforced that you guys are on top of everything

You are welcome brother anytime and feel free to contact us if there is any misunderstandings.

Regards,

[SUKHBIR]

Waheguru Ji Ka Khalsa Waheguru Ji Ki Fateh,

Sri Akaal Ji Sahai

It seems you wish to continue going around in circles discrediting the

website, and then not providing any evidence to counteract what has been

said on the website. Blaming GOI propaganda for anything that does not

appeal to your particular blend of Sikhi does not do you any credit. If you

consider the websites as GOI propaganda, please provide evidence.

Going around in circles is exactly what you have been doing in response to

any and all questions, from anyone, regarding your site

As far as discrediting your site is concerned it seems to me and the

majority of posters on this thread that you have

done a fair job of that yourselves firstly by the content of the site itself

and secondly by adding insult to injury through your

inability or reluctance to answer direct questions. Do you think it is

coincidence that recent (GOI) propaganda whether overt or covert

is often indistinguishable from the content's of your site? As to whether it

does me credit or not is yet again a question of opinion,

yours.

Apologies but I am sure there are better ways you can entertain yourself.

Evidently your and my definition of entertainment varies greatly. I must admit there is some amusement in awaiting a new version of your standard 'no information response' but royal variety it ain't. Sorry if you would rather I was doing something else but I am not here to accommodate you. My concern is your site and its 'raision d' etre'.

Once again, if you consider what has been said on the websites as incorrect

or anti-Sikh, then, please do everyone the courtesy of providing a discuson

that is backed up with scripture and/or historical references.

As I have said before (many times) most of your comments on the site are expressions of

your own personal bias or furtherance

of your own agenda and not based on any scripture or historical references

at all. As an example look at some of the reply's you have

made on this thread alone. The majority of your statements are not founded in any scriptural or historical reference whatsoever.

With regard to powers that are against the Sikh Nation, one may ask, WHICH

Sikh nation are you referring to? Considering that since the arrival of the

British, so many personality cults and self-proclaimed saints and factions

have arisen, which do you consider to be true to the Guru's words? Every

group seems to vary in what they believe (i.e., rehits) and none can agree as

to what is true. In the case of the AKJ, they claim to agree with the Akaal

Takht (hence the Akal takht insignia on their websites) yet they do not

agree with meat, Raagmala or keski.

There is but one Sikh nation the same one that was created in1699 by the

tenth Nanak Guru Gobind Singh jee. As opposed to your claim that

"Though Akali Nihangs do not speak of themselves as ‘Hindu’, they do see

themselves of the Hindu Indian nation" I personally would disagree that

Akali Nihangs would align themselves with the idea of a hindu nation in the first place.

But since you clearly do it is worthwhile mentioning that the 'hindu nation' does not and never has existed other than in

the fevered imaginations of indias history revisionists. (and of course yours)

Abraham Eraly's perspective on the fragile nature of India makes compelling

reading.

"The Republic of India is... today only a union of nations, not a

nation-state. Nor has India ever been a nation-state in its long history,

because we have never had the basic elements -- common history, religion,

language, culture and ethnicity -- essential to forge national unity. In

fact, India has no stronger basis for national unity than Europe has -- it

has less basis, really, because of its greater diversity ... It is today

politically fashionable to speak of a certain community and its culture as

truly Indian, but the fact is that there are no pure native Indians, or any

pure native Indian culture... All Indians today are descendants of migrants

or invaders...

The arrival of the British was not the catalyst that you seem to think it was. Since 'independence' we have seen

organisations like the 'Sant nirankaris' whose very conception and patronage has been the work of the (GOI) with the sole aim of causing

division and dissension. As I have mentioned to you before the issues such as

meat are simply divisive serving to create conflict where none should exist.

Self-proclaimed saints cannot create 'factions' as you put it since a faction is a amount

of a whole and these people do not fall into that category.

With such confusion amongst modern mainstream Sikhi, is it any wonder that

the youth are also in disarray and argue over aspects such as meat, hair,

where to take amrit, whether to take amrit, etc etc.

I cannot agree that confusion and disarray summarise the position of Sikh youth today, many parties may wish that this was the case and there is no respite in engineering exactly that situation. Thankfully the majority of Sikh youth that I know or whom I have met or whose comments I have read on this or many other site's lead me to believe otherwise, despite the concerted efforts of those who front sites and other media disseminating misinformation and lies there is still a substantial number of Sikh youth who by Gurujis grace will not waiver. For this to remain the case as well as to protect those more vulnerable we must be at all times, alert.

To fight for a side, you must know what side you are on.

I know my 'colours' and am neither ashamed nor afraid to fly them, they are my Guru's 'colours' and belong to no other. I know your 'colours' as well and the different meaning you to attach to them

, “5. Belief the Akali blue uniform is, ‘Shiv Sroop’ (ie. the very form of

Shiva)”

But that is again only YOUR opinion.Where is your evidence for the above claim?

"I do not accept Ganesha as important. I do not meditate on Krishna, neither

on Vishnu. I do not hear them and do not recognize them. My love is with the

Lotus feet of God. He is my protector, the Supreme Lord. I am dust of his

Lotus feet." (Guru Gobind Singh Ji )

(NB: Pls note the word EVIDENCE....something your arguements against the

websites seem to lack)

(NB:Pls note answering the question......something your reply's and your site definitely lack)

Yet again:

The EVIDENCE used by Veerji were the quotes taken from your own website! You

seem unable to realise that any criticism that I or any other Sikhs have

made, is based almost without exception entirely on the information that

you have pushed into the public domain yourselves. I assume that you are not

known personally to anyone on this forum. It is not you that is

objectionable but the 'information' you provide and the label's that you

use. As far as fighting a case based on subjective views is concerned we are

yet again looking at your now 'standard' reply. That anyone else's opinion

is subjective whereas any comment made by yourself is entirely objective.

This is not the case in any way, shape or form.Your own postings reveal

bias, personal opinions and emotive responses much the same as any other.

Dont fight with fools, they drag you down to their level and beat you with

experience.

For fools read (those that don't agree with me.)

Gur Fateh

Sukhbir Singh

P.S. Tili Gutti if you read Indy's post again you will see he wasn't the one who made the personal reference neither did he accuse any 'individual of cowardice contrast that against : (directed at indy)

"I assume you the same individual who turned up at the Holla Mohalla tournament organised by Boota Singh earlier this year and insulted Nihang Niddar Singh in private. However, when you were asked politely to repeat your comments in public (while facing a camera) and refute Sanatan Sikhi and Shastar Vidiya with any evidence of your own, you ran off?"

Also bear in mind although Indy's style maybe robust and confrontational he makes a very valid point, knowledge of shastar in itself is of little use, Guru Hargobind Singh Jee saw there was a need for the possession and knowledge of arms and it wasn't to prove one's superior Gatka skills at tournaments.

"Sashtran ke adden hai raj, Raj bina nahi tharam chale hai, dharam din sab dale mare hai" (Without the use of power rule cannot be established, without rule, a religion cannot be practiced and without practicing religion nothing can go well).

Satguru Gobind Singh ji

[Guest inderjit]

narsingha.. no im not that inderjit. believe it or not there is more than one person who disagrees with you. nice of you to just assume things without providing any scriptual or personal evidence.

you dont know who i am yet you direct an entire posting at the wrong individual. well done.

tilli guti, sorry mate i dnt know this guy. i just dont agree with the points.

and sorry but i have to ask kaal and tilli why is it when i ask questions its seen as personal attacks and anger, but when narsingha posts msg's callin sikhs across the whole worl brainwashed, and calls shaheed singh's various insulting names etc thats seen to be ok?

when whole communities are insulted its ok, but not when i ask questions?

ansd also please tell me where i made personal attacks? if i was being sarcastic... then whats wrong with that? sarcasm is a skill and tool adopted in all debates and conversations. perhaps you want to re-read what i wrote and point out the objective points. if u choose to point out the bits at the bottom, then you should realise those were genuine questions. concerning the actual practice of the art and wether or not people who promote and practice the art would ever use or have used it? whats objectionable about that?

none of my questions were answered and in a typical politician's way the attention was diverted into a personal one.

again it seems strange that if i choose to just get to the point without messing about and writting poetry im seen as confrontational, but correct me if im wrong, dont the nihnag's pride themselves on speaking their mind? (ps not calling myself a nihang).

and yes singh i am a moderator on another forum and we run that as we have been directed. what has that got to do with my post? this forum does seem to have its own slant as most forums will, and if the forum is willing to allow such topics to be discussed on it, then why do you stress so much when something is asked that goes against the grain?

believe me people if i wanted to make this personal i could, as could a lot of other people here. but thats stupid and pointless and would take the point out the discussion. so therfore i have not and nor will i attempt to.

if you have a point to make make it, or show me where i have insulted somebody personally.

cheers bro's!

[panjabi]

i hope my nihung paaji wont mind if i ask a question on the blue robes..

when this is mentioned ", “5. Belief the Akali blue uniform is, ‘Shiv Sroop’ (ie. the very form of

Shiva)” "

does shiva here refer to shiv shakti ( mind over matter) or shiva as in the demigod??

if it refers to demigod then is there a pankti in sggs about the belief of shiva demigod and akalis wearing blue uniform???

[Guest inderjit]

i humbly request the foum admin to remove the comments made by narsingha concerning an incident which occured a while ago. as sukhbir pointed out THAT WAS a personal attack. and since that is not allowed i believe it should be removed, tilli gutti will also agree with me on this.

especially since narsingha only chose to reveal what he wished and the truth.

yeh yeh i know u have some video recording, but please we all know video's can be edited or even switched on and off before of after a certain event has taken place. if i wanted to drop to your level i could perhaps discuss what actually happened, as there are always two sides to each coin, but i wont. if inderjit singh was here im sure he could tell you what happened. but he prob doesnt even care if u do his nindya behind his back.

and also narsingha, have you ever said that to inderjit singh's face? you seem to have a problem with him and the so-called incident, im just wondering have you ever discussed it with him? by naming a specific indvidual you have turned this into a personal thing, the worst thing is that its against somebody who is not here to debate it back with you. as akaal would agree we can all be sher behind our computers, what about u, u ever said it to him?

to repeat i would appeal to the admin to delete the respective bits inc this above reply if it is deemed inappropriate. thanks :wink:

[KAAL]

akaal would agree we can all be sher behind our computers

I most defanatly agree with the point you have made, i agree whole heartdly i do think it is a personal attack and should be removed, and baba i am not akaal i aint above/beyond death, i am death itself :twisted:

KAAL :twisted:

[Gupt Singh]

where are references to jhatka in dasam granth or anywhere else? ive seen it under the context of "jhatka warriors" but never for meat itself.

and supposedly there is a part of dasam granth which says guru gobind singh drank sukkha. the person who told me said it was in a place called "kavi". i know of no such piece in dasam granth. maybe the nihung here could enlighten me on this.

[Gupt Singh]

and btw does anyone know where ican learn shastar vidiya in uk esp london?

[Gupt Singh]

and just 1 more comment...........nihungs can think what htey like......but at least if ur gonna do nindyaa do it on an alive person.....ive got respect for niddar singh as a martial artist......but against bhai fauja singh or bhai randhir singh would batter him if they were alive not with some special chatka gatka but pure riddhean siddhean and naam imbued powers. but that wouldnt ever happen, because hte two of them are the more gentle and peaceful people ive seen.

and ALSO, btw, ive trained with uptej singh who so much hate is thrown against on that site. yes his martial art isnt the real one, but hes a really nice guy. no, really. he got all the kids interested in sikhi and he was propa safe, never shouted or anything, i stopped doing his lessons cuz they were too basic but his personality could beat any egoed nihung anyday.

[Narsingha]

Sri Akaal Ji Sahai

Information on the upcoming lectures on:

Panjvah Takht Shromani Panth Akali Nihang Singh Khalsa 96 Crore Budha Dal,

Sanatan Sikh Shastar Vidiya

...and related topics click on the link below:

http://www.sikhawareness.com/sikhawareness...topic.php?t=541

[GABROO KHALISTAN DAH]

who do those nihangs represent who created that site?

i doubt that ne nihang dal would endorse that site, as nihangs are sikhs and sikh in entirety, ihave talkin to a budda dal nihang ji, who also skimmed the site, and has the feeling that it is of hindoo agency origins..........

i also have come 2 that conclusion a long time ago, nihangs are nirmal nomatic sikhs, not cocky arogant website hosts.

wahegurooo

ps: nihangs respect bhai randeer singh ji khalsa, shaheed bai akali nihang avtar singh ji brahma(nihang ofcourse), dhun baba jarnail singh ji khasla, and all the other great mahan sikhs of the panth.

waheguroooo

[SUKHBIR]

Waheguru Ji Ka Khalsa Waheguru Ji Ki Fateh,

I am beginning to wonder about the very obvious links between the UKPHA the people who are currently running various talk's and seminars and the website creators of 'shatarvidiya' are we to find that lottery money is funding what they imagine to be a Sikh site?

Any one have any more information?

Gur Fateh

Sukhbir Singh

--------------------------------------------

surbut-khalsa 11:the man in blue

Index the man in blue columns :

http://www.surbut-khalsa.com/11.columns/Th...0blue/00-01.htm

SANATAN SIKH SHASTAR VIDIYA

During the June 7 British Sikh Consultative Forum meeting in Walsall we were given a document written by Nihang Nidar Singh, a gatka teacher who calls himself a 'Sanatan Sikh Shastar Vidiya Gurdev'.

It's main theme is that gatka has moved away from the original Sikh martial art. He is probably right, but he seems to have forgotten that even in the days of Maharaja Ranjit Singh the traditional way of fighting with sword, spear and bow and arrow, was on the way out. Modern gatka is a good method of learning coordination of movement and control over your body. Actual war is with modern weapons, not with traditional Nihang techniques.

Chatka Gatka Ustad Nihang Nidar Singh seems to be confused about Sikhi. A few examples will show what I mean. He writes about a traditional pluralistic Sikhi consisting of Udasis, Seva Panthis, Nirmalas and Akali Nihang Singhs.

Sikhi is not a narrow doctrinal religion. If you stick to the belief in One God, Guru Panth and Guru Granth, and follow the Reht Maryada, that will leave you a lot of freedom for your own individual religious experience. But Nidar Singh wants to include people in the panth who do not follow Guru's teachings. Udasis fought with Guru Gobind Singh against the Rajas and the Mughals, they looked after Gurdwaré, but they are not Sikhs.

Nidar Singh contrasts this 'pluralistic' Sikhi with that of the 'British Raj accommodating' (or Angrez) Sikhs, who later developed into the Singh Sabha movement. In reality things were quite different. When the British Raj treated the Sikhs well, there was peace. At other times the Sikhs and the British disagreed, like in the time of the Singh Sabha movement, over who should control the historical Gurdwaré, and there was a serious conflict.

Nidar Singh reminds me of some western scholars, who also deplore that the Sikhs moved away from the 'pluralistic' Hindu tradition under the influence of the Singh Sabha movement.

Nidar Singh tries to divide the Khalsa in different ranks, based on military skills. Obviously if the Khalsa is doing building work, we will choose builders as our leaders, and when we are waging war, we will follow experienced warriors. But our Guru made farmers, tailors and traders into fighters, and he did not want to create a 'caste' of fighting men, or of builders for that matter. Do not forget that our war against injustice involves more than physical fighting. Our gatka 'Ustad' also favours celibacy, another Hindu tendency.

Nidar Singh's gatka might be interesting, and I am in favour of other approaches than just the almost ballet type of gatka popular these days, but he does not know much about Sikhi ! Gurdwaré beware, do not let this person teach his un-Sikh ideas to the naujawan !

surbut-khalsa 11:the man in blue

[Guest Javanmard]

Paranoia about Sanatan Sikhs seems to be a contagious mental disease here. Oh God let me run away before I become paranoid as well!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Help Help Help!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[Mugermach Singh]

man in blue, more like the man with no clue.