Hari Posted January 7, 2004 Report Share Posted January 7, 2004 Why do Muslims say: Prophet Mohammad (Peace be upon him)? Is peace not already upon him?If he was a Puran Brahmgyaani-Atamgyani, then surely peace is upon him anyway, without us mere mortals saying so? What does salal lah alaih wa salam mean anyway? Does it mean "Peace be upon him"?Or does it mean "Peace is upon him"? I know I'm sounding shallow.But still, I can't but feel it is a bit pretentious.Is it me? 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr §ingh Posted January 7, 2004 Report Share Posted January 7, 2004 you got a point there Hari:D they might doubt it:P I dont know the definition of the Arabic stuff, Lallesh bhaji probably knows, however Muslims says in English peace BE upon him bhull chukk maaf! 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pAki_mUsliMah Posted January 9, 2004 Report Share Posted January 9, 2004 Why do Muslims say: Prophet Mohammad (Peace be upon him)? Is peace not already upon him?If he was a Puran Brahmgyaani-Atamgyani, then surely peace is upon him anyway, without us mere mortals saying so? What does salal lah alaih wa salam mean anyway? Does it mean "Peace be upon him"?Or does it mean "Peace is upon him"? I know I'm sounding shallow.But still, I can't but feel it is a bit pretentious.Is it me? hiya Well muslim's use 'Peace Be Upon Him' for all the Prophets, not only Muhammed(pbuh). Its used as a sign of respect, appreciation, and good will. Muslim's truly respect him for wht the prophets were and wht they did for us.......and since we believe that they has done SOO much for us and brought us towards the right path, we also try doing something for them by saying "peace be upon him" which gives them an even higher rank. you asked if he was already in peace or not...well that will be decided on the Day of Judgement, he was a normal human being like the rest of us, therefore s final destination will also be decided no the day of judgement. hope i answered ur question. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shasterkovich Posted January 10, 2004 Report Share Posted January 10, 2004 If he was a Puran Brahmgyaani-Atamgyani, then surely peace is upon him anyway, without us mere mortals saying so? Good question Hari. I believe that perhaps we are applying the wrong frame of reference to this question. In Islam, what sets Mohammed (PBUH) apart is the belief that he was the last ever Messenger of God, or Prophet. He is believed to have been a Messenger in the literal sense - i.e. he was alleged to have heard Gabriel speak the actual words of the Koran to him. As such, his claim to religious authority is substantially different to that of the Brahmgianis of the Indian religious tradition. In other words, he is considered to have been a Brahmgiani, but not because he was in a state of sehaj or samadhi (even though he may have been), or because he experienced Union with the divine (even though he may have done), but rather because the Book was allegedly spoken to him in Classical Arabic by Gabriel. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mehtab Posted January 10, 2004 Report Share Posted January 10, 2004 Being raised in the middle east all my life, i had the chance to watch way too many Islamic lectures on TV (in Urdu). From what i recall, Peace Be Upon Him is a kind of prayer to Allah to always bless Muhammad Sahib and keep him in chardi kala, also he is believed to be in the 7th heaven, the highest one according to Islam. Plzz correct me if m wrong, and if i am, then my sincere apologies. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted January 10, 2004 Report Share Posted January 10, 2004 Well muslim's use 'Peace Be Upon Him' for all the Prophets, not only Muhammed(pbuh). Its used as a sign of respect, appreciation, and good will. Muslim's truly respect him for wht the prophets were and wht they did for us.......and since we believe that they has done SOO much for us and brought us towards the right path, we also try doing something for them by saying "peace be upon him" which gives them an even higher rank. you asked if he was already in peace or not...well that will be decided on the Day of Judgement, he was a normal human being like the rest of us, therefore s final destination will also be decided no the day of judgement. hope i answered ur question. In Sikhism it is believed no one can pray on the behalf of someone else, you reap what you sow, which are your own deeds, it's is your individual responsibility. I thought in Islam, if we look at how Allah commanded Mohammad not to pray on behalf of his Uncle when he was about to die, this concept was the same? Wasn't he purified by Allah before he recieved revelation? In which case, he wasn't the same as the rest of us. Also, I have been told by another Muslim that the Prophet is also part of the Barzakh, thr realm after this life, like everyone else. So, even though he will be resurrected like everyone else, his place, and the other Prophet's places are assured in heaven. So if he is already guaranteed this highest rank, why would you need to pray for him? Clearly, he is exempt from being judged. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr §ingh Posted January 10, 2004 Report Share Posted January 10, 2004 Very ..VERY good point brought up Saihajleen Kaur Bhenj 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hari Posted January 10, 2004 Author Report Share Posted January 10, 2004 Good question Hari. I believe that perhaps we are applying the wrong frame of reference to this question. In Islam, what sets Mohammed (PBUH) apart is the belief that he was the last ever Messenger of God, or Prophet. He is believed to have been a Messenger in the literal sense - i.e. he was alleged to have heard Gabriel speak the actual words of the Koran to him. As such, his claim to religious authority is substantially different to that of the Brahmgianis of the Indian religious tradition. In other words, he is considered to have been a Brahmgiani, but not because he was in a state of sehaj or samadhi (even though he may have been), or because he experienced Union with the divine (even though he may have done), but rather because the Book was allegedly spoken to him in Classical Arabic by Gabriel. In Islam, what sets Mohammed (PBUH) apart is the belief that he was the last ever Messenger of God, or Prophet. He is believed to have been a Messenger in the literal sense - i.e. he was alleged to have heard Gabriel speak the actual words of the Koran to him. As such, his claim to religious authority is substantially different to that of the Brahmgianis of the Indian religious tradition. This belief that Prophet Mohammad was the last ever messenger of Allah has been proven wrong, due to the manifestation of Satguru Nanak.Satguru Nanak was clearly a messenger of Vahiguru.He was given the authority of Jagat-Guru straight from Vahiguru.No intermediaries like Gabriel.And Satguru Nanak Himself has stated that what is revealed to Him from Vahiguru is what He says.No intermediaries.Straight.One example from Satguru Guru Granth Sahib: Jaisi Mai Aavai Khasam Ki Bani, Taisra Kari Gian, Ve Lalo! As the Word of my Husband Lord comes, so do I reveal it, O Lalo! (SGGS p.722 M.1) There are other Gurbani that say the same thing. In other words, he is considered to have been a Brahmgiani, but not because he was in a state of sehaj or samadhi (even though he may have been), or because he experienced Union with the divine (even though he may have done), Sahaj Samadhi - Nirvikalp Samadhi is not a state, of mind or emotion.It is a going back to origin, original Being or Conciousness.Not state.There are many states of mind which are ecstatic or enstatic (samadhi), but you can't compare these to ultimate Samadhi.Sunn Samadhi. Satguru Nanak was a messenger of Vahiguru in the literal sense too.Was He the last messenger? Answer: No 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted January 10, 2004 Report Share Posted January 10, 2004 Saihajleen Kaur Khalsa, Good points! Keep it up. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shasterkovich Posted January 10, 2004 Report Share Posted January 10, 2004 In Sikhism it is believed no one can pray on the behalf of someone else, you reap what you sow, which are your own deeds, it's is your individual responsibility. I thought in Islam, if we look at how Allah commanded Mohammad not to pray on behalf of his Uncle when he was about to die, this concept was the same? Wasn't he purified by Allah before he recieved revelation? In which case, he wasn't the same as the rest of us. Also, I have been told by another Muslim that the Prophet is also part of the Barzakh, thr realm after this life, like everyone else. So, even though he will be resurrected like everyone else, his place, and the other Prophet's places are assured in heaven. So if he is already guaranteed this highest rank, why would you need to pray for him? Clearly, he is exempt from being judged. I'm sorry but you have simply missed the point. Saihaljeen, as you probably know, Mohammed (PBUH) is especially favoured by God. The declaration of faith for a Muslim is "There is only one God, and his Prophet is Mohammed (PBUH)". Muslims will, according the Koran, be judged favourably by God. Hence, reference to Mohammed (PBUH) immediately with an expression of good-will ("May peace be upon him") is an affirmation of a Muslim's credentials as a Muslim. According to the Koran, simply declaring oneself a Muslim is considered an act of piety and virtue that will tip the scales on your side very, very much when your deeds are being weighed up and judged on the Day of Judgement. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hari Posted January 10, 2004 Author Report Share Posted January 10, 2004 According to the Koran, simply declaring oneself a Muslim is considered an act of piety and virtue that will tip the scales on your side very, very much when your deeds are being weighed up and judged on the Day of Judgement. You neglected to add that this belief is delusional. :roll: Also regarding Jibreel Farishta (Gabriel) dictating the words of Quran to Prophet Mohammad, the Quran clearly states that angels do not have same level of authority as Allah, therefore the Quran cannot be the word of Allah.Seems like it is the word of Angel Gabriel.Prove me wrong. Or is Angel Gabriel another mythical metaphor?Are angels perfect beings?They are created beings right?Just like the many gods and goddesses mentioned in Guru Granth Sahib, and they (devi, devte) are even said to be dirty (maile). 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted January 11, 2004 Report Share Posted January 11, 2004 So, by saying 'peace be upon him', Muslims are reasserting the fact that they are Muslims? I would have thought praying 5 times a day was enough. Anyway, I see your point. Also, Hari you are absolutely right, the concept of Guru in Sikhism is different to these purified messengers Islam believes in. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shasterkovich Posted January 11, 2004 Report Share Posted January 11, 2004 Hi Hari, We are all a little insane, but I am completely under fire from my subconscious and instinctive mind at this time, due to a physical and psychical meditation/penance I am going through. However, I believe that one side effect of this subconscious expurgation is that I can view alternative ideologies and belief systems with much more clarity than I could before. Hence, I can site my consciousness in alternative certainties without sinking in the mire. I will try my best to answer your questions. Also regarding Jibreel Farishta (Gabriel) dictating the words of Quran to Prophet Mohammad, the Quran clearly states that angels do not have same level of authority as Allah, therefore the Quran cannot be the word of Allah.Seems like it is the word of Angel Gabriel.Prove me wrong. From the perspective of a Muslim, your hypothesis is an illogic because the Koran is explicit that only one angel disobeyed God by refusing to prostrate before Adam, and that that angel was cursed and punished terribly for his disobedience. Therefore it is unreasonable to consider that Gabriel was acting otherwise than in accordance with God's express instructions, especially given that past Semitic scriptures and revelations are clear that only one angel (who was not Gabriel) was punished and is a rebel. Also, from the perspective of a Muslim, the evidence is that the Koran contains no grammatical error. Therefore, it is completely perfect, and it could not be perfect unless it was from God, because only God is perfect. Furthermore, it is implausible that Mohammed (PBUH) could have simply made up the Koran, because he did not have the education, the craft or the skill to do it. Or is Angel Gabriel another mythical metaphor?Are angels perfect beings?They are created beings right?Just like the many gods and goddesses mentioned in Guru Granth Sahib, and they (devi, devte) are even said to be dirty (maile). All that can be said about Gabriel (from the perspective of a Muslim), is that he conveyed the words of Allah (which were perfect) directly into Mohammed (PBUH). Also, that he is ranked very highly by God, and the enemies of Gabriel are the enemies of God too. Gabriel is NOT unclean. There is one unclean fallen angel, and a host of djinn who may be clean or unclean. There exist, according to the Koran, very many beings and things which are unseen. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Vampire Posted January 13, 2004 Report Share Posted January 13, 2004 I must first congratulate Shasterkovich on his patience. Being a Muslim, I found alot of Hari's comments quite inflamatory and offensive, yet Shasterkovich continued to answer him in a calm, knowledgable attitude. Please continue the good work. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Vampire Posted January 13, 2004 Report Share Posted January 13, 2004 Second, in reply to the remark, "I would have thought praying 5 times a day was enough". God instructs us Muslims to always remember him via good deeds, just mentioning him or by praising his chosen prophet. There is no limit to doing any of these. Yes you may be performing prayer 5 times a day but I am certain that most people commit uncountable sins in the course of that same day. The Koran says "and follow your bad deed with a good one and it will erase it". 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hari Posted January 13, 2004 Author Report Share Posted January 13, 2004 I must first congratulate Shasterkovich on his patience. Being a Muslim, I found alot of Hari's comments quite inflamatory and offensive, yet Shasterkovich continued to answer him in a calm, knowledgable attitude. Please continue the good work. Well I believe that if Prophet Mohammad was a Knower of the Ultimate Reality, and that he went back to That Which is Beyond God, the God above God, then peace is upon him, and will always be upon him. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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