Nicky kaur Posted April 24, 2003 Report Share Posted April 24, 2003 wjkk wjkf hi how r u all. just wanted ur opinion on something. recently my masser passed away. he had cancer, he was a gursikh did alot of path and seva. but i want to know why does god give soo much dukh especially to the gud ppl out there. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted April 24, 2003 Report Share Posted April 24, 2003 wjkk wjkf hi how r u all. just wanted ur opinion on something. recently my masser passed away. he had cancer, he was a gursikh did alot of path and seva. but i want to know why does god give soo much dukh especially to the gud ppl out there. Its the dukh for you...but it wasnt dukh for ur massar..if he did lot of bhagti and seeva probably he was lookin for that moment... because for true lovers of vaheguroo...they seek death..that when is the time to merge urself with vaheguroo... Bhagat Kabir says... JIS MARAN JHAGAT DARAIE MERA MANN ANAND MARAN HI PAIE POOORMAAND Death that which whole world is afraid of, my mind is happy because death is only way where you can get poormaanand (Infinity of Anand) I know how is it feel like to lose a person...in fact i lost my father quite recently.... If your massar was a gursikh did lot of seva and patt..you shouldnt be sad or cry....because according to guru granth sahib ji true lovers of vaheguroo or gurmukh acheive salvation (merge with vaheguroo))..their soul doesnt wander around in rebirths...there soul becomes one with god... when you cry ...it just hurts the soul... i know this is a very complex topic.. i can imagine what you goin through but pls dont blame on it god.. Body is made of air, water, fire ,sky and earth. soul is not...soul is immortal..soul never dies.... check this out ..may be this will help you to understand life better..its a must read http://www.sikhawareness.com/sikhawareness...wtopic.php?t=18 ...i m sure it will help you.... but as a gursikh i can only imagine what sort of anand your massar havin now...staright to sachkhand.........................VAHEGUROOOOOOO 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nicky kaur Posted April 24, 2003 Author Report Share Posted April 24, 2003 i know what your saying is right, atleast where he is know he is happy and not in dukh. he was in soo much pain when he was alive. but it doesn't make the loss any easier. it was hard seeing him, in soo much pain. u understand what i'm going through. everybody says that its all about karam. everything that happens is b'coz our bad deeds in our past life, but wouldnt our bad deeds but washed away if we did path and seva. and spent our whole life as a gursikh 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gupt Singh Posted April 24, 2003 Report Share Posted April 24, 2003 if your uncle was a propa gursikh then hes in a much better place then u can ever imagine.....that short period of pain is negated a million times ova by being in saach khand. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted April 24, 2003 Report Share Posted April 24, 2003 i know what your saying is right, atleast where he is know he is happy and not in dukh. he was in soo much pain when he was alive. but it doesn't make the loss any easier. it was hard seeing him, in soo much pain. u understand what i'm going through. everybody says that its all about karam. everything that happens is b'coz our bad deeds in our past life, but wouldnt our bad deeds but washed away if we did path and seva. and spent our whole life as a gursikh um lets see...you remind of this sakhi i heard from baba ishar singh ji tapes talkin about in gurus time.. There were two shopkeepers in guru nanak's time. (A)One shopkeeper close his shop early to go to guru nanak's divan And another ( shop-keeper goes to porstitues... One day when (A) shop-keeper was returnin back from divan he hit the stone in the roadway and he hurt his foot At the same time ( shop-keeper was returnin back from his place...He found treasure of gold & jewelry Next mornin while they were at shop .. shoopkeeper ( asks shoopkeeper (a) you hurt ur feet because you went to listen guru nanak's divan and i went to see porstitute and i got treasure of gold and jewelry on my return home...shoopkeeper(a) got confused and both shoopkepers went to guru nanak to reveal their mystery... Guru Nanak said shopkeper(a) did paaps in last life...you were to supposed to get hang in this life but since you have become relegious and start comin to divan you just gotta away with bruise on ur foot by stone... and then guru nanak replied to shopkeeper ( since you did charity work in ur past life you got ur share now(treasure of gold and jewelry) but however what you doing now ..its seems like you will die in some harsh disease... now thats a sakhi ...point of this sakhi was relate two suitations together.. your massar ji could have get worse punishments ever like...born blind, disabled or worst could have happened in the past while.. would be more pain... what you think of pain-suffering is not always a pain for some people..for some people is just a excuse of death(kaal)...pain suffering could be really worse.. thanks for vaheguroo to give massar ji human life..soo many years to live and do his bhagti...thanks for vaheguroo to give massar ji all the time he spent...all vaheguroo's will... no one can argue anything...always remember two things ji...sabar(pateince) and shakur(to vaheguroo for everything) even burned roti...because for some unfortunate people out there...they dont even get roti in their nisaab and they still survivin but in life suffering way... i hope thats help ji...vahegurooo ... AKAL HE AKALLLL 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted April 24, 2003 Report Share Posted April 24, 2003 firstly - sorry to hear about ur massar but i tottally agree with neo - gursikhs cant wait till the day they can leave their physical body and merge with waheguru it may be dukh for the relatives i know - but as everyone will say "hes in a better place" a place where everyone wants to go.. my dads brother used to travel da world doin his parchar - dunno if anyone ever heard of him - giani kirpal singh from bopari - studied by sant gurbachan singh bhindrawale - he passed away liek a few yrs ago ... even tho it was very depressin for our whole family - we all knew that he had achieved wat he'd always wanted... 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nicky kaur Posted April 24, 2003 Author Report Share Posted April 24, 2003 thanx alot guys, everything u have said is true. to be honest i never though of it like that. i suppose it helps looking at it from that angle, rather than thinking like i was. got to be grateful to waheguru, for not letting him suffer anymore. if he was strong i think we all should be too. neway thanx alot. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted April 30, 2003 Report Share Posted April 30, 2003 Sikhs dont beleive in hell or heaven literally But 8.4 Million of recincarnations of animal phase could be consider as hell And Merging with vaheguroo while you are alive can be heaven (sachkhand) Yes yes.. Sikhs beleive you can see the heaven while you are alive...by doing naam simran on vaheguroo and reciting gurbani. Thats just basic however.. imagine there is a stairs to hell to heaven and vice versa consider one stair as a different levels.. like for example- one step closer to hell is "Living a life of an manmukh but did good deeds" and one step closer to heaven is an gursikh who did all the seeva and life live like a gurmukh but couldnt reach the bhramgyan avashta.. if i m not mistaken there are 4 stairs from hell to heaven and vicer versa.. 1. Paapi straight to hell with no visa required 2. Manmukh- Lived his/her life as manmukh ..didnt follow gurus principles but did good deeds 3. Gurmukh- which we all are 4. a) Bhramgyan- Merge with vaheguroo (No rebirts as human or animals). Thats where you get poormananand(infinity of piece of mind)..thats is where your soul and guru's soul becomes one.. 4 Nishkaan or Niskhaam(not quite sure)- Thats where you get above all 4 a) but vaheguroo sent you as a "saint" again to spread peace and love. I have got all this information from baba ishar singh ji rara walie tapes.. if you guys have any doubts or wish to correct me.pls do so....me just a learner of sikhi 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted April 30, 2003 Report Share Posted April 30, 2003 neo... its nishkaam :wink: fateh 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gupt Singh Posted April 30, 2003 Report Share Posted April 30, 2003 there is a hell inbetween your cycles of reincarnation. you are literally battered with a stick, boiled alive countless times, over and over by jaam, etc in between lives. bhai rama singh saw this himself and mentions it in his book. theres also plenty of references of jaam in the guru granth. theres even a bani which describes him! 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sikh_Soulja Posted April 30, 2003 Report Share Posted April 30, 2003 WJKK, WJKF Sory to hear about ur masser. i lost my gran,masser,n 2 ova family relatives all in 1 month so i no wot ur goin thru but da fact is dat da only way our soul can be re-united wid Waheguru is to seek death. we cry wen we r born......y?......becoz our souls av been taken away from waheguru n placed on earth. in order to be re-united again.....we have to do paat so dat wen we do die again.....we are re-united wid waheguru. we r placed on dis very bad planet on purpose for waheguru to see if we do paat. da more we do da better it is for us in the after life. so although death is a very tragic n emotional time.....it is beneficial for the person who has died.he/she wud be in a better place. dnt be sad.......be happy dat he followd the teachings of our Gurus n was a Gursikh. wen we die.......da only thing dat goes wid us is our simran n paat. we can buy all da jewlry n mansions but only our simran goes wid us. so be happy cz ur masser was a Gursikh n therfore did alot of paat. WJKK, WJKF 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nicky kaur Posted April 30, 2003 Author Report Share Posted April 30, 2003 UR VERY VERY RIGHT, A LOSS OF A LOVED ONE IS ALWAYS HARD BUT I KNOW HES IN A BETTER PLACE NOW, NOT IN DUKH, MAKES U THINK HOW SHORT LIFE IS GOT TO MAKE THE MOST OF IT WHILE U CAN 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
themanfromtheasylum Posted May 7, 2003 Report Share Posted May 7, 2003 some ppl have raised some excellent points regarding death and karma, re-incarnation etc. the one ultimate truth we have in our life is death.. and the suffering and happiness we have in our many lifetimes is eventually all evened out.. to phrase it more simply, (i do apologise if some ppl may find this a lil to flippant) but in our life we do and suffer and earn 'brownie points' to attain ultimate salvation.. the pain ur masser may have felt, for all we know he may have been suffering that pain in order to join God in heaven, to escape from an uneeded next janaam.. i remember my father telling me of how his father never ate a bean in his last 3 months because he had paid all his dues and if he had eaten, he would have been in debt which he would have had to come back to fulfill.. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dirtyd21 Posted May 9, 2003 Report Share Posted May 9, 2003 At the moment Im going through a similiar thing to Nicky and offer my sympathies to her and any one else who has either experienced death or is experiencing it at teh moment. Im grateful that everyones suggested things on a Sikhi front about those loved ones that leave us and how much better it is for them where they are now. I just want to make a few points and I wanna apologise in advance for my dodgy spelling and also if I offend anyone with my opnions. I just have a few things to say and want to air them. Its always easier for other people to rationalise the experience or hardship your going through and although looking at your situation with logic often brings the clarity to situation required for you to move on, it sometimes doesnt help. Sometimes you need to eveolve as a person at your own pace and deal with things your way and be told how to deal with things. I think it takes some strength of character, and a real strength of faith for you to not be affected by death. There is no shame in crying. Its often caused by emotions that your enetitled to. For some it isnt contrsuctive to cry - when you apply the rational Sikhi viewpoint on death - it doesnt seem appropriate to cry. 'Why cry? you cant bring them back, it isnt going to achieve anything'. The thing is - youve just lost someone close - why shouldnt you cry? If your upset shed a tear if that helps you deal with the situation. If you want to be depressed and down about it in order to grieve then do so. You are entitled to grieve. Most of us havent seen half the hardship that our parents have seen or have got half the strength of resolve of some of the older generations. Yet they seem to come to terms with things a lot quicker than us. Sikhi and life is about learning from expereinces. Death is inevitable - and we all have to figure out ways to deal with it. We live in an age where we are kind of used to asking questions and getting some kind of answer. Where if we want to know how something works we can be given a demonstartion, a diagram and even a working example if necessary. In an age where if we like something and it broke or went missing we get it replaced. Death defys these traits that we're used to. If someone dies - although the soul never dies and we are aware that they'll either be at one with God or reincarnated its still doesnt erase the fact that theyve gone. Their no longer in your company, and unfortunatly your never going to have the pleasure of their company again whilst your alive. You cant go to the shop and get them replaced. People rationalise it and try to put a positive spin on it, but its like that maths lesson at school where you didnt have a clue what the teacher was on about but new that it must work beacuse the teacher was telling you that it worked. Remember how hard your head felt, as though your head was gonna explode, the anxietyt. Only after putting the work in did it sink in or may be it never sinked in. My hearts always felt like that whenever someones passed away - as though it was gonna explode with the pain and grief - but I keep getting told about how much better they are where they are. I can see the 'Sikhi equation' on death. I kind of understand it - but it still hurts to try to deal with death. Some people never understand maths and have difficulty undersanding certain complex equations - some people never undertsand death and always have difficulty coming to tearms with it. Im aware that I need to put the effort into my Sikhi and may be in time I'll truly understand how to deal with the emotion of losing a loved one. You cant get a attched to people, they come and go. God is always there - your faith in good is what carrys your through life - through teh good and bad. God will alwyas be there. I can be told as many positive rational things about death, most make sense but unfortunatly at this period in my life they dont make it easier to deal with death. They dont make the mourning and grief easier. Its inevitable - people in your life will die. Loved ones will leave you - to be with God - I just dred the day that I lose any of my parents - that situation im afrad would too difficult to rationalise. Wjkk wjkf 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted May 9, 2003 Report Share Posted May 9, 2003 great post dirty.. no one has said that when someone dies u have to be stone cold and just say "oh they have gone to waheguru - they are in a better place".... people cry to make them feel better - to release their pain - its human nature and everyone will cry the most painful time is when someone passes away when they are young... thats when u see most people crying at their funerals... my gran was 93 when she passed away - altho it was a sad time it was inevitable - and in all honesty we were happy for her that she had lived such a long life to pray to waheguru - and we knew she was in a place where she would be much happier death is something which no one can stop - whatever is written in ur kismet - thats wat will happen fateh 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tavleen Posted May 9, 2003 Report Share Posted May 9, 2003 Waheguru Ji Ka Khalsa Waheguru Ji Ki Fateh sorry to hear about your masser ji. i guess the main thing to understand (according to Gurbani) is that death shouldn't be treated as something "bad." What's bad/wrong about it? It's the ultimate "end" for us all, rite? I heard this shabad at Gurudwara one time at a keertan for someone who passed away not too long ago--- Vaddhans Mahalla Pella aavoh miloh saheliho sachRaa naam laeyhaa(n ) Come, O my companions - let us meet together and dwell upon the True Name roveh birhaa tan kaa aapNaa sahib sa(n )maalehaa(n ) Let us weep over the body's separation from the Lord and Master; let us remember Him in contemplation. saahib samaaley panth nihaaley asaa bhee othai jaaNaa Let us remember the Lord and Master in contemplation, and keep a watchful eye on the Path. We shall have to go there as well. jis kaa keeaa tin hee leeaa hoaa tisai kaa bhaaNaa He who has created, also destroys; whatever happens is by His Will. jo tin kar paaeaa su aagai aaeaa asee kay hukam karegaa Whatever He has done, has come to pass; how can we command Him? aavoh miloh saheliho sachRaa naam laeyha Come, O my companions - let us meet together and dwell upon the True Name. ||1|| http://www.sikhitothemax.com/PageASP.asp?ShabadID=2195 the next shabad on this page starts off with the most awesome death-related Gurbani line ever! maraN na mandaa lokaa aakheeai jay mar jaaNai aisaa koy Death would not be called bad, O people, if one knew how to truly die. 8) sorry about the super late reply to this topic. May Waheguru Ji bless us all with the strength to accept His Will. Chardi Kalaa Waheguru Ji Ka Khalsa Waheguru Ji Ki Fateh 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
singh100 Posted May 13, 2003 Report Share Posted May 13, 2003 Hi to everone. I lost my father to cancer a few years ago and it was really hard for me my mum and sisters. Beacuse of this, all the responsibility was on me and I did used to blame god for putting all this on my head. But with time you understand births and deaths happen, he has written when people are born and died and no one change that. Time is a great healer. Just out of interest we scattered my dads ashes near a gudwara in india, near amritsaar. But is there a place like that over here in the uk, I was just interested to see if there was 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted May 13, 2003 Report Share Posted May 13, 2003 Just out of interest we scattered my dads ashes near a gudwara in india, near amritsaar. But is there a place like that over here in the uk, I was just interested to see if there was I think all sikhs ashes should be flown in the kirartpur sahib gurdwara.. there is a river there.. up there...i know my father ashes had to released in kiratpur sahib ji... does anyone can enlighten more on this?? but i think this recommended to bring your ashes in kiratpur sahib ji and release at the river near by... 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mugermach Singh Posted May 13, 2003 Report Share Posted May 13, 2003 not read the posts properly but... We are within the Hukam of Akal Puruk. (2nd pourie of Jap Ji Sahib) Lets just accept it. The only place where pain resides is in the mind. We should find a techniques to control this mind as it is only the mind that is polluted, the soul is always pure. The technique given from what i've read is naam. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nectar Posted January 2, 2005 Report Share Posted January 2, 2005 Very nice posts....My Fufad ji also was the same person as Nicky's Massarji...lot of Naam Simran,Paath...He was blessed with a very nice life ...but he had terrible lung infection , that he cud not breathe and had to be on oxygen 24/7 ....I had the same doubts...so I asked my Veerji(cousin) about this...and he said that....just like a Sunaar(one who designs Gold) Gold has to burn before turning into pure Gold....burn it to remove impurities...similarly...A Sikh burns to become a pure Khalsa...all his impurities are removed... 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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