sevak Posted May 8, 2003 Report Share Posted May 8, 2003 it dont matter how much paath you do, how much simran you do.... if you do kaam its all useless...because paath isnt empty recitation... paath is telling you to do sumthing....and your doing the opposite.... look sewak im gonna leave it at this....you have a different approach to sikhi... All the time you keep thinking of love as kaam and then start providing quotes from Gurbani how bad Kaam is. Everyone knows how bad kaam is. It DOES matter how much paat and simran you do. If you do REAL SIMRAN AND PATH WITH HEART .... then Kaam will start to go away slowly and slowly. It takes time but it does go away and by PATH AND SIMRAN you also get REAL GYAN over such things which is beyond human understanding and impossible without some REAL PATH AND SIMRAN. IF YOU REACH THE STAGE OF PURE LOVE TO GOD EVEN FOR ONCE, YOU WILL NOT EVEN FEEL KAAM EVEN IF YOU FORCEFULLY TRY TO BRING IT IN YOU ! I would only describe you as caught between dualism and you fail to recognise that Sikhism is beyond such discussions as they are futile. Its like in Anand Sahib , Guru Amar Das rights that sastar and simritee keep talking about good and evil but they are not able to know the essence of reality. Discussions like wether to eat meat or not, wether to date or not, wether to listen to bhangra or not , wether fish and eggs are vegetarian and not are equally futile and lack insight. People who do real path and simran know that the answer to these things dont lie in 'yes and no'. To understand the foolishness of these things one needs to do path and simran, discussing such things are simply a distraction. That is why Guru Ji never made any concrete statements or set up any notions, beliefs which ought to be followed suchas "DONT EAT MEAT. EAT MEAT.' bla bla bla ! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sevak Posted May 8, 2003 Report Share Posted May 8, 2003 Lastly, if you meet a girl/boy and fall in love with him/her .. and you'll be supressing that feeling inside you .. LOL So although you got the feeling inside you , but you are forcing yourself to not act like that.. that is wrong ! I am not talking about kaam, so dont bring kaam in. I am only talking about falling in love. I know devotees(bhakts)... , dated there girl for 10-13 years and is now married ! What do you have to say for that now ??? LOL Most devotees will feel the need of a company, a person who will do simran with them and togther they can work on the spiritual path and reach God. Theres nothing wrong in dating as long as your intentions are not evil :twisted: If you date someone out of kaam then DONT Date. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jassa Posted May 8, 2003 Report Share Posted May 8, 2003 ummmm......nope like i said...i believe guru ji told us the way to live and im tryin to liv that way... you have your own way of looking at it...lets leave it that... and it doesnt matter to me if your 'devotee' was checkin nx grl 4 10-13 years....i still think theyre wrong... 50 years 100 years it doesnt matter... to me dating is wrong and i believe guru ji says it is wrong... you say that we'd b surpressing our feelings.... by resisting kaam am i not surpressing my feelings... by wanting 2 spend my 10 pound on sumthing rather than giving it to sangat.. am i not surpressing my feelings.... by wanting to go and smack the shit out of every gorah that calls me paki am i not surpressing my feelings... the thing is...that our feelings arnt always rite...the mind plays games...its weak...it tells you to do the wrong thing...i.e folllowing your mind is manmut (doing wat the mind wants) i am saying to do what Guru ji wants which is Gurmat(doing what guru ji wants) if your so bothered about pleasing your mind so that it doesnt hinder you go ahead...ill stick 2 guru ji if you dont mind... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KAAL Posted May 8, 2003 Report Share Posted May 8, 2003 woohoo 6 pages, of goin around in a circle, come on lets see if we can make it 7!!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nindi Posted May 8, 2003 Report Share Posted May 8, 2003 I think theres too many people saying its 'right' or 'wrong' to have a gf/bf. Everyone is entiatalled to voice their opinions, im sure theres nothing written in the Sri Guru Granth Ji to state wether it is right or wrong to have a gf/bf, one has to follow the true essence of gurujis path and listen to their heart and then decide for themselves wether what they are doing is right or wrong. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KAAL Posted May 8, 2003 Report Share Posted May 8, 2003 thanx nindi i have said more or less the same thing on pg 3, 4, and 5, u jus siad it on 6, hopefully we can hit 7 and someone else can say it on that page aswell :twisted: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nindi Posted May 8, 2003 Report Share Posted May 8, 2003 Like u say theres no point in going round and round in circles then! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KAAL Posted May 8, 2003 Report Share Posted May 8, 2003 i was looking forward for it to go to page 7 oh well :twisted: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
K4ur Posted May 8, 2003 Report Share Posted May 8, 2003 okay sorry Kaal.... and any1 i have offended. I had enuff of this topic man... Obvious its goin nowhere and its doing my hed in. ... lolz But i still dnt agree... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gurmit Posted May 8, 2003 Report Share Posted May 8, 2003 Y isn't there a poll on this debate? :? At least then we wouldn't be going round in circles, page after page. Every1's opinion could be looked at easily by statistics rather then reading posts saying the same thing againand again! 8) :roll: I think every's gettin fed up of it K4ur :wink: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kaur @ gurus feet Posted May 10, 2003 Report Share Posted May 10, 2003 wjkk,wjkf i've really have had enough of this topic, has any of this squabbling actually helped u Sikh Soulja? :? At the end of the day a person will do what they want reguardless. hence we fall into the many cycles of lifetimes due to karam. u may be blind to the truth or u might b ignoring / refusing it; but don't distort sikhi / gurbani teachings to suit ur own opinion. i've mentioned this b4 & can't stress it enough. wot's there left to say? ... wjkk,wjkf Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jassa Posted May 10, 2003 Report Share Posted May 10, 2003 yeh dis post has ha dits day...we turned it into an argument....aint gd bt ppl now make up your mind... i dont think a poll would be a good idea...all it would end up doing is give houmai to the person thats argument won.... if your like me, youve got enough ego as it is.and personally i dnt think its gna solve anything except show how slipt we are... lets jus forget it Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NaamBiyaasi Posted May 24, 2003 Report Share Posted May 24, 2003 Vaheguru Ji ka Khalsa Vaheguru Ji Ki Fateh Let me add in my 2 cents. I have a girlfriend. Have had one for about a year and a half and there is no shame in that. I am in my mid- twenties, and she is the first and last girl I will ever date. Now, being a person on the path of amrit, why have I dated this person? Plain and simple, the moment I met this person the qualities I saw in this person stuck me like a tonne of bricks. Having had met many attractive people in my life and possible suiters, what had made this person different, and made her have such an impression on me? I was very puzzled as to why this person was different and has such an affect of me, that no other person ever had. Why is it that the first time I saw her I literally had to tell myself to breath in and breath out? This is when I went to Our Guru's Feet, and asked who this person was. The hukamnama spoke of me being empty inside, and how now I was complete. How my search had been over. How now I had companionship, and would find the True Love. From this Command from Our Guru, I knew that this person, would be a Great Sangat in my life, and was not just any person. A person that I would walk on this life pilgrimage with and with Guru's Kirpa find the True Lover within. Because of this I spoke with this person and almost instantly we connected and we became good friends. As time progressed I started to have deeper feelings for this person, feelings that went beyond anything I had experienced with any other. I wanted to run away, and be alone as I thought this persons views of Sikhism were too different from mine and that she was distracting me from Vaheguru. So I took a Hukamnama, and was blatently asked by Our Guru, "Why are you running away?" I was told that when it is time to enter the battle field I pack up my belongings and leave. This struck me very hard, and almost made me cry, as I could not comprehend how our Guru knew what I was doing and knew the truth behind the action. I was running away, because I was falling in love. And this scared me, ALOT. I felt these feelings were wrong, and that I should not have them. But Guru Ji questioned me upon my actions, and forced me to look inside myself for the real answer... This person that Guru Ji has brought into my life has been a Great Blessing in my life, and to Guru Ji I have to give All my thanks. I never knew I was such a selfish person, that I was so close minded, that I was so judgemental, until I had this sangat that forced me to look at these qualities. My views of Sikhism are different from this persons. I am someone Ready to commit my Life to Our Guru, and with Guru's Grace be initiated into the Khalsa, while this person is not. In the beginning, we had many arguments about this, so again, I was at a point to "run," and take the easier way out. I asked our Guru for advice, and was scoulded for putting down another for their belief. I was told, what right did I have to place judgement on the relationship of others with God. This again, was a slap in my face and a real eye opener. Why was I thinking of myself as being so high in my thought and spirituality? Each person will have a unique relationship with our Beloved. Respect that and respect God's relationship with them. Each will be different.... Last night, was the night before my birthday, and I was on the phone with my Sangat. I told her that I would have to get off the phone to do paat, and for the first time, she told me not to get off, and that we should do it together. In a year and a half of knowing her, this really surprised me, as she is a person that keeps her spirituality very much reserved, and now she wanted to share this. It was very pleasant to share in this experience with Our Beloved. I, as a person, had always been open to her about my thinking and spiritual beliefs, even doing such things as giving her a Sundar Goutka for Valentines day. It was a Great Gift from Vaheguru. Today was my birthday, and for the first time in our relationship, we both went to the Gurdwara together. The Hukamnama said "Through the Gurdwara, the Guru's Gate, one obtains understanding. By being washed through this Gate, it becomes pure." Guru Knew and Knows everything in my life and yours also. Guru is my sole guidance. Having been someone very anti-dating, Guru made me face it. As a person, through my interactions with this sangat, my mind has become more open, I have become more loving towards others, I have become more accepting of others flaws and my own and seen first had my selfishness and countless other qualities that I will work on. So having said all of this, what is my view on dating? I believe that each situation is unique. But there are 3 components, Guru, yourself and the sangat. Our living Guru Guides us when we are at cross-roads in our lives. Guru Ji is my companion, true friend and Loving Parent that wants only the best for me and the same for you. One of the greatest gifts Guru Gives us is being in sangat with those that help us see our faults, and through whose companionship we become more God Conscious. From what Guru had shown me through guidance, like what you have seen above, I have come to realise that we should NEVER doubt that Our Guru knows us each individually, and will guide us as such. So should you date or not, ask OUR Guru, and you will be told of this answer, in your INDIVIDUAL situation and at this point in your life. Guru speaks to us, and knows what we will understand and digest. Do it with a VERY open mind,with no pre-determined notions or desires of what you think is best. Accept what Guru Tells you as Best. Sikhism is about Love, so be weary of lust, anger, greed, attachement and Ego. Sikhism is about growing, so be weary of stagnant and rigid thought. Sikhism is about Learning so be weary of becoming a teacher. Sikhism is about respect so be weary of becoming close-hearted..... God Bless Vaheguru Ji Ka Khalsa Vaheguru Ji Ki Fateh Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gupt Singh Posted May 25, 2003 Report Share Posted May 25, 2003 can i just say sikhism rejects the idea of "love" with someone else. dhaevugu(n)dhhaaree mehulaa 9 || Raag Dayv-Gandhaaree, Ninth Mehl: juguth mai jhoot(h)ee dhaekhee preeth || In this world, I have seen love to be false. apunae hee sukh sio subh laagae kiaa dhaaraa kiaa meeth ||1|| rehaao || Whether they are spouses or friends, all are concerned only with their own happiness. ||1||Pause|| maero maero subhai kehuth hai hith sio baadhhiou cheeth || All say, ""Mine, mine"", and attach their consciousness to you with love. a(n)th kaal su(n)gee neh kooo eih achuruj hai reeth ||1|| But at the very last moment, none shall go along with you. How strange are the ways of the world! ||1|| mun moorukh ajehoo neh sumujhuth sikh dhai haariou neeth || The foolish mind has not yet reformed itself, although I have grown weary of continually instructing it. naanuk bhoujul paar purai jo gaavai prubh kae geeth ||2||3||6||38||47|| O Nanak, one crosses over the terrifying world-ocean, singing the Songs of God. ||2||3||6||38||47|| read this topic where people discussed it. http://www.akj.org/phorum/read.php?f=3&i=6159&t=6159 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted May 25, 2003 Report Share Posted May 25, 2003 i believe that true love is only with gurbani and with waheguru - when u reach that higher stage of enlightenment this is the only love you will experience however - i dont condem the whole love between a man and woman - father and son - mother and daughter - friend and foe, its how we get through life, how many people here can honestly say that they dont love their own mother and father???? love between humans is one thing, but ultimate true love should always be towards waheguru, keep the 2 things separate, aint "attachment" a sin?? :shock: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jassa Posted May 25, 2003 Report Share Posted May 25, 2003 lol we're back to square 1.... tho i sed my piece...no point repeating... but yeh singh attachment is a sin... kaam krodh lobh moh and hunkaar attachment is moh... but its one of the most difficult to get rid of....because probably the hardest part is accepting that you do suffer from it...just as with hunkaar... my conclusion...after everything i heard is that unless you yourself are 100% sure that dating will not hinder your sikhi in any way shape or form....then go ahead... i dont think that will apply to many people, and some of the people that think it does apply to them probably need 2 think long and hard... i could only see dating as a distraction... bt maybe our perception of dating is different.... if by dating you mean you do not do any activities that involve kaam no matter how slight then i consider it to be friendship.... but as soon as makin out gets involved then you've crossed the line, and your just in denial if you think your not wrong... i would be the 1st to laugh if sum1 sed you cnt talk to a girl or be friends with them....but with dating i dont think i could now, and neither do i think ne sikh shud... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KAAL Posted May 25, 2003 Report Share Posted May 25, 2003 Naam Biyassi - nuff respect to u bro, i know a lot of people in the same situation but havent cum online and said so, oh let me iratarte that cause ppl aint speakin up that there are people in the same situation. oh 1 last ting :twisted: WWWWWWWWWWHHHHHHHHHHHHHHOOOOOOOOOOOPPPPPPPPTTTYYYYYY WWWWWOOOOHHHHHHHHHHOOOOOOOOOOO :twisted: PAGE 7!!!!! didnt think we cud make it, thanx every1 of makin that dream a reality :wink: if you can help to hit it to page 8, pls dont hesitate to repeat something that has laready been said! :shock: :twisted: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jassa Posted May 26, 2003 Report Share Posted May 26, 2003 if it botherin u...dont read it... noones makin u! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted May 26, 2003 Report Share Posted May 26, 2003 WWWWWWWWWWHHHHHHHHHHHHHHOOOOOOOOOOOPPPPPPPPTTTYYYYYY WWWWWOOOOHHHHHHHHHHOOOOOOOOOOO :twisted: PAGE 7!!!!! didnt think we cud make it, thanx every1 of makin that dream a reality :wink: if you can help to hit it to page 8, pls dont hesitate to repeat something that has laready been said! :shock: :twisted: i think we should be aiming more to actually ending a discussion with a proper conclusion or stance, rather then lookin how many pages have been made Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KAAL Posted May 27, 2003 Report Share Posted May 27, 2003 a conclusion to this is simple, if u dnt nuff respect to ya if u do nuff respect to ya. sikhi isnt stiff, sikhi is life, and woteva any1 does is between the individual and guru, not no 1 else, if u are not sure ask mahraaj from your heart u will get the ansa, whether you wanna hear it or not you will get it. and jassa if my posts bother u dont read it, if i wanna have a laugh and say something that is true and sacry so be it, if the moderators dont want me to post then they an also say so, if they want t oremove my post they can also do so, (no 'dig' at moderators so no need to reply thanku, nor to jassa, i am just sayin) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
singh100 Posted June 4, 2003 Report Share Posted June 4, 2003 I have a girl friend who I love dearly. I have been with her for 4 years now and hopefully very soon we will be getting married. I dont see it as a crime that we are together. I beleive by being with her she has brought me more closer to sikhi. We havent done anything we would be ashamed off beacuse we do want to wait after marriage but not going to lie we have been tempted. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr §ingh Posted June 4, 2003 Report Share Posted June 4, 2003 WJKK WJKF jus read through it ALLL :shock: :shock: :shock: :shock: :shock: took me about 1 HOUR lol And I've noticed ppl trying 2 justify themself ersonally I agree Wiv My veer Jassa..... Why ppl Trying to Justify ?!?! Why not only follow Gurbani OR IF U CAN't don't try 2 give otha ppl ur OPNION WHICH IS "oolt" to Gurbani WEll SAide Jassa Ji da thing is dat I've ntoiced ppl repeating the same thin: personally i don't see anythin wrong with dating.... n e referance out of Gurbani - uhm NO!! GooD Quotes there Jassa BHaji...... //BHulla CHukka Maaf WJKK WJKF Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Undergroundsikhi Posted June 4, 2003 Report Share Posted June 4, 2003 I take it you got a g/f? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr §ingh Posted June 4, 2003 Report Share Posted June 4, 2003 I take it you got a g/f? who u speaking about.........me ?!?! uhm No i don't have a G/F......... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KAAL Posted June 4, 2003 Report Share Posted June 4, 2003 do u have a problem if he doesnt?? and he thinks there is nothing wrotng with dating? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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