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Are sikhs allowed to have girlfriends and boyfriends?


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A well written and simple response from 'Double edge' paaji/penji (lol sorri dno wat u r!) is what is needed!!

i advise all pro dating sikhs to read that!!

what are the punjh chors in sikhi??

Kaam krodh lobh moh and hunkaar....

kaam and moh!!!

lust and attachment to those that may not know...

we are meant to keep away from these..

i think its fairly obvious that we should try to avoid these situations...

if our parents are fine with us dating, then that is our parents gulthee!

also one singh wrote that sikhi is a natural religion without rules...

that is only the case toa point...sikhi too has boundaries you cannot cross

REHIT BINAA NAHI SIKH KEHAAVEH

without rehit you cannot call yourself a sikh...so if you still believe that sikhi doesnt have rules than sorry to burst your bubble..

In guru granth sahib it states EXPLICITLY, that the life of a true sikh is hard to follow as wooking across the edge of a khanda!!

this isnt easy people!! so lets not make it harder by having to compete with kaam and moh! ask any sant if he thinks dating is correct...or any learned singh if you dont believe in sants...

sikhs are different...were not the same as all the goreh!! and we shouldnt fit in...that is why we have our khalsa roop...our special image given to us by guru ji! we are supposed to set an example, not follow the trend..coz were the trends setters!! we have to follow the right path so others eventually follow the right path!!

REMEMBER THIS IS KALJUG!!!!

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If Kaam is so much bothering you then why doyou support getting married. Getting married and having sex with your wife you think is free of Kaam.

Treat all girls like your mothers and sisters and that is a good thing to do, but there is nothing wrong in falling in love with someone it is natural and Guru Nanak didnt enforce anything on anyone, since it is a natural path where a person develops natural. A friendship is good.

Yes, I do disagree with premartial sex, but I dont disagree with falling in love. Guru ji did not say anything against this. In Sikhism you will not see any such strong statements, becoz truth can not be defined by rules and codes of conduct such as 'dont do this . dont eat this. dont have gfs. its wrong. its evil".

Regarding Kaam.. that comes out of impure love and bad feelings.. Kaam is lust. .. falling in love is not. That is your own drawn up interpretaton that one should not have gfs.

tell me where Guru Ji wrote that one can not date??? tell me. show me.

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I thought Kaam was lust, there is a fine line with Lust and Love. If you can control your thougts and actions respecting the girl or boy enough then why not?

There are not too many out there who can lay to this claim, but there is nothing wrong in affection, especially if your whole intent is to get married. Better to find out who you are to get married to for some time rather than being lumbered with them can only be a good thing.

You are thejudge of your own Sikhi and how far you have progressed, if you feel that you can have a relationship with good intent without the kaam then go for it.

And for those who are saying that traditions were ture back then as they are true now, well my Grandfather got married when he was 13, so those who are willing to allow there lil sis get married at that age please dont let me hold you back contine with the traditons. Also common sense is such a virtue that some people cant seem to get a hold of. Being shaky on their own beliefs can be a dangerous thing. Especially if they can deal with a thought outside of their understanding.

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FAO Jassa, im a Paaji LOL (thought i'd better clear that up b4 anyone asks for my number LOL, kidding!)

So far as Sevak's comment goes abt lust and marriage.. i think the difference is obvious.. u'd have love for whoever ur married to, as opposed to the lust u feel for some random woman (which is just animal instinct, and love doesnt even come into it). and if we really want to take the gloves off and get into it, then some friends of mine were told by some Chardi Kallaa Gurmukhs that even after marriage, Gurmukhs only do those certain things for the purpose of procreation, which is part of living in Ghristi (as Gursikhs must), as opposed to the obvious recreational applications..

again, that was VERY hard for manmukhs like me to hear.. but i guess that just comes down to how immersed each individual is into their Guru and his Naam.. if a Gurmukh is intent on being up at 3am to do his or her Nitnem and Simran at Amrit vela, then they'd need to have had a good nights sleep (thats abt as crudely as im gonna put it here, but we all know what im talkin abt!).. whereas manmukhs like myself, who hardly ever do their Nitnem anyway will probably be less worried abt that.

if we look at it from a common sense standpoint, then we would see that "love" is often Kaam using the soft touch to get into the system. If u "love" someone, then u probably want to spend alot of time with them.. u want to be close to them. that love n closeness may manifest itself in holding hands, and giving the object of ur affection a hug.. now that we're hugging, whats wrong with a little kiss? its not kaam after all, its love! lol.. u can see where it leads.

as for Sevaks other question, where he demanded that he be shown an anti dating quote from Mahraj.. well, for a start, the idea of living a life of Ghristi and being monogomous negates the dating theory outright. im not going to pretend i know enuf Baani to quote u anything directly, but without meaning to sound disrespectful, i dont think u'd accept it even if i did, cos thats not what u want to hear.i feel i can say this cos im EXACTLY the same.. alot of the time i dont want to hear it cos i want to live my way, and im scared of hearing that im not right.. but deep in my heart i know when im wrong, as we all do.

im nobody to preach, as we all have the same feelings and we all have to some degree a Manmukh side to us (people like me have more than most). but to try and justify our Manmukhi by trying to outwit each other and use Bani/Reht etc to justify our own ends? please my freinds, lets not go there. if anyone decides that they want to hook up, thats their business. how far they go int heri relationship is also their own business. but nobody has any business trying to justify it to the rest of the world and potentially influence others to follow their example. i'd save it for when u have to justify urself to ur Guru.

As we are told so BLATANTLY in Anand Sahib

"Aisaa Kaam Mooleh Na Keejeh, Jit Ant Pachotaiyeh"

"Dont EVER do any such deed, that you will regret in the end" (i.e when u must face ur Guru)

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Listen paaji….

Where did you get that sikhi doesn’t have any rules??

What are guru ji’s rehitnamas then??

Were they not instructing his Sikhs what to do??

If we don’t have rules then why do are we told not to commit the bujjhar kurreihts wen we take amrit…

Which interpretation have you taken that says sikhi doesn’t have rules!!

Although I said this in my previous post I think it needs to be said again….

Rehit bina naa sikh kehaveh…

Rehit is the rules which a sikh must abide by…its his lifestyle….

You are very right sikhi is not a religion..it’s a lifestyle…we have been told how to live by guru ji and we should follow that…The Guru Granth sahib isn’t a pick and mix where you choose what to follow…

What thing I notciced that people think is that they believe all of sikhi to be all lovely and happy and things…but the consequences of being a bad person are sometimes neglected… read the following quote for example…

bwkI vwlw qlbIAY isir mwry jMdwru jIau ]

baakee vaalaa thulubeeai sir maarae ju(n)dhaar jeeo ||

One who has a karmic debt to pay off is summoned, and the Messenger of Death smashes his head.

Give me any gurbani quotes that say we don’t need to follow rules….

Ill give you a few that tell us what we shouldn’t do….

maal kai maanai roop kee sobhaa eith bidhhee junum guvaaeiaa ||1|| rehaao ||

Translation:You are wasting this life in the pride of wealth and the splendor of beauty

Guru ji is TELLING us its wrong!!

Paaji name me any mahapurash that would condone dating under any circumstances!!

Here guru ji is telling us not to dance around

paakhand bhagat nirat dukh hoye|| (Ang 365)

bhagat kareh moorakh aap janaaveh || Nach nach tappe bohat dukh paaveh|| (Ang 159)

nacheye tappeye bhagat naa hoye || Shabad marey bhagat paaye jan soye ||(Ang 159)

hor nuchunaa khuseeaa mun maah ||1|| rehaao || (Ang 352)

Natak Chetak kare kukaaja, prabh logan kau aave laaja....

and agaion im going to repeat!!!

REHIT BINA NAA SIKH KEHAVAI!!!

i dont mean to be rude or offensive...im sorry bcoz im starting to think its turning out like that....just that what im trying to say is...as Double edge paaji sed above

if you or i have a weakness...lets not try and influence others to think it is right...this isnt what guru ji would have wanted...

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Wow, thats all i can say been readin these posts, and u guys have put sum quotes up from mahraaj.

maal kai maanai roop kee sobhaa eith bidhhee junum guvaaeiaa ||1|| rehaao ||

Translation:You are wasting this life in the pride of wealth and the splendor of beauty

=lust

"Aisaa Kaam Mooleh Na Keejeh, Jit Ant Pachotaiyeh"

"Dont EVER do any such deed, that you will regret in the end"

=lust

so blatently LUST not luv,

LUST = u F**K up their life aswell as ur own based soley on looks, reputation etc

LUV = the person u get to knw and from ur heart wana spend the rest of ur life wid!

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if we really want to take the gloves off and get into it, then some friends of mine were told by some Chardi Kallaa Gurmukhs that even after marriage, Gurmukhs only do those certain things for the purpose of procreation, which is part of living in Ghristi (as Gursikhs must), as opposed to the obvious recreational applications..

This is the way an Ideal Sikh should live and it is true that this type of lifestyle is True and Correct, but Sikhism is not Brahmanism where it will set rules and enforce all these things on its disciples. Everybody is working at their own pace and they will ripe at their own pace, therefore if a Sikh evey by mistake has sex out of kaam it can still be forgiven, because a Sikh is a disciple and a disciple can make mistakes.

Regarding Love... For one devotee to date or marry anohter devotee and get married is very healthy , this is a very good relation as this will make good sadh-sangat with one another and both will help one another. A helping hand, a suport, someone to talk to is really nice. There is nothing wrong on this type of things.

The rest of the people who simply come and say "You are not a sikh if you date. YOu are not allowed to have sex other than procreation and it is wrong ..bla bla bla." All of these people are fanatics and are actually preaching Brahmanimical ideals. Sikhi is a natural religion and the person progress naturally step by step, nothing should be forced on somone which cant be done and no one should be banned for dating some girl. It all depends on how much wise the person is and how much spiritually developed the person is. Only God knows this and the Sikh should be concerned only with himself and what is right for him.

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LUST = u F**K up their life aswell as ur own based soley on looks, reputation etc

LUV = the person u get to knw and from ur heart wana spend the rest of ur life wid!

Not everyone is a F**K up, Dating doesnt mean having sex and making kids only. Sometimes relations go beyond that and they become spiitual connections.

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Wen u wid sum1 and its lust, u tell me wot else u do if u dnt F**k their life aswell as urs, dont b so nieve to think its sex and kids, its in general, wud u wanna marry a girl who has been checkin x amount of guys, i knw i wudnt and if u sayin u wud, gud on ya, trus me there aint many of u out there, and if like me u urself hav been out wid x amount of girls (years bak mind u) and still want a girl who aint been out or nufin wid no1 then ur a hypocrite, trus me there r loads of us out there, at the end of day it cums dwn to izzat, and if u aint got that then no1 wants to knw u let alone get married to u. So wen its luv, everythin is taken into consideration, u do everyfin u do wid izzat, not wen its lust, cause in those situations u dnt care whos watchin and wot ppl think. b4 u ansa if u been there and done that then cum bak to me otherwise dnt botha, yes i hav thats y i am sayin.

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allow me to translate some of Sevak Paajis comments:

This is the way an Ideal Sikh should live and it is true that this type of lifestyle is True and Correct

"i know whats right"

but Sikhism is not Brahmanism where it will set rules and enforce all these things on its disciples

"but i dont have to do it"

The rest of the people who simply come and say "You are not a sikh if you date. YOu are not allowed to have sex other than procreation and it is wrong ..bla bla bla." All of these people are fanatics and are actually preaching Brahmanimical ideals.

"if u argue with me ur not a Sikh, ur a Brahmin"

nothing should be forced on somone which cant be done and no one should be banned for dating some girl

"im gonna carry on as before without taking account of anything thats been discussed, i dont care if its right or not, and im gonna keep promoting my view despite what Mahraj may say".

Paaji, im all for freedom of choice. thats not whats in question here. an im not ina position to preach coz do i follow all the rules? not by a longshot.. do i want maya and wordly comforts? ABSOLUTELY! am i a Manmukh? YOUD BETTER BELEIVE IT (infact im thinkin of changin my nick to Manmukh coz i think it suits me)..

BUT, if I choose to do something against Mahraj's teachings, then i should have to courage to stand up and say "yeah, im a Manmukh, i want maya, i want worldly pleasures, and these are MY views, no one elses" as opposed to try to use any and all means to justify myself..

as far as forcing rules is concerned, we're not arguing abt enforcing anything. our Gurus prescribed us a path through the blazing inferno of Kaam Krodh Lobh Moh Hankaar and Maya that is this world. they warned us that if we stray we'd pay the price and get burned (examples can be found in Jassa Paaji's quotes). if we choose not to follow the rules and are willing to risk burning, then thats our own individual business.. but what ur effectively saying is "rules are optional, so i wont get burned"..

on a personal one to one level, im not really too fussed wether ur dating anyone. thats ur business.. but if one of my brothers/sisters, anyone i know or anyone that comes on here seeking to further their understanding reads what u've written and thinks that justifies their lives, then U would be answerable for misrepresenting Mahraj.. (and i wouldnt want to have to explain that to Mahraj.. im in enuff deep shit as it is LOL)

in conclusion all i can say is this: Acknowledge what is right and wrong, acknowledge what we're taught.. then make ur decisions.. do what u want, but please dont try to promote a "new and improved" Sikhi for today.. coz thats not something any of us are qualified to do..

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some friends of mine were told by some Chardi Kallaa Gurmukhs that even after marriage, Gurmukhs only do those certain things for the purpose of procreation, which is part of living in Ghristi (as Gursikhs must), as opposed to the obvious recreational applications.

Sorry for my ignorance but must have missed this post, baba i gotta disagree wid u here, for procreation and soley for procreation, from how i understood it was u do wid ur mrs is urs and ur mrs business, no1 else, this thing about soley for procreation is utter crap, 1 of the reasons u live in grishti in the time of kaljug is to get get rid of kaam, if u d oit soley for procreation i am sorry but logically that will jus make u a more kaami person, (sorry to use the pun) its like havin ur cake and not eatin it. u cant go round sayin we get married to soley procreate!

Wot u think sikhi is, a human makin factory?? wot u think we are? Robots?

u watch star trek?? i think u been watchin too much, u beginin to sound like the borg. 'u will b assimlated! ressitance is futile'

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wjkk,wjkf

dear maha akal;

You said it you treat them with same "respect as bros, sisters, mum and dads"

What about the one you marry? what happens then?

reguarding this question all i have to say is the following:

the point of treating sum1 with same respect as a bro / sis simply means to treat them with a certain amount of curtesy & putting up certain restrictions to ur involvement with them ( ie u wouldn't flirt with ur own bro or sis would u?! :shock: ) obviously this boundry doesn't apply to ur spose (husband / wife) but that is only with one special sum1.

Where your evidance we can'nt enter "premarital activities b4 marriage"

reguarding the evidence needed from which my conclusions have been drawn plz pay attention to jasaa veer jis 2 posts on page 2 of this descussion as he explains it very well:

both post dates on Sat May 03

wjkk,wjkf

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FAO Kaal.

once again, this is a classic example of someone not wanting to hear something. it was as hard for me to hear as it is for u, beleive me, and i dont see many people, myself included, from adhering to it. but that goes for alot of things.I think my previous post sums it up...

this argument will probably never be settled as we simply dont want to hear that certain things are wrong. so im just gonna sum it up in what will be my final post on this thread.

you used the example of the Borg from star trek.. i suppose u would use the same analogy for someone who gets up at 3am to do their Nitnem, or someone who does Naam Simran and Mool Mantar as they walk around/sit on a train etc. I guess u'd have to be some kind of robot to have love first and foremost for ur Guru, and to try supress Kaam Krodh Lobh Moh and Hankaar.. coz without those things, ur a robot right? :P

Mahraj tells us "Gurmukh thorra bolna, ghat sohna, ghat khaana"

a Gurmukh says little. Sleeps little, and eats little, ie does not live a life of indulgence. so dyou see a Gurmukh, who says little as hes busy doing his Simran and living in nimerta, who sleeps little as he wants to do his Nitnem at the optimum time (Amrit vela), who only eats to feul his body as opposed to go flipmode on sugary and fatty foods and grow a gut, dyou see that Gurmukh indulging in that sort of recreation?

what it comes down to is that most of us are manmukhs, and we come here hoping to find justification for how we live our lives. i think enough has been said on the subject, and those that dont want to hear it wont take it on board. the truth, invariably is a bitter pill to swallow...

in any case, i think this whole thread is a dead end that will never end and we'll all stick to our guns.. i would in conclusion to re-iterate that i am not a Gurmukh like the ones described.. im simply a Manmukh who, as difficult as it often is, tries to absorb the words of our Guru and his Gurmukhs.. i may not live by his rules, but i'd be an even bigger fool to deny is word out right.

all the best to all of u.. im off to see my girlfriend (LOL, just windin u all up!)

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just back from seeing my girlfriend (just winding you up all up! :P)

:)

Baba i like wot you have to say, but disagree strongly with some of your wording, 'surpress' i really dont like that word at all, and it isn't in sikhi anywhere, we dont need to 'supress' anything, we need to learn to control not to supress. one of the most direct ways to control ur kaam, is marraige (not jus me sayin but nuff bajrugs (old people) in da gurdwara sayin it).

Now you have to see these bajurgs are coming to the end of their lives, everything you are goin to see tommorow they are saw last week! listen to them and learn, they dont just say these things randomly and becasue it is the thing to say, its because they have been through it so they know. You cant touch these Bajurgs on practical knowledge about life, cause we are all still in theroies, while they have done the practical and just packing up their stuff to leave the classroom.

I am a great fan of star trek, a very very very big fan of star trek something i knw about the borg they have no heart, they just supress all the weakness where no one can find them as in the enemy. why cant they defeat the humans, they r superior in everyway, they have absorbed knwoledge of countless lifeforms they even know about the humans, there gentic makeup the skmatics of there ships, but why cant they ever beat them, because they have heart, passion, they feel.

you used the example of the Borg from star trek.. i suppose u would use the same analogy for someone who gets up at 3am to do their Nitnem, or someone who does Naam Simran and Mool Mantar as they walk around/sit on a train etc. I guess u'd have to be some kind of robot to have love first and foremost for ur Guru, and to try supress Kaam Krodh Lobh Moh and Hankaar.. coz without those things, ur a robot right?

Yes i would most definatly class them as borg aswell if it wasnt for 1thing u mentioned LOVE,they r not borg, the feel, they have passion, they have qualties far beyond borg technology.

you mentioned the 5 vices, you do seva, simran, you give daswand, why do you do that? it isnt to supress your feelings, its there to make you understand what these feelings are, and how you cant control it.

i also agree to you saying this is a dead thread where every1 sticks to their guns. as long as you have sharda and pyaar in your heat then ask mahraaj wot he thinks, he will put you on the path you need to follow

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ummmm robots???? :? :? lol

well u ask any person who wakes up at amrit vela - does his japji/mool mantar/panj baaniya watever - recites gods name on every step - breath - they dont do it cos they have to - they do it cos they want to.... theres a big difference there

a robot is someone who is controlled - someoen who has no control over their actions.... true sikhs are people lay their head down and say they want to give up all their actions which they can do - and be controlled by wahegurus name day in and day out :wink:

fateh

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For ppl who think it is kay to date b4 marriage - this is my view...

Dating leads to an amount of pride - cus u wnt to luk gud.

Then there is lust - the attraction

say if u had an argument - leads to anger

The rest will follow...

If u leave ur parents to it... GuruJi will bless u.

Kaljug is gettin so strong..

Bak in the day, it used to be in the form of army and fighting...

STill is to a certain extent now... but now we get kaljug in our uni's, skools, streets....

Just the fact this debate is even happening - shows Kaljug is trying to justify dating b4 marriage as a possibilty....

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." All of these people are fanatics and are actually preaching Brahmanimical ideals.

since when did gurmat ideals become brahmin ideals...

if your saying that we should all live to accept the western world and their way of life than i think you should check ur interpretation of sikhi...

we are not them and they are not us...

we are the khalsa...we are different...and lets stay different...as guru ji told us...

dont blend with the crowd...its not what we are!!

we are supposed to be the 'pure one'. pure ones dont look at their sister as a possible way to get jiggy...

Now sangat ji....

i wanna know how many of you think this quote is acceptable for a sikh....

Everybody is working at their own pace and they will ripe at their own pace, therefore if a Sikh evey by mistake has sex out of kaam it can still be forgiven, because a Sikh is a disciple and a disciple can make mistakes.

ok i heard what you have to say about that....now i wanna see what sum1 whos opinion actually matters has to say about it...

guru ji says

purub kumaanae shhoddehi naahee jumudhooth graasiou mehaa bhaeiaa ||2||

Translation:Your past actions will not just go away; the most horrible Messenger of Death shall seize you. ||2||

Pannaa: 900 Line:10

kaam still dont matter???

thought not...

and kaal according to gurmat thought....double edge is rite about the procreation ting...hard as it is 2 accept for people like me....but hey! guru ji didnt say that sikhi was easy...

sewak....go and read this shabad....

aree baaee gobidh naam math beesurai || rehaao ||

O sister, do not forget the Name of the Lord of the Universe. ||Pause||

anth kaal jo eisuthree simurai aisee chi(n)thaa mehi jae murai ||

At the very last moment, he who thinks of women, and dies in such thoughts,

baesuvaa jon val val aouthurai ||2||

shall be reincarnated over and over again as a prostitute

look please dont influence other people...

ive provided you with loads of quotes to try and prove my point...and i dont even have a great knowlege on gurbani...

give me one quote which says about this natural progressive sikhi woth no rules...

OKAY BEFORE ARGUING WITH ANYTHING I HAVE TO SAY....

ANSWER ME ONE QUESTION

WHY DID GURU JI WROTE

rehinee rehai soee sikh maeraa ||

ouh t(h)aakur mai ous kaa chaeraa ||

REHITH BINAA(N) NEHI SIKH KEHAAVAI ||

rehith binaa(n) dhur chottaa(n) khaavai ||

rehith binaa(n) sukh kubuhu(n) n lehae

TAHT MEANS WITHOUT ADHERING TO THE LIFESTYLE OF A THE KHALSA HE CANNOT CALL HIMSELF SIKH!!!!!

so by you saying oh dont worry sikhi is all happy do what you want and we're all fruits who get ripe or wateva u sed....it aint tru!!!

if you have luv for guru ji you will follow what he told you to do...no questions asked!!!

purub kumaanae shhoddehi naahee jumudhooth graasiou mehaa bhaeiaa ||2||

Translation:Your past actions will not just go away; the most horrible Messenger of Death shall seize you

Chittar gupt records your every action and thought ppl, and it is given to sharam raaj who will pass judgemnt on you!!!

Guru Tegh Bahadur Ji told us that we shouldnt enter the bed of another woman even in a dream!!

even sants are prone to make mistakes...only guru ji is perfect...

how arrogant of some of you to say that " oh i dont think ill fall victim to the 5 chorhs!! im mentally strong enough to resist them"

sewak im asking you to stop misleading ppl....sikhi has consequences...and you will be blamed if you convince someone the wrong path!!

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well sed jassa.

Id like to see sum1 have a coe bak on that 1!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

:D

We need more ppl like u in this world... with sum actuall sense!!!!!

Very inspiring

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Although the ideal life style of a sikh should be to have sex only for procreation and this is the ideal I myself want to follow, but to say that smeone who doesnt live with this ideal is wrong is completely incorrect !

It all comes down to how much spiritually developed a person is and you cant draw iron pillar rules that say that if you dont do this and that you are wrong.

The ideal of marrying only for procreation is a brahmanical ideal, so is the idea of brahmacharya and there is nothing wrong in it, its cool, but Guru Nanak never enforced such things on his disciples, since Sikhi is a natural path and slower the fruit ripes the better it tastes !

This is why the Gurus did not say any such things. They talked about Kaam which is evil but they didnt tell to marry only for procreation or become celibate or not to date. They talked about food but they didnt tell to stop eating this type of food and that type of food, because it all depends on the spiritual developement of the individual. You cant just pump it on anyone you like !

Lastly, I dont see anything wrong with dating, but a Sikh should nto have premaritial sex or anything like that. If by dating you mean sex and flirting then I am against it, but if by dating you mean just falling in love and having someone's company and planning to marry.. then that is okay and good !

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Jassa,

I agree wit the shabad and it is true that Kaam will make you evil and stuff. Now I want to ask what is wrong if one devotee wants to date and marry another girl who is also a devotee, what can be a better match than this?

For me I will only date the girl whom I know I will marry and even if I do date.. I wont have premartial sex.

Yes Kaam is bad and I agree.. but I just want to tell you that not all datings and love affairs have to do with sex and kaam, In the case of devotees it is just different. It is like a company or patner you both help one another in your quest of God.

Lastly, I fully agree with the ideal for having sex for procreation, but we should not make this is as a general 'rule' in Sikhism, because Sikhism is against 'Kaam' and Sikhism is a path for everyone and all types of people and a person will naturally reach where he has to reach.

Finally, our fight is against Kaam, Karodh, Lab, Moh, Ahankaar not the way we live. A true devotee is a person who lives in the world naturally and like everyone, he talks and acts like everyone , but inside his heart he is always thinking about God.

There is no general universal rule that applies to everyone. In religions like Islam they say "Do this and that otherwise we will kill you." In Christainity they say that not all priests are to marry. It is because of these General Universal Rules that creates fights. Sikhism doesnt set such rules. Sikhism is a form of religion which can fit anyone and everyone, it is a flexible religion where a person can work at his own pace and speed to grow spiritually and eventuall overcome the 5 evils.

We are sikhs so let us stay as sikhs(students) and let the Guru decided and judge, because the Guru is the teacher. We should do what feels best for us, but what may feel best for us may not feel best for another person, because they are at different spiritual levels.

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u keep mentioning this ripening slowly and lack of rules in sikhi....

im starting to think theres no point discussing this coz your not answering me...

all im trying to say is....if you feel it ok to date...then go ahead do it...im noone to tell you otherwise....

but what i would say is....people may not be at as high a spiritual level as you whereby they can control their kaam and control their moh...

so by justifying dating to them you are wrong....

i dont think i can control myself like that....one thing moves to another...

im not just saying this...ive dun my fair share of wrong things and the one thing that i realised at the end of it is that we should try to avoid situations whereby kaam will attack us...

That is why Guru Ji told us to keep good sangat...so we are not led astray...that is why its not good when sikhs are seen at a club...

if you have the ability to put these 5 chorhs, who are infinitely clever, at the back of your mind than all i can say is that i envy you.

Sants and Mahapurashs keep away from things like these so that they dont lose their sikhi...but if you are at a greater stage wheeby you are able to confront these situations then hey! Your perfect!!

one thing you keep saying is this lack of rules in sikhi...give me proof of this...coz i think there are rules in sikhi...

as shown by guru ji's use of rehitnamas...

and our rehit maryada given by the punjh pyareh who are our guru!

why do so many sikhs carry out peshi if there is no rules?? they broke them, and so they are asking for forgiveness for them....

Forget everything i have said....

just explain to me where you got this idea of sikhi being liek a ripening fruit, whereby you cann commit kaam and for it to still be okay??

that means that when guru ji told us that the life of a sikh is as hard to keep to as the edge of a khanda isnt true...

and i swear to you guru ji doesnt contradict himself!!

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:cry:

i think this 1 is hard to put in words cuz ppl will take it differently. Which is exactly my point.

Every1 is different. Personally, i think living a strict life is quite important. Discussing things like this i have been brought up as "uynnecessarry".

Hu else is better to chose u a wife, urself or ur GuruJi???

I know that might sound harsh, but if u let ur parents chose... then isnt that the chooice of GuruJi??

If u had control of ur 5 Chor... and think that u cud control ur lust etc... then wudnt u b propa BrahmGiani.........

If u can contrlo all 5, uve reached a "next level" - in which case u wudnt be even questioning this subject.

I dnt know.

If ppl start beleiveing its okay to date b4 marriage - WRONG!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Wud GuruJi date b4 marriage?

Just like clubs and stuff.

Wud u ever find GuruJi in clubs or pubz?????

SOrry 4 any offecene taken.

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