Guest Javanmard Posted May 3, 2004 Report Share Posted May 3, 2004 If you guys had actually read my posts you would know that I actually follow Maharaj's hukam. If you guys can't be asked to read posts written in simple plain English then I am sorry but I'll leave it there! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jamuka Posted May 3, 2004 Report Share Posted May 3, 2004 The Gurus were NOT God! Stop Hindunizing Sikhism with your Hindu garbage! Sikhs are not supposed to even have a single picture of the Gurus. The Gurus have made explicitly clear that their role on is to spread the word of God (Waheguru). If in your heart you have put your praise to the Gurus as opposed to Waheguru, then you have failed as a Sikh. Why do Hindus have to always need some sort of idol to worship God? Why do they constantly try 'idolising' Saints/Gurus/Prophets claiming they're 'avatars' or Vishnu incarnates? Fool, when will you wakeup and see the truth? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted May 3, 2004 Report Share Posted May 3, 2004 Oiiii baba Jamukha ji, Stop under-estimating guroo maharaj ji.. In Sikhi god has two forms- go on search on this forum: Sargun And Nirgun Then come back and debate Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
vaapaaraa Posted May 3, 2004 Report Share Posted May 3, 2004 why do we argue, whats the point and what will we get at the end of this discussion. Ik Onkar Satgur Parsad You will realize the Infinite only with the Gurus Grace Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hari Posted May 3, 2004 Report Share Posted May 3, 2004 The Gurus were NOT God! Stop Hindunizing Sikhism with your Hindu garbage! Sikhs are not supposed to even have a single picture of the Gurus. The Gurus have made explicitly clear that their role on is to spread the word of God (Waheguru). If in your heart you have put your praise to the Gurus as opposed to Waheguru, then you have failed as a Sikh. Why do Hindus have to always need some sort of idol to worship God? Why do they constantly try 'idolising' Saints/Gurus/Prophets claiming they're 'avatars' or Vishnu incarnates? Fool, when will you wakeup and see the truth? You are the fool, fool. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jjj Posted May 3, 2004 Report Share Posted May 3, 2004 Most people here are just caught up in there intellects/rational/logical reasonging. Sargun and Nirgun Gods..... ---> There is no such thing. God is God. Not be understood in contexts of "nirgun" "sargun" and those who say they follow the Guru's Hukam are Not actually following it. and there are others who will just criticise the hindus and slander sikhs for keeping pics of Guru Jis and worshipping them. Well okay, I got a pic of Gur HarKrishan on my table and I always pray to it ! calli t hindu, call it wrong or call it against hukam. BUT... Guru jee dont care about these things ! Guru Jee only care about Love and only Love in the devotee and Guru jee sees how simple a devotee is . The more simple you are the more acceptable you are and if you are reading books and trying to copy from them and do samethings.. then you are not being yourself. In this path you have to be yourself. as for Rupz talking about reading from the Sri Dasam Granth. I told you that the BANI of Guru is Brahm ! You can NOT understand by reading, contemplating or getting into intellectual war ! The Bani is ONLY understood by people who are in One with God ! Those who people are in One with God dont even have to read, they already know it from before, they dont even have to learn kirtan, tabla, harmonium, ... becoz then they automatically know all these things... while other ppl are only wasting these things. Kal Yug once said to Guru Nanak that Kal Yug will mislead people by showing them criticisin in the bani of bhagats and thus making them do sin and this is what I actually see some people doing it. criticising and falling in the maya trap Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jamuka Posted May 3, 2004 Report Share Posted May 3, 2004 Only a fool will argue with a fool so in conclusion I'll let you be. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hari Posted May 3, 2004 Report Share Posted May 3, 2004 Only a fool will argue with a fool so in conclusion I'll let you be. Good boy. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted May 3, 2004 Report Share Posted May 3, 2004 as for Rupz talking about reading from the Sri Dasam Granth. I told you that the BANI of Guru is Brahm ! You can NOT understand by reading, contemplating or getting into intellectual war ! The Bani is ONLY understood by people who are in One with God ! Thats why we worship Waheguru to get the oneness with Waheguru. Worshipping Naam we get the knowlegde of the Vedas, this is what Guru Ji says. I never used to understand kirtan still dont, but im trying to learn but i do think i understand Naam, but Guru Jis says that we can't understand Waheguru fully. It is Waheguru who sent all the prophets to this world. And because there souls are directly from Waheguru, there is no mayl on there souls. All the people chatting here including me have come from lakh chouraaseeh so we got loads of mayl on our souls, the only way we can get rid of the mayl from our previous incarnations is by Naam Jaaping and if we feel ready, by taking Amrit, by taking Amrit you'll be judge by this life only. Kal Yug once said to Guru Nanak that Kal Yug will mislead people by showing them criticisin in the bani of bhagats and thus making them do sin and this is what I actually see some people doing it. criticising and falling in the maya trap Naam is a boat that will sail through Kalyug. Plus i just wanna make one thing clear about wot i believe. I dont believe in idol worship. I worship only the formless. I dont believe our Gurus' are Waheguru, its like saying Jesus is The Waheguru. Our Gurus are slaves to Waheguru (I dont mean this is a inhuman way) because our Gurus have said so. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Harmless Posted May 3, 2004 Report Share Posted May 3, 2004 Jamuka, I agree with your posts, if there is anything I can't stand, that is distortion of the truth and gutless people, who despite their own heroic history refuse to see the truth for what it is. May Waheguru show us the truth! May Waheguru show muslims the right path, and that is respect and tolerance of all infidels! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted May 3, 2004 Report Share Posted May 3, 2004 Yes i agree with you, im gutless, im nothing, am a fool, im the same fool that Guru Ji talks about. Please Waheguru forgive me, teach me to follow the tru path. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jamuka Posted May 4, 2004 Report Share Posted May 4, 2004 as for Rupz talking about reading from the Sri Dasam Granth. I told you that the BANI of Guru is Brahm ! It is clearly stated in the Japji that Brahma, Vishnu and Parbati are Gods creations. Only fools regard them as God not realising that the true lord is behind their creation. Harmless, we need more Sikhs like you. Many here have become complacent replacing Waheguru with their God of 'Political Correctness'. Let them be and only time will tell who is ignorant and who isn't.BTW did you hear about the latest spate of violence created by the members of this so called 'religion of peace' in Southern Thailand? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Javanmard Posted May 4, 2004 Report Share Posted May 4, 2004 as predicted none of you guys have actually cared about reading my posts carefully before accusing me of brining "Hindu garbarg" (whatever that is!). I am leaving the discussion! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted May 4, 2004 Report Share Posted May 4, 2004 'Mitti Musalman ki peirei paee kumiar; Ghar bhandei itan kia, jaldi karei pukar.' (Asa Mohalla 1, p-466) 'The ashes of the Mohammadan fall into the potter's clod; Vessels and bricks are fashioned from them; they cry out as they burn.' (Translation of the above) Mohammadan falls into the potter's clod. Mohammadan leaves this world and goes back to the potter's clod (The potter is Waheguru (God) the one who moulded Mohammadan from birth, the one who moulds use from birth, the eternal Waheguru). Vessels and bricks are made of clay. When we die our skin turns to clay then some people use clay to make bricks? Only the skin gets left behind. The soul is infinite and goes back to the potter's clod (Waheguru). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mission_Impossible Posted May 4, 2004 Report Share Posted May 4, 2004 God is infinite and unlimited, our Guru's were finite and limited human beings, NOT God! SGGS says that God does not come in human form, I can't even understand why you guys are even discussing it, there's an old saying which says "Argue with a fool and you have already lost the argument", think about that... Kind Regards, MI Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Javanmard Posted May 4, 2004 Report Share Posted May 4, 2004 OH "limited human beings"? Is this the way a SIkh talks about Maharaj! What a shame! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted May 4, 2004 Report Share Posted May 4, 2004 God can not be nominated or born from a mother. I've just edited my previous post. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mission_Impossible Posted May 4, 2004 Report Share Posted May 4, 2004 OH "limited human beings"? Is this the way a SIkh talks about Maharaj! What a shame! The shame is on you for being totally ignorant of the SGGS, which is our living Guru, the Guru's were the greatest human beings that ever lived but they were NOT God, they said so themselves, also please make use of an English dictionary, the Guru's were limited, only God is unlimited. You talk like a deluded Hindu dude, making totally unscientific, irrational and illogical posts which make Sikhism look stupid. :roll: Kind Regards, MI Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Javanmard Posted May 4, 2004 Report Share Posted May 4, 2004 Mission Impossible wrote: You talk like a deluded Hindu dude, making totally unscientific, irrational and illogical posts which make Sikhism look stupid Do you feel insecure about Sikhi? If God is unlimited then he can manifest himself in the form of our ten Gurus. That is logic! You are the one who is limiting God not me!!! btw I am not a Hindu!!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted May 4, 2004 Report Share Posted May 4, 2004 God can manifest anything but manifested things are not infinite. God manifested the Sun but worshippers thought the Sun was God, the Sun will loss its engery because its a part of Maya. Us Humans are also a manifestion of Waheguru, our skin is finite, our skin is part of Maya too but our soul is infinite because Waheguru is inside of us. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mission_Impossible Posted May 4, 2004 Report Share Posted May 4, 2004 Mission Impossible wrote: You talk like a deluded Hindu dude, making totally unscientific, irrational and illogical posts which make Sikhism look stupid Do you feel insecure about Sikhi? If God is unlimited then he can manifest himself in the form of our ten Gurus. That is logic! You are the one who is limiting God not me!!! btw I am not a Hindu!!! SGGS says that God does not come in human form, are you saying that the SGGS is wrong? Also, I am not limiting God, I am talking facts, I didn't say that God cannot, I said God DOES NOT, come in human form, there is no limitation being applied here to the nature of almighty God. God can do anything, but choses NOT to, as it would break his own laws. How can you write an endless (infinite) story on one (limited) sheet of paper? Now why would an infinite God become limited? Kind Regards, MI Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Javanmard Posted May 4, 2004 Report Share Posted May 4, 2004 Strangely enough I heard the same argument from Muslim and Arya Samaji fundamentalist! Janab sahib ap to mujhe farmaye ki ap khuda ke hukam jante hain? mujhe malum hota hai ki apko ilm e ghayab ata hai?lol Par yeh ek taklif hai ki main dusron poston mein dekhaya ki Adi Guru Granth Sahib mein avtarvad shamal hota hai. Ap mere posts parye aur dekhye! Main Musalman nahin our Arya Samji bhi nahin hun! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jamuka Posted May 5, 2004 Report Share Posted May 5, 2004 Mohammadan falls into the potter's clod. Mohammadan leaves this world and goes back to the potter's clod (The potter is Waheguru (God) the one who moulded Mohammadan from birth, the one who moulds use from birth, the eternal Waheguru). Vessels and bricks are made of clay. When we die our skin turns to clay then some people use clay to make bricks? Only the skin gets left behind. The soul is infinite and goes back to the potter's clod (Waheguru). Thank you for your very 'politically correct' interpretation BUT, no thanks buddy! If you want to delude yourself, be my guest. Read about how Ram Rae gave a similar BS answer to the Muslims and how his father Har Rai refused to see him for not telling the truth. Ram Rae would be very proud of you my friend!! If God is unlimited then he can manifest himself in the form of our ten Gurus. That is logic! You are the one who is limiting God not me!!! btw I am not a Hindu!!! Can you please point out in the SGGS, Janamsakhis or any other Sikh literature thats states as such or the Gurus have stated as such? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted May 5, 2004 Report Share Posted May 5, 2004 No offense Jamuka but how im i deluding myself? Can you explain? Your the only one that hasn't tryed to put forward your understanding of this line. And yet when someone puts there understanding, you just blast them because we seem to have a different understanding to you. Now i bet im ganna get people ganging up on me now. Whats you understanding of this line: 'Mitti Musalman ki peirei paee kumiar; Ghar bhandei itan kia, jaldi karei pukar.' (Asa Mohalla 1, p-466) 'The ashes of the Mohammadan fall into the potter's clod; Vessels and bricks are fashioned from them; they cry out as they burn.' (Translation of the above) And what is this 'politically correctness' you always going on about? Come on Jamuka tells where your coming from. And i was the one that said about distortion of sikhi in the first place not Harmless or you. Go back and see what i said and look for my name RupZ not some other name and read it line by line. And for the last time, i dont think our Gurus' are God, im not Hinduising the whole topic. And i dont even know how this argument came my way? Plus i was quoting what JJJ said and not llalleshvari. I had the same idea as llalleshvari had!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jamuka Posted May 9, 2004 Report Share Posted May 9, 2004 Sorry Rupz if I have offended you in any way. But the verse by Guru Nanak Dev Ji is what it is meant to be. I suspect Guru Nanak read the Quran and realised what an ugly cult this is. e must've put that verse in so future generations may interpret as such. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Moderator Note: Jamuka, You are getting warning for posting your assumptions about Guru Nanak Dev Jee. Please, refrain from it next time. Guru Nanak Dev Jee preached Muslims to be good Muslims so don't defame his teachings. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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