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I hate poltics of Gurdwara. .

All it is is packed full of gossiping old ladies, langar that is never served with affection, Granthis thinking they are the almighty, and merely yapping making up Sakhis that are unheard of. What is the Gurdawar scene coming to. We got supposed Sikhs running tha Gurdwaras thinking its the houses of Parliament, fighting for control over the money, in which they never invest in the community. Whatever happened to the message of the Guru. Youngsters dont know whats going on, even when they are forced to go on the Sunday. Youngsters need to learn as do the adults! Only the hidden pockets have Sangat, hard to find, and the rest are lost or losing the plot. What can be done?

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i dont agree with ur opnion soo much. yeh their maybe ppl that go to the gurdwara that gossip, but that shouldn't stop nebody else listening to guru ji's bani. thats their mare karam if they gossip.

Granthis thinking they are the almighty, and merely yapping making up Sakhis that are unheard of. What is the Gurdawar scene coming to.

if granthis are making up bani that is paap on them, r u telling me that u know every sakhi, yeh they may b telling u sakhis that u have not heard but that is ur chance to learn.

We got supposed Sikhs running tha Gurdwaras thinking its the houses of Parliament, fighting for control over the money, in which they never invest in the community.

i agree with u on this to an extent, sometimes ppl just carried away with politics.

Youngsters dont know whats going on, even when they are forced to go on the Sunday. Youngsters need to learn as do the adults!

isn't sikhi about learning, we are all here to learn. alot of the time u will find kids are forced, but thats only b'coz our parents want us to know about Sikhi, if they didn't force us, how many kids would actually go??

alot of gurdwarae are doing things to help kids learn, such a sikhi camps, they even hold classes where ppl can learn more about the path we do everyday, this is for everybody.

its soo easy picking up the negatives but i think we have to look at what we have achieved. i know that the gurdwara i attend does soo much for the younger generations, holding gurmat classes, camps, involving all the kids in charity events. we do simran in the eve, esp for kids.

phul chuk marf karni

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i agree with kaur

yes there is allot of politics within gurdwaras - the commitees cause allot of hassle - a big example is the tables and chairs thing

look at soho rd - first they make a massive fuss about people sittin on the floor - then they brought the tables n chairs back in - on top of that peopel come in and eat langar with their shoes on.....

next thing u know - people will be comin into the darbaar sahib with shoes - they will argue that they want chairs to sit in there too!!!

and also - a very good point kaur - the post starter - do u know all the baanis.. and sakhis - im guessing u dont - so u cannot know if they are making anything up - no one can just make up a sakhi lol....

the granthis at my local gurdwara dont thikn they are almighty.... the head granthi is like the most humble man ever - i dont think u should go round generalising and throwin about accusations on people u hardly know

theres allot of apney people who have negative views against the gurdwara - ive heard many people say bad stuff about the gurdwara just for a laugh - its not a laughing matter - u say something bad about the gurdwara and ur sayin something bad about the path to waheguru

and as kaur mentioned - "even when they are forced"..... if osmeone forces u to do sometihng - wat is the chances u will do it with 100% commitment???..... very low - the path to sikhi is one u have to learn urself - everything is there for u - if u open ur eyes once to sikhi u will automatically be sucked into the path

the people who u should be blaming are peopple who talk bad about the gurdwara - if u dont like the gurdwara - theres chances u aint a very good sikh - sikhi is not about goin to the vaisaki mela cruisin in ur car - with a nishaan sahib hangin out

sikhi is about seva - about acceptance - about tolerance.... u comin here and sayin u hate the gurdwara is not tollerance..... if u dont like it - i wud like to see u run a gurdwara

u cannot go to a gurdwara sit there for 5 minutes on a sunday and know how a gurdwara is run - how people are - how the politics in gurdwaras works - and who is learning what - and who is learning nothing

u should be more worried about how u live ur own life - if u follow the sikh way of life - u complaining about how people in the gurdwarey are acting is not goin to help u - doin ur nitnem is goin to help u - doin seva is goin to help u - u shud be one of the people in the gurdwarey who people look at and say "that singh does so much seva"

i dont mean to lecture u - and i dont mean to offend u - im sorry if i did

fateh - bhul chuk maaf

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Although I disagree with the way Grewal worded his posting, I dont really disagree with the message.

Our gurdwaras now seem to have become temples of Ego with ppl vying to see whose Ego is biggest while the quiet sevadars who get on and do the job are forgotten - there is however an exeption i have seen to this growing trend which is the nishkam sevak jatha Gurdwara in birmingham where all the sevadars theer seem to be doing what they do out of love - however u can still c lackeys and ass lickers (excuse the language) saying a lot and doing a little around the place.

Being a comittee member is doing seva and these "pardhaans" should be humble and do there seva with humility rather than bigging themselves up 24/7.

As i keep saying Sikhi seems to be awash with ppl thinking that wearring a badge makes u suddenly a better person who lack the spirit of Sikhi but make up for it with copious amounts of hot air.

The more inviting and stimulating we make a gurdwara the more eager kids and youngsters will be to join in and learn about there heritage - half the sermos u see nopwadays are ppl with there own agendas kicking off regarding some cause or another.

The gurdwara should like the gurdwara comittee serve the sikh sangat who in tern serve the gurdwara and the comitee - its is a relaitionship of trust and communal spirit.

I dont see things changing quickly tho - and that saddens me deeply

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personally, i dont see politics ever being seperated from the Gurdware.. its just a sad fact of life..

i've seen the police called to Gurdware to contain potentially violent situations, and have even seen people going to fight each other in the darbar hall, and its all just one big power struggle, using the Guru's name to further their own interests. personally i think its best to stay away from such issues... even those with pure intientions either end up being drawn in or end up being pawns that are sacrificed on a political chessboard.

it saddens me to say that even amongst some of those Sikh youth who are getting involved and trying to play a part, it soon becomes apparent in their mannerisms and their actions that they too have started going down the same path and become dragged into the same mentalities as those comitee members and polititians we are discussing here today.. that is talking sweetly to all with a silver tongue while having a "use and abuse" policy when it comes to the sangat. you dont have to look far to see the comittee members of tomorrow right under your noses today.

those who do the real seva at the Guru Ghar are those doing Mahraj di Seva, Langar di Seva, Jorreya (shoes) di Seva, sweeping floors, cleaning the bathrooms and Japping Mahraj's naam. and im sure those people are the most beloved of our Guru, rather than the folks who are after the spotlight, making money and giving long winded speeches in Mahraj's presence that often end with an appeal for the building fund.

all i can say to my friend who made the first post is this: Go to the Gurdwara to see your Guru. then leave. if what you see around u bothers u that much (and i cant blame u), then go a times when nobody's there, ie during the day or early morning.. dont get dragged into all this, its not worth it.

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yeh ur right about politics, and ego but don't u think this should not stop us from going to the gurdwara and learning more about sikhi, doing seva. but the point grewal made about granthis making up sakhis, maybe its happened in the gurdwara he has attended but wot would they gain from that. i personally agree with u when u say we have to make the gurdwara a place where people want to come and learn, maybe that has not happened in grewals case but alot of gurdwara are trying, yeh some people in the committee have other ideas but on thw whole i really think they are trying to make it so the younger generation attend, well they do at the gurdwara i attend neway, cant really speak for other gurdwarae.

neway phul chuk marf karni

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Yeah we could talk about the great things in the Gurdwara, but that will only help our community stagnate.

We get change via fair criticism, and i personally believe what i said was to the point (maybe not the most choice words) but i get emotional. So please forgive me.

As far as me knowing all the sakhis etc, i do not proclaim to know so, but when you try to question everything thirsting for knowledge you A) accept everything that you are being told, or B) try and find out yourself with Gurbani. So my point being that i heard a few Sakhis that are not mentioned in any of our text.

And no i am totally laying blame on our Gurdwaras for our communal faults after all people who are usually broke due to a broken home. I was merely trygint to highlight the point that the Gurdwara should be a home away from home, a place where at least you can give your undivided attention to the Guru and Sangat.

Yeah i go Gurdwara and try to do as much seva as i can. But as far as politics go i do not know enough Sikhi to help run such a valued place with full Sikhi values.

My qualm really was that our community is going down the plug hole, as far as numbers. I know its about quality rather than quantity, but hey are we here to settle?

please forgive my outspoken verse, i just get so frustrated seeing ignorance around me. I am so ignorant about Sikhi, but i thirst and read alone at home. I am new to the religion and and climbing slowly still. Just a downer to see the one place you value being disgraced day in day out.

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No offense taken whatsoever, i know the reply was out to educate rather than demoralize. I have no objection in being told what is right and what is wrong. Its really up to the individual how they come across. And i dont think anyone on this site are trying to be an ass. Dont worry about the apologies.

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theres allot of apney people who have negative views against the gurdwara - ive heard many people say bad stuff about the gurdwara just for a laugh - its not a laughing matter - u say something bad about the gurdwara and ur sayin something bad about the path to waheguru

THIS IS NOT FOR A LAUGH. Its a valid point/question that i felt strongly about so i posted. If i say something bad about the gurdwara im sayin something bad about the path to Waheguru? Well I guess i am the ultimate sinner after my post. Gurwara is just a building for worship. The SGGS is the essence of the building. But if the Gurdwara is being run with corruption, is it really still the path of Waheguru. A building cannot be the paath of Waheguru. You DO NOT need to go to the Gurdwara to better yourself. It may help create an environment with the grace of a sangat. But like i say if that community is full of gossip, and directors who have no clue about sikhi then is this the path of waheguru? I am not inulsting Sikhi just the way it is run.

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