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Passion of the Christ


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i have read 2 books by osho (not actually completely) entitled The True Name volumes 1 and 2 where he discusses Japji Sahib (these books showed me the path of Sikhi some 10 years ago). He talks about the martyrdom of Jesus Christ also. He says that when Jesus asks "God why have you forsaken me?" is when his faith shook. And after he was nailed to the cross, at one point he bowed his head down and said "Thy Will be done". osho says that that is when he was transformed from Jesus to Christ, and hence his name Jesus Christ. All along he was Jesus, but he became Christ only after he submitted to God's will while nailed to the cross. Hope i was able to bring that out and made sense.

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Guest Javanmard

When Jesus says: Eli eli lamai sabaktani isn't he doing the same thing as Guru Nanak when our Guru questioned Akal Purakh on the sufferings provoked by Babur's invasion of India.

It is not weakness but truly Jesus and Guru Nanak's greatness and glory: they were not just postmen who came with a message, they were compassion embodied. Compassion (lat. suffering with) implies suffering as one can only be compassionate if one has suffered oneself. Going through despair and the Mystical Night is a necessary aspect of any great spiritual path. Jesus' words are an expression of vairag not weakness. Would you qualify hal muridan da kahina as weakness? Do you sincerely think Guru Gobind SIngh did not suffer internaly from the shahidi of his two beloved sons. Imagine: our beloved Guru is in a horrible situation, the morale of his Sikhs has just been affected by all these battles. Guru Gobind Singh kept his tears in order not to demoralise his SIkhs as there was more trouble ahead. But do you really think that in his hearts of hearts our beloved Guru, the father of four fantastic children did not suffer? Any real father would! And that is why I love Guru Gobind Singh: he was love incarnated not just a message or a cold ideology!

How can we simple human beings juge the sufferings of Jesus or our Gurus!

How can anyone call Jesus weak when they themselves cannot save themselves unless it is through Guru's kirpa.

Osho had good ideas and many of his concepts are interesting but I honestly don't think he's an authority when it comes to Jesus.

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This is what Osho said about Jesus's situation at the cross:

Jesus is transformed through his sacrifice. Nobody is ever transformed without sacrifice. You have to pay for it: the cross is the price that you have to pay for it. You have to die to be reborn. You have to lose all to gain God.

That phenomenon happened on the cross. He hesitated for a time, he was very much puzzled--it was natural. For a single moment he could not see god anywhere. All was lost, he was losing all; he was going to die and there seemed to be no possibility...That happens to every seed. When you put the seed into the earth, one moment comes when the seed is losing itself, and there must be hesitation--the same hesitation that happened to Jesus on the cross. the seed is dying, and the seed must cling to the past. It wants to survive--nobody wants to die. And the seed cannot imagine that this is not death, that soon it will be resurrected in a thousandfold way, that soon it will start growing as a sprout.

The death of the seed will be the birth of the tree, and there will be great foliage and flowering and fruits, and birds will come and sit on the branches and make their nests, and people will sit under the shade of the tree; and the tree will talk to the clouds and the stars in the night, and will play with the sky, and will dance in the winds; and there will be great rejoicing. But how can this be known to the poor seed which has never been anything else? It is inconceivable. That's why God is Inconceivable.

It cannot be proved to the seed that this is going to happen, because if the seed asks 'Then let me see what you are going to do', you cannot make it available, you cannot make visible to the seed what is going to happen. it is going to happen in the future, and when it happens, the seed will be gone. The seed will never meet the tree. Man never meets God. When the man is gone, God descends.

Jesus hesitated, was worried, was bewildered. He shouted, almost shouted against the sky 'Why have you forsaken me? Why? Why this torture for me? What wrong have i done to you?' A thousand and one things must have crossed his mind.

The seed is dying, and the seed is completely oblivious to what is going to happen next. It is not possible for the seed to conceive of that next step, hence faith, hence trust is needed. The seed has to trust that the tree will be born. With all the hesitation, with all kinds of fear, insecurities, with all kinds of anguish, anxiety--inspite of all of them--the seed has to trust that the tree will happen, that the tree is going to happen. It is a leap into faith.

And that leap happened to Jesus: he relaxed on the cross and he said 'Thy kingdom come. Thy will be done...' His heart was palpitating. It is natural. You heart will also palpitate, you will also be afraid when that moment of death comes to you, when that moment comes when your self disappears and you are losing youself into the kind of nothingness, and there seems to be no way to survive, and you have to surrender.

You can surrender in two ways: You can surrender reluctantly, then you will miss the real point of it, then you will simply die and will be born again. If you can relax in deep acceptance, trust, if you can surrender without any resistance....That's what Jesus did; that is teh greatest miracle. To me that is the miracle--not that he gave health to somebody who was ill, or eyes to somebody who was blind, or cured the leprosy of somebody; or even helped Lazarus to revive, to come back to life-- and he had died. No, those are not real miracles to me they are all parables, metaphors. Every Master has given eyes to those who are blind, and ears to those who are deaf. Each Master has brought people out of their deaths that they call life, has called them out of their graves. Those are metaphors.

But the Real Miracle is when Jesus--in spite of all of his hesitations, worries, doubts, suspicions--relaxes, surrenders, and says 'Thy will be done,' that moment Jesus disappears, Christ is born.

Teilhard de Chardin call it Christogenesis: Jesus begetting Christ. Through it Christogenesis, man becomes that which he really is; he loses that which he is not and becomes that which he is: man become 'Christified'. Be 'Christified', never become a Christian. The Christian is one who follows the Christian dogma. 'Christified' means one who dies as a seed and becomes a tree. 'Christified' means that you drop the ego, you disappear as yourself and you start appearing on the plane in a kind of transfiguration: a resurrection.

'Christified' means you are no more alone: God is in you and you are in God.

This is the paradox of Christ-consciousness. Christ calls himself many times Son of man and many times Son of God. He is both: Son of man as far as the body is concerned, Son of man as far as mind is concerned; Son of God as far as spirit is concerned, Son of God as far as consciousness is concerned. Mind is the mechanism of consciousness, just as the body is the adobe of the spirit. Mind belongs to the body, consciousness belongs to spirit. Jesus is the paradox: on the one hand man, on the other hand God. And when God and man work together, then if miracles happen there is nothing to be surprised about. Miracles happen only when God and man function together in cooperation.

Leo Tolstoy has said: Christ is God and man working together, walking together, dancing together. St. Augustine says: Without God, man cannot; without man, God will not. Christ is the combined operation--the meeting of the finite with the infinite, time and eternity meeting and merging into each other.

An old garder was diggin his plot as the priest came along. 'George' said the priest 'it is wonderful what God and man working together can do.'

'Yes sir, but you should have seen this garden last year when he had it all to himself!'

Yes that is true. Man alone is impotent. God also cannot work alone. God alone is potent but has no instrument. Man alone is a hollow bamboo-nobody to create a song on it, nobody to fill it with music, harmony, melody. God alone has the capacity to create a melody but has no hollow bamboo to create a flute.

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Guest Javanmard

Thank you Pheena for giving us the full passage. Indeed very interesting. The fact that Osho quotes Teilhard de Chardin changes everything. Your earlier post made me think that Osho meant something elese. Now I see that Osho's statement was not just hanging in the air. Teilhard de Chardin is indeed a great Jesuits Catholic thinker and his thought system is very similar to that of Shri Aurobindo. Yet there is a problem in terms of Christology regarding Jesus' "eli eli lamai sabaktani". Jesus was the Christ already. A better way of formulating this is that his "Christness" became manifest when he said "Thy will be done". To say that Jesus was just Jesus before that does not make sense in the whole context of Christology. Jesus does not become Christ on the cross: he manifests his "Christness" fully and explicitly.

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Thank you Pheena for giving us the full passage. Indeed very interesting. The fact that Osho quotes Teilhard de Chardin changes everything. Your earlier post made me think that Osho meant something elese. Now I see that Osho's statement was not just hanging in the air. Teilhard de Chardin is indeed a great Jesuits Catholic thinker and his thought system is very similar to that of Shri Aurobindo. Yet there is a problem in terms of Christology regarding Jesus' "eli eli lamai sabaktani". Jesus was the Christ already. A better way of formulating this is that his "Christness" became manifest when he said "Thy will be done". To say that Jesus was just Jesus before that does not make sense in the whole context of Christology. Jesus does not become Christ on the cross: he manifests his "Christness" fully and explicitly.

In my view when osho said jesus became christ, he meant it in a way taht last string of ego that he hed held on to, he let go. Jesus was a name which was associated with a very thin ego almost non-existant. He responded with that name, but no longer is he attached to that name..he was transformed. As it is necessary, if he had no ego completly he would cease to exist...that much ego is necessary to be born into the world to save it. That small strand of ego was broken at that point. It is not the same ego in man, but a purified version where it is already ready to break. That was broken when Jesus became christ.

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I watched the film a couple of days ago, and it was incredible. Probably the best film I have ever seen. Its nice to watch a film that has a meaning to life as supposed to the violent gundh rubbish that come on. Its sad but I bet it wouldnt win any awards - instead its gonna be a violent gundh film that would get all the attention (thats life in todays world).

I dont believe it was anti semetic at all, infact wasnt it some of Jesus' disciples who also betrayed him! Its a movie of love for God, and respecting ur enemies which is far more rewarding than loving someone who loves you.

The film also reminded me of our Gurus, and how they too made sacrafices for their followers as well as enemies!

I say that more films should be made like this that have a meaning and promote love n peace in the world today.

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i watched this film today and i thought it was really good, girlUK basically summed up all my views on it too

a qn tho, who was that guy with the weird lookin baby in the black cloak who was walkin in the background a few times and he dropped that snake infront of the bloke at the start

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A question i have is that why is 40 minutes of the movie only focuses on the Crucifiction of Jesus??

I have a question, when Jesus was Crucified, what feelings did u have, Anger, Guilt, Fear, Love, Compassion?

btw i haven't seen the movie so i can't comment on it fully.

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As Lalleshvari said, it is a Catholic film, set firmly on the suffering and pain. This is one interpretation, for example, another is the Greek Orthodox, who have stated that they are diasappointed by the film because it ignores what is for them the important bit of the whole episode...Christ's resurrection.

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Guest Javanmard

Jtsingh is absolutely right. The most important event is the ressurection and a lot of people miss this point. Also I need to remind peple here that Mel Gibson's movie is a Passion play i.e. it is a well established genre concentrating on the death and suffering of Christ.

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