Amrikingh Posted July 7, 2007 Report Share Posted July 7, 2007 someone got told, lol Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Javanmard Posted July 8, 2007 Report Share Posted July 8, 2007 1. The Prophet (pbuh) married 9 times. That's one time more than Guru Hari Rai. 2. Aisha was 20 whe she married the Prophet (pbuh). 3. No the Prophet did not get married to a minor but some of the Gurus were minors when they got married. The Gurus have the status of Imam Mustaqarr or fixed Imam, i.e. there is no difference between their light and that of Imam Ali (as) except in some external signs such as: - they received normal schooling - some of them "converted" to the teachings which meas they pracitised something else before. The 12 Imams, the Prophet and Fatimah never received any schoolingn(they are instructed by the Holy Spirit) and have always been Muslims from birth i.e. they never worshiped idols. They are Haqiqi Imams. It's you people who say that I say that the Gurus were inferior. These questions don't interest me at all because the real reason behind your question is your fear of loosing your distinctive identity which you'll always conserve so stop being paranoid. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kharag Singh Posted July 8, 2007 Report Share Posted July 8, 2007 javanmard you have crossed the line now, by saying that that the gurus did not have sight of the holy spirit you have ommited blasphemy. My he lord forgive because the panth cannot! akaaaaaaaaaaaal! sat sri akaaaaaal! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Javanmard Posted July 8, 2007 Report Share Posted July 8, 2007 1. The Ruh al Qudus (Holy Spirit) is not mentionned in the Janamsakhis 2. I never said the Gurus were not inspired by the Ruh al Qudus in terms of revealing gurbani. 3. I only said that the Gurus went to school and that they were not schooled by the Ruh al Qudus. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kharag Singh Posted July 8, 2007 Report Share Posted July 8, 2007 well we all know how well ruh al qudus schooled muhammad rasool, he was illiterate! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Javanmard Posted July 8, 2007 Report Share Posted July 8, 2007 That's precisely the proof: Gabriel told the Prophet to read the Qur'an and he said he couldn't and then he was able to do so thanks to the Ruh al Qudus. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kharag Singh Posted July 8, 2007 Report Share Posted July 8, 2007 ye and nor could the gunga (mute) shudra read the the geeta yet 8ve patshah with one touch envoked the holy spirit for the gunga to recite bhagwad! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Javanmard Posted July 8, 2007 Report Share Posted July 8, 2007 And I agree BUT the Gurus still went to school. How on earth is that blasphemy? Your own sources say it! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kharag Singh Posted July 8, 2007 Report Share Posted July 8, 2007 so what if the guru's went to school thay doesnt make them in anyway inferior. Raam Krishna both avtaars of mahavishnu went to school the normal manav way does that make them inferior NO! But i dont know whether it is your thought or its the poor way you express yourself the vibe i get from you if that there is nothing greater than muhammad rasool! If that were true then the avtars of our gurus was pointless! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
shaheediyan Posted July 8, 2007 Report Share Posted July 8, 2007 "According to the Puratan Janam-sakhi Guru Nanak Dev Ji was born in the month of Vaisakh, 1469. The date is given as the third day of the light half of the month and the birth is said it have taken place during the last watch before dawn. His father Kalu, was a khatri of the Bedi sub-cast and lived in a village Rai Bhoi di talwandi, his mothers name is not given. When Guru Ji turned seven he was taken to a pundit to learn how to read. After only one day he gave up reading and when the pundit asked him why Guru Ji lapsed into silence and instructed him at length in the vanity of worldly learning and the contrasting value of the Divine Name of God. The child began to show disturbing signs of withdrawal from the world. He was sent to learn Persian at the age of nine but returned home and continued to sit in silence." Was Imam Ali not the Prophets 1st disciple? If Imam Ali was schooled by Ruh al Qudus, then why was he the Prophets disciple, whay not the other way around? Why did the Angel Gabrial need to reveal the holy word to the Prophet when Mauwla could have done so? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Javanmard Posted July 8, 2007 Report Share Posted July 8, 2007 Jibreel didn't need to reveal the Qur'an to Imam Ali (as) because He is the Qur'a himself. In the mira'j Allah (swt) spoke to Muhammad with the voice of 'Ali (as) and on many occasions he said it was impossible to define the nature of Ali (as). In fact Imam Muhammad al Baqir said: We are the proofs of God over this world, and our mother Fatimah is the proof over us. You talk about Guru Nanak what about the other Gurus? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kharag Singh Posted July 8, 2007 Report Share Posted July 8, 2007 the other gurus are the same jyot as guru nanak how many times have people said this to you!!!!!!!!!!!!! aaaaaaaaargh you know how to piss people off! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Javanmard Posted July 8, 2007 Report Share Posted July 8, 2007 Guru Gobind Singh was taught Persian and Arabic by Sayyid Inayat Khan. Guru Angad and Guru Amardas went to school as well. So clearly they were schooled. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
shaheediyan Posted July 8, 2007 Report Share Posted July 8, 2007 You didn't differentiate in your original question. The true schooling/knowledge comes from the Jagdi Jyot, which is why Guru Angad Ji, Guru Amardaas Ji and Guru Ramdaas Ji were able to contribute so equally and divinely to Sri Aad Granth Sahib. The only worthwhile thing to note is that the 2nd to 4th Guru sahiban were persons of divine character, which is why they were chosen to recieve Guru Nanak dev Ji's jyot. Your study is completely pointless nit-picking, and I am getting influenced to do the same, which is wrong on my part. You try to make sense of and reconcile all factions of your beliefs, and I am sure you believe you have or will. God is creative and beyond our understanding, and has revealed himself to us in a myriad of forms and paths, in order to to test out commitment, faith and understanding of his higher and inner message. But all you are interested in is categorisation, detailing a version of history and religion that fits your lifestyle, establishing hierarchies, promoting the Shia supremecy, causing some controversy and possibly making an academic name for yourself, none of which I believe will win you Allahs grace or give you peace. You could use your skills in a much more productive and actually help people if you wanted to. But then you say why would you want to help the community that has sidelined you, then what exactly are you trying to achieve through these discussions.... apart from adjusting and strengthening your arguements through identifying an idea of what counter-arguments the populace will have once your articles/books are published. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Javanmard Posted July 8, 2007 Report Share Posted July 8, 2007 Believe what you want to believe. As to the discussions you're the ones starting. It's all ok for you guys to insult Jesus (as), Mary (as) and Ahl ul Bayt (as) but I just need to say that Guru Nanak was a Mustawda Imam i.e. that I honour him as a manifestation of God's Face and you all get emotional. You really are hypocrits! s! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
shaheediyan Posted July 8, 2007 Report Share Posted July 8, 2007 "We all" did not insult Jesus Christ, the holy mother, the Prophet or the Imams/Bibi Fatima. Stop sensationlising and hyperbolizing everything. Nealry all people show nothing but respect for other faiths here. You have a funny way of "honouring" the face of God, drawing minority and questionable sources to "dwell" on insignificant detail in order create a reaction. Also, get your facts right, you are the hypocrite, on one hand claiming to understand and promote/believe in both Guru Gobind Singhs and Imam Alis compassionate and chivalrous personalities, and on the other hand cursing and insulting Jews, Sunni's and Sikhs, when you are well aware that a man should be judged by his deeds and not by his community/faith - and that good and bad exist in all religious denominations, including yours. You will then claim we are all "tribal", yet you are the one that always has the most dramatic reaction when any one asks questions of Islam or Ahl ul Bayt which don't fit your understanding. Grow up. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Javanmard Posted July 8, 2007 Report Share Posted July 8, 2007 1. I never saw you defend them. 2. Several posts on this forum were made which clearly insult Ahl ul Bayt (as) you people don't ask questios about Ahl ul Bayt (as) you insult them: difference! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dhan96Crore Posted July 8, 2007 Report Share Posted July 8, 2007 javanmard is full of bollucks, its just stinks so bad now, i mean its a clear fact in islamic history that: 1)Aisha got married to mohammed at the age of 9, after being engaged to him at the age of 6, if i remember clearly the age of mohammed at that time was in his late 50's, early 60's. Basically a 60 year old man got married to a 9 year old. Also mohammed got married at least 11 times if not 12, 9 times? LOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOL The above is no insult but fact, you know it everyone knows it, i dont give 2 fucks if you think its an insult because youre a pillock anyway. 2)Gabrial had to deliver the quran to mohammed, which means he did not receive it directly from Akaal, gabrial was the middle man between Akaal and mohammed, where in Sikhi Bani has come directly to the Gurus from Vaheguruu which shows the Gurus were one with Vaheguruu. 3)javanamard has truly lost it, he has not and i doubt if he will understand who Guru Gobind Singh Ji is. And im sorry to burst your little bubble you live in, but the prophets you speak of, mohammed, jesus, gabrial, moses, noa, ali etc etc etc are just that and nothing more. THE GURUS ARE AVATAARS OF VAHEGURU DHAN AKAAL PURKH VAHEGURU DHAN GURU GOBIND SINGH JI MAHARAJ DHAN SRI GURU GRANTH SAHIB JI MAHARAJ DHAN SRI GURU DASAM GRANTH SAHIB JI MAHARAJ DHAN SRI GURU SARBLOH GRANTH SAHIB JI MAHARAJ DHAN MATA SAHIB KAUR JI , THE MOTHER OF THE KHALSA PANTH. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Javanmard Posted July 8, 2007 Report Share Posted July 8, 2007 1. Aisha's sister was 100 when she died in 73 Hijra. Aisha was 10 years younger and she married the Prophet in year 2 of Hijra. This means she was 19 when she married the Prophet. The hadith about Aisha being 9 is unreliable and forged. 2. This may be the case with the Prophet, but in the case of Imam Ali all his actions and words come from God as well. 3. Shout slogans as much as you want. Won't change anything... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dhan96Crore Posted July 8, 2007 Report Share Posted July 8, 2007 javanmard my pet pig called porky talks more sense than you do, youre pathetic and its very clear. KUSHIAN DE JAKAREY GAJAVE NIHAAAL HO JAVE JERA JAVANMARD NU SHITAR MAREY, MUUU VICH SOOR PAVE NIHAAAL HO JAVE SATSRIAKAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAL Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kam1825 Posted July 8, 2007 Report Share Posted July 8, 2007 Javanmard i dont agree with your views but i have one question, is mohammed greater then Guru Nanak Dev Ji? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Beetlejuice Posted July 8, 2007 Report Share Posted July 8, 2007 AGAIN Javanmard, You always claim the Satgurus to be pure and that you love them WHY do you constantly resort to calling Sikh things YOUR SOURCES, YOUR THIS, YOUR THAT..... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Beetlejuice Posted July 8, 2007 Report Share Posted July 8, 2007 Javanamard I agree some people do insult the Holy Prophets as well as the Holy Imams, however, NOT everyone on this forum has insulted them, so why do you constantly paint everyone with the same brush? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Javanmard Posted July 8, 2007 Report Share Posted July 8, 2007 Did you defend them? It's not enough to say "I didn't insult them". Those who do nothing to protect the Gurus or Ahl ul Bayt (as) are like those who insult them. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kharag Singh Posted July 8, 2007 Report Share Posted July 8, 2007 You didn't differentiate in your original question. The true schooling/knowledge comes from the Jagdi Jyot, which is why Guru Angad Ji, Guru Amardaas Ji and Guru Ramdaas Ji were able to contribute so equally and divinely to Sri Aad Granth Sahib. The only worthwhile thing to note is that the 2nd to 4th Guru sahiban were persons of divine character, which is why they were chosen to recieve Guru Nanak dev Ji's jyot. Your study is completely pointless nit-picking, and I am getting influenced to do the same, which is wrong on my part. You try to make sense of and reconcile all factions of your beliefs, and I am sure you believe you have or will. God is creative and beyond our understanding, and has revealed himself to us in a myriad of forms and paths, in order to to test out commitment, faith and understanding of his higher and inner message. But all you are interested in is categorisation, detailing a version of history and religion that fits your lifestyle, establishing hierarchies, promoting the Shia supremecy, causing some controversy and possibly making an academic name for yourself, none of which I believe will win you Allahs grace or give you peace. You could use your skills in a much more productive and actually help people if you wanted to. But then you say why would you want to help the community that has sidelined you, then what exactly are you trying to achieve through these discussions.... apart from adjusting and strengthening your arguements through identifying an idea of what counter-arguments the populace will have once your articles/books are published. AMEEN TO THAT! Javanmard you are going round in circles mate, have you never heard of the concept of leela? Our gurus were bhramgyanis, therefore they had divine knowledge and recieved schooling as per Akaals hukkam to give them a more human nature, but for Akaal purukh their greatness in actions was still too great to be considered as normal hence Maharaj Noor e Allah Guru Gobind Singh Ji condemns all those to hell who have the dursahas os calling him God. Javanmard i am a strong believer in giving credit in places where it is deserved, even though your theories may seem distorted to us you research is commendable which will indeed make you a fine scholar, however sidhe raste peh ja, go to Gurubhoomi and do pravachans with some budde babe who have more gyan than you. Because as maharaj says that after he has gone the kunji to gurbani lies in the hands of a sant, you sit in your room reading the texts according to your own interpretations, jah kisse horr di vi rah sun leh, go to a sant mahapurush who has gyaan of bani and rid yourself of false conceptions, and when you come back tell us moorakhs what you have learnt so that we may too engrose our selves in divine knowledge! Yasashvi Bahava! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts