namjap Posted July 4, 2007 Report Share Posted July 4, 2007 ... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Javanmard Posted July 4, 2007 Report Share Posted July 4, 2007 Yeah and I am Christian now right? LOL Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
namjap Posted July 5, 2007 Report Share Posted July 5, 2007 ... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
guv Posted July 5, 2007 Report Share Posted July 5, 2007 But Sikhs are only a small cherry topping on the tip of an iceberg. The Law of Averages show that the Muslims are their primary target, who are at the bottom of the pyramid. This website does not show Sikhs as a major target for conversion. Reason why I showed the pics earlier is to nip the 'threat' at its bud. http://contenderministries.org/islam/missionaries.php If you go to a missionary church in a typical African country you'll find that it resembles a mosque more than the archetypal church. The worshippers stand in rows during prayer and sit on the ground in circles during classes... When reciting the bible they even use a style of recitation exactly the same as the Qura'nic Tajweed. It's all a calculated deception What's this got to do with the topic? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
shaheediyan Posted July 5, 2007 Report Share Posted July 5, 2007 "If you go to a missionary church in a typical African country you'll find that it resembles a mosque more than the archetypal church. The worshippers stand in rows during prayer and sit on the ground in circles during classes... When reciting the bible they even use a style of recitation exactly the same as the Qura'nic Tajweed. It's all a calculated deception " And I suppose there is not even the remotest possibility that it is a simple cultural influence. Today, Sikhs eat langar sitting at tables instead of on the floor, they sing kirtan in eccentric qwaali and bollywood style rather than in Guru's hukum, they practice a fencing influenced sport called gatka instead of a real war art etcetera etcetera, I would worry about the "calculated deception" going in the Sikh community before deciding to single handedly tackle less harmful "deception" strategies being employed in Africa. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
namjap Posted July 5, 2007 Report Share Posted July 5, 2007 ... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
shaheediyan Posted July 5, 2007 Report Share Posted July 5, 2007 Have you noticed that nearly all people converting in the video are poor villagers, Dalits etc... What do you expect, if "Hindu's" and "Sikhs" are going to treat the low castes worse than animals. Do some research and see how Dalits are treated by the "bharati's", at least Christianity gives them a community who isn't going to spit at and kill them. Be it that the conversion agenda's are not holy. Also "NAMJAP", lovely comments you left: "namjap Christian conversion is a cult like MLM. Not every member will be happy. Most of them will be drop-outs and back into their origins. In Punjab, there is no shortage of fertilizer because missing christians are the fertilizer in the farms. namjap All I can tell the Christians is not to mess with Punjabis. Especially Sikhs. Every Sikh is capable of killing 125,000 christians. " You are a disgrace to Sikhi and should quit using your net name "namjap", because vileness comes out your mouth, not naam. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
drawrof Posted July 5, 2007 Report Share Posted July 5, 2007 I don't know where naamjap said this but get a life kid! I condone you for the tutti you are spewing out, you padh! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
namjap Posted July 5, 2007 Report Share Posted July 5, 2007 ... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Javanmard Posted July 6, 2007 Report Share Posted July 6, 2007 Amen Halleluia! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
namjap Posted July 6, 2007 Report Share Posted July 6, 2007 ... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
shaheediyan Posted July 6, 2007 Report Share Posted July 6, 2007 Listen brother, you are either confused (which I hope is the right prediction), a very good wind up artist or have been brainwashed by some unsavoury characters. Please take my advice, do gurmat vichaar on your comments and topics before letting loose. It's fine to discuss issues that genuinely concern you, but this can be done without inciting religious hatred on the net, which if you have been watching the news, is now a punishable offence in the UK. And that goes for other fervent haters of other faiths who allow their narrow and prejudiced minds complete freedom. So be careful, and be warned. ps I am not a policy maker or Judge, so don't ask me where the boundaries lie, this was just a friendly caveat. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kharag Singh Posted July 6, 2007 Report Share Posted July 6, 2007 ok so muhammad is the lords rasool and ali is his wali and esa is roohallah, where do we go from here? What status do our gurus have? Musalman say that there is no higher rank than that of gods rasool, where do your Guru's fit in this grand scale, thats all i want to know, because this argument of sikhism and shiaism and ismailism (whatever that is) etc etc. So as they say in punjabi soh hath rassa sire te gandh, is debate da satta ki hai? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Javanmard Posted July 6, 2007 Report Share Posted July 6, 2007 The Gurus are manifestations of Imam Ali (as)'s light and hujjahs of Imam Mahdi (fa). Mind you Imam 'Ali is superior to the Prophet (pbuh) if you look at the hadiths but modern zahiri 12ers tend to want to please their Sunni ennemies. But Lady Fatimah (as) 's status....there is no word to describe it. Ya Zahra!!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted July 7, 2007 Report Share Posted July 7, 2007 The Gurus are manifestations of Imam Ali (as)'s light and hujjahs of Imam Mahdi (fa). Mind you Imam 'Ali is superior to the Prophet (pbuh) if you look at the hadiths but modern zahiri 12ers tend to want to please their Sunni ennemies. But Lady Fatimah (as) 's status....there is no word to describe it. Ya Zahra!!! Guru's are manifestations of Nirgun vahiguroo/allah/nirankar. I think by putting guru as manifestation of imam ali (sargun paratma) we are de-valuing the concept of Nirankar/Nirgun Paratma. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kam1825 Posted July 7, 2007 Report Share Posted July 7, 2007 The problem we have is that if we state that the prophet mohammed is the highest messenger and Ali is the face of God who is at a lower status and the Gurus are of equal status we have the problem of - Gurbani stating such as in the Bhatt bani that the Gurus are the transcendental form of the non transcendental being. There is no lie in the Sri Guru Granth Sahib Ji thus this is the status of the Guru The problem is if the status of Ali is the same as the Guru's and the prophet mohammed being seen as a greater messenger then the Gurus then does that make the prophet greater then the non transcendental Lord? Just a thought not taking the piss or causing blasphamy Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
namjap Posted July 7, 2007 Report Share Posted July 7, 2007 .. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
shaheediyan Posted July 7, 2007 Report Share Posted July 7, 2007 N30 Singh Ji, it might be worth moving this element of the thread to one of 100 or so already existing ones which deal with Javandmard Ji's theory, as this thread is for discussing the holy mother. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Javanmard Posted July 7, 2007 Report Share Posted July 7, 2007 A simple question: were all the Gurus born perfect and did they all abstain from actions contrary to gurbani? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kam1825 Posted July 7, 2007 Report Share Posted July 7, 2007 Javanmard to the question you pose i guess my natural answer would be yes but i am sure that you will have another answer to delve into this one further! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Javanmard Posted July 7, 2007 Report Share Posted July 7, 2007 Was Guru Angad a devotee of Vaishno Devi and was Guru Angad a practising Vaishnava? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
namjap Posted July 7, 2007 Report Share Posted July 7, 2007 Jawanmard, it took you 3 months to realize how beneficial it is to split your personality. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Javanmard Posted July 7, 2007 Report Share Posted July 7, 2007 No darling just revising my position on things. So your answer to my question is yes I suppose then... Another question did the Gurus receive education from a human teacher in learning languages, maths etc? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dhan96Crore Posted July 7, 2007 Report Share Posted July 7, 2007 How many times did mohammed get married? What was the age of his youngest wife aisha? and how old was mohammed when he got married to her? Why did mohammed get married to a minor? 'The gurus were manifestations of ali' , javanmard you really have lost it, the Gurus were avataars of Vaheguru, what dont you understand? javanmard your islamic views have caused you to question the Gurus, its a sad shame. And by the way if you want to start playing the tit for tat game, im ready as there is plenty to go by to counter everything you say. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted July 7, 2007 Report Share Posted July 7, 2007 Was Guru Angad a devotee of Vaishno Devi and was Guru Angad a practising Vaishnava? Javanmard, you seem to have duality on ten guru's. a).fact that satguru nanak was guru by birth nullifies janam sakhi of other guru's being devotee of vaishano devi, at the end of day- all the guru's were one jot. . when guru avtar takes birth he/she have to play tamasha in this jagat or role in this jagat, guru angad dev ji, guru amar das ji being jot of satguru nanak was already pre-odained, this cannot be questioned by janam sakhi that he was a intially follower of vaishano devi. As sri guru gobind singh ji says- Mein Ho Param Purkh ko dasa, dekhan aio jagat tamasha. All these janam sakhi that you were quoting are just staged tamasha/role avtar have to perform. There is no question of sikh guru's being direct manifestation of nirgun paratama. I think thats a disrepect to our guru sahiban to say they were manifestation of sargun paratma(imam ali). Its like saying guru's came from a ray- imam ali of sun(nirankar), they were some sort of secondary ray came from primary ray of sun not being ray itself directly came from nirankar. Sri guru gobind singh ji himself said- "aad ant eka avtara, soi samajho guru hamara" All these home baked theories of guru being manifestation of imam ali goes out of window. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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