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Calling one Sikh


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Can I ask where Neo said Money are not Sikhs?

This is what he posted.

Also true sehajdhari sikhs wouldnt even dare to take last name "Singh" "Kaur" like punjabi youths which they dont deserve. Sehajdhari Sikhs have self-respect so they use their last name...

Do you understand English?

So now we should stop encouraging people to keep their hair just because we need money for donations?

Encourage? I think you're mixing the meaning of the word 'encourage' with 'coerce'. Get your hands on a Oxford dictionary and learn the meaning of the two words.You ENCOURAGE when you use positive reinforcement but you COERCE when you use negative reinforcement. When I say "you should keep your hair because it's good for you"...this implies encouragement but when one states "you're not a true Sikh".. "you're going to hell"..."Guru will hate you if you don't keep your hair"....this is negative reinforcement which is actually coercion and NOT encouragement.

As for the 'donations' I was just trying to reiterate to the likes of you that 'Mona' Sikhs are not some 'non contributing','ungrateful' Sikhs as you would like to falsely belief.Why is there so much negativity associated with 'Mone' by Amartari Sikhs in this forum? Who made you all judges?

Compromise on the Guru's teachings for money?

Who is asking YOU to compromise your beliefs? Mone Sikhs are not exactly some dumbasses hanging about the Sikh temples as the likes of you would like to believe. You need to respect them and stop belitteling them.

If you carry on making any more personal remarks like that, purposefully distorting posts, you will get another warning.

Ooooooh, I'm sooo scared. Help! Help I'm going to be given another warning by the 'Great Moderator'!! Oh no, how will I live with myself? How will I survive???

What 'personal' remarks are you talking about? I was merely stating my opinion in a forum that purpots to have discussions on Sikhism. Your behaviour is hardly scholarly. Everytime someone gives their opinion or asks questions, you jump on them. Instead you are behaving like a dictator in your own little cyber world. Your intolerant behaviour as a moderator in Sikh discussion forum is shocking indeed! Go ahead and ban me for all I care!

I think I'm beggining to realise now why so many members here are simply recieving silly warnings and being banned. So much for a 'discussion forum'. It's no wonder so many members here are extremely polite always apologizing ('phull chukk maaf') when there's nothing apologize for. They are obviously scared of being banned. HA! So much for 'awareness', oh yeah I'm aware now.

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Jamukha lets do vichar what i said.

Also true sehajdhari sikhs wouldnt even dare to take last name "Singh" "Kaur" like punjabi youths which they dont deserve. Sehajdhari Sikhs have self-respect so they use their last name...

True Sehajdhari (Mona Sikhs with charan amrit from their murshad=sadhu whatever you wanna call it) wont dare to use name like Singh and kaur because they dont simply deserve it. You become Singh and Kaur after taking amrit. That is a crystal clear concept because thats how guroo gobind singh ji gave us this name. Singh name be related to hindu families (mostly rajput) but that is irrelevent in this discussion. Since i m talking about people born in sikh houselhold.

I must remind you-

This topic was related to topic "Is it wrong to marry a non-sikh" . It somehow became topic of calling one sikh that lead to mud slinging match.

I m goin to spilt this topic called "Calling one sikh" because it seems like orginal topic was answered. Then you can debate as much you wish.

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Simple answer to a simple question..

'The path of sikhi is thinner than a strand of hair, and sharper than the double edged sword' (bhai gurdas ji)..basically its a f!'""!!! hard path to follow, almost impossible. So do we want to make things harder for urselves, by marrying someone who isnt like-minded/follows the same beleifs as u?

I guess as long as ur "happy" then its all good..but the fact u ask this question from spiritual people makes me think ur conscience is telling u otherwise..god bless sister

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Jamuka no need to create hostility within the forum; i understand ur viewpoint, but u dont put out fire with wood. Lets calm things down just a little..we are all brothers and sisters here..p.s the use of bul chak maaf is something MOST humble sikhs would say; as well as showing humility, it pardons any mistakes made (after all we all interpret bani in different ways; so using this expression means the viewpoint is open to discussion)..infact go to ANY sikh forum and u'll find this expression.

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True Sehajdhari (Mona Sikhs with charan amrit from their murshad=sadhu whatever you wanna call it) wont dare to use name like Singh and kaur because they dont simply deserve it.

And that Singh that started the fight that I saw did deserve the name Singh? Hardly.

Who deserves the name Singh? An amritdharee? How many people on this forum were given the name Singh or Kaur at birth? Well, unless they took amrit before the birth certificate was made they do not deserve to be called Singh/Kaur either then.

Put simpley, Amritdharees do not have a monopoly on the name Singh/Kaur:

Every Amritdharee has to be a Singh or a Kaur, but not every non-Amritdharee has to be a Singh/Kaur. Those that choose to give their children that name should be commended, not vilified.

Your ideals are nice and noble, but impractical.

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Well beast ji,

I just beleive that people who have singh/kaur in their name and do evil things such as- sleepling around, drinking, smoking, acting like rude boi wanna be's are insulting guroo maharaj gift which is (Name- Singh and kaur) given to amrit-dhari sikhs.

Off course if they are named from their birth its not the fault of child but parents ignorance but lets be honest. Punjabi youths instead of over-coming that ignorance will use names like ( Sexy Singh) (Sexy Sikh Kaur) (Kaurlicious) , (Singh stud) etc floating all over chat forums and disguisting name as such. I dont blame them but its all because of ignorance we got in our community.

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Well beast ji,

I just beleive that people who have singh/kaur in their name and do evil things such as- sleepling around, drinking, smoking, acting like rude boi wanna be's are insulting guroo maharaj gift which is (Name- Singh and kaur) given to amrit-dhari sikhs.

Off course if they are named from their birth its not the fault of child but parents ignorance but lets be honest. Punjabi youths instead of over-coming that ignorance will use names like ( Sexy Singh) (Sexy Sikh Kaur) (Kaurlicious) , (Singh stud) etc floating all over chat forums and disguisting name as such. I dont blame them but its all because of ignorance we got in our community.

In this context I agree with you 100%. But personally I think this situation goes further than the name Singh or Kaur. Our first names have meaning as well. For example, Gurpreet means love for the Guru; but you will still find Gurpreets somewhere sleeping around, drinking, smoking, etc. In this context, those people are not doing themselves any favours, but surely increasing their awareness is the solution?

Related to this, I'm a big bhangra fan but I was a bit cheesed off when some guy from east London started using the name Steve Singhfellow. Ridiculous!

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Beast, i agree with you as well. It seems really impossible to bring that practice of self-respect of appropiate names given such as Singh, Kaur. I think awareness should defo be raised in this regard.

Here is the best example for sehajdhari sant/mahatama:

album_pic.jpg

Even though he is a sehajdhari sikh but he still has self respect for guroo maharaj not to use name like Singh behind his full name because he didnt went through khalsa baptisation.

Whats the difference between him and other sikh sant/mahapursh?? Nothing at all!!!!!!!!!!!!!

But point i m stressing is if bhramgyanis sant mahapursh have self-respect for tittle of "Singh/Kaur" why cant punjabi community can?

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Hmmm.... Ok, let's all chill and take a deep breath....

I haven't personally heard much about Sehajdhari sikhs, and would like to know more about their role within sikhism, would someone plz give more information on how does one become a sehajdhari, what r they expected to do? and how come no one really talks about them at the gurdhwara?.... Does the murshad have to be sikh himself? or what? Please enlighte me.... thanks

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Guest Punjabi Nationalist

Hmmm.... Ok, let's all chill and take a deep breath....

I haven't personally heard much about Sehajdhari sikhs, and would like to know more about their role within sikhism, would someone plz give more information on how does one become a sehajdhari, what r they expected to do? and how come no one really talks about them at the gurdhwara?.... Does the murshad have to be sikh himself? or what? Please enlighte me.... thanks

A Sehajdhari Sikh is someone who practices Sikhism but is not a Khalsa. A mona can be someone who is born in a Sikh family but is not practising or can be a Punjabi Hindu who attends Gurdwara (Hence it is 'mona Punjabi' and not 'mona Sikh'). That is the distinction i have always seemed to have been told...

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I have asked amrit veer to give us more insight on sehajdhari sikhs . I think Pn description was just little touch on them. I think they do more than just attending gurdwara as in intiating them into charan amrit from their sant/mahapursh, they also beleive in sggs ji (Thats what i heard).

Their were sehadhari sikhs back in early 1900. Some about 100 Sehajdhari Sikhs got inspired by sant baba nand singh ji bhagti towards akaal purkha and took khanda bhatta da amrit.

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I'd just like to say that Jamuka's first reply to this topic was neither hostile nor personal. It was only after he was 'threatened' with a warning did he reply in a more sarcastic tone. And rightly so. Why should he get a warning for stating his opinion about moneh Sikhs?

How many different erm 'types' (dont know what other word to use here) of Sikhs are there/can there be?

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And that Singh that started the fight that I saw did deserve the name Singh? Hardly

Agreed. Whats the point of becoming an Amartari Sikh when it's obvious many are just using this position to have a 'holier then thou' attitude by judging others? Doesn't this behaviour constitute arrogance which inflates one's ego? No point spotting a 'pug' and 'dardi' and becoming an amartari when one has not been able to conquer one's ego.

I just beleive that people who have singh/kaur in their name and do evil things such as- sleepling around, drinking, smoking, acting like rude boi wanna be's are insulting guroo maharaj gift which is (Name- Singh and kaur) given to amrit-dhari sikhs.

But who are we to judge? I've met Hindus who wear the Sikh bangle hoping to be passed of as a Punjabi Sikh. Should I reprimand them? What does it matter? Who am I to judge? Why don't we see the greater good of this act? Money Sikhs with Singh's or Kaurs would rather identify themselves as Sikhs and isn't that good? Would you want them to denounce Sikhism and join other religions?

Off course if they are named from their birth its not the fault of child but parents ignorance but lets be honest. Punjabi youths instead of over-coming that ignorance will use names like ( Sexy Singh) (Sexy Sikh Kaur) (Kaurlicious) , (Singh stud) etc floating all over chat forums and disguisting name as such. I dont blame them but its all because of ignorance we got in our community.

The Singh and Kaur are words that the Amartaris do not have a monopoly over. If it concerns you so much then I suggest you assume they are Rajput Hindus and not Sikhs. Sikhs are not the only ones using Singh. We copied it off others. BTW how do you know they are Sikhs?

Related to this, I'm a big bhangra fan but I was a bit cheesed off when some guy from east London started using the name Steve Singhfellow. Ridiculous!

You know Beast I really don't see whats the big deal.

I'd just like to say that Jamuka's first reply to this topic was neither hostile nor personal.

Hey thanks.

It's sad that while Sikhs have not been able to secure a homeland for themselves and Hindu India has caused the biggest diaspora of Sikhs all over the world, here they are fighting among themselves over silly trivial issues as to who has the right to use Singh and Kaur and who isn't. I was always under the impression that the problem was the other way around, whereby many Sikhs of the younger generation refuse to use Singh in their names and have started abreviated their names to first and last eg. Ragbir Singh Randhawa to Ragbir Randhawa. I gues now I know why it's happening.

From what I can see the problem among Sikhs are the lack of good and proper leadership. This is why Sikhs around the globe are not united. Sikhs should look at the Jews and learn from them.

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Beast are you a singh? Sorry to start this again, buts mods this guy keeps asking for it!!

Beast if your a singh, do you deserve to call yourself a singh, and watch a fight?? Do you deserve to be a singh and watch someone be attacked? Maybe the singh was upset and responded in the way he thought correct given the point of contention. Who are you to judge?! lol i love the 'who are you to judge' argument!! it can be used by everyone, anytime, in every single situation imaginable!! But beast please do reply.

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Ps make your mind up over jews, jews are not united, they have many factions which believe in diff things. Ps jews also have their own homeland which you seem to be against, and by the way the jews did survive history. Bur just about, they been persecuted and thrown out of every country they been in, then they were nearly wiped out last centuary. How have they managed to get some stability? By creating Israel. Dont quote jews unless you know what your on about.

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Ps make your mind up over jews, jews are not united, they have many factions which believe in diff things. Ps jews also have their own homeland which you seem to be against, and by the way the jews did survive history. Bur just about, they been persecuted and thrown out of every country they been in, then they were nearly wiped out last centuary. How have they managed to get some stability? By creating Israel. Dont quote jews unless you know what your on about.

I'm assuming you're referring to me since I am the only one quoting the Jews here. Contrary to what fairy tales you may choose to believe, the Jews ARE united. Almost all Jews support Zionism. What they have managed to achieve despite their relative small number could have been only achieved only through unity. Golda Meir's one visit to the US during their independance movement yielded donations up to 50 over million US dollars and mind you she went there with less then 10 dollars in her wallet. Jews who migrated from Europe without being able to speak a single word of Hebrew or Yiddish were fighting next to Israeli native Jews despite not being able to communicate. This is what you call unity.

I WILL and WILL CONTINUE to quote the Jews and I DO know what they are all about contrary to what you may believe.

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Guest Punjabi Nationalist

How many different erm 'types' (dont know what other word to use here) of Sikhs are there/can there be?

Sikhs are Sikhs first. There is no denominations or sects within Sikhism unlike other religions.

There are Sehajdhari Sikhs, Keshdhari Sikhs, and Khalsa Sikhs (GurSikhs).

Bascially, you could say they are different stages of devotion to the religion. Khalsa Sikhs are most important when it comes to running of Sikh institutions, someone correct me if im wrong.

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