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Gurudwara rules need to be enfoced!!!!!


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Got this from ss. Like to share with the sangat and discuss about it. If anyone wish to bring critcism of (Whats being said??). Please do with humbleness and scholary fashion. This forum has no place for cheap insults or slandering.

====================================================

There has been something on my mind for quite some time now. And i think we need to take action. It is in regards to Gurudwara etiquette. From what i have seen in some Gurudwaras, there seems to be a very relaxed mood when it comes to enforcing basic Maryada and rules. Here is a list of some things that i feel we need to enforce immediately...

1) No talking in the Darbar. --- The Darbar is a place for Sangat to listen to Gurbani, not to listen to people talking about there lives. I have seen so often (sorry to say, especially on the female side) people siting in groups just chatting it up, not listening to Kirtan themselves, and distracting others from enjoying the Kirtan. This is disrespectful to Guru Ji, if you want to talk, just leave.

what should be done? --- we should make it OUR personal duty to inform anyone talking in the Darbar Hall to please be quiet, and also talk to the Gurudwra committee to regularly announce the importance of silence in the Darbar. Don't be afraid that someone may get mad at you, it is our DUTY to enforce respect of Guru Ji.

2) Controlling Children --- for many people a Gurudwara is like a playground for children. I know it is natural for a kid to enjoy playing with other kids, but there is a time and place for everything, and playing in the Darbar is not appropriate.

what should be done?--- Any kid running, yelling, and making a disturbance in the Darbar should be dealt with right away. Go straight to the parent(s), and explain that the child's behaviour is disturbing Sangat who wants to focus, and if the kid can't be controlled, then the parent should take the kid out of Darbar hall. I especially feel for my sisters, you are trying to listen to kirtan, but having to 'tune out' the kids who are yelling and rolling around. It is our duty to enforce Maryada instead of just hoping the problwm will eventually go away. Another idea: have Paraydars on duty strictly for enforcing silence during diwans.

3) Langar Maryada --- In some Gurudwaras i have been to, i see many little kids doing seva in the Langar. I love to see children get involved in Seva, but they must follow the rules. Most of them are just too young to know about rules, keeping Langar sucha etc...for example, not washing their hands, touching the karchi to the plate, touching water container to the glass, serving wth uncovered hair. These kid's parents must not have explained to them how to serve langar, and may think it is not a big deal, but it is a HUGE deal. There are many Amritdharis who want to be jooth free, but may be getting served by a karchi which touched the jootha food of a smoker. Just two days ago i asked a kid who was serving langar if he washed his hands, and he said "yes, i did at home". I can guarantee that at the local gurudwra i go to, there are many kids who go to the washroom, play on the ground, eat etc...and then just start serving langar without washing hands because they "already washed them once when they came to the Gurudwara. I have even sen a kid a walking around serving jalaybees and eating them while serving. These little kids don't know the rules, it is upto us to teach them.

what should be done?--- talk to the committee and have people on duty to enforce Langar soocham. Educate the kids, ask them if they washed their hands with soap, make announcements on stage to tell people about the rules, and tell parents to tell their kids, make flyers with rules etc. If we don't do anything about this, then it is partly OUR fault that the langar being served is not sucha.

There are many other things that occur in the Gurudawara that must be controlled. I'm not coming out here to complain, i am coming out here to share my views and to ask the Sangat to make a difference in our Gurudwaras. I know there are many Gurudwaras that are keeping the rules enforced, and that is really good, but some Gurudwaras are slacking. If anyone has any information/advice etc...please post! Lets try to make Gurudwara a place where we can sit in the Darbar, and listen to Gurbani without any distractions, have sucha Langar etc...because it will benefit EVERYONE and as Sikhs we don't turn our head the other way when there is a problem, or expect someone else to do it, we take action and do it ourselves, especially where respect of Guru Ji and Sangat is involved.

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another thing

no offense

but

should there be a rule for pai's to tie their beard while serving parshad because i have observed on many occasions that the dhari sometimes falls into the parshad bowl..

and

once i had a akhand path down my house and we went to drop the pai off and he said he will do ardas for me.. and i said what for.. and he goes he will do ardas for my belly to go down :( i had a weight problem then.. not a massive problem but i dont know how people observe everything.. and this other guy was with me and he started laughing :(

pai behaviour? its not just the people visiting that need to behave its the people who work at the gurdwara 2..

sorry if ive offended any1..

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No talking in the Darbar. --- The Darbar is a place for Sangat to listen to Gurbani, not to listen to people talking about there lives. I have seen so often (sorry to say, especially on the female side) people siting in groups just chatting it up, not listening to Kirtan themselves, and distracting others from enjoying the Kirtan. This is disrespectful to Guru Ji, if you want to talk, just leave.

what should be done? --- we should make it OUR personal duty to inform anyone talking in the Darbar Hall to please be quiet, and also talk to the Gurudwra committee to regularly announce the importance of silence in the Darbar. Don't be afraid that someone may get mad at you, it is our DUTY to enforce respect of Guru Ji.

I think this should be keeping quite instead of no talking in The Guru Darbar, meaning not speaking loudly over the Sound System. I personally wouldnt think Guru Ji would have a problem with us speaking in the Darbar, at least not over the paat. If we wasnt allowed to speak in the Guru Darbar how can we learn off each other?

2) Controlling Children --- for many people a Gurudwara is like a playground for children. I know it is natural for a kid to enjoy playing with other kids, but there is a time and place for everything, and playing in the Darbar is not appropriate.

what should be done?--- Any kid running, yelling, and making a disturbance in the Darbar should be dealt with right away. Go straight to the parent(s), and explain that the child's behaviour is disturbing Sangat who wants to focus, and if the kid can't be controlled, then the parent should take the kid out of Darbar hall. I especially feel for my sisters, you are trying to listen to kirtan, but having to 'tune out' the kids who are yelling and rolling around. It is our duty to enforce Maryada instead of just hoping the problwm will eventually go away. Another idea: have Paraydars on duty strictly for enforcing silence during diwans.

I havnet really seen kids that make that much noise. Are we talking 1-5 yr olds? Or are we talking 7-10 yr olds? Because i think 7-10 yr olds make more noise than 1-5 yr olds.

Aww, i remeber this one time i saw this todler, and her mum Matha Takt to go out of the Darbar and her baby Matha Takt just by copying but done it totally in the wrong direction, Awww. Then Geanni ji started laughing. And as the todler was walking out she started Hatt Jooring at the Bibi's, then shes said Bye! LOL.

3) Langar Maryada --- In some Gurudwaras i have been to, i see many little kids doing seva in the Langar. I love to see children get involved in Seva, but they must follow the rules. Most of them are just too young to know about rules, keeping Langar sucha etc...for example, not washing their hands, touching the karchi to the plate, touching water container to the glass, serving wth uncovered hair. These kid's parents must not have explained to them how to serve langar, and may think it is not a big deal, but it is a HUGE deal. There are many Amritdharis who want to be jooth free, but may be getting served by a karchi which touched the jootha food of a smoker. Just two days ago i asked a kid who was serving langar if he washed his hands, and he said "yes, i did at home". I can guarantee that at the local gurudwra i go to, there are many kids who go to the washroom, play on the ground, eat etc...and then just start serving langar without washing hands because they "already washed them once when they came to the Gurudwara. I have even sen a kid a walking around serving jalaybees and eating them while serving. These little kids don't know the rules, it is upto us to teach them.

what should be done?--- talk to the committee and have people on duty to enforce Langar soocham. Educate the kids, ask them if they washed their hands with soap, make announcements on stage to tell people about the rules, and tell parents to tell their kids, make flyers with rules etc. If we don't do anything about this, then it is partly OUR fault that the langar being served is not sucha.

There are many other things that occur in the Gurudawara that must be controlled. I'm not coming out here to complain, i am coming out here to share my views and to ask the Sangat to make a difference in our Gurudwaras. I know there are many Gurudwaras that are keeping the rules enforced, and that is really good, but some Gurudwaras are slacking. If anyone has any information/advice etc...please post! Lets try to make Gurudwara a place where we can sit in the Darbar, and listen to Gurbani without any distractions, have sucha Langar etc...because it will benefit EVERYONE and as Sikhs we don't turn our head the other way when there is a problem, or expect someone else to do it, we take action and do it ourselves, especially where respect of Guru Ji and Sangat is involved.

My cousin had food poisonning from the langer once. I think everyone of all ages should follow modern rules of Food Hygiene, i also think beards should be covered with some sort of net while preparing langer as well as serving langer.

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I think this should be keeping quite instead of no talking in The Guru Darbar, meaning not speaking loudly over the Sound System. I personally wouldnt think Guru Ji would have a problem with us speaking in the Darbar, at least not over the paat. If we wasnt allowed to speak in the Guru Darbar how can we learn off each other?

sorry, i gotta disagree there with ya....The darbar is not a Discussion area when the guru is being read. You are there to listen to the Guru, not to you neighbour. If you need to ask a question, one should wait till they are outside of the Darbaar. There might be someone sitting next to you who is actually trying to listen and meditate. It is not only polite to your fellow Sangat, but Respectfull to the Guru. When in the presense of the Guru there can be only one speaker at one time either You or the Guru.

Waheguru

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I said at least over the paat. But i do know when not to speak in the Darbaar, i know i shouldnt speak over the Guru. But sometimes i might forget some of the stuff said (I really dont mean to) so it'll kinda be hard me asking for meanings outside the darbaar. Im also dyslexic, but im trying not to use this as an excuss.

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My cousin had food poisonning from the langer once. I think everyone of all ages should follow modern rules of Food Hygiene, i also think beards should be covered with some sort of net while preparing langer as well as serving langer.

ummmmm sorry i find that funny...i mean why wear a net...if you think about the way that the did it in Guru Ji's time did they put nets over there beards????

I think that they should put the bowl in front of the beard so that the beard doesn't get into the parsad...yea i dunno I just a kid but I like it better the way they did things in the past....like the whole tissue thing i realize its more convenient but how did they get all the oil off?

Did they just rub there hands or did they wash it with water or what???? These are questions I think about in Gurdwara...

And...what is up with rubbing your nose when you matha thek...I am sooo confused when people do that...cuz someone said it was to ask for forgiveness, and others said it was very disrespectful to do....so i dunno....ohhh and very sorry if I was tooo bold on a matter...please correct me if I said anything wrong....

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I said at least over the paat. But i do know when not to speak in the Darbaar, i know i shouldnt speak over the Guru. But sometimes i might forget some of the stuff said (I really dont mean to) so it'll kinda be hard me asking for meanings outside the darbaar. Im also dyslexic, but im trying not to use this as an excuss.

I see your point. :)

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Got this from ss. Like to share with the sangat and discuss about it. If anyone wish to bring critcism of (Whats being said??). Please do with humbleness and scholary fashion. This forum has no place for cheap insults or slandering.

====================================================

There has been something on my mind for quite some time now. And i think we need to take action. It is in regards to Gurudwara etiquette. From what i have seen in some Gurudwaras, there seems to be a very relaxed mood when it comes to enforcing basic Maryada and rules. Here is a list of some things that i feel we need to enforce immediately...

1) No talking in the Darbar. --- The Darbar is a place for Sangat to listen to Gurbani, not to listen to people talking about there lives. I have seen so often (sorry to say, especially on the female side) people siting in groups just chatting it up, not listening to Kirtan themselves, and distracting others from enjoying the Kirtan. This is disrespectful to Guru Ji, if you want to talk, just leave.

what should be done? --- we should make it OUR personal duty to inform anyone talking in the Darbar Hall to please be quiet, and also talk to the Gurudwra committee to regularly announce the importance of silence in the Darbar. Don't be afraid that someone may get mad at you, it is our DUTY to enforce respect of Guru Ji.

2) Controlling Children --- for many people a Gurudwara is like a playground for children. I know it is natural for a kid to enjoy playing with other kids, but there is a time and place for everything, and playing in the Darbar is not appropriate.

what should be done?--- Any kid running, yelling, and making a disturbance in the Darbar should be dealt with right away. Go straight to the parent(s), and explain that the child's behaviour is disturbing Sangat who wants to focus, and if the kid can't be controlled, then the parent should take the kid out of Darbar hall. I especially feel for my sisters, you are trying to listen to kirtan, but having to 'tune out' the kids who are yelling and rolling around. It is our duty to enforce Maryada instead of just hoping the problwm will eventually go away. Another idea: have Paraydars on duty strictly for enforcing silence during diwans.

3) Langar Maryada --- In some Gurudwaras i have been to, i see many little kids doing seva in the Langar. I love to see children get involved in Seva, but they must follow the rules. Most of them are just too young to know about rules, keeping Langar sucha etc...for example, not washing their hands, touching the karchi to the plate, touching water container to the glass, serving wth uncovered hair. These kid's parents must not have explained to them how to serve langar, and may think it is not a big deal, but it is a HUGE deal. There are many Amritdharis who want to be jooth free, but may be getting served by a karchi which touched the jootha food of a smoker. Just two days ago i asked a kid who was serving langar if he washed his hands, and he said "yes, i did at home". I can guarantee that at the local gurudwra i go to, there are many kids who go to the washroom, play on the ground, eat etc...and then just start serving langar without washing hands because they "already washed them once when they came to the Gurudwara. I have even sen a kid a walking around serving jalaybees and eating them while serving. These little kids don't know the rules, it is upto us to teach them.

what should be done?--- talk to the committee and have people on duty to enforce Langar soocham. Educate the kids, ask them if they washed their hands with soap, make announcements on stage to tell people about the rules, and tell parents to tell their kids, make flyers with rules etc. If we don't do anything about this, then it is partly OUR fault that the langar being served is not sucha.

There are many other things that occur in the Gurudawara that must be controlled. I'm not coming out here to complain, i am coming out here to share my views and to ask the Sangat to make a difference in our Gurudwaras. I know there are many Gurudwaras that are keeping the rules enforced, and that is really good, but some Gurudwaras are slacking. If anyone has any information/advice etc...please post! Lets try to make Gurudwara a place where we can sit in the Darbar, and listen to Gurbani without any distractions, have sucha Langar etc...because it will benefit EVERYONE and as Sikhs we don't turn our head the other way when there is a problem, or expect someone else to do it, we take action and do it ourselves, especially where respect of Guru Ji and Sangat is involved.

i remember when i was a kid, this is really embarassing for me 2 say this but :oops: i remember when there was a wedding and in the gurdwara i kept running around and playing tick..

and i remember when in the langar hall i used 2 play skiing because the floor was kind of wet

sorry just thought id tell u

i ask for forgiveness

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Aww, i remeber this one time i saw this todler, and her mum Matha Takt to go out of the Darbar and her baby Matha Takt just by copying but done it totally in the wrong direction, Awww. Then Geanni ji started laughing. And as the todler was walking out she started Hatt Jooring at the Bibi's, then shes said Bye! LOL.

Thats so cute! bless :)

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Totally agree with neos post.

Speaking during kirtan (gods praise) is damn right wrong and againts gurus jis wishes. We SHOULD take it in our hands to express this to the sangat (nicely.)

Infact theres piles of things that need to change with the gurudwara; lets just hope our generation do a better job of running them!

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they will only do a better job of running them if people like you fauge and neo start standing up in the local gurudwrara elections - and run for PARDAAN AND GEN SECRETARY and get elected probabaly by cheating. - getting all your relatives yuo havent even met to come and vote for you on election day (which incidently is probably the only day of the year they go to the gurdwara ).

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  • 2 months later...

I got some more from ss forum:

Here.. Some of the points might be same to orginal post :

Here ya go :D

i think that we should try to enforce proper etiquette in the gurdwara.. yesterday i noticed some very disturbing things...

naturally a lot of people were talking... a girl that I know was sitting with her eyes closed and then her sister (whos not into sikhi very much) came and disturbed her... and she opened her eyes and her sister was like.. "were you sleeping or something??"

soon they started some really upbeat kirtan... the girl in front of me practically started dancing to the beat while sitting there

and then my sister leans over to me during hukamnama and asks if i needed new shoes... because Shoe Warehouse is having a huge sale.

another time some kid came in eating a stick of cotton candy... WITH HIS MOTHER.

in the langar hall... everyone's always talking but no one really notices anymore because that's become the norm...

so anyways, we all know how fast things get passed around on the net, especially with email... here's a few things we should try to enforce..

Basics:

1. Cover your head

2. Wash hands (if your feet are dirty wash them too. Many gurdwaray have a separate place for washing feet. if not, wash them in the sink.)

3. Take shoes and socks off

Other stuff:

**most of these are common sense if you pay attention to number 4.

4. Keep in mind that sitting in darbaar where Guru Granth Sahib Jee is is the same thing as sitting in darbaar where Guru Nanak Dev jee/any other guru sahib is.. this point cant be stressed enough...most people would be more careful as to how they behave in darbaar if it was any other guru than guru granth sahib jee. Have as much respect, humility etc. in Guru Granth Sahib Jee's darbaar as you would in Guru Gobind Singh Jee's darbaar.

5. If someone has their eyes closed DO NOT DISTURB THEM (unless absolutely necessary). They are most likely concentrating on whats going on.. not sleeping.

6. When matha tekking, do it as if guru nanak dev jee is there... because he is.

7. Dont wear inappropriate clothing (i.e. tight clothes, shirts with low necks, shirts that show half your stomach, bright flashy sparkly suits, multicoloured suits, extravagant suits...)

8. Cover your head PROPERLY at all times. "it slipped off my head" shouldnt be an excuse.

9. Don't talk while in the darbaar, even if you can't understand doesnt mean other people aren't paying attention. Your talking will disturb them. Try to listen to whats going on and you'll catch onto a few things. Even if you dont, ask your parents or just keep quiet and do simran.

10. If you see a friend sitting nearby or walking across, dont start frantically waving at him/her. If you must talk to him/her right then, go outside and do it.

11. NO TALKING whatsoever during ardaas.

12. When getting parshad, put your hands up high so that its easier for the sevadaar and make sure to use both hands.

13. When eating parshad, dont play around with it.. just accept it and eat it.

14. Do not DANCE, or even move your shoulders to the beat when kirtan is going on. Its not bhangra.

15. Dont pay attention to what other people are wearing.

16. LISTEN to what is going on.

17. keep cellphones, pagers etc off.. or if you must, keep it atleast on vibe so that it disturbs no one but you.

18. If your cell DOES ring, take it out immediately and turn it off. Don't leave it ringing in your pocket/purse thinking that no one else can hear it. DO NOT EVER talk on your phone in teh darbaar.

19. If you see someone else talking, kindly ask them to quiet down.

20. for ANY seva in the darbaar, your hands MUST be washed and you should have a hazooria (long piece of cloth around your neck)

21. For deg di seva, hands obviously must be thoroughly washed. When giving out deg, don't talk to people.. dont even sing "satnam vaheguru" (or whatever they're singing) with the rest of the sangat because its possible that some spit from your mouth could fall into the deg. the best thing to do would be to wrap your hazooria around your mouth.

22. In the langar hall, while doing seva, hands MUST once again be thoroughly washed. This is very important.

23. If you're serving langar, dont talk to teh people unnecessarily.

24. When your serving OR eating langar, your head must be covered.

25. Dont go boasting to people of how much seva you do (or how many times you go to the gurdwara), this just defeats the whole purpose.

26. The Gurdwara is not a social place. You dont go to meet up with people or to show off your new suit.

This is just the beginning of the list, please add ANYTHING you can think of. i know its a little unorganized, if someone wants to categorize everything feel free to do so. When we have a list that covers everything people can send it out to others.

**Please add more**

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  • 2 months later...

Waheguru.

At my local gdwara the committee peeps on stage r always tellin people, esp the bibia, to be quiet and once a raagi even told them to be quiet in between shabads, but still they don't listen - so what can be done??

I don't think people, esp girls, shd come into darbar sahib with open hair, nor should anyone wear sleeveless tops or shorts or 3/4 length trousers.

Ladies (men mentioned in earlier posts) working in the kitchen and serving food shd always have their hair tied back - I've often seen women, who r attending a langar/akand paath, have most of their hair sticking out in all sorts of strange styles, so that they can show off the latest hair fashion, yet their chuni is barely clinging to their heads - and they think that's covering their heads!! Also, all people doing seva in the langar hall shd do simran instead of talking - many stand around with the illusion of doing seva, but r only there to talk 2 their friends.

Waheguru

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I don't think people, esp girls, shd come into darbar sahib with open hair, nor should anyone wear sleeveless tops or shorts or 3/4 length trousers.

i don't agree with this.

Ladies (men mentioned in earlier posts) working in the kitchen and serving food shd always have their hair tied back - I've often seen women, who r attending a langar/akand paath, have most of their hair sticking out in all sorts of strange styles, so that they can show off the latest hair fashion, yet their chuni is barely clinging to their heads - and they think that's covering their heads!!

if the chunni's on the head, tha's all that matters. who cares what they do with their hair. tha's their business with the Guru.

i agree with everything said in Neo's posts. but how are you people gonna deal with it? what i'd suggest is that you make people aware of this common courtesies and then try to make sure it happens.

i hate to say it, but as orthodox as that kinda behaviour seems, it's exactly what we need in Gurudwarey today... especially with people talking in the Darbar while Kirtan's going on.

and the kids! oh my goodness! i can't count how many times i've been disturbed by people's children who find it amusing to run around the women and girl as fast as they can without falling onto someone!

i love kids probably more than other people. but when you go to a Gurudwara, please try to make sure your kids aren't disturbing others! it's even worse when your kid disturbs someone and you don't even TRY to tell your kid what proper behaviour is!

and the ladies with their separate cliques that chat about everything EXCEPT for Gurbani... maaan! what do you do with these people?!

argh!

ok, nuff of me gettin annoyed here. lol...

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i don't agree with this.

Why don't u agree - just curious...coz I've heard mixed opinions on this subject...

if the chunni's on the head, tha's all that matters. who cares what they do with their hair. tha's their business with the Guru.

Sorry - misunderstanding - I mean literally their chuni is barely covering an inch of hair and I don't think that's covering their hair, esp around food!

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3/4 leg trousers aint too bad but sleeveless tops is going a bit far. remember there are people trying to cleanse their minds hearts and souls in the Guru's Darbaar and u may cause an unintentional distraction. yeh i know they shudcnt be looking or they shuld be focusing but no ones perfect.... we all have to keep trying someway dont we. be a bit modest when dressed, this should be the one place we leave our ego at the door.

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khalsafateh, although i agree that there's a way to dress depending on where you're going, if these girls don't have issues wearing shorts, sleeveless tops and leaving their hair open in front of their parents, then they should feel free to do so in the Darbar as well.

as for the idea that there are people goin to the Darbar to cleanse their minds and souls... yeah, sure they're there to do that. but consider this a test for them to remain focused on what's really important.

it's like this... if a prostitute wouldn't be turned away from the Guru's Darbar for her occupation, why should someone else be turned away because they're wearing shorts, or a sleeveless top, or have their hair open, or all of those things?

in the end, what you do at the Darbar is between you and the Guru. if you wanna show the Guru how nice your skin looks in shorts and a tank top, then feel free to do so. lol...

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