Beatles song about singhs! wahoooooooooooooooooo

[Guest Maha_Pavitar]

Veerji..I'm a little confused..you tell us to repeat the Guroo's message (Fateh) but yet restrict lalleshvari veerji from saying 'jai shri krishna'? Gurmat is based on love and acceptance, and as veerji has explained these are all characteristics of the divine..

The start of Ardaas reads 'Sri Bhagautee jee Sahai' so would this be wrong then?

What about when Guroo jee writes Gobind, Raam, Narayan, Nirankar, Krishna..? Veerji, we are all molded from the same clay..Saying 'Shalom', 'Jai Mata', 'Allah', or even Dhan Guroo is all the same..Akal Purakh is endless, formless, all-knowing, and immaculate (Niranjan).

'saval sundar ramaaiya'

[HeyDudesWassup]

I understand lalleswari's post but I'm just trying to say that we should keep it SIKH.

Of course God is universal but do we as Sikhs say stuff like "Amen" , "Father Son and Holy Ghost".

Bhul Chuk Maaf

[Guest Sehjo Kaur]

Good inspiring post Lalleshwari.

[Guest Maha_Pavitar]

I think Lalleshvari veerji summed it up perfectly by saying:

Wherever my Beloved choses to unveil His Beauty I go! Whatever name he choses to use I go! And this is the liberty Sikhi gives me and no other religion gives me: worship Akal Purakh without boundaries!

Love is my religion and I follow its caravan wherever it goes!

Sikhi gives us this liberty, embrace the fascinations of other faiths and use them as links of a chain..all leading to his charna..

Whoever has heard of me, let him prepare to come and see me; whoever desires me, let him search for me. He will find me - then let him choose none other than I. Shams-i Tabriz

[HeyDudesWassup]

Correct me if I am wrong but if we worship Akal Purakh without boundaries then why do Sikhs have a certain identity? Why even have a religon, why not belong to no religon but still be a man of God?

[Guest Sehjo Kaur]

Very good point Ji. I asked people the same question, and all I got was, don't try to divide people and accept all. PC.

[sikh_fauge]

Exactly, whilst we should be tolerant and loving and compassionate to all, i dont think we then have to go to the extreme where we start adopting other peoples faiths. Im not directing this at anyone, but i notice this happens alot.

[Guest Maha_Pavitar]

Dear Veera,

In my humble opinion..Sikhi/Gurmat rather is a path of life (see dharam vs. religion thread). It is the path of righteousness, Bhai Dya came first...Degh comes before Tegh..

Veerji, I think this is what you're asking:

See as veerji explained when you ponder into other faiths and see their devotion, love, read their beautiful scriptures..you do not become Christian or Buddhist, but you become closer to YOUR beloved. Many people obtain great sources of inspiration from Gurmat Sangeet or the stories of our Sahibazaday for example, it is not necessary for them to become Sikh but whatever path they glide on..our dharam has blessed them with some virtue, inspiration, love, etc to help them on their way!

A Sikh is a lover..a seeker..to show acceptance, interest, or have inspiration from other sources of love is more SIKH than you could ever imagine. How many other faiths allow for this veera?

We are very lucky..our identities..our dharam..our acceptance..this makes us who we are.

See what Guroo Jee says in this beautiful shabad..'follow in the footsteps', learn from anyone..be inspired from nature, music, other faiths, people..Akal Purakh has made these all for a reason..

Have a beautiful day

jinee maeraa piaaraa raaviaa thin peeshhai laag firaao ||

I follow in the footsteps of those who enjoy the Love of my Beloved.

kar mi(n)nath kar jodharree mai prabh milanai kaa chaao ||1||

I beg of them, I implore them; I have such a yearning to meet God! ||1||

[sikh_fauge]

Cant knock ur post sis!

I bow before thee

[HeyDudesWassup]

See as veerji explained when you ponder into other faiths and see their devotion, love, read their beautiful scriptures..you do not become Christian or Buddhist, but you become closer to YOUR beloved.

If I read other scriptures I feel more confused and bewildered and not closer to my beloved. What if they are contradictory? So what do we do then?

Gobind Sadan anyone? http://gobindsadan.org/index.shtml

Bhul Chuk Maaf

[Guest Maha_Pavitar]

Veerji,

Well, like I said veerji Gurmat is a lifestyle..it teaches you how to perceive, you will learn responsibility and a finer sense of self. If something causes you confusion or bewilderment then perhaps it is not for you. Everyone has their own opinions, and I'm sure we'll all stumble across things that are contradictory. All I can advise is that you use your judgement..Think of it as..will this help me on my path of love?

I'm sure you listen to music, I stay away from songs with filthy lyrics because all it would do is disgust me or make me feel angry right?

Yet there are some songs not related to Sikhi at all, but bring out feelings of longing for Guroo Jee..so that can only be beneficial

Virhaki Agni Mein Pal Pal Tapti Hai

Ab To Sasein Teri Mala Japti Hai

Tere Liye Tere Liye

I would suggest reading the divine poety of the Sufi Rumi (my personal favourite)..

Sikh_fauge no bowing allowed, just being a sister, if you want me to give you some good book titles or articles let me know bro..

[sikh_fauge]

Aho, list them please!

And i totally agree with everything your saying! Keep up the wise words sister!

(stands up and dusts his knees)

[Guest Maha_Pavitar]

By the way Sikh_fauge veerji..are you from Houston??

[sikh_fauge]

Urmmmm nope! Im from iran!!! cough cough

Nah im from ing-laaaind

[A.S.KANG]

fauge where abouts from ingland are you???

[Guest Javanmard]

Everyone has a distinctive identity and so does Sikhi. I am a Sikhi and saying "Jay Shri Krishna" when I salute a Vaishnav does not make me less of a Sikh. It really gets to me this whole emphasis on identity but when you live Sikhi it just becomes a secondary issue because you have become Sikhi. I don't go around saying: Look guys I am a Sikh!! Because it's quite obvious!!!

identity is like jam: the less you have of it the more you spread it!!!!

[A.S.KANG]

lalleshwari i love that jam example. but sikhi is like - STRAWBERRY JAM ot marmide or marmalade. Mwah!

[HeyDudesWassup]

I am a Sikhi and saying "Jay Shri Krishna" when I salute a Vaishnav does not make me less of a Sikh.

Look guys I am a Sikh!! Because it's quite obvious!!!

Sorry but I disagree, it is not obvious. Look at Badal, sure he has the identity but is he really a Sikh.

Also do you see any Vaishnavs on this website who you could say "Jay Shri Krishna" to?

[Guest Maha_Pavitar]

I think that is what veerji is saying..that your 'Sikhi' is higher than identity, because anyone can play dress-up :roll:

It really gets to me this whole emphasis on identity but when you live Sikhi it just becomes a secondary issue because you have become Sikhi.

Why not start a new discussion, it is no longer about the beatles song, what do you say veerji?

[Guest Javanmard]

I guess you're right but then again ALL YOU NEED IS PYAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAR tatarararara

[Guest Maha_Pavitar]

aah yes..love..sweet love..'it's the only thing that there's just soooo little of'

[Orchids]

did any1 read my replies :roll: :roll:

and had a look at that site?

about sardars appearances in various music videos

[HeyDudesWassup]

From poster on Sikhnet:

We all know that Guru Gobind singh ji was not a believer in the existence of Hindu Goddesses and Avtars or incarnations.He believed in formless ONE ,the almighty God.But still there is a tendency to mislead people that he was a believer in them.

Guru ji used language which was popular at that time and mythological lores of the time, which people understood easily and believed in, to infuse martial spirt among lifeless Indians who had lost all courage to face tyrants in the battlefield.To do that he used very powerful words to instill fearlessness in them by narrating these lores.That had telling effect and the tyrants were driven away.istory of Khalsa is testimony to that.It was his revolution and his only.

We ae to remember the time in which he waged his struggle against all odds with firm belief in almighty. A great disservice is being done to Guru ji by people, at one hand, who don't belong to Sikhi and say that he was a believer in Devis and on the other hand by so called Sikh scholars who may not have any spiritual experience themselves and suggest that this is not Guru's writing and that is not Guru j's writing.

Least we can do is to desist from creating avoidable controversies till Akal takhat decides on this issue.We will do a great service to Sikhi if we listen to Bhai gurdas ji's advice in the following:

Bhai Gurdas in his Vaar 16, Pauri 3, Bhai Ji uses the metaphor of lotus and observes thus : “Though a lotus uses water and oozes for its growth and nourishment, yet remains detached and unsoiled by it. The lotus opens up joyously by the first ray of the sun, and bows in reverence. a Sikh may perform rituals and Karmkand but like lotus, he is unaffected spiritually, remains pure as his soul is inwardly in tune with Gur shabad.â€

The folowing is good read by a gurmukh which i found at Gurmat discuusions.

http://groups.yahoo.com/group/gurmatdiscus...s/message/10069

Subject: Re: writing on Bhagauti - sword

Dear Pritpal Singh Soorae Jee,

Probably you want to know what Sri Bhagauti Jee stands for.

Sri Bhagauti Jee ia also called Bhavani, Chandi, Durga, Jagdumbay and many

other names.

Sri Guru Gobind Singh Jee in is Composition 24 Avtars, in verse 29 of his

Introuctory description stated -

"Pritham Kaal sabh jug to Tata. Ta tai bhio Tej Bikhiata.

Soei Bhavani Naam Kahai. Jin sagri ye Sirast Opaei.." 29.

Just as Chandi, Bhavani, Durga or Bhagauti is the Divine Power of Creation

and Destruction, verily God Himself, similarly the other Divine Name is

ascribed as Kaal (God's Functionary Quality of Destruction). This unseen

Divine Potential is present in all creatures and everywhere, called SOUL,

the Creative and Destructive Power of God, which in Sri Guru Granth Sahib is

called SABAD or Guru or SAt Guru or Sat Guru Poora, verily God Himself in

Immanent Form.

You will find in Composition Akal Ustat, Satguru Jee has saluted God,

both as Akal (Beyond the scope of Death - Eternal), as well as Kaal (The

Creator of Destruction). Both are God's Functionary Names. The Guru states

- "Akal Purkh ki Racha Han Nai. Sarab Kaal Jee di Racha Ham Nai. Sarbh Loh

Ji ki Racha Ham Nai. (Sarab Loh is the mightiest of all the metals - Here

means Mightiest God be his Protector. Also Sarb Loh is the cheaterst metal -

here means the Protector and Cherisher of the most humble ones).

In Chandi Critar (2) - the Guru starts - "Sri Bhagauti Ji Sahai". Also in

Var Durga ki - The Guru salutes to "Sri Bhagauti Ji Sahai."

In Var Durga ki, the Guru states - "Prithan Bhagauti simar kai Guru

Nanaklaei Dhaey."

In Gian Parbodh Granth, the Guru first salutes to "Sri Bhagauti Ji Sahai."

In Composition 'Chrtro-Pakhiaan' - the Guru salues to "Sri Bhagauti Ji

Sahai)."

As stated above in Durga ki Var, the Guru states, "I frst think of the

Pritam Bhagauti The Primal Being or God), then Guru Nanak ----.

Clearly the Guru when he mentions of Bhagauti, he refers to the Mighty

Potential of God Pervading in the Universe in Immanent Form. The Guru

clarifies that all creatures like Ram, Krishna, and other Avtars derive

their Potential from God alone. In short there is only ONE LIFE IN

EXIXTENCE, all creatures are only the manfestation of the One Potential.

"Sagal Bsthar Eik tai Bhaey." Sri Sukhmani Sahib. In all both Highest and

in lowest, only His Potential works.

The Guru took pains to describe in detail Sri Bhagauti Ji in the First

Chriter of Composition 'Chritro Pakhiaan' - Seven full pages.

The Guru here states "O Lord, You are the symbolic of the Broad Sword, the

Arrow, the Dagger.... You have all the qualities of Vishnu, Brahma and

Shiv. It is Your Arrows and Swords, which annihilate the armies. It was You

in the guise of Narsingh smashed Harnaukash. In the form of Varha and Boar,

You bore the weight of te Earth. Your Potential in Ram killed Ravana, and it

was Your Potential in Krishna, Kamsa was killed.----

The Eulogy of Sri Bhagauti Ji, verily God Himself appears in Krishna Avtar

also, which runs into four pages, descriing the Creative and Destrctive

Potential of the Infinite Lord, in the form of all Arms and weapons. One

finds the same qualities of God as the Creator Lord and also the Destroyer,

the qualities as described in Sri Guru Granth Sahib as Guru - Permeshwar.

Sat Guru Jee apart from the above mentioned Composition, described His

Priases in the Chandi Chritra (Ukti Bilas), Chandi Chritra II and in Var

Durga Ji Ki.

Please do not be misled by the Hindu names of Chandi, Durga, Bhavani,

Bhagauti as Hindu Devies. God is both Mother and Father, and has countless

names and forms described. Those who unwisely limit His existence to mere

their own religious names, and pick up quarrels with others who describe the

same Lord in using different names, they have only befooled themselves and

have been the instruments of all the hatred and scambles for nothing.

Gur Tej Singh of IOSS - I happen to get hold of your editiorial for the

Sikh Studies, which Hundals sent to all through his e mail message on

November 23, 2000. In this editorial you have completely detached your self

being the Sikh of especially of Sri Guru Gobind Singh Jee as you have

ridiculed the Divine Writings shamelessly, as irrelevant. It is therefore a

sin to call your self and your associates, the followers of one perverted

scoundrel Gurbaksh Singh Kala Afghana, as Sikhs. If you have the slightest

conscience left in you, you walk out of the Sikh circle immediately - you

have ceased to be a Sikh, who has ridiculed the Divne Guru and His Writings

in most humiliating words. The sooner you cease your connections with

GURMAT, the better it will be for you and for us.

I shall deal with your shmeless writings separately.

Bhai CSJS Publishers, Amritsar. I request you to inform me of our decision

to publish a new book I am to start on writing, regarding my replies to te

writings of Kala Afghana, Gur Teja Singh and others. Please nform your

decision either way, and oblige. This is the last time I will be writng to

you on this subject.

DALIP SINGH

http://groups.yahoo.com/group/gurmatdiscus...s/message/10069

[HeyDudesWassup]

Waheguru Ji Ka Khalsa!

Waheguru Ji Ki Fateh!!

S Devinder Singh Ji was wondering why I did not respond to this article, written by some "Bhai Sahib" Kirpal Singh Gill (I do not know this person). It can be read at:

http://www.portalmarket.com/earthportals/P...nger/nanak.html

As we know, this article alleges that birth of Guru Nanak had been predicted in various places in the Vedas and the Puranas several thousand years ago. Even though I feel flattered by the desperation of Hindus to influence the Sikhs any way they can, I have been indifferent towards this article.

I agree with S Serjinder Singh Ji. Looking at the source of this information, it seems to be simply a new strategy, with the Vedic passages invented to make the sikhs revere some ancient scriptures and thus make them subconsciously respect some old Indian practices that Guru Ji had rejected. Even with expertise in the Sanskrit language and the Vedas, it would be very difficult to determine the authenticity of such materials. Interpolations could have been cleverly made in the recent centuries.

Meanwhile, I agree with others also. Even though this particular article could confuse many weak Sikhs, we do not need to waste time and energy to prove it false. Rather, we need to learn how to recruit such propaganda so that only truth is victorious in the end. Guru Ji teaches us to accommodate all religions with open arms. We do not have to be afraid of becoming assimilated by any religion. This can not happen as long as we follow the discipline prescribed by Guru Gobind Singh Ji, without any modifications of our own. In fact preserving our distinctness is one important purpose of this discipline.

Many sikhs feel that their Sikhi is in danger when, for example, the Hindu ancestry of the Gurus is mentioned, or when some Avatar is mentioned. This is a sign of weakness. It is pointless to fight any references made to our ancestors. Most of the Sikhs from India have Hindu ancestry also. Denying a fact is not going to make it go away. Such acts are rather hypocritical when people inside the ?sikh? circles continue to worship caste pedigree and genealogy. With saboteurs inside our own clan, we do not need any outside forces to destroy us.

Sri Naranjan Singh Ji used to quote a phrase, "Vrukshum Moolum Moolum," meaning that a tree is only as strong as its roots. In other words:

Only proper Sikh lifestyle and correct Sikh outlook can protect us from extraneous influences. This is the real battleground. It is not somewhere outside. We need to develop innovative methods of promoting this understanding among our youth. GurSikhs relinquish all prior links when they become residents of Anandpur Sahib. Today our father is Sri Guru Gobind Singh Ji, and our mother is Mata Sahib Kaur Ji. We have no other affiliation caste or genealogy to talk of.

sBu ko mIqu hm Awpn kInw hm sBnw ky swjn ] dUir prwieE mn kw ibrhw qw mylu kIE myrY rwjn ] 3 ] (SGGS 671:8)

Others who are ambivalent about their lineage will continue to be exposed to Subterfuge in disguises. Those Sikhs who have a pure and clear faith in the Guru have nothing to be afraid of. If a web site promotes Guru Nanak, on the basis of Vedas, more power to it. Can we use their activities in a positive manner? Guru?s Sikhs welcome close friendship with everyone, but continue to stay distinctly Sikh.

Waheguru Ji Ka Khalsa!

Waheguru Ji Ki Fateh!!

Yuktanand Singh

Saline, Michigan

[Guest Javanmard]

zzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz