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REAL SPIRITUAL PRACTICE, PARENTS FIRST. MUST READ KHALSA JIS


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VaheGuruJiKhalsaVaheGuruJiKiFateh!

jjj i have do admit i do think exactly like you in some phases in my life... i feel like renouncing everything and everyone and just having that all important fundamental FAITH in Maharaaj.

But that thinking does not last... wether that is for the better or not i dont know. But its difficult put in to practice. I do agree that not everyone has the faith they should. i apologise for my earlier remarks.. the products of an unclear mind.

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Ok jjj we get your point, you dont beleive in Sants, only SGGS, your getting slightly annoying with all them posts, did u know that you can use just ONE post for everthing that you want to say?...You beleive what you have to beleive and I will beleive what i want to beleive.

Fateh

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Ok jjj we get your point, you dont beleive in Sants, only SGGS, your getting slightly annoying with all them posts, did u know that you can use just ONE post for everthing that you want to say?...You beleive what you have to beleive and I will beleive what i want to beleive.

Fateh

i m not forcing u to blieve something that u dont want to believe, after all u will believe according to u r past karmas and sanskaars ! even if it is wrong or right.

how old r u 15-16? u still have a lot to learn

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jjj bhaaji,

Age has nothing to do with spirtuality... You seriously acting like a dhramraja here.

In gurughar, youngest guroo har krishan ji who was 8 yrs old got gurgaddi!!!!!!!!!!!!

Age has nothing to do with it!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

how old r u 15-16? u still have a lot to learn
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jjj: just read through this thread again from the beginning. Some of your comments are inspiring, but the recurring theme throughout your posts is a sense of arrogance and narrow-mindedness. There are some good things in your posts, but its all a matter of filtering them through.

Also, on the back of some of your posts, I would just like to ask you what your spiritual state was when you made the following childish thread:

http://www.sikhawareness.com/sikhawareness...ight=monay+lion

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jjj bhaaji,

Age has nothing to do with spirtuality... You seriously acting like a dhramraja here.

In gurughar, youngest guroo har krishan ji who was 8 yrs old got gurgaddi!!!!!!!!!!!!

Age has nothing to do with it!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

NEO Singh, I dont know what you did to my beautiful Nick "jjj" so now I have to come with this new nick.

As for your post.

1)You are right Age has nothing to do with Spirituality or a Spiritual person, because spiritual people are beyond maya, they have transcended the effects of maya, age, and the 5 evils & Guru Harkrishan was a Satguru... He transcended all of this !

We are filled with rogs, even the desire to meet God is a rog, although it is a good rog and it disappears when God is met.

"Jo desai so so rogi, rog rehat mera satgur jogi"

"Everywhere I go around I see people with diseases, my satguru alone is the one who is free from all diseases."

2)Age has everything to do with your mind and your mind influences the way you think, the decisions you make and the way you tread the spiritual path !

In some ways I feel that your posts are highly impractical and your thinking is based in just mere reading but not on practical looks of the world.

If age has nothing to do with you .. then why does a 5 year old kid do the things he does and why does his thinking change so dramatically after another 50 years !

Age is part of maya and like maya it influences us in everyway.

Young people usually have a restless mind, an agressive mind filled with energy , a mind that is no stable or one-pointedness. People who are young on the spiritual path have a wandering mind... and as they grow older.. there mind becomes Sehaj (restful) .. as it learns everything and when the mind becomes Sehaj .. it learns to become Spiritual and it is after that the age doesnt have any effect on you.

Guru Harkrishan is SATGURU. We cant place ourselves there. The Love of God of Guru Harkrishan is UNIMAGINABLE AND EXTREMELY BEYOND COMPREHENSION.

People who do meet God at early age.. do so becoz of Kirpa(Grace). Otherwise age has all the effects on minds thinking

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jjj,

Also you may want to look at this thread:

http://www.gursikhijeevan.com/community/ph...1&i=2767&t=2767

Its calling Fighting back this Disbeleif in saints.....

Enjoy Reading!!! :D :D

N30 Singh, Kindly take my advice with a cool mind and without getting heated up to much and I know it is easy to get you heated up , becoz you are a stronger believer in Sants (as there is no such thing as sants except Guru Sahib).

Please your posting and giving me articles to read is not a practical thing ! This is not practical spiritual practice to read articles written by sikh historians and other fellow sikhs and draw out logical conclusions.

There are more people who will talk and make articles but will not do any real PRACTICAL WORK.

Have you met personally any Sants? Go out , see the practical world. Bhakti exists in practice and not in articles on Gursikhi Jeevan.

Gursikhi Jeevan is a grace of God that can not be put down into a mere article

If we have any doubt about anything we will go and ask DIRECT to Sri Guru Granth Sahib. Why should we listen to suleman tape or go ask some sant. Just becoz they are filled with some little suspense or excitement ! ANSWER ME THAT

If we have any question we will ask DIRECT to Guru Nanak Dev Ji, Why do we need to read articles to make our understanding clear? and follow Sants who might have already left this world. ANSWER ME THAT

If you call upone Guru Nanak Dev ji, Guru jee will appear to you at once and deliver you. Can you expect the same from a SANT? Answer me that

Dont we have faith in Guru Sahib? Why dont we talk to DIRECTLY with Guru Sahib about all this? Why do we need to post such articles me about Sants. Do these articles come from Guru Sahib? Does it have Guru Sahib designation underneath it ?

moreover neo singh. If Guru Nanak with the all-power Satguru is on our side..then why do we need to look for sants?

are we not satisfied with SGGS as our Satguru that we need to look for guidance and inspiration somewhere else?

These are basic questions that we need to ask ourselves?

If SGGS , the all powerful Guru Nanak is with us. Then why??? do we look for guidance somewhere else wether it be a sant or anyone?? Why ????

Now dont get to much heated up and as Gursikh think of it with a cool-clear mind.

ANSWER ME ALL THAT QUESTIONS.

Now answer me one more Questions.

If Guru Nanak Dev ji really appeared to us. How many of us will go after a Sant ? Will you go after a Sant ?? Yes or No?

If No, then why do we go after Sants when Guru Jee is already present amongst us as SGGS !!! ANSWER me this question.

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NEO Singh, I dont know what you did to my beautiful Nick "jjj" so now I have to come with this new nick.

jjj singh ji, I have no idea what happened to your nick.

Check your pm.. i sent you the password reset.

N30 Singh, Kindly take my advice with a cool mind and without getting heated up to much and I know it is easy to get you heated up , becoz you are a stronger believer in Sants (as there is no such thing as sants except Guru Sahib).

I dont feel angry or anything but feel pitty for the groups and people because rest of the panth beleives in sants/mahapursh.

I dont like to play an pitty game of "using verses from sggs ji" to prove my point. As guroo maharaj says in japji that one shouldnt argue with fools... you can with no doubt join your "anti-sants groups" and it will not matter much to sants and their deeds or even panth to whole but rest of the panth whole heartdly beleives in sant mahapursh

Their sangund(smell) of prema bhakti towards guroo maharaj ji has spreaded all over and in sikh's heart..

how can you separate a sikh from their murshad... its like saying that "you can chop off atma in to peaces"...

If Guru Nanak Dev ji really appeared to us. How many of us will go after a Sant ? Will you go after a Sant ?? Yes or No?

If No, then why do we go after Sants when Guru Jee is already present amongst us as SGGS !!!

First of all in order to get a darshan of guroo nanak dev nirankar "you would need find someone who already met him". Thats where murshad concept comes in.

Best example is baba nand singh ji maharaj..sant baba nand singh maharaj didnt get darshan of guroo nanak dev nirankar without help of his murshad- sant baba harnam singh bhuchowalie kirpa on him.

As baba nand singh ji maharaj served him as his murshad with no doubts and served him as murdha(living dead). As gurbani mentions:

Murda Hoiii Na Murid na gali hov na...

Bhai Gurdas told this gurbani tuk by lookin at the life of bhai lehna who later became successor of guru nanak dev nirankar after serving him like an murda.

Baba Nand singh ji also served his murshad inorder to get prabhu prapti (darshan of guroo nanak dev nirankar from jagdi jot siri guroo granth sahib ji)....

Whether you like or not. All samprdha who had lienage(parampara) from guroo's time had a murshad concept whether they are- Nihangs, udasi, seeva-panthis, niramlie, taksal, rara sahib, nanaksar...you can go ahead and study mahapursh belong to their sampardha.

Now if you goin to say those sampardha and their contributions has nothing to do with sikhi then i ll leave it to your own ignorance and urgue to you think out of your little box and your little sikhi fantasy land you are living in. I leave you at that now....

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I dont like to play an pitty game of "using verses from sggs ji" to prove my point. As guroo maharaj says in japji that one shouldnt argue with fools... you can with no doubt join your "anti-sants groups" and it will not matter much to sants and their deeds or even panth to whole but rest of the panth whole heartdly beleives in sant mahapursh

Okay N3O Singh, well I know I am a big fool, so u shouldnt probably argue with me.

As for the whole panth believing in sants and mahapursh, tell me where was that beleif when all the ppl had there faith in Guru Nanak, Guru Angad , Guru Amar Das.. and there was NO middle person between a Sikh and the Guru.

Tell me during the time of the Gurus in Human form, was there any reliance upon any sants, except for Guru Mahraaj ! All Sikhs relied upon Guru Sahib.

ANSWER ME THAT.

Their sangund(smell) of prema bhakti towards guroo maharaj ji has spreaded all over and in sikh's heart..

how can you separate a sikh from their murshad... its like saying that "you can chop off atma in to peaces"...

Murshad means Guru and for the Sikh you took promise that from now on SGGS is your SATGURU after the amrit ceremony

First of all in order to get a darshan of guroo nanak dev nirankar "you would need find someone who already met him". Thats where murshad concept comes in.

I DONT believe. Its completely wrong ! Incorrect ! This is one of the major illusions luring around in Punjab and one of the major reasons set up by fake sants to get the youth attracted to them in there deras.

Answer me : You are trying to say that to meet Guru Nanak we need a Sant??? blah blah !

So why didnt Bhai Lehna follow a sant so that he could meet Guru Nanak.

In reality Guru Nanak himself came to Bhai Lehna, Bhai Lehna didnt even goto Guru Nanak.

Why didnt Bhagat Dhanna ?? and other numerous bhagats who were without Saints?

Why didnt Gursikhs go after a sant to meet Guru Gobind Singh ??

So now you are saying that to meet SGGS we need a sant??

Tell me where did Guru sahib say that?? that is false !

The correct answer is that if you want to meet GOD you need to goto SGGS !

and SGGS IS THE GURU NANAK DEV JI. SO YOU ARE DIRECTLY GIONG TO GURU NANAK, YOU DONT NEED A MIDDLE PERSON

So when u goto to the Gurudwara, you are saying that you dont get darshan of Guru Nanak !

N3O SINGH, It is not that we need a Sant. It is that our Love is less and it is not enough. When you get Love.. then u'll see.

Best example is baba nand singh ji maharaj..sant baba nand singh maharaj didnt get darshan of guroo nanak dev nirankar without help of his murshad- sant baba harnam singh bhuchowalie kirpa on him.

Again, that is a well-misunderstood example by you. Actually no one knows what happened there.

It was Baba Harnaam Singh that met Baba Nand Singh Sahib for a day or two only and this is Sat-Sangat and it happens with kirpa of God just to give a message or two to the bhagat.

In reality , I dont want to talk about these baba jis. What is the proof? YOu just read some stories from here and there and you start believing in it? These historians who write these stories will add there own hot masalas in it to make it look excited and you start believing.

As far as my information goes.. BABA NAND SINGH SAHIB HAD THE UTMOST RESPECT AND FAITH IN THE SGGS.

The story of BABA NAND SINGH SAHIB.. is his own story & I look inspiration from Guru Maharaaj story ONLY. You are not BABA NAND SINGH SAHIB !

I did not see Baba Nand Singh Sahib, I have not met him, why should I believe him !

I know only of Guru Sahib and Guru Sahib only !

"Sagal dwaar ko chad kein , gayo twaro dwaar, bhaie gaye ke aaj aas Gobind das tuhaar."

My Guru Sahib has set the best example and give us the greatest gift of amrit... that we no longer need a human guru to meet God. Only we need is the SGGS ! and the SGGS is our Guru Nanak.

As baba nand singh ji maharaj served him as his murshad with no doubts and served him as murdha(living dead). As gurbani mentions:

Murda Hoiii Na Murid na gali hov na...

Bhai Gurdas told this gurbani tuk by lookin at the life of bhai lehna who later became successor of guru nanak dev nirankar after serving him like an murda.

Baba Nand singh ji also served his murshad inorder to get prabhu prapti (darshan of guroo nanak dev nirankar from jagdi jot siri guroo granth sahib ji)....

I do know from a reliable source of how Baba Nand Singh had darshan or Guru Nanak and I also know of how much respect, love and faith BABA NAND SINGH SAHIB had for the SGGS.

Plus I am not a follower of BABA NAND SINGH SAHIB. I am follower of SGGS. I dont want to talk about BABA NAND SINGH SAHIB. I dont know him !

If you want to talk, then talk about GURU SAHIB. If you want to write some sakhis then write some sakhis about GURU SAHIB. Not BABAS.

Bhai Lehna served Guru Nanak .. OKAY ! and if u want to follow the example of Bhai Lehna then u should also serve Guru Nanak in the 11th form.

SGGS IS THE GURU NANAK SGGS IS THE GURU NANAK

Why dont you get that point ?? Guru Nanak is write in front of you. If you remember Once Guru Nanak.. He will come ang-sang to you !!! and not even a BABA CAN DO THAT !

Bhai Gurdas is talking about serving a SATGURU !!! not a baba !! and our SATGURU is SGGS !

There are many ppl who meet God only through SGGS, but I will not mention there names !

Whether you like or not. All samprdha who had lienage(parampara) from guroo's time had a murshad concept whether they are- Nihangs, udasi, seeva-panthis, niramlie, taksal, rara sahib, nanaksar...you can go ahead and study mahapursh belong to their sampardha.

I dont know any sampradha or lineage and I am not concerned with. I am ONLY CONCERNED ABOUT THE GURU-SIKH RELATION. That is my Sampradya.

Now if you goin to say those sampardha and their contributions has nothing to do with sikhi then i ll leave it to your own ignorance and urgue to you think out of your little box and your little sikhi fantasy land you are living in. I leave you at that now....

Bani Hai Guru.. Guru Hai Bani, wich Bani amritsare

Jo Prabh Ko mil bhoj hain Khoj shabad mein lein !

You have forgotten the above ^ i guess.

Only Gursahib, Gursikhs and shaheed Gursikhs have contributed to sikhi and no one else that I know of.

it seems you have been reading to much of sikh books written by historians and articles written by crazy ppl ! who dont do any practical work but only keep manipulating information.

If you stick to u r beleives then why dont u go and look out for a sant ? and u'll get to know something about this world that exists out of masala biographies of babas.

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salok ||

Shalok:

sa(n)th saran jo jan parai so jan oudhharanehaar ||

One who seeks the Sanctuary of the Saints shall be saved.

sa(n)th kee ni(n)dhaa naanakaa bahur bahur avathaar ||1||

One who slanders the Saints, O Nanak, shall be reincarnated over and over again. ||1||

asattapadhee ||

Ashtapadee:

sa(n)th kai dhookhan aarajaa ghattai ||

Slandering the Saints, one's life is cut short.

sa(n)th kai dhookhan jam thae nehee shhuttai ||

Slandering the Saints, one shall not escape the Messenger of Death.

sa(n)th kai dhookhan sukh sabh jaae ||

Slandering the Saints, all happiness vanishes.

sa(n)th kai dhookhan narak mehi paae ||

Slandering the Saints, one falls into hell.

sa(n)th kai dhookhan math hoe maleen ||

Slandering the Saints, the intellect is polluted.

sa(n)th kai dhookhan sobhaa thae heen ||

Slandering the Saints, one's reputation is lost.

sa(n)th kae hathae ko rakhai n koe ||

One who is cursed by a Saint cannot be saved.

sa(n)th kai dhookhan thhaan bhrasatt hoe ||

Slandering the Saints, one's place is defiled.

sa(n)th kirapaal kirapaa jae karai ||

But if the Compassionate Saint shows His Kindness,

naanak sa(n)thasa(n)g ni(n)dhak bhee tharai ||1||

O Nanak, in the Company of the Saints, the slanderer may still be saved. ||1||

http://www.sikhitothemax.com/page.asp?SourceID=G&PageNo=279

************************************************************

Just one question, why did Guru Arjan Dev ji send bibi Bhani ji to baba Budha ji for the 'vaar'??

Fateh ji

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Great, as I said again Saint refers tooo SGGS..SGGS..SGGS.

Yes Guru Arjan Dev ji sent bibi bhani ji to budha ji ... soo?? that answer only Guru jee knows.

if u r trying to say that Guru ji is giving us an example to follow sants.. then that is WRONG ! Guru Arjun Dev ji sending bibi ji to buddha ji has nothing to do with ... sikhs following some babas.

it just has somethign to do with past karmas.

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if u want to follow saints... u can follow.

my saint is SGGS ! .... and there is no big saint than the SGGS and I am satisfied with the SGGS. I dont need more. ... only those who are unsatisfied will look for saints.

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^Actually this post was about doing whatever your parents tell you do without questioning them. Its turned into a Sant thing though.

jjj: just read through this thread again from the beginning. Some of your comments are inspiring, but the recurring theme throughout your posts is a sense of arrogance and narrow-mindedness. There are some good things in your posts, but its all a matter of filtering them through.

Also, on the back of some of your posts, I would just like to ask you what your spiritual state was when you made the following childish thread:

http://www.sikhawareness.com/sikhawareness...ight=monay+lion

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gogogo, doesn't seem that its helped you much, following Guru Ji, maybe you should try to open your narrow mind and search for help from 'Sants' or 'GurSikhs', to help you understand how a Guru da Sikh should act and speak to others. All you have done is repeat one point over and over with millions of exclamation marks.

A_Singh, you make a great point, Baba Budha Ji blessed Bibi Bhani Ji, why did Guru Ji send MataJi to him? Instead of dismissng this very important point, contemplate on the reason, Guru Ji did everything to help us learn, not dismiss everything and say only they know, your attitude is like Muslims, all they say when asked a difficult question is 'only Allah knows' or this knowledge is with 'Allah alone'.

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Guest Sehjo Kaur

Also, a question for gogogo. Im assuming you do the Ardas daily, as you seem to know exactly what we should believe, the Ardas is also a major part of Sikhi.

When you do Ardas, at the end we say 'Jinna mileyaa tera naam chit aavey'. Meaning, unite us with those, by which we will be able to recieve your Naam. Who are these people that we search and pray Guru Ji unites us with? Clearly, it cannot be the Guru's, as we are asking Guru Ji. It cannot be anyone, but Mahapurush and GurSikhs.

There seems to be a taboo associated with the word 'Sant', anytime someone mentions it, people start getting high blood pressure. Yes, there are fakes, but we can't dismiss those who have met Guru Ji, and the ones who are genuine, always show us how to meet Guru Ji, because in this age, with are narrowminded attitudes and external influences, its hard enough translating Bani or reading it ourselves, let alone finding anything.

See, one person may see Guru Sahib and see them as a book, and another may see the eternal living Jyot of Guru Nanak, to see like the latter, we will ask for his guidance, naturally. If someone is sitting high up on a building, and you want to get there, will you look up and ask how he got there? or refuse to look up?

There is a Sakhi of Guru Arjan Dev Ji's Sikh. Once, the Sikh was meditating on Naam in a remote village area, which was near a forest. A thief was running from policemen nearby and happened to reach the place where the Sikh was sitting. He asked him to hide him from the policemen. The Sikh said, I will help you, but you must give up thieving and take this Mala and meditate. The thief immediately complied, because generally when a person is terrified, he will do anything to save his life. He sat down and when the policemen came nearby the Sikh told them to leave and said this guy is now a Sikh, not a thief.

The police guys left, thinking who knows if we sit around he might make us religious :LOL: .

So, the Sikh thought, I should take this guy to my Guru, only He can save him. He took the thief to Guru Arjan Dev Ji, and this thief was no other than Bhai Bidhi Chand.

So, what I'm trying to say is that the Sikh did not make him his devotee, but he acted as a VICHOLA and took him to his Guru, this is the definition of a TRUE SANT for Sikhs, one who is a Vichola between a Sikh and his Guru.

GurFateh

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Murshad can mean different things for different people: for me murshad is a bhramgyanis who have met guroo sahiban. I will not really label murshad as guroo to avoid confustion and conflicts of this deh(body).

End of discussion from my side. I ll leave you what you beleive. Also jjj singh whoever you are... this is not right place to spread your (anti-sant) propaganda.. for that you can join one of those tapoban and akj forums...

If we as moderator team feel that your spammin the boards and try to influence with your narrow-minded views... you will get a first warning.

Also i would prefer you use your jjj account since i already sent a password reset for jjj to gogogo account. We dont allow multiple id's so either way you have to give up your one id. Let me know which one you want me to delete.

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Agree on that issue being raised. Lets not confuse the jot of waheguru with worship. Some people have that jot inside of them which attracts us like moths..there is nothing wrong with that. So long as we realise they are mortals like us. And we too can reach that goal.

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In your own time jjj/gogogogogogogo

^This post was originally about doing whatever your parents tell you do without questioning them. Its turned into a Sant thing though.

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