How can we learn to concentrate better?

[Gurmit]

When reading Bani, or doing my patt sumtimes my dhian (focus) tends to wonder. I'm sure it happens to other ppl 2.

I jus wanted ask ppl wot they do to improve their dhian and how they can focus better on waheguru.

Can any1 share their experiances, and wot actually worked better for them. So we can all learn to concentrate better on Waheguru.

[Guest]

same happens with me sometimes... but then i do ardas or try to focus more on english translations.. read em.. and picture it... one rule picture the gurbani.. thats how i feel comfortable.. pictures the gurus sayin gurbani to you ...........

[sevak]

When reading Bani, or doing my patt sumtimes my dhian (focus) tends to wonder. I'm sure it happens to other ppl 2.

I jus wanted ask ppl wot they do to improve their dhian and how they can focus better on waheguru.

Can any1 share their experiances, and wot actually worked better for them. So we can all learn to concentrate better on Waheguru.

Read it with Love. Cultivate more Love and keep reciting Gurbani and contemplating on the verses in Gurbani. Dont worry to much about concentration and things like this. All these things will come naturally as Love for Waheguru increases. Just look at the love between mother and child, both are thinking of one another and this is because of Love, concentration is natural without effort in such a case. Your aim is Waheguru and not concentration, therefore I suggest keep doing what you are doing now and the rest of it will come by itself.

The biggest obstacle in the spiritual path is that we try to make things happen for ourselves or we try to do something unnatural. All you need to do is to be just the way you are and just be yourself and read Gurbani and the rest will happen by itself.

[singh khalistan da]

guru fateh ji,

dear sewak ji i just want 2 know that is their any benefit doing paath without concentration ? as u told to do paath, rest 'ill come ill come by itself , howcome?

fateh.

[Mugermach Singh]

Fateh Ji.

Why concentrate? we dont need to. (Hear me out on this one) When we concentrate we focus our mind on one little thing. We want to concentrate on god, god is no way little. We should there fore open our eyes (not literally) and see the whole world.

If you wish to concentrate properly whislt doing paath, i found one way.

I got a copy of my bani's on Computer.Removed all spaces between the words.

Pritied it Out.

Then i tried to read it. Well difficult. Y? it was difficult because i had to use my head, i could just read it, i had to understand it, hence concentrate.

Do this.

It will take time but it will help

I mean orgianlly it was written all joined up, maybe this was one of the reasons why??

any comments???

Concentrain Removes Open Mindedness (if there is asuch athing) Lets learn to Under stand, then concentration will be our slave.

[sevak]

guru fateh ji,

dear sewak ji i just want 2 know that is their any benefit doing paath without concentration ? as u told to do paath, rest 'ill come ill come by itself , howcome?

fateh.

singh kahlistan da ji,

There are two types of concentration. One that comes from outside, unnatural and developed through certain methods. These concentration might be developed from yoga, intensive meditation, practice and things like that.

There is another type of concentration, which comes from within and is very powerful.

for example, when a child from a mother is stolen. Just imagein how the mother suffers in the seperation and how the mother is always thinking of child.

in the sameway when fish from water is taken out.. just imagine how the fish is craving for water. always thinking of water. always wanting and worried to go back.

I swear to God... if you get this type of concentration .. it wont be long when you find God !

and this type of concentration will come naturally. as for now read and do your paath with as much attention you can do. with as much as will you can do.

pray to God to help you and pray to Him to give u concentration.

[tSingh]

Gurfateh

I disagree with you there sevak. Meditation is not imposed from outside.

Through meditation, you do not 'improve concentration', you simply reduce all that mental wittering that your mind comes up with when your doing something.

Therefore, something like the Zen master Dogen's 'no-mind' meditation technique, if practiced seriously will help you doing anything, including Naam simran. This is not imposed from outside. It is creating inner tranquility, and negating your mind's flitiness by realising what is mind and what is aatma. If you sit there long enough you'll see that what YOU are (your consciousness) and what your mind is are not the same. This gives you the ability to remove yourself from your mind, depending on practice.

The aim of Sikhi is to be meditating on Naam constantly. I personally feel that a lot of Sikhs have misunderstood this and taken it literally - hence the AKJ style kirtan. Naam is the essence of God, meditating on it means removing ego and cultivating that non-dual unity where God is everything, everywhere within and without time and space.

Bani supports this, for example, 'Do kaalang purnaasi' at the end of Jaap Sahib means 'the destruction of the two times' - meaning past and present. Therefore Guru ji is suggesting that we must live in the present, not caught up in the past or the future - this is the aim of meditation. Bhai Addan Shah the third Sewapanthi mahant was famously unattached to objects, including the deras he would stay in (he freuqently moved from plae to place) as he clearly understood the impermenance of things. Hazrat Qutab Ali Shah the Sindhi Sufi master would only spend money on things he needed there and then on that day, then discard the money and objects. He would never invest in things, life is temporal.

One thing that I would advise is that if you do try to take your ego on - head to head through meditation, as a suppliment to reading paath, then be mindful that you need to allow the thoughts to arise and then drop, like mugermunch was talking about. If you are constantly trying to destroy or quash the mind's thoughts that arise, you are in a sense only fuelling them. It's like the way Punjabis drink, it's the taboo-ness that fuels them. Likewise, crushing thoughts fuels those thoughts. Let them arise and fall, like images on a screen. Do not give them significance no matter how offensive. Eventually they will slow down and you will find yourself with a calmer mind.

[sevak]

Gurfateh

I disagree with you there sevak. Meditation is not imposed from outside.

Therefore, something like the Zen master Dogen's 'no-mind' meditation technique, if practiced seriously will help you doing anything, including Naam simran. This is not imposed from outside.

Dear jtsingh,

I have studied Zen philosphy and Yoga for 3 years and more. I was very much experimenting with zen philosophy, dodgen style meditation and use to sit hours doing it ! but ultimately I came to realize that it is nothing and my experience matched more with the Sikhi philosophy and I felt that zen philosophy and today's zen teachings have a great ERROR in them !

Zen philosophy and all this 'no-mind' thing is a totally different thing from sikhi and it is a BIG ERROR !!! Infact this can even make a person athiest !

As I said that there are two types of meditation. One meditation is that natural inward meditation which comes from ones own will. This is called "Love" or "Prema". It is that craving which Guru Arjun had for Guru Ram Das. It is that cravnig which a mother has for her child and it is that craving which a Sikh has for God. Such a state of mind which comes from within and natural and comes from will-power is much much more stronger than outwardly exericises such as yoga or zazen.

anyways. I have to rush and my mom is yelling at me. i will come back later

[sevak]

Okay I am back.

I can not be more than interested to reptly to Jt's post on Zen Buddhism. I have to say that in my quest of the truth, I have examined almost all the paths that eastern philosophy. I started of with Zen Buddhism and at the sametime I studied Advaita Vedanta philosophy, Hatha Yoga as well.

In my experience none of these philosophies can even equal to a pint the path that our Gurus taught (Seva and Simran). One of the MOST important thing is the need of the Guru to attain God, without this No thing is possible. None of these philosophies including zen talks about this. Even if you ask great advaita enlightened people like Ramana Maharishi have talked about the high importance of a neet of SATGURU to fidn God and without which it is impossible.

Guru Gobind Singh ji said that sitting like a crane all day in meditation wont get you anywhere and this is what I would like to say to the zen people who only think that by sitting all day in meditation they will become enlightened.

The first question that a person must ask himself is what is Meditation?

Meditation is not something like sitting cross-legged with eyes closed all day and trying to stop your thoughts like they do in zen buddhism , it is not even repeating 'har' 'har' with yoru tongue. From what I have learnt is that true meditation is that state of love in which if a child is stolen from the mother and the child is alwayus thinking and craving to meet the mother and is always wanting to be with the mother aind this craving his mind is saturated with the thought of his mother. This type of state of mind is called simran(rememberance) on God.

Just as a prisoner is always looking forward for the day he will be realised and will meet his family. In the sameway a person who meditates on God is always thinking of God and is always praying to God : 'Please come and meet me. I can not live without you.' and God hears this prayer and this agony and God understands the pain and God comes to satisfy His devotee.

Some people think that by 'methods' God is found and they do all sorts of methods, techniques hoping to find God, such as yoga, trying to live in the "present moment" as in zen ! ... lol

all these high experiences that zen people talk about of 'no-mind' will hapen automatically if a person is in love with God, but if a person tries to set these experiencs ..then they will not.

Zen philosophy have a big error. Zennists will tell you that there is 'no-mind' and this is how it works and that is how and this is what God is.

but in Sikhism, a sikh will say "I am dumb, I dont know anything. everything is known by my Guru. My goal is to only keep my head at the feet of the Guru. I have no knowledge, I have no wisdom. I am the lowest of all." and in this way a Sikh develops humility, egolessness and reaches emptiness.

that which zen people take years to understand is understood by a sikh in one day when he cuts off his head and offers it to the Guru. This is true emptiness and no-mind, which is only a partial state and not the end.

When it comes to living in the present moment. I have myself experienced that when I was styding zen and i use to try to live in the present moment as my goal.. I could not live. Simply trying to be aware of your surroundings and staying in the present moment has nothing to do with the truth.

but when I use to meditate on God all the time , they was taught in Sikhi.. I realized that my mind was naturally at the present moment and there was something different ! .... there was gian (wisdom) .. and understanding which was not there when I was studying zen and trying to live in the present moment.

In anycase... A Sikh need not be concerned with how the mind works, wether there is a mind or not and all these intellect things. His concern will only be putting his head at the feet of the Guru adn cultivating more and more love for God, the rest will automatically follow !

Guru Gobind Singh ji said that siksh are not concerned with mukti or other pebbles of heaven, there only one concern is to love God more and more.

[Undergroundsikhi]

try doing ssome streches b4 doing paat, and tune into your breathing and feel waheguru waheguru...then begin the paat with mool mantar and don;t stop until the the end of the paat is finished try what works best for you

[tSingh]

Gurfateh

Interesting and great post sevak. A few points;

I am not suggesting that no-mind is the goal. If it was, I'd be in Japan in black robes staring at a wall!

I'm suggesting the technique itself as a means to an end to improve our focus during paath!

Secondly, it is faintly ridiculous to label all Zen Buddhists under one banner as I'm sure you're aware there are many traditions with different ideologies and different practices (including a version of Naam Simran). Furthermore, I wouldn't cast doubt on the fact that Zen Buddhists have achieved enlightenment through their practices. As a means to improve concentration, then focused meditation is effective.

You're correct in stating that Ramana Maharishi and even Adi Shankaracharya himself (in Vivekchudamani) state the impossibility of reaching brahm-gyan without a SatGuru. Likewise the Zen Buddhists themselves recognise that need.

Your description of true meditation is great sevak!!! Osho uses a similar image in his katha on Japuji Sahib. Sikhi being bhakti-based emphasises the need for developing that divine love, but does this just appear from nowhere? no. Through concerted spiritual practice does it arise.

I disagree with you that a Sikh should almost aspire to be 'dumb'. I think this is symptomatic of many of the problems within Sikhi nowadays. There is a lack of serious spiritual aspiration and of using the wisdom in Gurbani due to this 'do your paath and the rest will follow' mindset. Gurbani is full of wisdom. If you can't recognise that then you are missing the point! Why else read Gurbani if not to meditate on God whilst developing gyaan?

My feeling is that you have confused the humility the Gurus showed as an out-right rejection of wisdom. Being humble is a necessary facet of spiritual aspiration as a means of reducing the ego. Taking pride in your level of understanding/learning is a gross mistake and will be the aspirant's downfall.

You quote from Akal Ustat, which is itself a treatise on God. We are meant to learn from that bani. Read the questions Guru ji poses half way through. How are we to answer them without having developed gyaan? Where does this gyaan come from? As you said, from our SatGuru, bani and also from learning from keeping the company of sadh sangat. Not from doing simran and waiting for it to happen. Quoting from the same section of Akaal Ustat, Guruji states that it is equally pointless chanting 'tuhi tuhi', as this will not get you any closer to God.

Learn and understand, then through true simran, experience it! This is the abridging of bhakti and jnaan. To state that a Sikh need not know how the mind works I would say is also a partial truth! Know about it, but don't give that knowledge undue importance.

This seems to be the theme in your post. You are rejecting things, because you view them as an end in themself. In actual fact, meditation, understanding how the mind works, wisdom are all means to that end.

Furthermore, I seriously question the assumption that Gurus did not intend us to know about these things. Gurbani is full of insightful psychology, of how our mind works. Living in the present is something that the Gurus themselves have talked about (see my previous quote from Jaap Sahib). We are told to meditate on naam in Gurbani also.

[sevak]

Interesting questions jtsingh, I would like to answer all of them. Just gotot his site.. this is the zen school from where I use to study from http://www.hsuyun.org. I have left zen path a long long time ago feeling that it is inconsistent and is not good enough to lead one to God.

I'm suggesting the technique itself as a means to an end to improve our focus during paath!

Again, the real focus on God is that which arises through LOVE towards God. This in itself should be the source of concentration in your simran !

When you do simran, your simran should be as if a darshan thirsty child is calling onto God and praying to Him to be with her.

Secondly, it is faintly ridiculous to label all Zen Buddhists under one banner as I'm sure you're aware there are many traditions with different ideologies and different practices (including a version of Naam Simran).

Naam simran means remembering God through His name, again true repeating of Naam is like that of a sufering child calling out towards God. Just like a crying child in need of milk keeps on calling the name of his mother !

Furthermore, I wouldn't cast doubt on the fact that Zen Buddhists have achieved enlightenment through their practices. As a means to improve concentration, then focused meditation is effective.

Uptill now I have not met any good enough enlightend zen people who are that enlightened as our Gurus ! secondly, even the so-called enlightened ones are only partially enlightened. I agree there must be zen people who were really enlightened ages ago, such as bodhidharma.

In now a days zen practice if someone gets a satori ,t hey think they reached enlightenment and they think it is all about living in the present moment.. and thats it all.. they get all puffed up with pride !

You're correct in stating that Ramana Maharishi and even Adi Shankaracharya himself (in Vivekchudamani) state the impossibility of reaching brahm-gyan without a SatGuru. Likewise the Zen Buddhists themselves recognise that need.

I have studied the vivekachoodmani with commentaries given by swami chinmayananda. It is a good book, but again I do not find the path to God in the vivekachoodamani and things as shankaracharya describes. It is simply matchless as compared to the SGGS.

Osho uses a similar image in his katha on Japuji Sahib.

again, I doubt this guy osho. Do you know they have center in pune in which they use sex that also multiple sex to get enlightenment. his philosophy is that the more you indulge in sex you get tiered of it and you become free. Gurus rejected this philosophy saying that fire can not be destroyed by fire. Plus I dont think he was an authentic guy.

Sikhi being bhakti-based emphasises the need for developing that divine love, but does this just appear from nowhere? no.

Okay now you are asking me some real questions. The Love comes by God's kirpa, it comes by the grace of God and by the good actions and tapsya did in the past karma ! It arises naturally.

The Love towards God can arised through by reading Guru's bani. Read shabad haazray, read Jaap sahib, these are medicines to awaken the inner dormant love. Millions of people read it but still they do not get sochi of bani or understanding. However, these are only things that I say, but in reality the Love towards God or the desire to have it comes only by His Grace through good past karma and through good tapsya done in past lifes. This is said in vivekachoodamani also.

I disagree with you that a Sikh should almost aspire to be 'dumb'. I think this is symptomatic of many of the problems within Sikhi nowadays.

My feeling is that you have confused the humility the Gurus showed as an out-right rejection of wisdom.

No not at all. Spiritual wisdom is necessary and is an anti-dote to blind faith and blind practices !

What I said is that a sikh is not concerned with the intellect, the yoga technology and all tthe intellect janana stuff which yogis, zen masters engage in .

A true sikh will declare that he knows nothing and will fall at the feet of the Guru.

when it comes spiritual wisdom . True spiritual wisdom comes automatically through the practice of bhakti and even though knowing and understanding everything , a sikh will not be concerned with it.

With Intellect ‘I’ ego gets inflated. With intellect you cannot tread the path of Bhagti. It is rather the greatest obstacle. In respect of innocent and humble, Guru keeps on passing through, in his place.

Baba Narinder Singh Ji ---> THIS IS THE MAIN PROBLEM IN ZEN.

Currently i can not find the quote from baba nand singh sahib's website, but in that quote baba ji addresses that a true sikh is not cocnerned with yoga philosophy, with janana or with the intellect. His only concern is in bowing down at the feet of sri Guru Nanak and admitting that he has zero wisdom. In this way he looses all ego ! and obtains the blessings of the Guru.

Intellect is a biggest obstactle to God. Wisdom comes through true love and surrenderance and such wisdom can not be described and a sikh doesnt even care about it or talks about it. Even though knowing everything.. he still remains dumb.

You quote from Akal Ustat, which is itself a treatise on God. We are meant to learn from that bani. Read the questions Guru ji poses half way through. How are we to answer them without having developed gyaan? Where does this gyaan come from?

Gyan will come through Love and it will not come by hankering after it. The Guru's bani is a weapon to develop that love.

To state that a Sikh need not know how the mind works I would say is also a partial truth!

Highest truth is the surrendering of mind to the Guru. He need not know anything.

Furthermore, I seriously question the assumption that Gurus did not intend us to know about these things. Gurbani is full of insightful psychology, of how our mind works. Living in the present is something that the Gurus themselves have talked about (see my previous quote from Jaap Sahib). We are told to meditate on naam in Gurbani also

Yes that is right .. but Gurbani is there to develop love and deattachment and to put the person in the right frame of mind to merge with God. as for your quote from jap ji sahib.. there are several different interpretations. My experience with so many zen .. is that these people add a lot of there masala to other people's philosophy and they will interpret it in such a way that it fits their philosophy.

for example each one of them have a different itnerpretation of gita, but they dont see the message of gita was to be a devotee. which they will not do it.

similarly they have made there own interpetations about God and it is such and such way and on the otherhand they are completely athiests and that devotion to God is not even needed.

infact they give a second preference to devotion and they even say that devotion is low-level. All of this is because of too much over-excess indlugence in janana.

[tSingh]

Gurfateh

Sevak, another great post!

I think we're getting to a chicken and the egg situation with regards jnaan. Personally, I recognise different groups with different ideologies, and Nanaksar have a different slant on Sikhi to others. Within Nanaksar Guru Nanak is a salvation figure. You have touched on an interesting aspect within Sikhi. Sikhi is astounding because it combines the salvation-like ideology based on good deeds and kirpa or grace for spiritual advancement (as seen in Islamic, Christian ideology), coupled with focused spiritual practice by the aspirant (more akin to eastern ideologies), i.e. prayer and meditation, removal of ego, etc.

I absolutley agree that surrender is a fundamental necessity of any relationship with a Guru. Equally you must always assume you, as a disciple, know nothing.

But why surrender, if you are going to immediately close you ears?! You surrender so that the Guru will show kirpa enough to pass on the spiritual teachings. I have surrendered to Guru ji and he is know teaching me alsorts of gyaan through Gurbani - banis named such as Gyaan Prabodh should hint at what Guru ji's intention was in writing it! If somebody should ask me where this gyaan is from then I shall tell them, it's certainly not my own - no inflated ego is involved!

Equally you yourself in the last post have demonstrated a need for gyaan. If it is bhagti alone that is involved why look to Baba Narinder Singh or Baba Nand Singh for inspiration? What they are telling you obviously has some importance to you and you have listened and no doubt seeked out their words. If it is all about divine love alone, why have you listened to their words? You have listened to them because those words contain spiritual insight, in other words, gyaan. That very gyaan has no doubt enriched your understanding of the final goal and how to reach it.

This is essentially a key point, that jnaan inspires bhagti and bhagti inspires jnaan. The two are inter-related. I personally feel there is not one without the other. Ibn-Arabi and Jallaudin Rumi are seen as the two opposing extremes of Sufi; one the path of knowledge, the other the path of love. Yet Sufis will tell you they are two ends of the same stick.

Equally both jnaan and bhakti can lead to spiritual mistakes! If you fall in love with the finger pointing to the moon, then you are waisting your life. If you wish only to learn about the finger pointing to the moon, you are equally lost.

[sevak]

Yes I agree with you.

Ego-inflation occuring through gian is a major major major problem in zen and in the sameway blind faith out of blind love(Which cant be called love) is also a major problem in bhakti.

i have met individuals in both cases, but if bhakti executed correctly will results in fine tuned gian attainment and both go hand in hand. However without bhakti one can not attain God. This is a fact. Bhakti when executed correctly and without indulging in fanciful stories(lik hare krishnas) will give you gian, which is important. The story of bhagat namdev as a child is a proof to this.

Bhakti leads to gian and a giani will become a bhakta.

In anycase, when you talked about zen it brought some of my old memories out, I really dont recognise that as an authentic path even though one may get enlightenment in it, but still it is not very effective. What may take you 10 years in zen to understand... will take you only one second in sikhism if you follow the instructions of the Guru.

So are you a zen studenet? I will be honest with you. I dont want to be biased or lower any path, but I truely feel that what Guru Nanak did and the path he has found.. nothing in this world can ever be equal to it.

[Amrikingh]

have a couple of shots of daroo

should make u concentrate better

lol

[tSingh]

Gurfateh

No sevak, I am not a zen student. I am a Sikh! I have a lot of respect for zen texts and enjoy reading them. I also know a few zen buddhists (serious ones). Furthermore, when I read these texts I find no clash with my own beliefs, in fact they usually inspire and enrich my Sikhi.

I personally feel that if I didn't enjoy something, or found it didn't work for me, then that's more to do with myself not that thing. It would be very easy to disregard centuries of zen/chen tradition just because it didn't click for me.

[sevak]

It is not that zen didnt click for me ! It is simply that I did learn a lot from zen, infact I had all the zenexperiences (no-mind) and was able to understand their point, but you see there approach to the Truth is incorrect and I dont find that it will lead you to God. See look without loving devotion to God nothing is obtained. A person who maybe most dumb about zen things and no-mind stuff and if he loves God in his heart even a little.. he is much much closer to God than zen people who may not achknowledge God and may keep doing zazen all the time. but somehow God bieng kind to these people also gives them some good enlightenment in someway.

In anycase Zen people have their own itnerpretation of God. God is 'this' and God is 'that' .. kind of hard to explain. They are very egoistical and pride. I left them a long time ago. I have more peace.. MUCH MUCH more peace of mind with sikhism.

[tSingh]

Gurfateh

Point taken sevak, but you seem to be missing mine!

Your experience of zen is not a universal one. It is your own. To suggest that zen approach to truth is 'incorrect' can only apply to you and your own individual experience! Surely you can recognise this.

To state that they are ALL egoistic and proud, based on your own very limited experience of one aspect of the zen buddhist community is inaccurate.

For example; if a person goes to a one Gurudwara and only meets the same dodgy gyani who talks rubbish, repeatedly for 3 years, I'm sure they would leave stating ALL Sikhs are dodgy and talk rubbish.

Could you talk with authority on the beauty of dance having only seen one dancer perform for 3 years? Could you talk with authority on what is great art having only seen one painting?

We should not base our understanding of any given faith on a limited experience of the followers of that faith.

Equally, I'm sure you're aware that there have been numerous western buddhist leaders who have been caught up in controversy, because of their own particular slant that breaks with tradition.

[sevak]

Gurfateh

No it is not. There are many more and others that agree to this. These things are Universal in nature and it doesnt come from and individualistic prespective. Its like you goto a laboratary and you find out that the experiement is performed in an incoorect way, ofcourse there are those who will remain and choose to be caught up in such a way and thats up to them !

Zen philosophy is based on the concept that everything is a construction and a concept in mind and therefore one should get rid of all concepts in the mind and empty it ! which in reality is a BIG ERROR and an INCORRECT UNDERSTANDING, ofcourse they are partially right but they got it fully wrong ! and due to this philosphy they even give lower value to devotion (its a concept) and they even start callin God a concept of the "mind". Which again is an incorrect understanding.

It is not my individualistic experience. Lastly you can choose what you like to do, but the two dont go togther. You should listen to suleman's ghost tapes.. he has already shown through direct experience that christanity and islam are flawed philosophies.

See look the bottom line is that if you want to meet God. YOu need to have a Satguru and do seva and simran. Zen philosophy doesnt support the idea of a Satguru it rather says that you can get enlightenment on your own effort right now, which is again is a trap of ego. Ofcourse Zen philosophy supports the need of a teacher but that teacher doesnt neceessarily have to be enlihened.

Morevoer God-realization is much much much higher than Zen Satori Enlightenment.

Most people are into zen philosophies becoz it makes 'common sense' and is easily understood by 'logic/intellect' and a little bit of meditation practice.

and I dont deny zen philosophy, it is just to guide the faithless. That is why in zen you dont even need faith. all you need to do is sit in zazen all day and observe your thoughts and your mind and wait for some great satori ! and that is your end enlightenment... *LOL*.

Realizing your mind is a false illusion and there is no such thing is not a Big Thing.

[sevak]

Equally, I'm sure you're aware that there have been numerous western buddhist leaders who have been caught up in controversy, because of their own particular slant that breaks with tradition.

My experience has been mostly with westerners. http://www.hsuyun.org .. just see this site. but I have also read from eastern books... man bottom line is that they are athiest and they tend to God-realization experiences of others in their own short, incorrect experiences.. which is not true.

ofcourse there are other good buddhist traditions , but most have dried up. Without Loving Devotion to God.. nothing is possible, nothing is possible, nothing is possible. You can sit in Zazen all your life .. but you wont even be a pint closer to God without Loving devotion to God.

These zen, yoga methods are all different types of technological methods, techniques that people use to find God, but God is not found by any of this. He is only and only and only found by Love.

Zen, Yoga philosophy will make you intellect/chatur/chalaak and very clever , smart and wise... but these things are barriers to finding God, because only innoncence, bhola-pan can lead to God and only such a person has less ego.

[Guest]

seevak you just inspired me big time!!!!!!!!!!

so true. great keep those words of wisdom coming...

He is defo right. Because god is in us. But we have to find that dasama dwaar (tenth door). This only can be found by love, devotion, innocence, purity of mind and off course serve the divine!!!!!!!!

[sevak]

seevak you just inspired me big time!!!!!!!!!!

so true. great keep those words of wisdom coming...

He is defo right. Because god is in us. But we have to find that dasama dwaar (tenth door). This only can be found by love, devotion, innocence, purity of mind and off course serve the divine!!!!!!!!

Hey N3O Singh, These things I have myself learnt and by listenning to storeis for Grat mahapurshs like Baba Harnaam Singh and Baba Nand Singh Sahib and stories from Guru's time. Dasm Dwaar is located at the top of the crown of the head? is that right, correct me if I am wrong and that is where from Amrit drops down?

jtsingh, I suggest you visit this site. They hve good things http://www.srigurugranthsahib.org and http://ww.babanandsingh.org

[tSingh]

Gurfateh

I have seen these websites, sevak.

Correct me if I'm wrong but doesn't Nanaksar trace it's parampara back to the Nirmalae, a path that emphasises jnaan?

[sevak]

jtsingh,

I really dont know about nanaksaar parmapara or much about them. All i have done is read a little bit of biography of Baba Harnaam Singh and Baba Nand Singh ji, these are the only two sikhs saints in recent history that I know a little aobut there story. Now there is sant baba ishar singh ji and sant baba attar singh ji .. which I am inspired to read it.

[Xylitol]

A great way to build up your concentration is to meditate on the Mool Mantur: Jap Ji Sahib, Ek Onkar, Sat Naam, Karta Purakh, Nirbhau, Nirvair, Akaal Moorat, Ajuni, Saibhang, Gur Prasaad, Jap, Aad Sach, Jugad Sach, Ha Bhi Sach, Nanak Hosi Bhi Sach.

Say it out loud over and over again with eyes closed and spine straight and really concentrate on the words. 20 mins a day is good.