What would a Sikh PM spell for the Khalistani movement?

[guv]

i can't really see the khalistani movement having much of a leg to stand on if a sikh becomes prime minister of india (unless he's really crap & anti-sikh).

but then the question arises, is having a sikh prime minister of all of india better than having a separate state khalistan? what d'yall think?

[Guest]

Why Khalistan now???

There is no discrimination from what i see... i openly protest against khalistan vote now.

I dont get it... let the pm work on 1984 killing cases and make a good image for sikhs.

I can see Khalsa raj concept coming in the picture rather than khalistan which is just peace of land.

If Pm is devotee Sikh-

- He would spread message of love and bring peace into india and peace into india and pakistan relationship.

- He would work on powerty in india.

- He would reform punjab (free from drugs, and this obbession of coming to western countries by putting jobs, creating job infracstructures).

- He would also work on gettin justice to everyone along with 1984 victimes/widows and bring sajan kumar and his team from congress into justice stand once again. (But thats going to be hard because after its politics and least expected since accused from his team).

-He would work on french sikh ban issue

- He would work with america regarding hate crimes (education of sikhi). But i bet you just by being an pm for india itself is an huge awareness of sikhi.

- He would work with pakistan regarding sikh gurdwara's

If he does all above and couldnt do the below even then he is a good human being and devotee sikh because main justice dharam raja does.. wordly justice doesnt mean anything to me anymore. Laws of vahiguroo are perfect... no cleverness, no bribe then...Jisssi Karni wassssi bharni....:

He would also work on gettin justice to everyone along with 1984 victimes/widows and bring sajan kumar and his team from congress into justice stand once again. (But thats going to be hard because after its politics and least expected since accused from his team).

[Guest]

Well done N3O Singh Jee.

Hindu Raaj Na Khaalistaan.

Jug Jug Jeeve Hindostaan.

[sikh_fauge]

Ive always been here and there..sometimes against..sometimes for. Much like neo singh

Ive never been for khalistan..but then im not pro hindustan either..after all, its the same nation who stood there and watched us get oppressed by the government.

Most khalistanis in punjab have left punjab (obvious reasons) so naturally those left in punjab dnt represent the real struggle..because most of them left are either scared or just not relegious (hence no discrimination.)

As for it happening today..well i have a good friend of mine (new to sikhi) and shes just come back from india..and o, how wrong u are neo paji!

[sikh_fauge]

(in regards to discrimination)..everything else u say i agree with totally!

[Ideal Singh]

I vote for Sikh Prime Minister of India... never thought it would ever be a possiblity... lets enjoy a major piece of history in the making for Sikhs. It should be a stepping stone for improving the maligned image of Sikhs generally worldwide... as rightly defined by NEO Singh... letcee how things turn out...

but at the moment... three cheers for Manmohan Singh... Prime Minister of India... :yo: :yo: :yo:

[Guest]

We should be aware of this simple concept that prime minister represent whole population of country not just his own people. If he will represent only Sikhs then what's the difference between him and others?

It will be so selfish if we expect him to work for Sikhs only. He should work for whole India and change its position and whatever he will do the credit will go to all the Sikhs.

He is definitely a guy who deserves to be the Prime Minister of India.

[Singh47]

Don’t get too optimistic N30 Singh. Don’t know why you are all happy at this. Yeah it’s great that one of our boys is going to be the “head†of a nation. But Sonia is still the head of the Congress party. Manmohan Singh will have to do whatever she says. By nominating a Sikh as the PM of India still doesn’t erase the fact that Sajjan Kumar and Jagdish Tytler are MPs in India representing the Congress party.

[commander]

The "Khalistani movement" has been dead for like a decade. The question is moot.

[Sukdev Singh Jhamka]

vaheguru ji ka khalsa

vaheguru ji ki fateh

its a long march to freedom

the fire still burns in our hearts

u lot will soon find out what ur sardarji does for the sikhs, like what he done at the UN geneva at the human rights meeting saying the sikhs dont suffer human rights abuses, well sorry too say Wake up u got singhs on death row while the killers of THOUSANDS of sikhs get seat in parliament, i guess if u want to ignore the crys of the victims u can, but one thing for certain u will have to answer to Dharam Raj.

just my stupid crying self

dhan guruji

dhan thera panth khalsa

never forget 84

[Guest]

well sorry too say Wake up u got singhs on death row while the killers of THOUSANDS of sikhs get seat in parliament, i guess if u want to ignore the crys of the victims u can, but one thing for certain u will have to answer to Dharam Raj.

Please stop this bullocks.

Why not bring action give justice to those who were responsible instead of crying/whinnin in forgein countries.

I been hearing this whinnin for years now.. still no action... since people like to tell others and not look at their own manjiii .. what have they done for the movement??? Internet forums....???!?

That doesnt quite count does it???????... why dont you sent your khalistani boys to india to give justice to those who killed innocent people in 1984... I ll tell you why the shake when takin over this mission?????????

I ll tell you why... because lack of bhagti... look in urself in the mirror and ask yourself are you willing to be shaheed?? do you have that kinda naam abyhaas in you ?? If yes .. please carry on the with parchar of khalistan. If not then just shad it and work on the bhagti level ( i dont preach because i dont have bhagti in that level to preach). I m sorry to say this.... you want to make khalistan do it the josh which were at the times of sant jarnail singh ji times ......whats this bullocks?? khalistan zindabad all these slogans...judgin others of capablity...

awareness is good, remembering of shaeeds must

But when we remember what do we remember??? do we feel like pick up ak-47 or nitneem gutka??? If the answer is feeling like pick u ak- 47 then you know where you stand?? where is your fear-level is ?? where is your bhagti level is?? Because first you become saint and then soldier..not other way around...

If you pick up nitneem gutka and do patt while remembering shaheeds and guroo maharaj .. thats what i call real khalsa and khalistani!!

Sukdev i think you should first work on sorting out sikhs who are abusin khalistan name which was suppose to be spirtual movement rather than bunch of fanatics (cold-bloosed morons) who blow up planes and buses and kill up innocent people!!!!!!!!!

[sikh_fauge]

Fighting for faith and nation- cynthia mahmood. Quality book.

[SUKHBIR]

Waheguru Ji Ka Khalsa Waheguru Ji Ki Fateh,

Why Khalistan now???

There is no discrimination from what i see... i openly protest against khalistan vote now.

I dont get it... let the pm work on 1984 killing cases and make a good image for sikhs.

I can see Khalsa raj concept coming in the picture rather than khalistan which is just peace of land. :

There seems to be huge political naivety on the part of some posters, N30 as example, in response to your statement above,

you may not see any discrimination, may I ask what draws you to this conclusion?

Have you for example read amnesty's most recent report on the Panjab situation, delivered only last year? It outlines continuing abuses by the indian state in Panjab. It is a fact that thousands still languish in prisons without trial or hope, widows still pine for justice, orphans are still asking why? Yet you see no discrimination?

One man a congress trade union leader (Lalit Makhan) who led massacres against Sikhs at the behest of HKL bhagat is assassinated by a Sikh for his part in the bloodshed, the indian authorities manage to track the assailant half way around the world to the USA have him imprisoned and then extradited back to india to face more jail time, such lengths are taken to ensure that justice is delivered to the family of one man, international boundaries are crossed, no expense is spared.Yet you see no discrimination?

For the families of Sikh victims any amount of effort in delivering justice is seen as futile, the men responsible have not left the country they are within walking distance of the police station, will justice ever be delivered to these Sikh families?

No it will not.

If you believe that PM Singh may facilitate justice, please read on. It is in fact paradoxical that despite the BJP pursuing the issue for its own cynical reasons, there was more hope of the perpetrators of Nov 84 coming to justice through the Nanavati commission under the auspices of Mr Vajpayee then there is under Mr Singh's Congress

Remember also the electorate did not vote for a Sikh had he stood for election on his own merit he would have lost, his previous electoral record is far from 'shining'.

The indians voted for a gandhi, streets were awash with people waving posters of Indira and Rajiv, both responsible respectively for the worst desecration in Sikh history and the wholesale slaughter of Sikhs in india wide pogroms.

So this is the bloodline, the dynasty that was voted for, not Mr Singh. Ironically it was indeed the worst enemies of Sikhs in contemporary history that were being honoured by the election of another gandhi, certainly not Mr Singh.

The shouts rising from the crowd following Sonias' refusal and the protest cry across many parts of india was in fact ' sonia nahiye that kohi nahiye' later revised to 'sonia nahiye tha rahul sahiye'.

Certainly no mention of Mr Singh. The fact that the PM of india is now a Sikh is of little significance, it was a Sikh president(Z.Singh) in residence when Bluestar was perpetrated, it was a Sikh president that for a short while held ultimate power in india whilst the mobs readied their kerosene and bicycle tyres, it was a Sikh president that inaugurated a hateful son to his mothers throne and looked on whilst members of his own community burnt.

Forget not the contributions of the Sikh police chief KPS Gill to the tragedy of a lost generation of Sikh youth, recall also the Sikh chief Minster who was only too accommodating of the central governments Sikh genocide, the late Beant Singh.

If Pm is devotee Sikh-

- He would spread message of love and bring peace into india and peace into india and pakistan relationship.

- He would work on powerty in india.

- He would reform punjab (free from drugs, and this obbession of coming to western countries by putting jobs, creating job infracstructures).

- He would also work on gettin justice to everyone along with 1984 victimes/widows and bring sajan kumar and his team from congress into justice stand once again. (But thats going to be hard because after its politics and least expected since accused from his team).

-He would work on french sikh ban issue

- He would work with america regarding hate crimes (education of sikhi). But i bet you just by being an pm for india itself is an huge awareness of sikhi.

- He would work with pakistan regarding sikh gurdwara's

If he does all above and couldnt do the below even then he is a good human being and devotee sikh because main justice dharam raja does.. wordly justice doesnt mean anything to me anymore. Laws of vahiguroo are perfect... no cleverness, no bribe then...Jisssi Karni wassssi bharni....:

Quote:

He would also work on gettin justice to everyone along with 1984 victimes/widows and bring sajan kumar and his team from congress into justice stand once again. (But thats going to be hard because after its politics and least expected since accused from his team). :

PM Singh joined N. Rao's congress administration as finance minister in the 90's under this governments reign the police closed six cases against Sajjan Kumar alone as well as dropping many other cases against various congress workers, individuals.

Do I need to re-iterate that PM Singh has come to power through the same party that for this general election gave 'tickets' to Sajjan Kumar, Jagdish Tytler and RK Anand to stand again as MP's?

Effectively rewarding three of the most prominent men involved in the Sikh pogroms of 1984. This despite the fact that Justice GT Nanavanti commission, probing the 1984 carnage, issued section 8B notices to Kumar and Tytler, only six months before the election's!

Those notices to Tytler and Kumar were issued after recording evidence which suggests their complicity in the violence and is therefore prejudicial to their reputation. Despite this they were cleared to stand as candidate's for congress in outer delhi and sadar constituencies respectively.

So this is the party of the first Sikh PM of India, a party made up of MP's who lead assaults on innocent Sikh civilians murdering men women and children, MP's who led mobs with voting list in hand so that Sikh homes may be effectively targeted, MP's who paid for kerosene so that Sikh men and children may be burned alive, MP's who supervised the gang rape and molestation of Sikh women and girls, MP's who led mobs into gurudwara inciting them to burn the building's and worse (the sacrilege of Sri Guru Granth Sahib by burning, urination upon etc. is well noted in witness affidavits).

Indeed Mr Singh's party to whom he pledges allegiance is not only the party of Indira that conceived Bluestar and the Sikh massacres of November but the same party that made sure that under Rajiv not a single congress party leader would be booked by the police, indeed not a single booking was made by the police under his reign, incidentally PM Singhs address to the press following the announcement of his imminent appointment saw him declaring that he would carry on the "sterling work of Sri Rajiv Gandhi Jee" given that Rajiv's first work was three of the worst day's in contemporary Sikh history.

Mr Singhs words and actions, or lack of them, leave you in doubt as to where his loyalties lie. Remember the men who led the pogroms were not only the MP's of congress but personal friends of the Gandhi's, Rajiv himself was complicit in the massacre, he did not only allow three days of carnage without any intervention but later protected the perpetrators, this is the man that PM Singh eulogises?

Please stop this bullocks.

Why not bring action give justice to those who were responsible instead of crying/whinnin in forgein countries.

I been hearing this whinnin for years now.. still no action... since people like to tell others and not look at their own manjiii .. what have they done for the movement??? Internet forums....???!? :

Bovine trouble?.....

The formation of lobbying and pressure groups in other countries by people(s) who wish to raise awareness and win international support for their 'cause' is a long established means of constructive protest, your statement above shows a lack of knowledge on your part as to the current nature of Sikh political lobbying in, as example the UK.

India cannot, given it's disgraceful history regard itself as a democracy.That is not to say that democracies do not exist, it is by lobbying these democracies and exposing india as the corrupt and vile state it is that international support can be won for the sikh cause. It is only through international diplomacy that the goal may be realised .

That doesnt quite count does it???????... why dont you sent your khalistani boys to india to give justice to those who killed innocent people in 1984... I ll tell you why the shake when takin over this mission?????????

I ll tell you why... because lack of bhagti... look in urself in the mirror and ask yourself are you willing to be shaheed?? do you have that kinda naam abyhaas in you ?? If yes .. please carry on the with parchar of khalistan. If not then just shad it and work on the bhagti level ( i dont preach because i dont have bhagti in that level to preach). I m sorry to say this.... you want to make khalistan do it the josh which were at the times of sant jarnail singh ji times ......whats this bullocks?? khalistan zindabad all these slogans...judgin others of capablity...:

This is not as you suggest the motivation of fear but instead the motivation

of success, Sikhs are already making progress across the globe, by the grace of God the Sikh Diaspora holds greater and ever increasing levels of influence and wealth and this is not lost on politicians regardless of political persuasion, as well as those ordinary citizens who are disgusted by the reality of the indian state.

After 84 the Sikhs fought back because they had no choice the GOI had

carefully planned the attacks making sure that no foreign media may present a version of events other than their own they were also at pains to pit Sikh against Sikh so that any unity that may have existed eroded resulting in brothers turning on each other. That was a corner that we as a nation were backed into and we came out the only way we knew and rightly, taking the fight to the foe BUT there is no doubt the agenda was entirely set by the GOI we were simply reacting in the

manner in which they excepted us to.

That is exactly why we should not revert to type instead set the agenda

ourselves, we shall not be pushed into a situation that is out of our

control instead we shall set the boundaries and work within them using the

international community as referee and witness.

awareness is good, remembering of shaeeds must

But when we remember what do we remember??? do we feel like pick up ak-47 or nitneem gutka??? If the answer is feeling like pick u ak- 47 then you know where you stand?? where is your fear-level is ?? where is your bhagti level is?? Because first you become saint and then soldier..not other way around... ...:

It is our duty to expose the true nature of the indian

regime. As for armed struggle, as I have already stated there can be no intention of falling into another

baited trap, the sort of trap that turned Sikh against Sikh and wiped out a

entire generation of young men. History bear's testament to the genocide carried out by the GOI throughout

Panjab through the 80's/90's, the armed struggle that arose from the ashes of amritsar was a just response since "all means of redress had failed".

If you pick up nitneem gutka and do patt while remembering shaheeds and guroo maharaj .. thats what i call real khalsa and khalistani!!

Sukdev i think you should first work on sorting out sikhs who are abusin khalistan name which was suppose to be spirtual movement rather than bunch of fanatics (cold-bloosed morons) who blow up planes and buses and kill up innocent people!!!!!!!!! ...:

Your final comments are assumptive and therefore misjudged, who was responsible for the 'blowing up' of the Air India flight you refer to as well as the counter- insurgent attacks on innocent civilians in the period 84-92 in Panjab is very far from resolved, certain points however can be given as fact.

Did the Indian intelligence service go to Canada with the express purpose of infiltrating the Sikh community? Yes.

Was Canadian and world opinion turned against the Sikhs and thus their cause by the bombing of the air india flight? Yes.

Did the Panjab police under the auspices of the central government carry out attacks on civilians whilst adopting the guise of militants? Yes. Was the Panjab police advantaged by this tactic by turning Panjab peasantry against the militants? Yes.

As a further example both to confirm that the GOI is not averse to these sort of tactics as well as confirming that they are not consigned to history but still in rude health, we need only look at the Chittsingpora massacre. Violence is never preferable to diplomacy, no Sikh guru ever said it was. I am not talking of any 'ghandian' notion of non violence, to be unable to react violently is not non-violence it is merely acceptance of your situation.

Gur Fateh

Sukhbir Singh

[Singh47]

N30 Singh, why get so excited if Sukhdev mentioned injustices that have happened to us?. He didn’t even mention “Khalistanâ€. But as a Sikh he does have “Dardâ€(pain) in his heart when remembering the fact that men like Sajjan Kumar and Jagdish Tyter who led thousands of mobs to kill and rape thousands of Sikhs are now not only free but are members of the Indian parliament! That is a slap on our face. That’s a slap on the faces of thousands of widows in Delhi who saw their husbands burning alive with a tire around their necks. What kind of justice is that? This is proof of Ghulaami. Just because the fire in your heart has extinguished, doesn’t mean you should ridicule others that still have it.

“Sukdev i think you should first work on sorting out sikhs who are abusin khalistan name which was suppose to be spirtual movement rather than bunch of fanatics (cold-bloosed morons) who blow up planes and buses and kill up innocent people!!!!!!!!!â€

Wah! N30 Singh Wah! Spoken like the enemy. Last I checked the trial of the air India bombing is still going around. Fortunately, the Canadian courts don’t pre-judge people as you would without any evidence. The trial is still going on, so don’t judge before it’s over.

The Panthic Sangarsh may be down currently, but that doesn’t mean it won’t be back up in the future. Sant Jarnail Singh Jee Bhindrawala’s Shaheedi won’t go in vain. Sant Jee’s vachan will come true one day whether you like it or not. Let’s not forget that after the Shaheedi of Baba Banda Singh Bahadur, the Sikh movement was down for almost a decade. But eventually it was back up. After some time the Sikhs won their independence. Who is to say the same thing cannot happen now?

India as a nation has done a lot of bad Karmas against Guru Jee’s Panth. What goes around comes around (law of Karma). With the accumulation of so much bad Karmas, India as a nation will have to pay for it somehow. Only God know how it will pay, but justice will be done.

[Guest]

Dear Sukhbir,

I really enjoy your previous posts and i like this one as well accept your naivness of air india case. And I appolized for ignorance on behalf of my side regarding Congress history.

I shall ask this question.

I wanted to know if there is any khalistani out there in western countries who would die to get 1984 victims justice right now????

Forget about fighting over pen.. rest of the world knows how devil indian politics is...worry about those widows who are suffering.

ok 2nd question.

Are any khalistani based groups out there who is helping out those 1984 widows out there fianically . If there is please direct us to site/email so that we can make donations???

If there isnt any then i would say this is shame thing for us.

I ll wait for your answers pateintly. And give you money figures groups like satnaam trust of bc have scammed from punjabi community to fill up their warm pockets.

There is huge difference between khalistan movement back in sant ji and right now! I m sure you can figure out what???

[Guest]

but that doesn?t mean it won?t be back up in the future. Sant Jarnail Singh Jee Bhindrawala?s Shaheedi won?t go in vain.

If you think sant ji is shaheed then you have completely lost the post. How can you ignore sant baba thakur singh ji maharapursh bachan... or are you one of those sikhs who beleive sant baba thakur singh has links with rss just because rss came in to pay their respect.

Please Clarify!!!

Air India Case... your beloved Inderjit Singh Reyat already admitted guilty for making an bomb.

And our beloved Mr Bagri. I have saw his disguisting video of threating to kill 50,000 hindus..what else is there??? That just shows who fanatic he is!!

And that itself is a huge motive to the case which was presented!!!.

[Guest]

Are any khalistani based groups out there who is helping out those 1984 widows out there fianically . If there is please direct us to site/email so that we can make donations???

If there isnt any then i would say this is shame thing for us.

Just wanna say that N30, one doesnt have to be khalistani to be doing such thing.

As for how much they are helping ppl financially, you have to remember that they lost everything for the cause, their family, wealth so for us to say that if they dont help others financially is shame on us not them.

[guv]

How can you ignore sant baba thakur singh ji maharapursh bachan

:?:

[Guest]

As for how much they are helping ppl financially, you have to remember that they lost everything for the cause, their family, wealth so for us to say that if they dont help others financially is shame on us not them.

But they are the ones who bringing this awareness of helping sikh widows to the sangat.. arent they???

What kinda awareness is this which is not praticed but only preached???

[Singh47]

“ you think sant ji is shaheed then you have completely lost the post. How can you ignore sant baba thakur singh ji maharapursh bachan... or are you one of those sikhs who beleive sant baba thakur singh has links with rss just because rss came in to pay their respect.

Please Clarify!!!â€

Baba Takhur Singh jee’s bachan is that Sant Jee will be arriving in the year 2004. Now it is 2004, and if by the end of 2004 Sant Jarnail Singh Jee does not come back, then even you will have to admit that he a Shaheed. I personally am going with the Panth and Akal Takht on this one which has declared Sant Jee as Shaheed. Even his son says his father is Shaheed. Anyway, let’s not go of topic on this one. I’ll just wait for the end of 2004. Personally, I hope he comes back if he is not Shaheed.

“Air India Case... your beloved Inderjit Singh Reyat already admitted guilty for making an bomb.â€

My “beloved� I don’t even know him! N30 Singh you need to understand the politics of this trial. Inderjit Singh admitted to manslaughter because that would mean he will be released sooner and be with this family, with whom he has been unable to be with for a very long time. It was just a tactical move on Interjit Singh reyats part, nothing more! It was more of a victory for him rather than the Canadian prosecutors who have no forensic evidence against the accused.

All the prosecution has are these desperate turncoat Punjabis trying to get 15 minutes of fame. But even they cant hold their ground when they have to answer to the defense team.

“And our beloved Mr Bagri. I have saw his disguisting video of threating to kill 50,000 hindus..what else is there??? That just shows who fanatic he is!! “

So what if he said that! That doesn’t mean he carried that out. Even Sant Jarnail Singh made similar remarks which were later taken out of context by the Indian media and GOI in order to attack Darbar Sahib. I have said things like this in my lifetime as well, but I have not killed anyone.

[Singh47]

“But they are the ones who bringing this awareness of helping sikh widows to the sangat.. arent they???

What kinda awareness is this which is not praticed but only preached???â€

How do you know it’s not being practiced by people? I know of people who send money every month to India in order to take care of Shaheed families. Sure more can and should be done, but to say that nothing is being done is nothing short of absurdity.

[Guest]

Why dont you guys make an offical website regarding that???

[Singh47]

Why dont you guys make an offical website regarding that???

Actually Veer, there was a website about this, which showed our views and proved that the oppositions case was very fragile and weak. But due to some pressure from the likes of the Tara Hayer lobby of supporters, Ujjal Dosanjh that site was forced to be shut down.

[shindasingh]

Baba Takhur Singh jee’s bachan is that Sant Jee will be arriving in the year 2004. Now it is 2004, and if by the end of 2004 Sant Jarnail Singh Jee does not come back, then even you will have to admit that he a Shaheed. I personally am going with the Panth and Akal Takht on this one which has declared Sant Jee as Shaheed. Even his son says his father is Shaheed. Anyway, let’s not go of topic on this one. I’ll just wait for the end of 2004. Personally, I hope he comes back if he is not Shaheed.

Sant Baba Takhur Singh's bachan is that sant is in chardi kalaa and will come back when they are given hukam from akaal to do so, and that the time is coming close. Baba Ji has never said anything about 2004. That's just a year assumed by premi's because its 20 years, a nice even number since the attacks.

Even his son says his father is Shaheed

His son also asked for forgiveness from Baba Ji saying he felt pressured to say this. And Sant Ji has two sons, only one of his sons made this claim.

On the topic of discussion however, N3O, there are various organizations who donate money to the families of Shaheed Parvaars, one big one that comes to North America a lot to do there fundraising parchaar is the Gur Aasra Trust. I do not have their contact information but I'm sure it can be found through some quick google searches.

As per my views I don’t think this PM will be of any use to the Sikh nation. Even before reading about his comments in regards to India's Human Right violations, I felt that he was just another puppet, simply because he’s with Congress.

Personally I think this was just a move by the government to prevent any possible Khalistan up-rise. Manmohan Singh’s appointment to office is close to the 20th anniversary of operation blue star, only off by a few weeks. His appointment will be the front-page news story for many weeks to come, kind of rubbing anything to do with 1984 from the front of newspapers.

It also makes the government look good in light of the operation blue star attack, because it shows that in the last 20 years Sikhs have been given every ample opportunity in India to rise into power i.e Manmohan Singh is a Sikh and is also the nations leader. This not only makes India look real good but will also cause for many to be like, "well the government has proven that it holds no enmity with the Sikhs, so 1984 really was the fault of a few radicals."

I know my views will bring about the usual "pro-khalistani paranoia" for which I could care less, because in the end we can only let time unveil what the future has in store, but before people start jumping up and down, because a "sikh" has risen to power, I can only recall the actions of those before who where also "sikh" such as KPS Gill.

“Now you tell me who won? They see us and they runâ€

[SUKHBIR]

Waheguru Ji Ka Khalsa Waheguru Ji Ki Fateh,

Dear Sukhbir,

I really enjoy your previous posts and i like this one as well accept your naivness of air india case. And I appolized for ignorance on behalf of my side regarding Congress history.:

Thank you, but it is not naivety that leads me to my comment regarding the Air india case, instead the knowledge that had this case been as 'clear cut' as you seem to suggest then it would not be one of the longest running cases in Canadian legal history!

Regardless of declarations of guilt by any one individual there was undoubtedly Indian government connivance in this atrocity. Have you read the book 'soft target'? It may not be for some conclusive in its findings but it certainly raises enough question's about the covert involvement of agencies of the GOI, whatever the involvement of the individuals on trial you can be sure many more will go unpunished.

Further this post was about the impact of a Sikh PM on the movement for Sikh self determination, rather than the air india trial, my feeling is that you were presumptive in your suggestion of the guilty which is very much a question of speculation at this time and may continue to be so.

I shall ask this question.

I wanted to know if there is any khalistani out there in western countries who would die to get 1984 victims justice right now???? .:

Without meaning to offend N30 this is something of a ridiculous question to put to any one person. I would hope that Sikhs regardless of their political ideology would, if neccesary, in the tradition of their faith place their lives at the feet of the almighty in order to gain justice for the victims of tyranny, Sikh or otherwise, this is not a matter of whether they are (to use your terms) 'khalistani' or not, frankly a divisive term that is intended to fragment and distort rather than offer any real understanding of people who are Sikhs who do believe that their future as a people/nation is, best served by the establishment of a autonomous Sikh state.

What do you mean by justice? Legal accountability for crimes?

You seem to assume that the only way that progress may be made is at the barrel of a gun, please re-read my post with regards to diplomacy and political lobbying. Sikhs in western countries are using effective democratic means to raise awareness of the victims of 84, this is the most effective means of shaming india at this time, the fact that it does not involve the literal giving of ones life does not draw from that.

The fact that their are so many Sikhs who would certainly not consider themselves 'khalistani' who wish to forget our recent history does much to hinder the victims cause.

The March in Hyde park on June 6th will be attended by people who have taken out their time and in most cases done so for the past twenty years, to raise awareness of the 84 victims ask anyone of these people if they believe in the struggle for sovereignty, unanimously yes. You may ask why should the memory of the 84 victims be the sole preserve of those who believe in Sikh secession from india? The question is actually posed in reverse, it should be, why do those who remember the victims of 84 believe in Sikh secession? The answer is in the question.

Forget about fighting over pen.. rest of the world knows how devil indian politics is...worry about those widows who are suffering.

ok 2nd question.

Are any khalistani based groups out there who is helping out those 1984 widows out there fianically . If there is please direct us to site/email so that we can make donations??? .:

The widows of 84 and their families are not just the concern of those Sikhs you label 'khalistanis' but they should be on the conscience of the entire Sikh nation, it is certainly not helped by those Sikhs who wish to forget the entire episode in order to preserve indian hegemony.

There are groups who raise money to help run orphanages for the children of 84( i will forward you details) being in such a role would of course preclude their involvement in issues of a political nature the same would apply to charities in general.

This does not detract from the points I raised with regard to the appointment of Mr Singh, the subject of the thread and my opinion that he by virtue of past record, will not deliver justice to the Sikh's.

If there isnt any then i would say this is shame thing for us.

I ll wait for your answers pateintly. And give you money figures groups like satnaam trust of bc have scammed from punjabi community to fill up their warm pockets. .:

Because some people have decided to line their pockets through the misery of others cannot be used as reason to ignore the plight of these people nor is it reason to taint the good work of genuine people. Any community on issue's such as these could cite instances of fraud it is not unique to any group or cause.

There is huge difference between khalistan movement back in sant ji and right now! I m sure you can figure out what???.:

Not sure what you mean by this, what 'movement' are you referring to? For there is no single movement at this time that could be categorised as the movement for khalistan and you cannot surely categorise various people by a common denominator.

As example I wholeheartedly believe in the Sikh right to self determination, so does a colleague of mine who dealt with a lot of asylum applications from Sikhs in the mid-late eighties, he gained his knowledge of the subject both first hand and through personal research his name is Ross and he's scottish, does that make me and Ross 'khalistanis'?

One thing that is evident is that you have a very negative view of what you describe as 'khalistani, this may be the case for a multitude of reasons,personal experience etc. Although I am sure you have cited these on previous post's more focused on the issue of Sikh independence rather than the incoming PM.

Sorry to be repetitive, but the thread was about the impact of a Sikh PM on the struggle for self determination, my post dealt in volume with this point and contended there is no impact on this issue, that is still my contention, where as your first post saw the appointment of Mr Singh as a positive move that damaged the cause of Sikh secession, since you have not posed any questions on these particular points I can conclude that you accept the points made. N30 you have posed your questions and I have provided answers but please be aware that if the current course of posting continues it is inevitable that the thread will end up far from its original intention.

Gur Fateh

Sukhbir Singh