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This is truly sad.Just what exactly does the teaching of Satguru Nanak mean to these people?All they ever go on about is admin cut this admin cut that.They must have truly sad and meaningless lives.I pity such poor insecure souls.Why do they constantly do nindia of Baba Santa Singh?If they don't like the guy, why don't they go up to him and call him a admin cut to his face?The internet, the abode of the insecure coward.

Have mercy on us dear Satguru Nanak Devaan Dev.

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Also, a lot of people seem to contain Namdhari's alongside nirankari's and radha-soami's. But to the best of my knowledge, kukai aren't really that bad. Yes, we differ in that we believe that the Gurguddi was passed to Guru Granth Sahib wheras they believe Guru Gobind Singh Ji Maharaj went into 'hiding'. But Namdhari's retained the Raag vidiya that a lot of Sikhs decided to forsake in favour of the harmonium.

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Beast, they'd be cool, BUT they don't believe Guru Granth Sahib as eternal and living Guru... they can't even be qualified in the same breath as sikhs..... i respect their gurmat sangeet too, and i've said that before, cuz i think that's something we should strive for, but they just can't be Sikhs if they think Guru Gobind Singh Ji went into HIDING when Sikhs all around him were being murdered... i'm sorry, that jus sounds like they're trying to call Guru Gobind Singh Ji a coward in the face of danger...

how can naamdharis really be called sikhs..

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how can naamdharis really be called sikhs..

How can udhasis, kabir panthis are consider sikhs then???

Thats where narrow minded of sikhs coming in...

My defination of Sikh: Any person who have known importance of having guroo or murshad to merge with akal purkh/pratma is a sikh. Thats where siri guroo granth sahib ji ponders upon and thats what the overall updesh is- Naam.

Be it if you are muslim, hindu, chrisitian, red, yellow, white, purple!!!!!!!!!!!!

If you consider baba siri chand, bhagat kabir, baba farid sikh then you also have to consider their panthis(followers) sikh toooooooooooo!

If ya ask me... i ll call a sufi sikh, hindu sikh, muslim sikh , buddha sikh as long as they have a murshad and naaaaam given by their murshad!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Broaden your horizon bro. Satguroo nanak dev nirankar didnt give us and bless us with siri guroo granth sahib to fight who is sikh and who is not. He gave his internal jot to understand the siri guroo granth sahib and message behind it.

Khatri, Bhramin, Vaaid Shaud||

Updesh Chuoo varna noo sanjha||

When SGPC created the defination of Sikh. They have forgotten the Universality of Satguroo nanak dev Nirankar. No wonder they are still trying to determine who is sikh and who is not ... :LOL::LOL::LOL:

Dont try to fit guroo nanak which is jot of nirankar(ocean) into a small bowl(your mat). Trust me you wont be able to do it !!!!!!!

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i don't know too much about Naamdharis, but i think i agree with jsb. belief in SGGSJ is central to Sikhi.

neo, Muslims and Hindus and Jews etc. are all sikhs in the sense that they are disciples of their own respective faiths. but since they don't read SGGSJ, i don't think that we can call them Sikhs in the traditional sense of the word.

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Neoji

I like the fact that you take a lot of time out to write some of the articles you got in that booklet but you are wrong on this one

You complain about fanatics giving a limited defination of a Sikh but then you do the complete opposite and make anyone and everyone a Sikh. You defintion doesn't fit in with the definition of a Sikh that the Gurus left us with. Maybe you know better than our Gurus :shock:

You need to differentiate between a sikh and a Sikh. A sikh as the word originally meant can be anyone who is a student, a school is full of sikhs. A university is full of sikhs. But a Sikh is the followers of the Ten Gurus and the Guru Granth Sahib.

The first definition of a Sikh is given in Gurbani. Guru Ram Das says

Fourth Mehl:

One who calls himself a Sikh of the Guru, the True Guru, shall rise in the early morning hours and meditate on the Lord's Name.

Upon arising early in the morning, he is to bathe, and cleanse himself in the pool of nectar.

Following the Instructions of the Guru, he is to chant the Name of the Lord, Har, Har. All sins, misdeeds and negativity shall be erased.

Then, at the rising of the sun, he is to sing Gurbani; whether sitting down or standing up, he is to meditate on the Lord's Name.

One who meditates on my Lord, Har, Har, with every breath and every morsel of food - that GurSikh becomes pleasing to the Guru's Mind.

That person, unto whom my Lord and Master is kind and compassionate - upon that GurSikh, the Guru's Teachings are bestowed.

Servant Nanak begs for the dust of the feet of that GurSikh, who himself chants the Naam, and inspires others to chant it. ||2||

Can Jews, Muslims and Christians and Hindus be called under this definition?. You can try and modify the meaning of Updes Guru ( instructions of the Guru) to mean the instructions given by the prophets of these religion but then you are giving Gurbani a meaning which the Gurus or the Sikh scholars like Bhai Gurdas did not give.

As Gursikhi was was revealed through each successive Guru then the definition of a Sikh was added to. Finally you have the Khalsa who is both a Singh and a Sikh. The others are just on their ways to becoming a Khalsa.

As for Namdharis, can anyone who messes with the history of our Guru have the right to call himself a Sikh?

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I agree with jsb, sukhi_v and sikh princess that there is a dispute on whether the Namdhari's deserve to be called Sikhs. However, wheras their beliefs are different to ours, at least they are not as bad as nirankari's and radha-soami's, who have on numerous occasions shown a vile disregard for the Guru Granth Sahib.

The question on whether Namdhari's are Sikhs is debatable, but they should not be put in the same bracket as radha-soami's and nirankari's who cannot justifiably label themselves as Sikhs. Namdhari's have never been blasphemous towards the 10 Guru's, wheras the other two have.

Just to repeat from my earlier post, we should be grateful to the Namdhari's for preserving Raag vidiya, and also accept the fact that they have different beliefs to ourselves.

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What about all the uncles/aunty's and the thousands of punjabis's that cut their hair/drink/eat meat sleep around and then go to bow to Guru Granth Sahib on Sunday are they more "Sikh"?

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^ but they still mann the Guru Granth Sahib as their Guru. Their belief in Sikhi as a whole may not be as great as some of the members on this forum, but I'm sure that not even they would deny that.

If a person in their heart believes the Guru Granth Sahib to be their Guru then who are we to judge whether they are Sikh or not? Let Dharam-Raj deal with that, while we carry on striving to be Gursikhs/better people.

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Fourth Mehl:

One who calls himself a Sikh of the Guru, the True Guru, shall rise in the early morning hours and meditate on the Lord's Name.

Upon arising early in the morning, he is to bathe, and cleanse himself in the pool of nectar.

Following the Instructions of the Guru, he is to chant the Name of the Lord, Har, Har. All sins, misdeeds and negativity shall be erased.

Then, at the rising of the sun, he is to sing Gurbani; whether sitting down or standing up, he is to meditate on the Lord's Name.

One who meditates on my Lord, Har, Har, with every breath and every morsel of food - that GurSikh becomes pleasing to the Guru's Mind.

That person, unto whom my Lord and Master is kind and compassionate - upon that GurSikh, the Guru's Teachings are bestowed.

Servant Nanak begs for the dust of the feet of that GurSikh, who himself chants the Naam, and inspires others to chant it. ||2||

As far i know muslim (sufi sect), buddhist and hindu all give importance to amrit-vela!

Dont really know about orhodox chrisitans but i have a jew freind who wakes up early morning to mediate on naam using rosary 108 bead.

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Also, what gives the person who wrote the site the authority to deem who is acceptable to Sikhi and who is not?

How dare they try and decide for the rest of us who is anti-panthic. Yes, present evidence against each website for their flaws and views against Sikhi, but don't try to brainwash us into believing what 'proper' Sikhi is.

Terming Baba Santa Singh a 'nan-g' is the cheapest insult - have the guts to go up to him and call him a nan-g.

Fully agree with Hari

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Hinduism gives importance to karma and reincarnation

Islam gives importance to the belief in One God.

The Mughals gave impmortance to the warrior spirit.

Al Qaeda believes in making reliigion their number one priority

Timothy Mcveigh Attended church on a weekly basis.....

according to your theory N30 Singh, all the above are sikhs...:S

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Hinduism gives importance to karma and reincarnation

Islam gives importance to the belief in One God.

The Mughals gave impmortance to the warrior spirit.

Al Qaeda believes in making reliigion their number one priority

Timothy Mcveigh Attended church on a weekly basis.....

according to your theory N30 Singh, all the above are sikhs...:S

Quite right JSB veer

I think Aurangzeb had some sort of Muslim holy man or Mullah as his Murshid. So according to Neo Aurangzeb was a Sikh as well!. lol

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I agree with what Sikh Princess wrote in her original post...

As per neo's comparrison of namdharis vs udasi's etc, although the lineage is different in the end, the udasi's came around and united under Sahib Sri Guru Granth Sahib. I dont think they confuse that Guru Nanak Dev ji gave Gur-Ghadi to Sri Guru Anged Dev Sahib Ji...

Another note, something thats been on my mind as of late, what if a new branch/sect starts tomarrow that claims one of the Guru's was never Guru. I.e say they expell Sri Guru Har Rai Sahib Ji as guru and instead in there place put some one else in there place. They literally try to prove this and come out with some "purtaan" texts as there reference. However there linage comes back to Sri Guru Granth Sahib Ji as being Guru.

Although this sect starts of small they start growing in size naturally, and we soon now get the new debate over wheater or not Sri Guru Har Rai Sahib ji was Guru or not.

Now for argument sake SGPC is still in charge of things, and they are now naturally dumbfounded in regards to this new debate and again take the neutral stance applying there famous either or clause.

How would Sikhs of today react then?

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according to the Sikh Rehit Maryada at the aforementioned SGPC website, a sikh is one who believes in Guru Nanak Dev Ji up till Guru Gobind Singh Ji, and Believes in Guru Granth Sahib Ji as eternal living Guru. A sikh is also one who believes in the instute of Amrit as a means of baptism for sikhs.

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As far i know muslim (sufi sect), buddhist and hindu all give importance to amrit-vela!

Dont really know about orhodox chrisitans but i have a jew freind who wakes up early morning to mediate on naam using rosary 108 bead.

Neoji

Can you read my post before replying.

Do Muslims, Jews and others believe in GURBANI or GURU UPDESH ( Guru's teachings ) ?

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I reckon my post was misinterpetrated but more ridiculed.

Let me clarify.

I m not asking or lookin for instances where jews, muslims and christians follow guroo updesh but i m focusing on siri guroo granth sahib message to the human kind.

The universality. Updesh belongs to everyone.

Now there are instances back in guroo's time where sufi sect in islam, hindus and buddism (their nanak lama) have inspired by guru nanak philosphy and use guroo nanak updesh to their way of enlightment which is naam, dhaan, ishanan.

Now would u feel insult if you were to call baba farid/bhagat namdev/bhagat ravi das/bhagat kabir/bhagat sadhna/bhagat parlad who belong to different dharma's an sikhs of akaal purkh.

If you do feel insulted then you havent broken the matrix.

If you consider them sikhs then you have to consider their followers such as kabir panthis, baba farid followers from islamic sect- sufism sikh toooooooooooooooo!!!!!!

Regarding Namdharis. Their sant mahapursh didnt call themselves guroo as in compare them with 11 jot of guroo nanak dev ji but they meant more like guroo in sanskrit terminology which is-

Guru- Bringing one from darkness to lightness.

Mind you Guru is a sanskrit term. We cant have manoply over this term.

Yes if they ridiculing our guroo maharaj's, panj pyarei's, guroo maryada alinged with nirankaris then they deserve resistance just like resistance was given to fake nirankaris in times of 1978 and on wards.

I hope i m clear this time.

As far SGPC goes. This poor institution took the satguroo dasam patshah bani (dasam bani) threw out of the window when they took over. What they goin to teach us!!

I agree with lalleshvari here. SGPC was born out of nothing but bunch of evil frangiii's (european descent) to divide and rule the panth!

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you're right Guru is a sanskrit term.. but i don't thin you're right when you say that that's what they mean when they call their sants Guru... cuz if that was the case they wouldn't add:

Shri Satguru Bhai (insert name here) Singh Ji

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getting back to the point of the thread... just think about this...

if someone tells u NOT to do something, what's the first thing u want to do? (eg. try to not think about monkeys... see how long u can last... it's incredibly difficult, because your mind keeps taking u back to those damn monkeys!)

now if someone says, do NOT go to these websites... what's the first thing u're going to do?? lol... they're using reverse psychology without realising it & sending everyone to exactly the sites they don't want them to go to!!! they're doing the advertising for them... talk about shooting yourself in the foot!! :LOL:

nb. no matter what u do, do NOT go to the following website! ;)

http://www.khalsaalliance.org/index.php?pagename=alerts

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guv, have you ever shot yourself in the foot? if you haven't, i don't think you sholud be commenting on it, because you don't have the knowledge of that to comment on it (i sound like lallesh, i love it!)....you have no authority on foot-shooting thyself, so please refrain from saying such evil and vile comments

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lol ...i don't think no one else knows how gud of a sikh are you then ur own self..

u can on da outside practice da best of sikhi, but yet be da most corrupted sikh on da inside

only u can define wot kind of sikh you are..

cuz there is sum ****** up pretenders in da house

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