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Namdhari Sangeet?


Guest Sehjo Kaur
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Guest Sehjo Kaur

GurFateh

Why are Namdharis so advanced in instrumental music? Serious question. Also, if there are any members who are Namdharis here on the forum, please could you share with us how you do your riyaaz, timing and also leading day to day life involving jobs and family etc.

Fateh

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I also heard that Namdhari's were goven money by the British during colonial times. Don't know what this has to do with their exceptional talent in Raag kirtan though.

Maybe its because they perservered with stringed instruments rather than make life easy for themselves by learning the vhaja.

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Guest Sehjo Kaur

Yeah, Beasty you're right. Money hasnt given them the talent, but allowed 'em to devote more time to our Sangeet, Gurbani Sangeet that is. Its amazing tho, they are so talented in instrumental Sangeet..agree with Rupz and Rupy too (I thought you were the same person :o ).

Sad tho..hear of Sikhs goin to learn from them a lot, but no one comin to Sikh teachers skilled in Puratan Sangeet, we should invest time and money into talented people too..otherwise we'll lose this great heritage.

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Guest Javanmard

Money from the British? That's new! That's probably why Baba Ram Singh was deported by the British to a prison in Burma and why Namdharis were hanged for they anti-British activities.

But I guess some people will tell me:

Wait, lalleshvari you are wrong!

The British took Baba Ram Singh on a holiday to Burma and he loved it so much he never came back and that's why the Namdharis commited suicide by hanging themselves!

I guess that's the "logical" and "panthic" explanation I am supposed to accept. :roll:

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Raag Maryada is the Maryada of the Satguru and can only be found in the House of the Satguru. This article will shed some light: http://www.tribuneindia.com/2003/20030406/spectrum/main1.htm

This dumb story of Namdhari Singhs or the Namdhari Darbar receiving money from British is downright disturbing and completely UNTRUE. If the British had given money to the Namdharis, WHY WERE NAMDHARIS NOT ALLOWED TO ACCEPT JOBS OFFERED BY THE BRITISH (INCLUDING MILITARY) UNTIL INDIA'S INDEPENDENCE? WHY WERE NAMDHARIS THROWN INTO JAILS FOR DOING AKHAND PATH? WHY DO NAMDHARIS TO THIS DAY PRAY FOR THE END OF THE WESTERN TYRANNY IN THEIR ARDAS? WHY WAS IT BANNED FOR NAMDHARIS TO GATHER IN GROUPS OF MORE THAN 4 THROUGHOUT PUNJAB? WHY WAS A POLICE POST PLACED OUTSIDE GURDWARA SRI BHAINI SAHIB FOR 52 YEARS AFTER SATGURU RAM SINGH WERE SENT TO EXILE?

Those who say such dumb things should be ashamed of themselves!

If something is not clear, PM me.

-------------------

Fateh Singh

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Just wanted to quickly point out that the picture posted by 'guv' is of no authentic origin nor historically correct.

A translation of Panth Parkash was posted on this forum not too long ago and as Giani Gian Singh, who was an eye witness to the execution of Namdhari Singhs who were blown by cannons after killings Muslims in Malerkotla had clearly written: UNRESTRAINED, they rushed before the cannons like moths flying into flames.

Also the Singhs who were blown by cannons were not 50 or 60+ as falsely portrayed in this propaganda-based picture. They were young, fit Nihang Singhs.

Thanks,

Fateh Singh

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There are just under 30 verses in Naveen Panth Prakash that speak of the greatness of Naamdharis (aka Kuka/Kooka Sikhs). Giani Gian Singh ends by stating:

'Nirmala, Nihang and Kookai, these three are great in virtues. I have spoken of their distinctions and are known as 'Singhs'.'

Naveen Panth Prakash, Giani Gian Singh Nirmala, 1889, edited by Giani Kirpal Singh

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There has been much said under the Naamdhari thread on the similarities between their maryada and that of Nihangs and Udasis stemming from the lineage they possess from Baba Ram Singh (a Nihang Singh in the army of Nau Nihal Singh) and Baba Balak Das (or Singh, as commonly portrayed), respectively.

I think the implication of Fateh singh's statement was that Nihang singhs were taking part in the kuka movement. I don't think this is about maryada, it is whether any or all the kukas that were blown up by canons were nihangs. This is very doubtful because there was even well before that time a great deal of animosity between nihangs and kukas

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Please explain the significance of diets with regards to Naamdhari Sangeet? Is there any evidence that vegetarians do better Gurmat Sangeet than meat eaters?

Are we to assume that anyone shot alongside Naamdharis were also vegetarians? I am impressed by such flawless logic....

btw, http://www.shastarvidiya.org/htmls/mahapar...troduction.html

..provides ample evidence (scriptural, historical) with regards to the diets of "Puratan Nihangs", including quotes from the respected Akali Nihang Baba Nihal Singh.

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But Narsingha, the reason why the Kukas killed those butchers was because they perceived animal butchery as being morally and Dharmically wrong. So if the Nihangs also took part in this operation alongside with the Kukas, then naturally at that point of time in Punjab they also perceived animal butchery as being morally and Dharmically wrong! Thus they must have been vegetarians like the Kukas who killed those butchers.

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No Singh47, I have seen others using Dr. Sangat Singh's book make this same mistake. He doesn't specifically state WHICH type of butchers the Naamdharis were attacking;

If you check the historical records, it was 'cow-killer's' the Namdharis attacked and killed. Namdharis also venerate Ugardanthi bani in which there is a line about protecting the cow. Furthermore, perhaps Narsingha can clarify, that for Nihangs cow-killing is also taboo. And it is this that is 'dharmically wrong'.

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Well, the cow is sacred...Gurblias Shemi (chapter 16) speaks of Guru Hargobind Sahib being the protector of the brahmin (ie, holy men) and the cow.

As you have pointed yout jtsingh, Oogardanti Baani speaks of cow killing as a sin. Guruji speaks :

"Give me this command that I may grab Turks and destroy them. The great evil of cow-killing may I stop in this world. The throne of the Moghals may I destroy"

(Oogardanti Baani)

"Fulfil this desire of mine. May suffering of cows stop. May the victory of the true Guru resound through out the world.

(Oogardanti Baani)

A text by Monier Williams, 'Religious Thought and Life in India' (1883) also speaks of killing of cows as "the most henious of crimes".

Giani Gian Singh speaks of the actions of Akali Nihang Baba Jassa Singh Ahluwalia as:

"Though, he was very against killing of cows. To stop this, he attacked many times Lahore and Kasur, and slayed the cow butchers."

Twarikh Guru Khalsa, Giani Gian Singh (1894), Pa 734

As far as I recall, the text 'Kookiyan Di Vithia', by Ganda Singh mentions that against the orders of Baba Raam Singh, some Naamdharis killed innocent Muslim butchers (who were killing cows for meat). On 17th Jan 1872, 50 of them were shot for this crime by the British officer McCowan, using cannons.

In case people assume that Nihangs were vegetarians because they did not agree with cow slaughter, here is a portion from ‘History Of The Sikhs’ (1978) that speaks of Akali Nihang Baba Jassa Singh Ahluwalia:

‘Jassa Singh was a great warrior, mighty general and eminent organiser. He bore thirty-two scars of sword cuts and bullet marks on the front part of his body and none on his back. He was a giant in body. His breakfast consisted of one kilogram of flour, one half-kilogram of butter, one-quarter crystalline sugar slabs (‘Misri’), and one bucket of butter-milk (‘Lassi’). One he-goat sufficed him for two meals.’

‘History Of The Sikhs’, Hari Ram Gupta (1978), Vol 4, Pa 43-44

Hari Ram Gupta continues:

‘Cow slaughter was strictly forbidden. He had no scruples against Muslim leather bucket (‘Boki’’Boka’) and leather sack (‘Mashak’). Boki was called ‘Raam Dol’ (God’s vessel). His ‘Langar’ ran day and night for everybody, Hindu, Muslim, Sikh or Christian. ‘Sukha’ (cannabis-laced drink), ‘Sardai’ (sweet and cold tonic) and opium were supplied free.’

‘History Of The Sikhs’, Hari Ram Gupta (1978), Vol 4, Pa 43-44

(I didnt realise every Nihang-related thread would end up being a discussion on diet and Chatka)

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Singh47, If you really want to know, why don't you PM me?

and Baba Balak Das (or Singh, as commonly portrayed), respectively.

I would really think twice or thrice before reading books written by non-Namdharis about Namdharis without reading Namdhari sources to cross-check. Because they cannot tell a single truth that's against their own 'panthic' view. I've read atleast a couple of dozen articles and books about Namdhari Panth including very authentic/Puratan sources and have NEVER heard of 'Baba Balak 'Das' to this day. Do Udassis get married and live a Grehsat (household) way of life?

I don't want to argue over things that happend 100 years ago with people who are not willing to listen. For if they were, they wouldn't write such things in the first place.

However, to be fair, let's check out these two articles written by NON-NAMDHARI writers (scholars?) about RECENT (Not even 50 years old) Namdhari History that have been published on this very forum:

http://sikhawareness.com/sikhawareness/vie...&highlight=1976

and http://sikhawareness.com/sikhawareness/vie...&highlight=1976

Now these both articles are about what happened in 1976 when Satguru Jagjit Singh Ji blessed London with rain. (By the way, isn't it funny that when something like this happens, we're suddenly 'Sikhs' and even 'Gursikhs' but when we follow our Maryada and do things that are 'not acceptible' to the 'mainstream sikhs' and their 'leaders' such as Havan for example, we're suddenly 'pseudo-sikhs' and 'tankhahiyas'.)

Both the articles have minor 'contradictions' when you read them. But what's best of all? THEY'RE BOTH FAKE!

NO AKHAND PATH WAS EVER PERFORMED AND THE ARDAS WAS ALSO NOT PERFORMED BY SATGURUJI. WORST OF ALL, THEY DON'T EVEN MENTION A WORD ABOUT NAMDHARIS!

There are atleast 5 or 7 Namdhari websites out there including a Namdhari Yahoo Group for those who are 'willing' and 'want' to know something about Namdharis. But sadly most people are just happy with their 'unconditional hatred' and 'blind rejection' of whatever doesn't fit their 'politcally sikh' views.

If you read from non-Namdhari sources that are bent on attacking us without any sense of morality, then also have the guts to read what Namdharis have written. IF YOU DON'T WANT TO READ WHAT NAMDHARIS HAVE WRITTEN, FINE! BUT DON'T COME ON THESE 'DISCUSSION' (personal-attack?) FORUMS AND SHOW OFF YOUR 'SMARTNESS'.

God Bless.

Fateh Singh

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