America = Terrorism, true or false

[Beast]

76,000 American and Filipino prisoners of war were bound, beaten, or killed by their Japanese captors. Some were bayoneted when they fell from exhaustion. Some were forced to dig their own graves and were buried alive. Only 56,000 prisoners reached camp alive. Thousands of them later died from malnutrition and disease.

Are you justifying the deaths of 150,000 civilians because 20,000 soldiers (American and Philipino) were killed by the evil Japanese regime?

Nobody doubts these things, and in fact, we as Sikhs have more insight into massacres and slaughter than most. In our history, did Guru Gobind Singh Ji massacre innocent civilians because of Mughal tyranny?

When women were captured and raped, did Sikhs retaliate in kind? No!! Our ancestors (whatever our background) were role models on how we should behave in these situations!

Never lower yourself to your enemy's level.

[Jamuka]

seriously though, i get the feeling there are many ignorant people here

You dare call others ignorant when I've corrected so many factual errors in your posts?

Are you high on Sukha palm_w1 ?

Is that some kinda alcohol?

So via the bombings the Americans were actually doing Japanese people a favour by killing 150,000 of their citizens?

Citizens who supported the evil and cruel Hirohito. It is easy to sit on your fat ass in good old England and ridicule the actions of the one power that freed so many nations under cruel Japanese rule. None of your family members or friends were killed by the Japs in the 2nd world war so you take cheap pot shots at the US with absolutely no inclination of what you're talking about. Ok, what would YOU have suggested the US do in the 2nd world war? What would your suggestions be?

So the same repressed people that the US was trying to save were also the same ones shooting at the US? And did the USA use atomic bombs because its soldiers got shot dead by some trigger-happy Japanese citizens?

Your ignorance is astounding to say the least. Please before you go about ridiculing the actions of the US in the 2nd world war, get your facts right. Your knowledge is literally zilch and yet you go on slandering. I am not going to bother spoonfeeding you with detailed information by I will give you a clue...Iwojima. Remember, Google is your friend.

A third bomb??? You're a sick, twisted individual. A statement like that shows how inhuman you are. Go and play with apes and monkeys Jamuka, they are more at your level...that was a sick statement.

Beast, have you had any family members and friends under Japanese rule in the 2nd world war? Honestly apes and monkeys are far more humane then you will ever be, at least they know how to differentiate between an evil snake that is about to kill them and a friend from the rest of the ape family. You obviously don't. Your IQ level is lower then an apes. At least when you save a wild ape from a mortal enemy, it will remember you for that deed unlike you.

By the way, when we define ourselves as being Sikh a good standard bearer for us to use is to ask ourselves whether the Gurus would approve of our actions. Could you see Guru Gobind Singh Ji approving your wish to drop a third bomb 'for good measure'? I just hope that you said that in the heat of the moment, coz it was sick)

How dare you of people judge me when you have made such irrisponsible statements like the US being a terrorist state!!!! Who made you judge??? The US is home to millions of Sikhs today who are living prosperous lives because of it's leniant Green Card program and it's policies of treating it's citizen the same reagardless of race, color and creed.

Don't use the Gurus name in front of me. I will not debate with you on what the Guru Gobind might or might have not said in such a case because if I could, I would be a Guru myself, NO? How do you know what Guru Gobind Singhji might have done in such a situation? How arrogant of you to think that YOU would know how the Guru would have acted. Be careful, don't let your ego get the better of you.

That was a sick statement too...I'm calling the SPCA

LOL!!!

that is probably the most disgusting thing i've read, anywhere... ever. it's beyond inhumane... it's demonic!

jamuka, from your posts, u seem like an fairly intelligent person, but your last comment was just sick.

Try to understand this Guv, at the time the Japanese of those days are not even comparable to todays Japenese. They were far more crueler then Hitlers Nazy army. Millions of Asians were killed, maimed or raped by the Japenese imperial army. Have you heard of the term 'comfort women'? Have you heard of Nanking massacre? The Western world only knows about the holocaust but does not realise that the holocaust was a Sunday picnic compared to what the Japense did in Asia. I have got friends who have had their family members killed by them.

Everybody seems to be under the delusion that the Japenese Imperial Army was not supported by the Japanese people and the same for Nazi Germany. Hello, where do you think the members of the army come from? Another planet? It is fact that almost all Germans and Japanese supported Hitler and Emperor Hirohito. The bomb was dropped because the Japanese refused tp surrender. Civilians were signing up to be Kamikaze pilots and they would ram their planes into US American aircraft carriers. Thousand of US soldiers were stilled being killed despite the Axis losing the war. The bomb was the only way that finally brought the evil Hirohito regime to it's knees.

not to totally destroy ur argument, but i'm pretty sure that every nation in the world is guilty of doing similar things and still have civlians who believe that their country is the best. so why aren't we discussing them? why is everyone so focused on the U.S.? this thread seems pretty pointless...

Aaah Sukhi, did you like just do some naam simran? Why all of a sudden the benevolent attitude?

Bambookat raised a question about why is the US the greatest power in the world: the answer is they are financially much better off than the rest of the world, why is that, because their businesses go into third world counteries pay the ppl their below avg wages, make them work in sweatshop conditions so that they can make a 200x+ profit on it.... that's why....

Dearest CanadianJAtti, why the anti American stance? You are so far off base it's not even funny. Just to let you know, I work for an American Corporation while living in a 3rd world country and I thank God I have a job with a US multinational. In my country all the goverment jobs are given to the Muslims. Minorities like me can only hope survive by securing a job with a foreign company.

It is an undeniable fact that it is better to work for multinational compared to a local company. A local company will suck your blood dry. Work finishes at 5:30pm but don't hope you can go back for the boss expects you to stay until 7:30pm. What can you do? Nothing. Only in an American multinational there is fairness and guidelines are set so that employees are not treated like shit by the bosses. There are surveys conducted annually among employees and if management does not meet the minimum criteria, they might get the boot. We even have like a Union within the company. I tell you, no local or gevermental company in my country shows this amount of respect to it's employees. I am speaking from first hand experience.

Americans probably feel that the treatment of the prisoners of war in Iraq has been blown out of proportion or that Japan has committed more serious POW crimes in past history.... that was past history, and everyone back then treated the POW crappily... we are living in the 21st century here, basic human rights are guaranteed.... How can ppl excuse such behaviour, how can americans consider themselves role models after this....???????

Nobody is excusing it but what I am personally shocked at is the blatant bias in which the US is critisized at every turn while tin pot dictators get a free pass. At the most you willl hear a YES BUT...aaaah the famous yes but. This is downright unfair and dirty.

errr, last time i checked they shafted the germans with reparations which kept them artificially poor, one of the factors leading to hitlers rise to power and hence the 2nd world war. also america basically colonised japan and germany after the war, even to this day they keep massive military facilities there.

Do you not get fed up of your lies? FYI Germany is one of the richest states in the European nation.

So what is your point, the Japanese suffered under their own imperialist government and then u added to their suffering by deciding to nuke civilians (little babies, innocent women, OAP's etc).

You will only understand the implication of your BS if it was YOUR family members and friends that were killed by the Japs. Enjoy the freedom you possess to slander the US.

I hope u can sleep easily at night with images of more burning babies and nuclear deformitites that u have just wished upon more civilians. you are so extreme right wing u make Hitler look like a communist.

If you had made those statements about the Japs in a country like Korea, you would probably get your ass whooped. I sleep easy at night for I have my priorities right. I am not filled with hate for a nation that has done me no harm unlike you.

errr, what has islam got to do with this. firstly i am not defending islam, i think wahibist islam is actually very evil. But i don't label all muslims with the same brush, for e.g. bhai mardana

All this blatant anti Americanism can be blamed squarely on the left in the US. That will soon end. Like I said earlier, enjoy your time slandering the US as much as you want, that will soon change. Mark my words, in time we will witnessing a change among Americans and they will not be so nice anymore. It is already happening.

In our history, did Guru Gobind Singh Ji massacre innocent civilians because of Mughal tyranny?

When women were captured and raped, did Sikhs retaliate in kind? No!! Our ancestors (whatever our background) were role models on how we should behave in these situations!

Good lord Beast now you're comparing the US goverment to our Gurus!!! The US Goverment is made up of regular people like you and me and you believe that they and their actions are comparable to our Gurus??? Please realise this, you nor me nor anybody else is uncomparable to them for they were highly enlightened souls. None of us can ever compare to them unless you are arrogant ot believe otherwise.

[Beast]

Citizens who supported the evil and cruel Hirohito. It is easy to sit on your fat ass in good old England and ridicule the actions of the one power that freed so many nations under cruel Japanese rule. None of your family members or friends were killed by the Japs in the 2nd world war so you take cheap pot shots at the US with absolutely no inclination of what you're talking about. Ok, what would YOU have suggested the US do in the 2nd world war? What would your suggestions be?

So you're suggesting that only the families of victims are allowed to comment on the atrocities caused by any onenation? So why do you comment on Israel? So why do you defend USA?

Your ignorance is astounding to say the least. Please before you go about ridiculing the actions of the US in the 2nd world war, get your facts right. Your knowledge is literally zilch and yet you go on slandering. I am not going to bother spoonfeeding you with detailed information by I will give you a clue...Iwojima. Remember, Google is your friend.

My 'ignorance' was to highlight a contradiction in what YOU wrote.

How dare you of people judge me when you have made such irrisponsible statements like the US being a terrorist state!!!! Who made you judge??? The US is home to millions of Sikhs today who are living prosperous lives because of it's leniant Green Card program and it's policies of treating it's citizen the same reagardless of race, color and creed.

I didn't make myself judge of your actions. I asked you to judge your own actions using the tenets and principles of the Sikh faith as taught by our Gurus.

Nobody is excusing it but what I am personally shocked at is the blatant bias in which the US is critisized at every turn while tin pot dictators get a free pass. At the most you willl hear a YES BUT...aaaah the famous yes but. This is downright unfair and dirty.

The problem is, the US only sees these tin pot dictators when they pose a threat to America itself. Then, under the pretence of global security, the US attempts to eradicate said dictator.

You will only understand the implication of your BS if it was YOUR family members and friends that were killed by the Japs. Enjoy the freedom you possess to slander the US.

Again, you say only families of victims should be able to comment on atrocities yet you freely talk about Palestinians and Israelites yourself.

Quote:

In our history, did Guru Gobind Singh Ji massacre innocent civilians because of Mughal tyranny?

When women were captured and raped, did Sikhs retaliate in kind? No!! Our ancestors (whatever our background) were role models on how we should behave in these situations!

Good lord Beast now you're comparing the US goverment to our Gurus!!! The US Goverment is made up of regular people like you and me and you believe that they and their actions are comparable to our Gurus??? Please realise this, you nor me nor anybody else is uncomparable to them for they were highly enlightened souls. None of us can ever compare to them unless you are arrogant ot believe otherwise.

ahhh, I see you've been taking tips from members like nanidhi in quoting out of context. Let me give you the quote again, you may have missed something the first time:

Are you justifying the deaths of 150,000 civilians because 20,000 soldiers (American and Philipino) were killed by the evil Japanese regime?

Nobody doubts these things, and in fact, we as Sikhs have more insight into massacres and slaughter than most. In our history, did Guru Gobind Singh Ji massacre innocent civilians because of Mughal tyranny?

When women were captured and raped, did Sikhs retaliate in kind? No!! Our ancestors (whatever our background) were role models on how we should behave in these situations!

Points to note:

I made no comparison between US Govt and our Gurus. Don't try and twist this quote to your own ends. My point was to Bambookat about slaughter of humans and how we Sikhs understand this because of our own history.

The second example I gave (about womem being raped) was a hukam given by (I think) the Jathedar of the Budha Dal at a point in history after Guru Gobind Singh. If it really urgent I will get you the full details of the incident (unless someone here knows).

And yet most important of all, you have yet to justify your comment on dropping a 3rd bomb. Misdirection perhaps?

http://history1900s.about.com/library/weekly/aa072700a.htm

There had been four cities chosen as possible targets: Hiroshima, Kokura, Nagasaki, and Niigata (Kyoto was the first choice until it was removed from the list by Secretary of War Henry L. Stimson). The cities were chosen because they had been otherwise relatively untouched during the war. The Target Committee wanted the first bomb to be "sufficiently spectacular for the importance of the weapon to be internationally recognized when publicity on it was released."3

While the people of Japan tried to comprehend the devastation in Hiroshima, the United States was preparing a second bombing mission. The second run was scheduled not to give Japan time to surrender, but was waiting only for a sufficient amount of plutonium-239 for the atomic bomb. On August 9, only three days after the bombing of Hiroshima, another B-29, Bock's Car (picture of crew), left Tinian at 3:49 a.m.

[palm_w1]

Beast forget arguing with this guy, he ignores all arguments which show the true nature of the US administration and goes of on his own random tangent. Anything that blatantly shows US terrorism is ignored and he just simply invents facts and so on. e.g. US massacre at My Lai.

I think the best way is to keep posting more about terrorism carried out by the US. It is blatantly obvious too everyone this guy is full of shit, everyone can tell by looking at his posts. Just let him keep on posting his nazi views and showing the world what he, i assume an american citizen, is really like.

God bless America for the My Lai massacre. (intense sarcasm intended)

[palm_w1]

Genocide of Native Americans by the USers

The native indians were the original inhabitants of the lands of the Americas. Agressive Europeans started their genocide while the lands were still European colonies. the newly declared United States continued similar conquests. Massacres occurred across the land such as the Wounded Knee Massacre. Not only was the method of massacre used, other methods for "Indian Removal" and "clearing" included military slaughter of tribal villages, bounties on native scalps, and biological warfare. After US independance the genocide of the native indians accelerated, and a population of millions of indians was reduced to a a few hundred thousand. The original peoples, the native americans had been robbed of their lands by the USers, been forced to sell at very cheap rates at gunpoint, or simply killed and had there lands annexed. They were pushed into reservations and kept drunk and drugged up so they would not question the virtual slavery they had been pushed into. Even to this day they are amongst the poorest strata in US society, the original lords of the land are now slaves to the USers.

Highlight: massacre at Wounded Knee

The Wounded Knee Massacre in 1890 (which was originally referred to by the United States army as the Battle of Wounded Knee -- a descriptive moniker that remains highly contested by the Native American community) is known as the event that ended the last of the Indian wars in America. As the year came to a close, the Seventh Cavalry of the United States Army brought an horrific end to the century-long U.S. government-Indian armed conflicts.

On the bone-chilling morning of December 29, devotees of the newly created Ghost Dance religion made a lengthy trek to the Pine Ridge Reservation in southwestern South Dakota to seek protection from military apprehension. Members of the Miniconjou Sioux (Lakota) tribe led by Chief Big Foot and the Hunkpapa Sioux (Lakota) followers of the recently slain charismatic leader, Sitting Bull, attempted to escape arrest by fleeing south through the rugged terrain of the Badlands. There, on the snowy banks of Wounded Knee Creek (Cankpe Opi Wakpala), nearly 300 Lakota men, women, and children -- old and young -- were massacred in a highly charged, violent encounter with U.S. soldiers.

http://isis.csuhayward.edu/ALSS/soc/NAN/dd/6800sj/slj.htm

http://free.freespeech.org/americanstatete...ianPeoples.html

http://www.nemasys.com/ghostwolf/Native/genocide.shtml

http://www.iearn.org/hgp/aeti/aeti-1997/na...-americans.html

http://www.socialstudieshelp.com/Lesson_41_Notes.htm

http://www.pilgrimhall.org/daymourn.htm

http://www.lastoftheindependents.com/wounded.htm

http://www.bgsu.edu/departments/acs/1890s/...ee/WKIntro.html

[Sukhi]

alright, i'm kinda gettin annoyed with all the negativity towards the U.S. in this thread. i'm sure that there's a whole lot of shit that people have against the states. but i'm sure that there's also a lot of good stuff that the U.S. has to offer. just because the States have done a whole of bad things, it doesn't mean that it's some sorta evil haven.

and here's another thing. if ppl are gonna point out the bad things the states have done, why can't we point out the bad stuff that the Brits have done, or the Germans, the Spanish, the French or even the Canadians? why is there this massive thread dedicated to simply hatin on the states? we're all human, people. everyone makes mistakes. everyone has a good side and a bad side. cut them some slack. there's no point in simply hating a nation without taking some sort of action to try an make things better, which no one is trying to do around here.

if you don't have the energy to do something about all the bad stuff that you've pointed out, then maybe you shouldn't be talkin bad about it.

apart from this, please take a look at the condition of things wherever u are. i'm sure that there's a whole bunch of things that need improvement there. why don't you try to make some sort of positive changes there before focusing on others.

it's so easy to point out the bad stuff in other people and other places, but it's so hard to look at the crap that you're a part of.

stop hatin on each other and end this stupidness. please.

[CaNaDiAn_jAtTi]

It's not the hating thing Sukhi....

But to me the problem kinda is that Americans refuse to see themselves as anything less than the world's saviours, they have to realise that they ain't no saints in this world here, they've got to realise that what their actions are are wrong, and that they should demand their government to stop this bs, and work things differently....

That's what needs to be done.....Americans need to wake up and smell the coffee...

(i think that they've been put to sleep through the use of chloroform or sumthing, i mean can they seriously be that sheltered)

[Sukhi]

i think that it's already been established that Americans have a lot of pride. but the way ppl in this thread are hatin on them isn't gonna do much except make other American ppl who see this stuff get even more pissed at everyone else. there's a way of saying things so that ur point is made without insulting others.

and another problem is that if the entire point of this thread is to break the pride of Americans by showing them how bad they really are, i sincerely doubt if it's gonna work. how would u feel if someone created a thread on a public forum specifically meant to point out all of your flaws and negative characteristics? wouldn't you get all defensive and close ur mind to everything that they said?

in the same way, this sorta humiliation isn't gonna open the eyes of any Americans. it'll make them dislike this thread and the ppl who've been pinpointing their every flaw fo sho. but it won't make them think any differently.

[CaNaDiAn_jAtTi]

hmmmm.... sukhi behn ji..... I've gotten that many times from my friends... i appreciate it though..... helps me become a better person, plus keeps my ego in check.....so for me, it helps, don't kno about others tho...

[Sukhi]

not everyone can be as humble and modest as urself CaNaDiAn_jAtTi.

[Beast]

lol, sorry if its seems like I'm a hater Sukhi - to set the record straight I don't hate the US people, I just think that the US government policicies leave a lot to be desired. (eg Kyoto Protocol)

On a global scale, the joint action of UK-USA in Iraq has probably caused more instability than it has solved. I was reading an article in this month's New Scientist about Colin Powell's embarrasment over a White House Report that wrongly stated that terrorism in 2003 was at its lowest levels ever. In fact, 2003 was the worst year for terrorism on record.

I welcome criticism of all governments, because it is this criticism that helps keep the government in check. Any decision that any government makes should be scrutinised closely and assessed for its impact. The UK government is not perfect, no government is - just like no person is perfect. But as humans, surely we should aim to get as close to perfect as possible? And surely all governments should do the same.

[Sukhi]

beast, i'm not trying to deny the fact that the Americans HAVE done bad things. but it's ridiculous to create a thread to point out all the bad things about one specific country simply because they're proud of themselves!

of course we should try to improve ourselves. but is it right to target one country and then gang up on it and neone who tries to defend it?

my point is quite simply that this thread doesn't seem to be doing nething positive. ppl here are just pointing out all the bad stuff that the U.S. is guilty of doing without providing solutions or making efforts in their lives of countering it. that's why this thread seems pointless to me.

[palm_w1]

Firstly let me point out I don't hate Americans, but I do have issues with ignorant people who try and justify genocides, is it too much for some of your co-nationalists to turn around and admit their regime is wrong? I am British and I condemn the British Government for its policies, I have no problem with being honest. It doesn't make me any less of a person to stand up and say i don't agree with the British Government. I don't stand up and try and justify my governments wrongs. For things like Jallianwale Bagh and Iraq i condemn them. I don't go and wish they would happen again and with increased fervour (like dropping more nukes on Japan). Yes the US has done a lot of good in the world, and i credit it for that, but it doesn't mean I have to keep silent about its negative policies.

And yes we should be aware of the crimes of other nations, but to be honest they are well documented already, but what i find is that most people are of a view that the US is a utopia for all people to live in, a model for the world. Life ain't that simple, by pointing out some of the USs' wrongs a few people may become a bit more wiser about the world, and especially their Govt (currently an extreme right wing regime led by a monkey). I bet most americans don't even know half the things there Govt has done because of a biased education system and media complicity. And besides i see nothing wrong in posting articles which carry the truth, and the more certain persons justify the USs' evil the more i will post. I do try and do something about the state of the world, one of the things is promoting awareness. I think one way to a more stable world is regime change in the US, and if educating people about US foreign policy is one way of helping achieve that so be it.

Let me reiterate i have no problem with the liberal USers, but i don't agree with those Users who promote fascist policies across the world. and rather than u guys getting pissed of with people posting the truth about your country, why don't u just learn from it and make some effort towards ensuring your nation never carries out these crimes again.

And yes i do point out the wrongs of the British Govt, not just 'US hatin' as u class it. If u want evidence go and see my website, i point out many wrongs of the British, as political commentary and sarcasm. (www.geocities.com/palm_w1 hasn't been updated in a while). All haters who want to hate upon those posting the truth go and post ur death threats on my guest book. Once again rather than getting pissed of try and learn from them. Also why do u feel angry at these topics being posted, if people point out my -ve's i will take them on board and contemplate upon them to try and become a better person for it. You don't have to close your eyes and pretend your Govt does nothing wrong to be an American. I really can't understand why people are angry. Except for perhaps the reincarnation of Hitler that we have posting. Nothing against u sukhi, i have many americano friends and all but 1 of them agree with my views.

Debate and educate

[palm_w1]

Bush tries to prevent his troops being accountable for war crimes, and bullies 3rd world countries into giving USers immunity

The International Criminal Court was set up to be able to try anyone in the world for war crimes carried out anywhere in the world, a massive step forward to making all people accountable and preventing rogue regimes from harbouring those guilty of war crimes. It was ratified by almost all countries, except for the regime in the US. They made the UN give their troops immunity from prosecution. Surprise surprise then the USers commit war crimes in Iraq, whoever was advising Bush obviously had good foresight, and it raises questions about how long ago Bush has been planning to attack Iraq.

Now that the immunity is about to end the USers have started a new dirty tactic. They are forcing poor countries to sign treaties guaranteeing that USers who carry out war crimes will not be deported to the Hague to be tried by the ICC, giving the USer war criminals freedom to travel to these countries. How is it making these countries sign these agreements, by threatening to stop aid and thus hold the poorer countries to random. dirtiest trick in the book.

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/americas/3834089.stm

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/americas/3035296.stm

http://uk.news.yahoo.com/040623/325/ewjiy.html

Rather more cynical seeing as the US administration is trying to block world justice efforts, is the news that Rumsfeld actually ordered the use of torture against suspects in Iraq and Guantanamo Bay. Could it be possible that the regime is trying to protect their own regime members from prosecution. It was ironic that rumsfeld was also the person who went and sold saddam weapons in the first place, and actually personally met the tyrant with smile and handshakes, knowing that saddam had used chemical weapons on civilians.

http://uk.news.yahoo.com/040623/323/ewhdi.html

[Sherni-E-Punjab]

** Has her fun reading Clinton's new book**

and awaits for palm_w1's new book -hopefully titled "America and how ______" ....

You talk about well documented....if you asked a normal person ...they wouldn't have a clue what the Death March was ...and obviously stuff is documented already ...the fact you know about the genocides against the natives..'cause you sure didn't live back then.

Anyways, I am out of this...If there is anything else, take it up personally!

and to Beast, its a freaken war ...and when - have innocent civilians not died?

and if you're only choice is "two evils" (as u mention) ..which one would you rather have the less or more??

anyways ill talk lata on MSN

***Proud to be American *********** heheheh

[Sherni-E-Punjab]

oh yeah plus i still wanta knowwww - wot is da ideal government & country TODAY THEN?

pssh wud love to move dere

[Sukhi]

palm_w1, i for one think that debating and being educated on current affairs is very important. but i don't think that the aggression shown in this thread was necessary. and it's a great thing that you do stand up and point out the flaws in ur own country and whatnot. but creating a thread specifically on the U.S. to show that it isn't a utopia is... well... it's just pointless. there are tons of other threads in this forum showing the darker side of the States. it seems to me that ur just out to show the world that the U.S. is bad. like u said, things aren't that simple.

i have nothing more to say on my stance. i just felt that the negativity was a little rude, and i said so. i hope u don't take offence to it.

[guv]

palm, according to my intelligence agencies (voted 3rd worst in the world... after british & american agencies), starting this thread has made the president of the united states issue a "bushwa" against u!! :shock:

intelligence suggests that likely chain of events that will follow will be:

1. american intelligence (?) agencies will find a link between u & al qaeda.

they have a lot of experience at finding links & have honed this ability to exceptional levels, as shown below.

2. they will then suddenly "discover" that u have wmd... wobbly musical didgeridoos & are a threat to the security of the world as they see it.

3. now that they have overwhelming evidence of your machiavellian plans, they have the last thing they needed before facilitating an attack... a reason.

4. air strikes will proceed to destroy every building within a fifty mile radius... all except the one thing they were aiming for... your house. but don't worry, all the civilians that died were probably in cahoots with u... & if not, oh well... they were collateral damage. when people around the world begin to march & protest at the inhumanity of what happened, a voice of reason is there to calm them all down.

5. bush will claim to have eliminated another threat to the free & democratic world... even though u'll still be alive & hiding in the last place they would think to look... in your mum's house.

all information is guaranteed at least 5% correct... but probably less. make future decisions based on this intelligence at your own risk. the git (guv intelligence taskforce) accepts no responsibility for any actions or inactions taken as a result of the information provided.

thank you. have a nice day. 8)

[Beast]

oh yeah plus i still wanta knowwww - wot is da ideal government & country TODAY THEN?

pssh wud love to move dere

lol, i'm sure I answered this before Rupy.

I welcome criticism of all governments, because it is this criticism that helps keep the government in check. Any decision that any government makes should be scrutinised closely and assessed for its impact. The UK government is not perfect, no government is - just like no person is perfect. But as humans, surely we should aim to get as close to perfect as possible? And surely all governments should do the same.

[palm_w1]

hey i am having a bar-b-q on the burning rubble of my local infant school, they bombed it with a stealth. every1 feel free to join me.

[Jamuka]

So you're suggesting that only the families of victims are allowed to comment on the atrocities caused by any onenation? So why do you comment on Israel? So why do you defend USA?

Now you're putting words into my mouth, where did I say such a thing? There is a difference between commenting and taking cheap shots and I'm sure old enough to know the difference.

My 'ignorance' was to highlight a contradiction in what YOU wrote.

What is the 'contradiction'?

I didn't make myself judge of your actions. I asked you to judge your own actions using the tenets and principles of the Sikh faith as taught by our Gurus.

It you really meant that, you would have not wrote that baloney about what our Gurus would or would have not acted in such a capacity. If you truly believe that I am my own judge, you have not bothered bringing religion into this topic. The only reason you did that was becasue you are pompous enough to believe that what YOU believe tantamounts to what the GURUS believe. Get off your high horse buddy, you are no Guru nor are you some kinda expert to know how our Gurus would have reacted in such a situation.

The problem is, the US only sees these tin pot dictators when they pose a threat to America itself. Then, under the pretence of global security, the US attempts to eradicate said dictator.

I don't believe it, I'm actually agreeing with you! BUT does that mean the US is now a terrorists state? Is the US even minutely comparable to these tin pot dictators? The US is far from perfect but it is definitely not even minutely comparable to these tin pot dictatorships and that is a fact.

Again, you say only families of victims should be able to comment on atrocities yet you freely talk about Palestinians and Israelites yourself.

Yours were not comments, they were downright slander. YYou're finding cheap shots to take at the US in order to support your looney belief that the US is a terrorist state. I guess all those American Sikhs like Rupy must be gun wielding terrorist then.

Points to note:

I made no comparison between US Govt and our Gurus. Don't try and twist this quote to your own ends. My point was to Bambookat about slaughter of humans and how we Sikhs understand this because of our own history.

I don't believe you're trying to make a 180 degree U turn. Hold on a sec buddy, lets reprint what you said again.

Are you justifying the deaths of 150,000 civilians because 20,000 soldiers (American and Philipino) were killed by the evil Japanese regime?

Nobody doubts these things, and in fact, we as Sikhs have more insight into massacres and slaughter than most. In our history, did Guru Gobind Singh Ji massacre innocent civilians because of Mughal tyranny?

When women were captured and raped, did Sikhs retaliate in kind? No!! Our ancestors (whatever our background) were role models on how we should behave in these situations!

I don't know and I could be wrong for English is my second language but by critisizing the actions of the US regarding the death of civilians and in the same paragraph you talk about how the Gurus acted in the a similar capacity, IS THAT NOT A COMPARISON???????? Are you nuts or do I have a bad comprehension of the English language???

The second example I gave (about womem being raped) was a hukam given by (I think) the Jathedar of the Budha Dal at a point in history after Guru Gobind Singh. If it really urgent I will get you the full details of the incident (unless someone here knows).

You cannot compare the Gurus to the likes of General MacArthur or any US President, that is an insult. Now you're insulting our Gurus to substantiate your points.

and here's another thing. if ppl are gonna point out the bad things the states have done, why can't we point out the bad stuff that the Brits have done, or the Germans, the Spanish, the French or even the Canadians?

Maybe I should start a thread on the impact of British colonialism and it's impact on all the colonies. If it was not for the Brits, the Sikhs would be having their country in Punjab today. Yeah Beast, way to go!! What a great Sikh you are!!

But to me the problem kinda is that Americans refuse to see themselves as anything less than the world's saviours, they have to realise that they ain't no saints in this world here, they've got to realise that what their actions are are wrong, and that they should demand their government to stop this bs, and work things differently....

And who made you judge? When were you elected? What about Canada, is it's history squeky clean? Care to tell us what Canadian history and how Canada came about?

That's what needs to be done.....Americans need to wake up and smell the coffee...

Exactly what does America has to 'wake up' from?

lol, sorry if its seems like I'm a hater Sukhi - to set the record straight I don't hate the US people, I just think that the US government policicies leave a lot to be desired. (eg Kyoto Protocol)

Hey Beast, why don't you enlighten us on the history of Britain? Whose past is worse, the US or the UK? Please tell us of how many people and nations that were under British colonial rule and how many millions dies and suffered under their rule. Please enlighten us all.

[Beast]

None of your family members or friends were killed by the Japs in the 2nd world war so you take cheap pot shots at the US with absolutely no inclination of what you're talking about

[Jamuka]

Ok Beast I am not going to go through your posts otherwise we will be going in circles. I say let everybody here judge for themselves. Till then I hope your contention that the US is a state of terror brings you happiness and fullfillment.

[Beast]

Cool