sexy_singh Posted June 23, 2004 Report Share Posted June 23, 2004 hi guys i've got a bit of a problem. i've recently come to know that my gurdwara in my home town has been undergoing some reforms under the persistence of a vocal minority and it is no longer the way it used to be. im told that the new policy is to to remove completely the role of any non kesh dhari sikhs. this is suprising to me because i never expected this to happen since we have a small community and we usually get along despite our differences in appearance. im also saddened to know that instead of building a community of love and tolerance it is becoming one of arrogance and elitism. i think this is contrary to the sikhi spirit. as ive mentioned elsewhere on this forum, i feel that one shouldnt be demand others to change their lives wrt to external religious mattters so that they may be acceptable. this pains me very much. i fear all it will do is drive good people away. and its not necessary in any way. after all if these uber religious folk think they need to set an example or enforce their way then they shuold do it elsewhere. instead of destroying whatever community dynamic already exists. this is a good gurdwara with happy people who do seva, participate in kirtan, etc. there is a good proportion of kesh dhari people. probably a majority. in fact i think they might have even gone as far allowing only amrithdaris to do things like kirtan and paht and so on. i will be returning back home soon and i will express my disapointment at these changes. have any other people experienced this sort of thing before? what is the best way to reverse it? please note im not advocating people shouldnt try to be gurmukhs. everyone should strive to reach their own spirtual home as best as they can. i also admire the gurmukhs etc. iam all for sikhi. i think sikhi should be personal and private. between a sikh and guru. im against these public displays of elitism where religion becomes something to divide and rate people in a community. (i love sikhi and i love life - how do i save my gurdwara!) 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Morpheous Posted June 23, 2004 Report Share Posted June 23, 2004 im told that the new policy is to to remove completely the role of any non kesh dhari sikhs. Ask them is it fair to take money of 'non kesdhari sikhs' and then not let them run the gurudwara? Its stupid and i recognise your level of concern, ill be honest with you, from personal experience they are a very stubborn bunch! how could your gurudawara be saved ? Do ardaas to Akaal - then go back there and kick ass(yes 1 person can make a difference) Gurfateh Harpreet 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sukhsingh Posted June 23, 2004 Report Share Posted June 23, 2004 wrong harpreet. only guru valey sikhs should run the gurdrawa. infact! sri akaal takht sahib made a hukamnaama that says ONLY KESHDHARI SIKHS CAN RUN THE GURDRAWA. "sexy" "singh", your gurdrawa is just following marayda. i salute them! 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jassa Posted June 23, 2004 Report Share Posted June 23, 2004 if a 'sikh' without kesh went to try and do path or kirtan at Sri Harmandir Sahib, Amritsar would they allow him....NO!! It is Akal Takht Maryada... and i am a firm believer that paath from Guru Maharaj, in a Gurdwara should only be done from Amritdhari sikhs. This is per Akal Takht Maryada... Also what Gurdwara Sahib is this??In what City and country? 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hari Posted June 23, 2004 Report Share Posted June 23, 2004 That person who remembers their Creator, be they from any walk of life, that body is a Gurdwara, it is Harimandir. You can not in reality lose your Gurdwara.Is a brick building the only Gurdwara? A Guru vala Sikh isn't neccesarily someone who has uncut hair, wears a Patiala style turban etc. There are very, very few Sikh out there who are truely Amrit-dhari.The rest are pakhandi, they really are. I suggest sexy singh, that all those who aren't allowed to have a say in the running of the Gurdwara to boycott the Gurdwara.Going to a brick building which has no actual Sadh Sangat in it (Sadh Sangat is always tolerant and does not proselytize) means you could be wasting your time going there. Forget them, and follow Satguru Nanak Nirankar. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jassa Posted June 23, 2004 Report Share Posted June 23, 2004 true that many amritdharis are pakhandee... but still this does not take away from the akal takht maryada. they are the current authority on sikhi. what they say goes. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sukhsingh Posted June 23, 2004 Report Share Posted June 23, 2004 true say jassa. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hari Posted June 23, 2004 Report Share Posted June 23, 2004 true that many amritdharis are pakhandee... but still this does not take away from the akal takht maryada. they are the current authority on sikhi. what they say goes. I do not acknowledge in any way the authority of the heretical SGPC.The SGPC is not an authority on Sikhi. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted June 23, 2004 Report Share Posted June 23, 2004 tru say hari,i think it loooks more out of place if non kes dhari people run the Gurdwara, but i dnt see ne thing wrong wid it, but if they wanted to run a Gurdwara, they would have luv for Guru. thus be willing to keep wa Vaheguru has given them, thus them being kes dhari, i herd some were bk in the day b4 the british came only Amrit dhari were classed as sikh, tru/ false, ne one 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
guv Posted June 24, 2004 Report Share Posted June 24, 2004 i completely agree with hari... i also do not acknowledge the sgpc as any kind of authority on sikhi, & as such to not accept the modern day rehat maryada as a definitive set of rules & regulations that every sikh has to follow. jassa & sukhsingh... do u think it is right for gurdwarey to accept money from non-keshdharis? 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sexy_singh Posted June 24, 2004 Author Report Share Posted June 24, 2004 appreciate teh replies guys. harpreet hmm, i'll think over teh money thing - seems like a petty thing to raise! but i see your point. i fully intend to go back and attempt changing their minds. sukhsingh apart from the hukamnama is there any other reason why you feel that only keshdari ppl can run stuff? if only guru valey sikhs should run gurdwara then how come there are so many gurdwaras out there and so few guru valey sikhs? and furthermore, your idea of a guru vala sikh seems to be a kesh dhari person without any other qualities. jassa why should paath only be done by amritdharis? what is the reasoning behind this. surely what is important is that it is done correctly and faithfully. i dont see the relavance of location in the discussion. hari i like your thoughts. sure you might say its just a brick building but this building comes with a history and a community. the latter is what im concerned about the most. Sadh Sangat is always tolerant and does not proselytize nice. i wish to make this case to them. any help will be much appreciated! at this point i dont want to give up - without even trying! but if reasoning doesnt convince them then there doesnt seem to be any other decent way to go. for all those advocating following the edicts of sgpc - can i inquire for the basis for these wrt to gurdwaras. akali sodhi for your information, non kesh daris werent running the gurdwara exclusively. it was a good mix of both. and it might make some of you happier - a majority of kesh daris. isnt it sufficient to just want to do seva for one to be a member of a gurdwara committee (for the lack of a better word)? i also find my self distancing myself from sgpc because of these rulings that seem to defy the basic principle of inclusiveness. please explain. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sexy_singh Posted June 24, 2004 Author Report Share Posted June 24, 2004 also as i mentioned in my first post this is a small community and with that you'll find that members of the sangat would participate directly in kirtan for example. so you'll find kids working hard and preparing a shabad or two, various tabla players and so on. i liked the way roles were shared within the community. everyone had a chance to get involved. now, sadly, this isnt the case. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jassa Posted June 24, 2004 Report Share Posted June 24, 2004 i asked which gurdwara sahib this is.... there should be no problem with that... maybe myself and other members may wish to ask the gurdwara sahib,,, if someone would like to know the location whats the problem. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sexy_singh Posted June 24, 2004 Author Report Share Posted June 24, 2004 yuo seem to be saying i made the whole thign up. i resent your accusation. you have a us (people who think exactly the way you do) vs the enemy (anyone else) mindset. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jassa Posted June 24, 2004 Report Share Posted June 24, 2004 it is your paap to go against the akal takht not mine. They are the supreme body for the sikhs. anyomne may do paath in their own free time but i maintain that paath on Gur Maharaj da saroop at a gurdwara may only be done by an amritdhari person. This is maryada. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sexy_singh Posted June 24, 2004 Author Report Share Posted June 24, 2004 so whats a gurdwara then? 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sexy_singh Posted June 24, 2004 Author Report Share Posted June 24, 2004 i have to go do a three hour exam now. i'll be interested in reading your response, i expect you to tell me something to do with sgpc though 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jassa Posted June 24, 2004 Report Share Posted June 24, 2004 no, gurdwaras existed before the sgpc... personally i dont even think this gurdwara your talking about even exists... i think your simply making a story to put across your view and put across your warped views. i hope im wrong and if i am i would like to speak to the gurdwara sahib involved. also maybe members like hari would like to contact them since he has shown such a strong disagreement. so which gurdwara sahib isit? 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sexy_singh Posted June 24, 2004 Author Report Share Posted June 24, 2004 is it so hard to believe that there are more people like you that are convinced they must "guide" everyone else in their religious life? if you really are interested in the gurdwara you can private message me and ask. i'll be happy to give the details to anyone else who asks too.. why YOU wish to know this i am not sure. are you going to go congratulate them? 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Beast Posted June 24, 2004 Report Share Posted June 24, 2004 personally i dont even think this gurdwara your talking about even exists... i think your simply making a story to put across your view and put across your warped views. Do you have a personal vendetta against sexy_singh? The fact that he hasn't publicly named the Gurdwaa is a complete non-issue, it has no bearing on the facts. And tell me, what criteria must a post have for you to 'believe' it? If sexy_singh's views are so warped then they should be easy to refute. Guru Nanak's message was for everyone - I find it amusing when people like you say only Amritdharis are allowed to have a monopoly on it. And no, I really don't care what the SGPC says (if you love the SGPC so much why have you not defended their dispicable actions in the thread "Destruction of Sikh Heritage"). Anyway, lay off sexy_singh - your personal vendetta is misdirecting this thread against the REAL issues at stake here. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hari Posted June 24, 2004 Report Share Posted June 24, 2004 it is your paap to go against the akal takht not mine. They are the supreme body for the sikhs. anyomne may do paath in their own free time but i maintain that paath on Gur Maharaj da saroop at a gurdwara may only be done by an amritdhari person. This is maryada. The supreme body of Sikh is Satguru Nanak Nirankar, the God of gods, Lord and Master of Maya.The SGPC do not in any way represent Satguru Nanak, they are heretics.The SGPC are malechh.You have malechh issuing edicts to Satguru Nanak's Sikh from Shri Akal Takht.This is a completely undesirable situation. Mahakaal will take care of the SGPC. One more thing Jassa, haven't you thought that the reason why sexy singh doesn't want to name the Gurdwara Sahib is to respect the privacy of the Gurdwara and those who run it? Akaaaal!!! 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hari Posted June 24, 2004 Report Share Posted June 24, 2004 And Jassa, it's not good to hold personal grudges for no good reason against human beings you don't know.Relax. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jassa Posted June 24, 2004 Report Share Posted June 24, 2004 I have no personal vendetta against anyone. I do however have differences in opinion. Just as some of you have. Hari you call them heretical, i call you heretical for not accepting them as the leaders of the panth..This institution was started by Guru Ji himself. I dont know much abouit sikh heritage therefore why comment on something I dont know. You guys are all just got your kacherreh in a twist because Akal Takht is no longer controlled by Buddha Dal...You guys always complain that people believe amritdharis have monopoly...well how bout Buddha Dal...They want monopoly by saying they are the rightful heirs. Accept it...Budha Dal are not in charge. So please try to reallign into the panth and stop playing the rebel without a cause. SGPC have surely made mistakes, as does anyone...but they are with good intentions. That is why nearly all panthic institutions accept their command. Even Santa Singh, who git his tankha from an institution that apparently he does not accept. Seems a bit off to me! 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SAadmin Posted June 24, 2004 Report Share Posted June 24, 2004 Hari you call them heretical, i call you heretical for not accepting them as the leaders of the panth..This institution was started by Guru Ji himself. Excuse me but Hari called SGPC [Man-Made Institution] Heretic *NOT* Akaaal Takth! 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jassa Posted June 24, 2004 Report Share Posted June 24, 2004 Jassa wrote: true that many amritdharis are pakhandee... but still this does not take away from the akal takht maryada. they are the current authority on sikhi. what they say goes. Hari Said I do not acknowledge in any way the authority of the heretical SGPC.The SGPC is not an authority on Sikhi. I made no mention of SGPC...only the Akaal Takht....therefore i can only assume his accusations to the SGPC are directed to the Akaal YTakht.. Before you spring to his defence n3o read what he said. You will find that he was infact talking about the Akaal Takht. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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