tableji Posted November 25, 2004 Report Share Posted November 25, 2004 saabath soorath 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Sardar Moderator Singh Posted November 25, 2004 Report Share Posted November 25, 2004 tableji, please provide the full shabd for reference and also do a search on this site for a thread in which that shabd has been analysed and discussed in full to avoid a repetition of this discussion. Thanks, SMS 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tableji Posted November 25, 2004 Report Share Posted November 25, 2004 http://www.sikhitothemax.com/page.asp?ShabadID=3795 naapaak paak kar hadhoor hadheesaa saabath soorath dhasathaar siraa saabath means unaltered soorath means body 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted November 25, 2004 Report Share Posted November 25, 2004 http://www.sikhitothemax.com/page.asp?ShabadID=3795 naapaak paak kar hadhoor hadheesaa saabath soorath dhasathaar siraa saabath means unaltered soorath means body This shabad is used by Akjers to support keski on women.....what a misinterpertation :roll: 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sikh_fauge Posted November 25, 2004 Report Share Posted November 25, 2004 urmmmm guru was talking to a muslim right? didnt muslims wear turbans back in them days? p.s whas a turban got to do with kesh?!! 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Amrikingh Posted November 25, 2004 Report Share Posted November 25, 2004 whats the point of a turban when you aint got da kesh for it, lol, and tableji, that line you mentined isnt the same as the one on sikhi to da max inless you chose da wrong link or somethin 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sikh_fauge Posted November 25, 2004 Report Share Posted November 25, 2004 turbans..no kesh..urmm why dnt u ask the countless non sikhs who wear them!! 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Amrikingh Posted November 25, 2004 Report Share Posted November 25, 2004 cant see any non sikhs at this present time who are wearing turbans veer ji, no one in site 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sikh_fauge Posted November 25, 2004 Report Share Posted November 25, 2004 dude, if your being serious, then sachi..read some books! or get off your computer lol 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Beast Posted November 25, 2004 Report Share Posted November 25, 2004 whats the point of a turban when you aint got da kesh for it, lol, and tableji, that line you mentined isnt the same as the one on sikhi to da max inless you chose da wrong link or somethin I always assumed that many people wore turbans, whether they had short hari or not. It was a sign of nobility. Even if we judge it by today's standards where it's mainly Sikhs who wear turban, we still have ppl bin laden and his cronies who continue to wear turbans but don't have long hair. Therefore would have to agree with Sikh Fauge 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sikh_fauge Posted November 25, 2004 Report Share Posted November 25, 2004 i jst realised something beast..im catching up with ur posts muhuhahahahaha 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted November 25, 2004 Report Share Posted November 25, 2004 Ok lets stick to the topic here. Orginal topic - "is cutting hair mentioned in the SGGSJ " ? Please use specific quotes from Gurbani - If cutting hairs mentioned or not? 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sikh_fauge Posted November 25, 2004 Report Share Posted November 25, 2004 Oops sorry neo. Is it mentioned..not as far as im aware. If it were, one of the scholars woulda jumped in by now and made me look stupid 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gupy Posted November 25, 2004 Report Share Posted November 25, 2004 So far, NO ONE has been able to show that the Adi Granth explicitly forbids the cutting of hair. Please reply to the above only. Can anyone contraict this point alone, regardless of any other opinion they have. And to this note can anyone show that ANY OF THE 5 k's are absolutely essential to being a sikh of the Guru (the Guru being the Adi Granth) Thanks 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Infernal Monk Posted November 25, 2004 Report Share Posted November 25, 2004 I'm sorry, I haven't read this entire post, and don't feel like it right now...but what is it with everyone to find proof in the SGGS of stuff...I mean the way I see it is that what is said by SGGS is just as important as Guru Gobind Singh ji (Seeing as they are both our gurus). As far as I know the 5 k's were brought about by Guru Gobind Singh for the Khalsa. Also I always felt that anyone could be Sikh, ie a disciple, regardless of religion. I don't understand why people want to institutionalize Sikhi so much, isn't that what the Khalsa was? Forgive me if I have said anything wrong, feel free to correct me. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tableji Posted November 26, 2004 Report Share Posted November 26, 2004 im sorry bt sabat soorath means unaltered body...plus ggsji doesnt not tell u to cut ur hair anywhere either 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Amrikingh Posted November 26, 2004 Report Share Posted November 26, 2004 can someone please make it clear if cutting hair is right or wrong in Sikhi, because its certain that alot of sikhs reading this post will be in doubt in mind all day , all week, even for years.... whether hair should be kept or not because to my knowledge, I am unsure aswell, the thing is you don't know who to believe because everyone tries to turn the truth around in their own ways, the way they like it, which is really sick and plus many of us cant read bani, truthfully, how many of you alot can??? how many of you lot plus myself can read the Sri Guru Granth Sahib Ji, because ive noticed the only way to find the truth is learn gurmukhi, punjabi etc... and learn of the Sri Guru Granth Sahib itself, its the BEST TEACHER and all i can say is in many posts where someone tries to explain something every single person comes out with 20 explanations but still there is no proper explanation and half of the lines from the gurbani, people misinterpretate it, and loads sikhs even more confused...........theres this corruption element everywhere u go aswell it's so frustrating, im really really fed up it really deos my head in 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gupy Posted November 26, 2004 Report Share Posted November 26, 2004 The above posts are good, but still avoid answering the question. And in response to Infernal Monks post, you made an assunption there..... which is the most likely cause of the mass confusion. My question is not related solely to Khalsa, but to someone who is 'sikh' (simplest definition being someone who acknowledges the Adi Granth for arguments sake), so even if you can be proved correct, it still doesn't answer the question. Thank you 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tableji Posted November 28, 2004 Report Share Posted November 28, 2004 guru granth sahib ji is for sikhs...nothin is irrelevant....it is all gurujis hukam, so no part of it can be ignored 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
g_singh Posted November 28, 2004 Report Share Posted November 28, 2004 It was Guru Gobind Singh Jis Hukam that we belive in Guru Granth Sahib Ji as Guru, after they left their physical body. It was also Guru Gobind Singh Jis Hukam to keep the 5 K's and to live as a Khalsa, to his Sikhs. Guru Ji appointed Guru Granth Sahib Ji as Guru. People are willing to accept and follow this. But the same Guru also told us to keep the 5 K's, but people keep questioning this? It doesnt make sense, how can you follow one important message of Guru Ji and totally neglect the other?? Hence a Sikh should follow or at a minimal try to follow all of their Guru Ji' hukam. All that call themselves Sikh should always be working towards making themselves in a spiritual and physical state by which they are working towards achieving Khalsa initiation. You cant pick and choose what you like and what you dont like out of the teachings of Guru Sahib! 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Infernal Monk Posted November 28, 2004 Report Share Posted November 28, 2004 It was Guru Gobind Singh Jis Hukam that we belive in Guru Granth Sahib Ji as Guru, after they left their physical body. It was also Guru Gobind Singh Jis Hukam to keep the 5 K's and to live as a Khalsa, to his Sikhs. Guru Ji appointed Guru Granth Sahib Ji as Guru. People are willing to accept and follow this. But the same Guru also told us to keep the 5 K's, but people keep questioning this? It doesnt make sense, how can you follow one important message of Guru Ji and totally neglect the other?? Hence a Sikh should follow or at a minimal try to follow all of their Guru Ji' hukam. All that call themselves Sikh should always be working towards making themselves in a spiritual and physical state by which they are working towards achieving Khalsa initiation. You cant pick and choose what you like and what you dont like out of the teachings of Guru Sahib! Very well said. Exactly what I wanted to say, but I didn't quite say it correctly, lol. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SikhWannaBe Posted November 28, 2004 Report Share Posted November 28, 2004 My comments are my first in this forum and may in fact be a little off topic but I believe still relevant. Why would someone want to know the answer to whether cutting of the hair is explicitly denied in the holy book? I believe it stems from the fact that to keep one's hair outside of the Punjab involves countless sacrifices that were not considered by Guru Gobind Singh. How is Sikhism going to grow when it encompasses rituals that can be likened to the knocking on doors by Jehovah's witnesses or the wearing of the kipa by orthodox Jews. Our faith has the capacity to reach many but is stagnated by the 5Ks and any other rituals that the elders try to engrain in what was a scientific and forward thinking faith. As you may have guessed I do not keep my hair but I have many friends who do. Some of these friends are devout and I bow to their committment to their ideals but then on the other hand I have encountered many that maintaint the 5ks but are foul humans that do nothing but give the faith a negative image. My point being that keeping of the hair will not make one more or less devout. It is your mind that must be pure. So for those of you that think I am less devout for cutting my hair please realize the desctructive nature of your comments. Guru Nanak wished for an inclusive faith, we have created a different animal entirely. Charn Gill 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gupy Posted November 28, 2004 Report Share Posted November 28, 2004 Again i think your making implicit assumptions. You maybe right on what you say about Guru Gobind Singh giving Hukum to see Guru as the Granth, and i'll even for now let you have the part about 5 K's. But am i NOT a sikh if i have followed the Adi Granth? If so, then 5 K's DO NOT explicitly come into it, in particular hair cutting. Pleae also refer to the post about 5K's effect on Sikhism. My overall question is this, answer on this thread or the other : HOW DO MODERN DAY SIKHS JUSTIFY THE APPARENT CONTRADICTION BETWEEN THE ADI GRANTH TEACHING FOCUSED SOLELY ON MIND AND SOLE. AND THE INSISTANCE ON EXTERNAL 'REHIT' AS A MANDATORY PART OF SIKH LIFE???? 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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