Sant Baba Gurbachan Singh Ji and The Naamdhari's

[karmjeet]

Sant Baba Gurbachan Singh Ji and The Naamdhari's

One time, 108 Bhram Giani Mahpursh Sant Baba Gurbachan Singh Ji Khalsa and the entire Jatha where staying at Sachkhand Sri Hajoor Sahib. At the same time a large Naamdhari Jatha had reserved rooms at Gurdhwara Sahib not knowing that Mahpursh and Jatha where also staying there.

The Naamdhari's where given stage time, and did katha and many members of the jatha where taken back by the preechar done. During Ardaas, premi's who where doing Joryaan di Sevaa, ran away as they did not want to hear the blamsemphous ardaas of the Naamdhari's, who did not beleive in Sahib Sri Guru Granth Sahib Ji as the jag-di-jot of Sahib Sri Guru Gobind Singh Sahib Ji.

The premi's quickly ran over and sat with Mahpursh. No one dared to say a word to mahpursh Baba Gurbachan Singh Ji, out of fear, as any talk outside of gurbani was not tolerated, and Mahpursh where always in a state of doing, or listening to Gurbani and no one would dare interupt it. The Singhs all sat with mahpursh wondering what should be done, and how the Naamdhari's should be dealt with.

Later in the evening diwan Sant Mahpursh Bhram Giani Sant Baba Gurbachan Singh Ji Khalsa, sat on stage and did Katha. Just by listening to the Katha the Naamdhari's realized who Mahpursh where (A true Sikh of Sahib Sri Guru Gobind Singh Ji). The Katha hit deep down and the unfatmoable arth of Sahib Sri Guru Granth Sahib Ji stung at the hearts of the Naamdhari's. Without wasting any time they all got there stuff together and ran away from Sri Hajoor Sahib Ji.

Morale:

Many times we see parkhandhi babbay running prechaar against Sahib Sri Guru Granth Sahib Ji. Quickly we are triggered to being angry and becoming hot headed. In this day and age espeically countless numbers of people are doing beadbi of Maharaaj and not conforming to parataan Rehat. By becoming angry and hot headed we are all causing fire, and likewise getting burned. Sahib Sri Guru Granth Sahib Ji is above all, they are untouchable and above all, it is no doubt our duty as the sons and daughters of Sahib Sri Guru Granth Sahib ji to have shardaa and respect towards Maharaaj, however acting out and acting rash is of no use to anyone.

The real way to act, should be to simply get on stage and do prechaar and Gurbani itself will teach and sting at the hearts of those doing wrong doings. Full faith in Gurbani should always be held. As Gurbani itself is above all, who are we to protect it? We can only simply ask for Gurbani to protect us. Many times we feel we need to protect Gurbani from evil mahaants, but just as children who get angry at someone teasing our parents, we fail to realize that this calling of names etc, is only bringing the other person down and weighing down on there own karm.

---

Sakhi typed as remembered, from the katha narration of Baba Charn Singh (Bhagat Ji).

http://gursikhijeevan.com/community/phorum...?f=4&i=111&t=11

[Guest]

Was there any Namdhari guru's present in that room or just namdhari jatha?

Please let us know.

[fatehsingh]

I'm amazed that even after reading such a dumb post that has no head or tail, the moderators have allowed this post, which is openly insulting Namdharis on this web forum that on the first page speaks so much of 'tolerance this tolerance that'.

Namdharis don't respect the Granth Sahib? Get a life!

Max Arthur Macauliffe's The Sikh Religion Vol.6 Page 331

After the completion of the morning and evening obligatory divine services and of the uninterrupted reading or chanting of the Granth Sahib the Sikhs repeat a prayer or supplication called-

ARDAS, which may now suitably end our presentation of the Lives and writings, of the ten Gurus

SRI WAHGURU JI KI FATAH ! Having first remembered the Sword meditate on Guru Nanak Then on Guru Angad, Amar Das, and Ram Das; may they assist us Remember Arjan, Har Gobind, and the holy Har Rai; Meditate on the holy Har Krishan, a sight of whom dispelled all sorrow. Remember Teg Bahadur, and the nine treasures shall come hastening to your homes. Ye holy Gurus, everywhere assist us. May the tenth king, the holy Guru Gobind Siugh, every where assist us. God Himself knoweth, He Himself acteth; it Is He adjusteth. Standing in His presence, Nanak, make supplication. Sikhs of the true Immortal God, turn your to the teachings of the Granth Sahib and the deeds ot Khalsa; utter Wahguru I Meditating on the Deathless One, endowed with all power compassionate, and just, utter Wahguru Meditating on the deeds of those who worshipped Name, plied the sword, ate and distributed their food companionship, and overlooked others faults, 0 Khalsa utter Wahguru! 0 Deathless Creator, illimitable, this creature forgetting Thy name is so attached to worldly goods, that he hath forgotten the Real Thing. Without Thy supreme mercy how shall we cross the ocean of the world? 0 great lust, wrath, greed, worldly love, jealousy, and other passions greatly trouble our minds, but on coming towards Thee worldly maladies and afflictions are healed and dispelled: Show us such favour that we may by word and deed be Thine, and that in all things we may obtain assistance and support. Grant to Thy Sikhs the gift of Sikhism, the gift of Guru's instruction, the gift of faith, the gift of in Thee, and the gift of reading and understanding the Granth Sahib. May the Sikh choirs, mansions, and banners ever Victory to the faith! May the minds of the Sikhs be humble but their intellects exalted! Utter Wahguru! Wahguru!Wahguru !! We offer this Ardas in Thy presence and at Thy lotus feet. Pardon our errors an4 mistakes. May all Sikhs read and hear the Gurus' hymns be profited! Through Nanak, may Thy name, 0 God, be exa1ted, And all prosper by Thy grace! Sri Wahguru ji ka Khalsa! Sri Wahguru ji ki Fatah

Whose Ardas is wrong now? If you don't know what you're talking about, don't put your mouth where others' feet are.

Fateh Singh

[mehtab]

waheguru ji ka khalsa waheguru ji ki fateh

karmjeet veerjee, amazing post!

love can work wonders!

fatehsingh veerjee, anyone who disrespects SRI GURU GRANTH SAHIB JEE, what kind of tolerance are we as Sikhs expected to show them? Yes in a way you are right that as a forum this may seem not all that right, but then again we are not stopping any naamdharis to come here and refute whats been said, are we? If that was done, then it could have been pointed out as intolerance. This is just a sakhi telling us that the love of a true Khalsa for Guruji is enough to scare off anyone who doesn't respect Guruji, and that too without using any force at all. Lets appreciate that amazing love!!

bhul chuk maaf

waheguru ji ka khalsa waheguru ji ki fateh

[fatehsingh]

Mehtab Singh,

Who disrespects the Aad Sri Guru Granth Sahib? You, like most non-Namdharis don't even have a clue what the Granth Sahibs mean to us. While you all go around singing Gurbani in filmi tunes and printing Granth Sahibs with ten thousand errors in each Volume and doing 'saskaar' of old invaluable Priceless Birs of Sri Aad Granth Sahib, it is the Namdharis who have kept the tradition of singing in true Ragas and the correct pronunciation alive.

Yeah amazing 'love'. If there was so much 'love', shouldn't it have made the Namdharis 'love' the non-Namdhari path back and join them? Let's not be stupid.

And what do you want me to 'refute'? This so called 'sakhi' doesn't even name who the Namdhari Singhs were, let alone how do I know it even took place? That is the only problem I have with it, it's baseless propaganda. What if the Namdhari Singhs were about to leave anyway on that day? What if instead of 'showing love', Baba Gurbachan Singh had 'insulted' or 'threatened' them? I don't see why any Namdhari Singh would leave the Gurdwara Sach Khand Hazoor Sahib because someone 'loves' the Granth Sahibs. Doesn't even make any sense. Plenty of Namdhari Singhs in the past, and I can actually name them, unlike this dubious Sakhi, have stayed and served at the Gurdwara Sach Khand Sri Hazoor Sahib.

Fateh Singh

[mehtab]

hmmm...I see where you coming from now :D

Who disrespects the Aad Sri Guru Granth Sahib? You, like most non-Namdharis don't even have a clue what the Granth Sahibs mean to us.

well enlighten me then! :idea:

While you all go around singing Gurbani in filmi tunes and printing Granth Sahibs with ten thousand errors in each Volume and doing 'saskaar' of old invaluable Priceless Birs of Sri Aad Granth Sahib, it is the Namdharis who have kept the tradition of singing in true Ragas and the correct pronunciation alive.

yes I am aware of that, and well done. By the way there have been Muslim musicians who played tabla in the Gurdwaras before 1947, does that make them Sikhs?

Yeah amazing 'love'. If there was so much 'love', shouldn't it have made the Namdharis 'love' the non-Namdhari path back and join them?

that be great if naamdharis start regarding SRI GURU GRANTH SAHIB as their Guru! awesome!

Let's not be stupid.

agreed

And what do you want me to 'refute'? This so called 'sakhi' doesn't even name who the Namdhari Singhs were, let alone how do I know it even took place?

well then refute it by all means, you haven't done that except call it false.

That is the only problem I have with it, it's baseless propaganda. What if the Namdhari Singhs were about to leave anyway on that day? What if instead of 'showing love', Baba Gurbachan Singh had 'insulted' or 'threatened' them?

then they would leave for sure.

I don't see why any Namdhari Singh would leave the Gurdwara Sach Khand Hazoor Sahib because someone 'loves' the Granth Sahibs. Doesn't even make any sense. Plenty of Namdhari Singhs in the past, and I can actually name them, unlike this dubious Sakhi, have stayed and served at the Gurdwara Sach Khand Sri Hazoor Sahib.

I am glad to know that as well.

anything else you might wanna add?

Also, be careful how you use your words. I (Mehtab Singh) have not gone around singing Gurbani in filmi tunes and printing Granth Sahibs with ten thousand errors in each Volume and doing 'saskaar' of old invaluable Priceless Birs of Sri Aad Granth Sahib. I have not sounded rude and/or offensive in my tone even though you have a differing opinion from mine, and if you are sane and rational, the same is expected from you.

[fatehsingh]

I don't have time for this childish chatter. I'm not here to spoon feed anyone. This thread is baseless and hatefilled propaganda that is counter-productive is all I'm going to say.

If anyone wants to know about the role of the Sri Granth Sahibs in the Namdhari Panth please visit this link:

http://www.sikh-heritage.co.uk/Scriptures/...am%20granth.htm

http://www.sikh-heritage.co.uk/Scriptures/...ru%20Granth.htm

http://namdhari.faithweb.com/granths.htm

Other useful websites about Namdhari Sikhs:

http://www.namdhari-world.com

http://sikhradio.vze.com

http://www.sikh-heritage.co.uk

http://namdhari.faithweb.com

http://namdhari-fact.tk

http://www.kukasikhs.com

http://namdhariveg.sytes.net

Got questions? PM me.

Peace.

Fateh Singh

[mehtab]

Fair enuff...thanks for the links

[sukhsingh]

wow this site (http://namdhari.faithweb.com/granths.htm ) is really messed up. it says that in the times of "satguru" ram singh, there was only 2 and a "half" real sikhs. it says that timeperiod was about 1857.

so that would mean Great Mahaan Shaheeds like Akali Phoola Singh Ji, and great generals like Hari Singh werent real sikhs.

thats some great ninda they are doing...

[drawrof]

interesting point.

here is "one" claim I will have to refute. It was said that naamdhari's are the only people who read gurbani shudh....well, I myself have heard differences there. The satgurueh namah shabad (of sukhmani sahib) on the sangeet stream (nwss024) says "nam-ah" whereas when I was in bhaini sahib, singhs were saying "nam-eh"........so if both non-naamdhari singhs and naamdhari singhs are pronouncing things exactly the same, or of saying either of the 2 renditions...then how are only naamdhari singhs right?

[jsb]

because, our beautiful theory of sikhi is "i'm right, you're wrong, so screw you you stupid little punk. my way's right, your way's wrong"

thus, both feel they're right!

(how was that for educated refutal )

[cybersingh]

Waheguru ij ka khalsa Waheguru ji ki fateh

To the sangat, I would like to say that if I say anything which turns out to be offending to anyone please forgive me.

This 'narration' is not correct. Many namdhari jatha's have held sangat and have done sewa at Sachkhand Sri Hazoor Sahib. My nana ji who has been with guru/sant maharaj partap singh ji and guru/sant maharaj jagjit sigh ji for over 40 yrs and has travelled the world over with them confirmed with me that this 'narration' is not correct. In fact, namdhari's have been asked to hold kirtan/diwans at Sri Hazoor sahib.

There is yet to be proven that Namdhari's don't respect SGGS (Aad Sri Granth Sahib ji)

To anyone who says this, I would like to personally challenge them in a calm discussion. Namdhari's hold high esteem for SGGS and also Dasam Granth whereas in mainstream sikhi there are those that refute the dasam granth is not a granth............

Can someone please explain that?

My humble request to the cybersangat is please, before you start posting things are not even true, get some research done. This way we all can avoid clashes/heated arguments.

I myself am from a Namdhari background but keep an open mind to everything. If anyone has any questions, please PM me or email me at gursevb@hotmail.com

Bhul Chuk Maaf

[cybersingh]

wow this site (http://namdhari.faithweb.com/granths.htm ) is really messed up. it says that in the times of "satguru" ram singh, there was only 2 and a "half" real sikhs. it says that timeperiod was about 1857.

so that would mean Great Mahaan Shaheeds like Akali Phoola Singh Ji, and great generals like Hari Singh werent real sikhs.

thats some great ninda they are doing...

WJKK WJKF

veer, this is not ninda. before you jump on the wagon, please listen to what i am about to say but before I do so, please forgive me If I offend anyone as that is not my intention.

The term of 2 and a half sikhs doesn't mean by physical manner but in the manner of spirituality. Such as the case these days, where most sikhs wear a kara, hang a khanda in the cars but do everything the opposite to sikhi such as drinkin, smoking etc... in the same car where there is a hanging khanda.

there were sikhs in his time but the "2 and a half" were the puran sikhs who would live in pure chardi kalaa and live by sikh ethics, morals and code of conduct rather than just say that they are sikhs but don't practise it.

Bhul Chuk Maaf