Guest Posted August 20, 2004 Report Share Posted August 20, 2004 if u really think its a hoax y not go n have a debate with nidsar singh himself, from wa i no he will answer all ur questions. oh n sever most of ur limbs (jokes) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Beast Posted August 20, 2004 Report Share Posted August 20, 2004 Brother Jungee (should be spelt as Jangee!) 1. Yes 2. Yes 3. I never said Gatka is the “true†martial arts of the Sikhs, but whatever Shastarvidhya is, it is anything but the one being practiced and taught by Nihangs in India. Open question - how many people know the true art (ie what Shastarvidiya proports to be?). From Niddar Singh himself the number is said to be very small. So what are the chances that Singh47 saw 'real' ShastarVidiya being practised by Nihangs? my own feeling is that Singh47 has confused 2 issues: 1. What martial arts do Nihangs in India practise openly? 2. Does Niddar Singh teach the secretive battlefield art ShastarVidiya? Both issues are related but different. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nihal_Kaur Posted August 20, 2004 Report Share Posted August 20, 2004 plus i think it is common sense that only a fool would display all his/her tactics, strategies, penthri,techniques to the enemy or anyone who wanders in their path. Wouldn't you agree Singh47? What we see is not always what we want it to be, and often we can't see anything, even when its in front of our faces. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Morpheous Posted August 20, 2004 Report Share Posted August 20, 2004 Gurfateh Shastar Vidiya being a hoax ? LOL, trust me, when you've been doing martial arts all your life(and defeating top fighters on the way) and a 1 year trainee of Shaster Vidiya takes you down---- ITS NO DAMN HOAX THEN! Singh47 - provide some academic evidence or shut up. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HeyDudesWassup Posted August 20, 2004 Report Share Posted August 20, 2004 I took a look at Pentras - Skills and Strategies, and there are so many weaknesses in standup, it is just not realistic. Its so easy to take them down and ground and pound or submit. In my opinion Niddar's guys cannot do anything in the field of competitive martial arts. If I'm wrong then come sign up for Vale Tudo or Sambo competition. If you want to know how to effectivly fight take Krav Maga lessons. I am not from the UK, but if any of Niddar's top students would want to spar with other martial artists then I'd be happy to help set up a session with London Shootfighters http://www.londonshootfighters.com/. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Beast Posted August 20, 2004 Report Share Posted August 20, 2004 HeyDudeWassup, I think you underestimate some of the students. Just think away from ShastarVidiya for a second - isn't it feasible that in the UK there are some Sikhs who have mastered a martial art? If so, and coming back to ShastarVidiya, don't you think that its possible that some of these students are now Shagrids of Nihang Niddar Singh? In general, First it was claimed that he was a hoax and Jahir Gatka was the real art. Now the focus seems to have shifted towards 'mainstream' martial arts because people have come to realise that Jahir Gatka is overrated. Give him time dude - he's only just gained exposure to the mainstream British public. I think as ShastarVidiya gains popularity, people from these arts will become interested and will hopefully compare it to their own. Also dude, you gave a valid reason why your opinion does not carry much weight - you are not from the UK so you have not been to the classes over a sustained period of time. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HeyDudesWassup Posted August 20, 2004 Report Share Posted August 20, 2004 Beast I don't need to be in his classes to know there are weaknesses in his fighting style (just watch the videos). I think you HUGELY underestimate other martial arts. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Beast Posted August 20, 2004 Report Share Posted August 20, 2004 Are you basing your judgement on the videos, or because you don't loke him? To be a critique of what he teaches surely you should witness it for yourself? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HeyDudesWassup Posted August 20, 2004 Report Share Posted August 20, 2004 I am a student of martial arts, I call it like I see it. This stuff just cannot be applied in the real world of mixed martial arts. Watch UFC PPV tommorow or better yet Pride FC Grand Prix and you will see real mixed martial artists. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Maha Singh Posted August 20, 2004 Report Share Posted August 20, 2004 The only experience of Shastar Vidiya / Jang Di Vidiya / Svai Rakshah you have witnessed is that which is on the website, anyone who goes to the akhara will tell you that those videos do not do the vidiya any justice, mainly because its slowed down for the camera, you have to see it in action and have an understanding of it to appreciate it, and no this isnt what Nihang Niddar Singh said to make me believe in it as Singh47 mentioned, nor have his comments "burst my bubble". The fact remains that everyone who comes to the akhara learns the most effective self defence even within their first few lessons, come there and ask any of the students, or even better challenge Nihang Niddar Singh to show him how easy you can take him down. GurFateh Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
guv Posted August 20, 2004 Report Share Posted August 20, 2004 3. I never said Gatka is the “true†martial arts of the Sikhs, but whatever Shastarvidhya is, it is anything but the one being practiced and taught by Nihangs in India. that's very true. i have seen nihangs in india practice gatka, & it is nothing like shaster vidya. it is exactly the same as jahir gatka practiced in the uk by groups such as baba fateh singh gatka akhara & bhai fauja singh gatka akhara. there are three possibilities for this difference: 1. shaster vidya is made up & gatka is the true sikh martial art. 2. gatka is made up & shaster vidya is the true sikh martial art. 3. both are made up & the true sikh martial art has been lost. The so-called “Shastar Vidya†is nothing but a hoax. It's not even puraatan the way it is being portrayed in its website. Just a matter of time before it gets exposed for what it really is. it appears u believe option 1, but u have failed to give any historical evidence to show that is the case. nor have u critiqued shaster vidya on its martial effectiveness (although to be fair u haven't criticised its effectiveness.) please could u provide any evidence to show either that shaster vidya is not the true martial art for sikhs, or that gatka is (if u believe that to be true.) the fact that nihangs in india practice gatka does not prove anything. also, have u ever been to a shaster vidya lesson? In my opinion Niddar's guys cannot do anything in the field of competitive martial arts. i agree. competitive martial arts work on a points system or locks/pinning the opponent down, whereas shaster vidiya is focussed around beating the opponent by any means (included for example bone breaking.) Beast I don't need to be in his classes to know there are weaknesses in his fighting style (just watch the videos). could u please elaborate? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Narsingha Posted August 20, 2004 Author Report Share Posted August 20, 2004 Shastar Vidiya is designed for the battlefield, Savya Rakshah designed for the street for effective self defence as a last resort. Neither are designed for winning "points" or "competitions". NB: Tha Hadh Torh Challenge is not a competition as there is no prize to win. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rakash Singh Posted August 20, 2004 Report Share Posted August 20, 2004 I have done martial arts for a good fews years of my life, from shotokan karate to bits of aikido and muay thai. ive also been to niddars lessons. heydudewassup ufc fighters train to take blows to face and body and wear protective equipment. shastar vidiya and its deeper jang di vidiya is designed to kill quickly and effieciently. you have to look at the purpose and practicality of each individual art. after takin so many blows to the head ufc fighters will wear out, humans arent desined to take head shots, but a learned shastar vidiya warrior will use his technique to save him when his strength fails (due to fatigue etc) the video clips are of Sava Rakshah or "self defence" so obviously the victim will be unaware and also the clips slow to show viewers what technique is being used etc. ive seen niddar go through 5-6 guys with ease like knife through butter at the akhara, in which he was demonstarting a more advanced vidiya. yes nihangs in india practice something different to niddar singh, thats because they dont know what he knows. what he was taught only very few people knew now because of british influences during the british occupation of the panjaab in 1850's+. they operated a shhot to kill policy with akalis and all the vidiya became almost lost forever. shastar vidiya at the highest level is designed to kill masses of enemys quickly in war, ufc fighting vale tudo or krag mava is not. krag mava is more a self defence art, ukranian if im right. i dont hugely under estimate other arts but shastar vidiya is designed with weapons in mind, i believe niddar would cut up a shaolin monk in a duel any day. and even the unarmed combat niddar teaches is lethal. shastar vidiya is not a competitive art its a killing art, put a shastar vidiya shagird to the death with any other martial arts practioner and they shagrid will come out on top. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Singh47 Posted August 21, 2004 Report Share Posted August 21, 2004 “i believe niddar would cut up a shaolin monk in a duel any day.†Oh Palease!!! He’s no match for an expert Shaolin Monk. Those guys train and meditate all day long, the way Sikhs use to be a long time ago. Those guys could waste Niddar and most martial artists. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HeyDudesWassup Posted August 21, 2004 Report Share Posted August 21, 2004 A Shaolin monk could absorb a crazy amount of punishment not to mention inflict a CRAZY amount as well WITH WEAPONS or HAND TO HAND. I don't think Niddar can take a straight right punch to the throat from someone 3 times his size without even blinking, a Shaolin monk can. The best martial art on the battlefield is Combat SAMBO in my opinion. ----------------------- Combat SAMBO is a very aggressive system designed to prepare an individual to be effective in any situation. It includes techniques that are dangerous and prohibited in sports. The Russian Military, Police, special Crowd Control units, Marines, and others have employed Combat SAMBO for all aspects of self-defense and close combat. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sikher Posted August 21, 2004 Report Share Posted August 21, 2004 People that do not/are to scared to go to the Akhara's are missing out and loosing, out so much that they could learn from such a great teacher. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rakash Singh Posted August 21, 2004 Report Share Posted August 21, 2004 An Akali Nihang of the 1700/1800's with knowledge of the vidiya and power through reciting Gurbani with each breath would be the most powerful warrior in the world. Im not too sure on shaolin monks and their art being battle tested but Shastar Vidiya certainly is... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted August 21, 2004 Report Share Posted August 21, 2004 knock u all out wid a super soaker as once tony montana did say "say ello to ma lil fren" Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nihal_Kaur Posted August 22, 2004 Report Share Posted August 22, 2004 Isnt someone forgetting something? Our Gurus passed down a Vidiya, and we're fighting amongst ourselves saying nah, this martial art is better or that martial art is better, doesn't anyone believe in the Guru anymore? Belief in a teacher is to think yourself less than them, and to be humble before them, accepting their knowledge and trying to better yourself. I say take knowledge from wherever you can get it. Most people here are acting on heresay, and believing in what others tell them. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mugermach Singh Posted August 23, 2004 Report Share Posted August 23, 2004 The so-called “Shastar Vidya†is nothing but a hoax. It's not even puraatan the way it is being portrayed in its website. Just a matter of time before it gets exposed for what it really is. Hoax, god u must be dumb. Singh47, u stick to ur front flick and back flick techniques.. Yaaaaaaaaawwwn, does anyone have anything useful to write instead of the same old same old? Here u may find this useful.. You're a <No Personal attack Please.. Edited by moderators>. Conclusive proof? Just take a look at their video for a minute and then compare that abomination with how the real Nihangs in India do martial arts, and you will have your proof. It really surprises me how gullible most of you NRIs are. Is it any wonder Sikhs in Punjab refer to you western born and bred Sikhs as “Sidhahâ€. Niddar teaching this so-called “shastar vidya†and packaging it up as the “real†martial arts of the Sikhs is a perfect example of a Punjabi saying “Anayaa’ch Kanaa Rajaa†(One eyed man is king amongst the blind). God, ur such an *beep*, dude i havent ever met any1 as thick as you, sorry to be blunt, i just dont think you'll understand it any other way. Maha Singh, sorry to burst your bubble about the this mythical martial arts Niddar may have told you about, but it is anything but Nihang martial arts. It seems hardly anyone here has had any real experience with Nihangs in India. Nihangs in india wouldnt teach u anything cos ur such a beeeeeeep. A Shaolin monk could absorb a crazy amount of punishment not to mention inflict a CRAZY amount as well WITH WEAPONS or HAND TO HAND. I don't think Niddar can take a straight right punch to the throat from someone 3 times his size without even blinking, a Shaolin monk can. Heres a Concept For you. If your not there they cant hit you. In the battle field we dont go around absorbing cuts, we KILL, it you wanna tod around with the babies learning back flips and doing cart wheels then go ahead. I doubt Maharaj Guru Gobind Singh Jee would do a Cart Wheel to kill his Oppenent, he would use his brains and either fight with the Shaster using PENTRA's or use the arrows to strike down the enemy. NIHANG Baba Deep Singh Ji was 80+ when he was fighting, do you think he would be doing cart wheels, I dont think so, Pentra is the key, We dont absorb punchs and kicks instead we move out of the way. Why chop a tree using ur bare hands when you can get a axe. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Javanmard Posted August 23, 2004 Report Share Posted August 23, 2004 Wise words Muhermach!!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hari Posted August 23, 2004 Report Share Posted August 23, 2004 See the paintra's.Witness the Kaal paintra done by Nihang Niddar Singh Ji or his students.Sheer beauty. :twisted: Kaal Paintra :twisted: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Singh47 Posted August 23, 2004 Report Share Posted August 23, 2004 Mugarmuch, you are so hilarious. Your profanities don’t make me angry one bit, on the contrary they make me laugh at your moorakhtaa. You are so Sidhaah. Oh how I wish I could meet you in person, then I would see if you had the guts to say any of that crap to my face, or better yet why dont you PM me and tell me when and where you would like to meet. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
drawrof Posted August 23, 2004 Report Share Posted August 23, 2004 easy with the temper guys, its good ke singha de chandee karakhdee!, but lets only use krodh, and ahankar in limits (like gurmukhs) when it is truly needed. the truth is we are all different and even being very similar we will differ in views. Lets focus on oankaar, and say "waheguru". Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mugermach Singh Posted August 23, 2004 Report Share Posted August 23, 2004 Mugarmuch, you are so hilarious Why thank you, but my opinion of you is unchanged. Your profanities don’t make me angry one bit, on the contrary they make me laugh at your moorakhtaa. You are so Sidhaah It wasnt supposed to make you angy, for a angry person doesnt think straight (sidha or Sidhaah as you spell it). But seeing your not angry, u must be thinking straight, so your next few lines are definitly you speaking and not your anger getting the better of you. Oh how I wish I could meet you in person That can be arranged. then I would see if you had the guts to say any of that crap to my face I'll tell you what, when you come down, i will read the post that i typed out to you OUT LOUD. and if you wish Singh47, i will also read this one out loud. or better yet why dont you PM me and tell me when and where you would like to meet. Like a Crocodile im happy sitting where i am, i going to go about my daily activities as normal, you can come to me as i have no desire at all to meet you, however since you want to meet me im at the Birmingham Akhara, You can find me there, although if you cant find the akhara places send me a PM and i will forward you detail on how to get there. All you need to do is ask 'Whose mugermach Singh' most of the singhs will point to me, while i will also me there saying 'Thats me' so you cant really miss me at the akhara. If you dont want to ask any1, then let me know and i will wear a name tag just for you. Since it was you speaking and not your anger, I hope to see you soon, ps, i really really like Mr Kipling Apple Pies, so if your comming to see me, get me a pack of them. thanks. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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