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Martial Arts Illustrated: Shastar Vidiya


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“What I meant by “96 crore Shaheed Singhs†are the spirits of 96 crore Singhs who have laid down their lives for the protection of Dharm†- Singh47

Rite...now we are getting somewhere.

So, according to you, "96 crore Shaheed Singhs" (ie, 960,000,000 Singhs) have given their lives for the protection of Dharam. I assume that to become a 'Shaheed Singh', that Singh must once have lived. Unless of course we are taking about Spirits that become "Shaheed" without actually dying..in which case we have stumbled upon an interesting paradox and one for the paranormal scientists to investigate further...

This "96 Crore", ie, 960,000,000 is a HUGE number...a number just short of the current population of India (Jai Hind!!) :LOL:

So, Singh47, taking this a step further...

When exactly did so many Singhs lay down their lives :?:

Either my logic has flaws, or someone/something should be held responsible for a record-breaking mass genocide of the 960,000,000 Sikh lives sometime during the last 500 years....or 300 years if you assume 'Singhs' came along after 1699.

Assuming we have 20,000,000 Sikhs in the world today, lets do a very rough calculation. Lets say every century has 4 generations. So, over the last 500 years we have had roughly 4x5 generations...ie 20 generations. Even if ignore demographic data structures, growth extrapolations, etc etc, and overestimate the cumulative Sikh population by multiplying 20 generations by 20,000,000 Sikhs (the product being 400,000,000), we still dont come close to 960,000,000. We have 560,000,000 unaccounted for...oh dear!!

The closest we have to anything close to such a number are the attrocities committed by Hilter and Stalin. In fact I doubt the population of India was close to 960,000,000 in the past, let alone the Sikhs...be it over several generations...or perhaps contraception is more effective than we thought :oops:

Singh47, perhaps you could offer an explanation with regards to how these '96 Crore' Shaheed Singhs came into being.

In fact after examining your explanation, even the "cloud" hypothesis seems more likely.... :roll:

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narsingha,

I'm glad you can do math, but lets look at the terminology that has been used by the guru's and the guru khalsa panth...

I don't think your theory is valid...

I personally believe that 960,000,000 is a metaphor. the fact that the terminology has been used prior to guru gobind singh ji's time, (in the first 30 years of baba sri chand's time) is indicative of it being either a religious or a widely accepted terminology.

you and I both know that the kakkars, and symbols in baana go deeper into the "indian religious traditions" than is propogated... so why can't the 960,000,000 be part of a greater vocabulary that was used as opposed to being a very finite number?

I have found a reference where that number has been used... and there is a significance behind that number. I am still more convinced with my logic than it being an exact number that guru sahib just chose out of thin air.

its like the usage of the sarabloh baata and kirpan prior to serving degh....there is a reason for why sarabloh hsa been used...if you know, please share...otherwise I don't mind sharing

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narsingha, if you are referencing earlier works...chandi ki vaar etc, then there has to be a paradigm shift.

if we look at the khalsa, as the warriors in satyug...where they were fighters in dusht daman's army...then there is a totally different outlook on everything..

this goes back to satyug...and the references come in both dasam guru darbar and sarbloh darbar..

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drawof

I agree with you that there the use of metaphor does exist. However, whether we stay in reality or the bounds of mythology depends upon the context. As yet, Singh47 who insists on using this term has not come up with a plausible explanation for "96 Crore".

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narisingha wrote:

“Singh47, perhaps you could offer an explanation with regards to how these '96 Crore' Shaheed Singhs came into being.â€

In suraj prakaash there is a mention of Guru Jee showing Baba Banda Singh Bahadur millions of Shastardhari Shaheed SInghs when he looked up in the sky. Fellow forum member Veer Amrit has translated that part of the Sakhi on another topic in this forum.

“(Taken from Sri Gur Partaap Sooraj Granth)

When 'Banda' heard these advices (by Guru Gobind Singh Jee), he asked with folded hands, "What will I do going there alone? How will I fight against millions of the enemies? It will be appropriate, (if you give me the 'Gupt' power), so that I could take revenge killing the enemy. Thus, please protect my honor. Your attribute of 'Greeb Nivaaz' will come to light".

Guru Jee said, "There will be thousands of 'Akaalis'. I have appointed them under you. You will have a big army. If you do not believe, then close your eyes and see by yourself".

When Baba Jee closed his eyes, he saw millions of them ('Gupt warriors') in the sky. There was no end to that army. That was a very huge army of 'Singhs'. They were having guns, bows and arrows. They were capable to kill the enemies.

(Sri Gur Partaap Sooraj Granth, 'Ain' 2, 'Ansoo' 6, page 6246).â€

taken from:

http://sikhawareness.com/sikhawareness/vie...=shaheed+singhs

Narsingha, perhaps now you can explain to us how you interpret “shainvay crore.â€

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narisingha wrote:

In suraj prakaash there is a mention of Guru Jee showing Baba Banda Singh Bahadur millions of Shastardhari Shaheed SInghs when he looked up in the sky. Fellow forum member Veer Amrit has translated that part of the Sakhi on another topic in this forum.

“(Taken from Sri Gur Partaap Sooraj Granth)

When 'Banda' heard these advices (by Guru Gobind Singh Jee), he asked with folded hands, "What will I do going there alone? How will I fight against millions of the enemies? It will be appropriate, (if you give me the 'Gupt' power), so that I could take revenge killing the enemy. Thus, please protect my honor. Your attribute of 'Greeb Nivaaz' will come to light".

Guru Jee said, "There will be thousands of 'Akaalis'. I have appointed them under you. You will have a big army. If you do not believe, then close your eyes and see by yourself".

When Baba Jee closed his eyes, he saw millions of them ('Gupt warriors') in the sky. There was no end to that army. That was a very huge army of 'Singhs'. They were having guns, bows and arrows. They were capable to kill the enemies.

(Sri Gur Partaap Sooraj Granth, 'Ain' 2, 'Ansoo' 6, page 6246).â€

taken from:

http://sikhawareness.com/sikhawareness/vie...=shaheed+singhs

Narsingha, perhaps now you can explain to us how you interpret “shainvay crore.â€

A BIG UP to Amrit Singhji and for Singh47ji for pointing out Amrit Singhji's post. I am surprised that Narsingha's posts on this forum always talk about the 96 Crore Budha Dal and he praises Sooraj Parkash Granth and still he missed the connection between 96 Crore and the Shaheed Singhs mentioned in Sooraj Parkash Granth as helping Banda Singh Bahadur. It was highly amusing to read Narsingha sarcastic post trying to belittle Singh47ji's claim that there have 96 crore Shaheed Singhs but the answer to Narsingha's questions were right under his nose.

The Arrogant get humbled indeed

Let me take a wild guess, could the 96 Crore used by Budha Dal be a reference to the protection of the Shaheed Singhs the Dal has just like the ones Banda Singh Bahadur had?

What is your view of the 96 Crore claim Narsingha?

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Waheguru Ji Ka Khalsa Waheguru Ji Ki Fateh.

I always did doubt the vidiya which Niddar Singh teaches as it came suddenly from nowhere and as a kid i grew up knowing of Gatka & not shastar vidiya. I attended a few classes just to see what it was like. Just to see the what the fuss people were making about what the real vidiya is, i attended a Gatka class. Here i said to a dedicated member of Gatka, "Lets have a spaaring match", he replied "I can't, i dont have a stick." This made me think how practical shastar vidiya is, you can't knock it as its practical & can be used in all situations. I dont mean to offend anyone, this is just my personal view. Let me know what you think?

Waheguru Ji Ka Khalsa Waheguru Ji Ki Fateh.

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gatka is a game, i have very little knoledge of fighting, but i can pretty much say that i wouldn't have a problem with dealing with a "gatkabaj" but ne way wa did ya'l think of the article.

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just curious

1.has anybody read the article?

2.what do you think of the questions krisna asked?

3.do you think the pictures provided were good in explaining the techniques?

4.is the magazine gonna do another article on it?

my own opinion is that the aricle was quite informative. four pages of brilliant images and knowledge on a very deadly art. it was the best article in the magazine in the last 6 months.

krisna asked some pretty good questions and the answers were quite good in enligtening individuals who have come across this style for the first time.

my opinion is the article shoud be a monthly thing for the magazine, its a different and more original approach to self defense unlike some conventional styles who have become too corupted over time due to politics and limitations whilst converting to a sport.

please can people who have ACTUALLY read the article put some input to this topic. people keep going of on a tangent with there own personal issues.

(n also could some one if they could, put up a copy of thearticle on this site. it doesnt have to be the whole thing, just part of it so some of the readers can have a look.)

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  • 2 weeks later...

Here is the actual article:

Shastarvidiya - Indian Martial Arts by Krishan Godhania

As a native of India, I have always had an interest in the vast array of traditional Indian Martial Arts. Locating such martial arts is difficult; teachers in India are highly secretive by nature. This is due to the deadly nature of these battlefield arts; the treasured knowledge is passed only to a select few. Nidar Singh - who has been practising the art of Shastarvidiya for over two decades and is perhaps the senior gutu of this particular art in the UK - shares the background and development of this ancient martial art.

Krishna Godhania: What is Shastarvidiya?

Nidar Singh: Shastar literally means weapons, Vidiya means knowledge. Shaster Vidiya is the name of traditional Indian martial arts of Northern India.

KG: Can you tell us briefly about the history of Shastervidiya?

NS: There is no single source of history of Shaster Vidiya. There are a number of mythological Indian stories regards the origins of Shastar Vidiya. One that is popularly spoken of by Sikh warriors, the Akali Nihangs, is how once the king of Indian demigods Indira, defeated by demon Muru, fled from thefield of battle. Then Brahma (Hindu God of creation), as commanded by highest God, lit a great sacrificial fire. Then on composing the mystical incantation, Brahma Kavch (still recited by Akali Nihang warriors for protection to this day) offered sacrifices and praised God's divine power Goddess Chandi as a sword. She then manifested herself as Goddess Asi (sword). Taking hold of the sword, the demigods Vishna, Shiva, Indira, etc. defeated their demonic foes. This sword was then passed to the great Sage Manu (Noah of India). He created the Khashtriya (Indian martial) cast and gave then the Asi and all its knowledge of Shaster Vidiya. In time this Vidiya was taught in the great ancient university city of Taxila (now in Northern Pakistan) from where Buddhist monks took it to China and beyond. The Sikh warriors of the 16th century founded by Guru Nanak (1469-1539) are the inheritors of this ancient Khashtriya Indian martial tradition.

KG: Is it unique to India or was it influenced by other oriental martial arts?

NS: The art is basically unique to India but in the past it was influenced by Arabic and Persian arts, such as 'Shamshir Baji', both through friendly and hostile interaction.

KG: What areas of combat does it cover, eg unarmed combat, warfare and street?

NS: The art exists at four levels.

Sava Raksha - Traditional, Unarmed, armed self-defence techniques.

Greh Rakha - Tradtional tactics and strategies of home-defence.

Goah Rakhia - Tradtional tactics and strategies of village-defence.

Jangi Vidiya - Traditionan Indian Sikh battlefield techniques.

KG: It seems to specialize in using strategy and deception. How would you employ this in a one against many opponents situation?

NS: Knowing the appropriate strategy and employing the appropriate tactics is the key to success in this art. The best strategies and tactics are, on the whole, though not always, concealed from the opponent. So the Vidiya is very devious and deceptive in application. What you don't see coming has the most impact. As for one fighting against many and what strategies and tactics are to be employed in this situation; it depends on the scenario. One simple strategy is to explode the the approaching opponents then, staying on the periphery, close in and aggresively herd them together knocking them all off-balance, confusing their sense of direction. Then appropriately using them as shields, making them obstacles for each other, quickly mixing amongst them and dispatching them employing unarmed or weapon techniques. Do not pull away from them and let them gain balance or space for maneuverability, pile them togehter and cut or strike them down. This strategy is known as Satha Vashona (clumping and cutting down crops to lay in the field) in Shaster Vidiya.

KG: Is there a spiritual side, I hear about a 'warrior yoga' you teach?

NS: Yes, there is a deep spiritual tradition. It incorporates a special form of dynamic martial Yoga, 'Sanjam Kiriya Viriyam', the self-disciplining excercises of a Sikh warrior.

KG: You mentioned battle with external foes and internal ones, could you elaborate on this.

NS: External foes are Dusht Dokhian meaning evil beings who cause pain to others. They disrupt the universal Dharma. Internal foes are the vices within Man. Chief amongst them are five: Kaam (illegitimate lust), Krodha (Out of context anger), Lobh (inappropriate material desire), Moh (misplaced love) and Hankar (Egocentricity).

KG: Do you have any texts or scriptures on war and battle?

NS: Yes, there are two main martial texts amongst the Akali Nihangs. Dasam Guru Darbar and Sarbloh Guru Darbar both authored by the great warrior Akali Guru Gobind Singh (1666-1708).

KG: Tell us about the ancient Sikh warrior traditions like hunting and applying blood to weapons and battle standards. Do you still maintain these? Is this relevant in today's modern world?

NS: Since ancient times hunting has been part and parcel of Indian warrior tradition. To build and test their courage ancient Hindu, Sikh, Mogul and other warriors would engage tigers, bears, elephants, etc. in single combat using a variety of weapons on foot or horse back. Today the Khalsa Sikh warriors, the Akali Nihangs, in order to maintain their martial spirit, still hunt as much as modern times allow or more generally decapitate goats and with its blood anoint their weaponsm standards, battle drums and the foreheads of warriors. For Akali Nihangs these traditions are as relevant today as in the past, in the sense that they keep them attached to their martial heritage.

KG: Some people would say, what is the point of training with a sword when an AK-47 would do the job a lot quicker. What is your view?

NS: Akali Nihang warriors in India do keep and train in use of all forms of modern firearms such as AK-47, but the AK-47 alone cannot attach a Sikh to his martial history, heritage, ideology or philosophy. Any undisciplined Tom, Dick or Harry may pick up an AK-47 and kill, as in the 1980s during the nightmare years of terrorism in the Punjab. Swordsmanship and its related arts take years of assiduous disciplined training. These long years of hard training under the guidance of a Gurdev (master) forge the spirit, mind and body, tempering it with all the best qualities of an enlightened soul such as morality, ethics, character, intellect, wisdom, physical-mental discipline and spiritual equipoise. All these are the qualities of a true Sikh warrior. Such warriors upholding Dharma seek to bring peace and prosperity to all. In contrast, the AK-47, weapon of choice of most terrorists in the world, in the hands of undisciplined fools gives nothing but death and suffering.

KG: On your website, a Nihang Warrior is seen decapitating a goat (on video). How is this related to your martial art?

NS: Chatka (to kill quickly) is the fundamental principle behind Shaster Vidiya. Chatka does not come easy to humans even though they may sit down with their ham sandwich and munch away. Ask most meat eaters would you have killed, skinned and cooked what you eat? The answer in most cases would be 'no'. Humans have a natural aversion to killing, so Sikh warriors, in order to overcome this natural human inhibition to kill and shed blood, decapitate goats. Goats are chosen, apart from the obvious fact they are a good source of meat and leather, because a mature goat's neck is very close in size to a human neck. Akali Nihang warriors state that the same amount of force is required to decapitate a goat as humans, so it is good martial strategy. Once decapitated, the cutting and butchering of the goat also serves to help overcome the human inhibition to shed blood.

KG: Each of the forms you demonstrated were based upon Hindu Gods in animal forms. Could you describe these a little and their effectiveness in combat?

NS: These Khat Ang Yudhan (Six classical combat forms) are:

1. Virah Yudhan (Wild Boar form) characterised by explosive close quater multiple strikes to bodies 107 Marma.

2. Sheshnag Yudhan (Cobra from) characterised by close quater fluid strikes and limb-snaring, joint-breaking, dislocating and choking techniques.

3. Garrur Yudhan (Eagle/Gander/Peacock/Cockerel form) characterised by angling off opponent to maneuver around opponent to devastate with a long-range barrage of hand and foot strikes to Marma.

4. Nandi Pentra (Bull form) characterised by close quarter explosive digging strikes and stand up grappling and body mangling techniques.

5. Nar Singha Yudhan (Tiger form) characterised bu evasive hypnotic footwork with sudden pouncing attacks to take opponent down to ground fighting.

6. Hanuman Yudhan (Langur monkey form) characterised by low ground hugging baiting postures. It is strong in low high explosive adroit attacks to take the opponent down to the ground to destroy but quickly springing up so as not to get entangled in ground fighting.

Each of the Pentras (forms) are highly effective by themselvesm but when combined they are most effective.

KG: There is a huge variety in bladed weapons, what are your favourite weapons and why?

NS: Shaster Vidiya has the largest range of weaponry of any martial art in the world. To say that any particular one is my favourite is impossible. I get pleasure in training with all the weapons of the art in particular the mind and spirit.

KG: Some of our readers may have seen 'Gatka' (more popular Sikh mrtial art) being demonstrated around the UK on Sikh festivals. How is Shastervidiya different and why is it virtually unheard of, even in Sikh circles?

NS: Gatka is a Sikh martial exhibitionist art, which evolve under the restrictions of the British Raj in the 1860s. Shastervidiya is the original Sikh combat art that, under the restrictions of the British Raj, went underground. Due to Shaster Vidiya's secretive nature, not even many Sikhs now know of its true form. Today, because mention of Shaster Vidiya is still found in ancient Sikh texts, you will still occasionally hear of its name amongst Sikhs. Though on a whole at present the general Sikh public, including practitioners of Gatka, are confusing the tmasha (circus act) of Gatka with Shaster Vidiya.

KG: How easy and practical is it to learn?

NS: The self-defence aspect of Shaster Vidiya is very practical and easy to learn. On the other hand, the classical battlefield aspect of Shaster Vidiya with its classical Pentras and live blade sparring is extremely practical and effective in application, but it is not very easy to learn.

KG: Does it cater for women and children?

NS: Yes it does. Children, women and adult males are taught in seperate syllabuses.

KG: Do you have a grading structure like belts or sashes?

NS: No.

KG: In your opinion, what makes Shaster Vidiya unique as compared to Eskrima or Wushu?

NS: In terms of character, Shaster Vidiya is unique in its Punjabi Indian-ness. In terms of technique its unique in the vast array of strategies, tactics and techniques it enshrines, combining the six classical forms. Further, its uniqueness lis in the manner it combines unarmed techniques with weapons. Even the attire of the Akali Nihang warrior from his bracelets to the arrowhead protusion from the top of his war turban are but deadly weapons. Yet the most outstanding uniqueness of this ancient art, which strikes all its observers, lies in its exceptionally fluid footwork and technique.

KG: How long hav you been learning and teaching this martial art?

NS: Over 20 years.

KG: Are there many masters of this art?

NS: As guns became more popular the emphasis on this art decreased in the itinierant Akali Nihang armies. Today there are not many masters of this art alive. The ones I know, if still alive, are Nihang Baba Ram Singh in UP, India and Bhai Ranjit Singh of Patiala who has partial knowledge of this art. There are no doubt others in Budha Dal (oldest Sikh martial order established in 1606) but they being itinerant mendicants of secretive nature, are not easy to track down.

KG: Plesae tell us of any real-live encounters where yu have had to use this knowledge to protect yourself or others?

NS: In self-defence, it is taught to circumvent and avoid violence where possible. Only a fool goes seeking violence. Yet over the years I have encountered knife, stick, sword etc. attacks. One Nihang fool I disarmed and knocked out in Anandpur sought to shoot me. I have also encountered mobs in Delhi targetting Sikhs. Each time my Vidiya stood me well. In the UK I have had numerous indiviuals test my art in the Akhara. Our Baba Darbara Singh Akhara established in the middle of the 17th century allows for anyone to come and challenge the Akhara master. It is challenges that keep the Vidiya strong.

KG: Does one have to be a Sikh to learn this art?

NS: No, the art is open to all of any race, creed, religion or colour provided they make these three pledges:

Not to abuse the art.

Not to sell the art.

Not to teach anyone who does not pledge to the above two pledges.

KG: Where in England do you currently teach?

NS: Wolverhampton, Birmingham, Coventry, Leicester, Slough and Hounslow. Check out www.shastarvidiya.org

KG: You don't have set fees - how are your classes funded?

NS: Each student according to his/her capacity, gives monetary contribution as they salute weapons and ancient Gurdevs at the beginning of each class.

KG: Thanyou for sharing your knowledge woth the readers of Martial Arts Illustrated.

NS: Its my pleasure, thankyou Krishna for giving me this oppurtunity to further propogate Shastarvidiya.

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i had my first shaster vidiya lesson, it was wikid, i tell ya this art is pure evil, no holds barred bisness.

from wa i learned i think it would give me a upper hand if i got into a scrap, thats how useful the techniques are in my mind.

one more thing jatts, strong as a ox, thick as a ox :D

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i tell ya Niddar Singh ji looks very fearsome, could jus be his teeth, but to speak to he gives the other person alot of respect, ie eye contact n wa not, i was completly astounted, i thought he would jus be like well ego-tistical (sp)

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i tell ya Niddar Singh ji looks very fearsome, could jus be his teeth, but to speak to he gives the other person alot of respect, ie eye contact n wa not, i was completly astounted, i thought he would jus be like well ego-tistical (sp)

Yes, Shastarvidiya Gurdev Nihang Niddar Singh Ji is fearsome and ferocious.That major aspect of his is for the enemies of Dharma only.But he has compassion in his eyes too, I see it there.I see something very interesting in his eyes.Can't quite place it.I feel like I have come under his protection.He's a very lovely man.He has his quirks, but I like quirky people :D .

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