karmjeet Posted August 21, 2004 Report Share Posted August 21, 2004 NANAKSAR The True MARYADA : 1) Seva of Guru Granth Sahib ji is done by sampooran maryada as taught by Baba Nand Singh Ji . Guru Sahib is treated like The King Of All Universes (GOD) not like other gurudwaras where there is not even a palang of proper size for guru ji . 2) Vade Baba Ji ( Nand Singh Ji) did n't allow maya in any form to come in or near nanaksar . Matha tek of paise or money is not allowed in Nanaksar Gurudwara ( Jagraon) its a shame today this maryada is violated in some nanaksar gurudwaras 3) Langar or food was never prepared in the dera . although preparing tea is allowed . but food for guru ji is prepared by the behangams themselves in the gurudwara . The sangat used to bring the langar and rashan paani doing seva. 4) everything was made of mud and brick . and baba ji never made a permanent place for himself . 5) behangams were not allowed to keep money with them , nor do they were allowed to have doors on their rooms . 6) there is no nishan sahib becus baba ji used to say that where there is a nishan sahib it means that dera has the proper provision for langar for the sangat , but here the langar is not guarnteed . it only depends on Nirankar if he sends the food . if he sends it be happy if not then again be happy . 7) there is no custom of gaddi in nanaksar . everybody is sevadar of Guru ji . every seva is done in the name of Guru Granth Sahib not in the name of any person . this ws mainly during baba ji's time . now there have been changes and its shame to say that current sevadars of nanaksar are drifting away from the true purpose and bringing a bad name to nanaksar . i think this is enough for today . I will see ur response to see if i should spend more time on telling about sampat paths and the maryada of other paths etc.. wjkk wjkf 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
shindasingh Posted August 21, 2004 Report Share Posted August 21, 2004 good post... go for it, 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
samosasingh Posted August 23, 2004 Report Share Posted August 23, 2004 please fill us in on the paat stuff 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted August 30, 2004 Report Share Posted August 30, 2004 Good post Karamjeet veer ji...please post more ! 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Slugz Posted October 5, 2005 Report Share Posted October 5, 2005 Hey Guys... I went to two NANAKSAR Gurdwaras in Toronto... One was Gurdev Jis (thats the one I usually go to - him and my grandfather go back)... but I went to Sant Miah Singhs too.... How come he had his picture alongside Saroops of Vada Babaji? I dont understand that? Please clarify... 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DHANBABANANAK Posted October 6, 2005 Report Share Posted October 6, 2005 neo dat part u posted b4 was dat a samartath part? the audio file 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted October 6, 2005 Report Share Posted October 6, 2005 it's called sampat patt. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
harpreet kaur Posted October 6, 2005 Report Share Posted October 6, 2005 I learnt path from the Nanaksar Gurdwara in Birmingham UK which is also under Baba Gurdev Singh Ji. I have participated in the sampath paths they do and it really is a nice feeling. It will be nice to hear about the maryada of the other paths as well 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted October 6, 2005 Report Share Posted October 6, 2005 I have recording of rehras sahib patt by baba gurdev singh ji.. it's amazing 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
harpreet kaur Posted October 6, 2005 Report Share Posted October 6, 2005 I think Baba Gurdev Singh Ji runs 13 Gurdwara around the world, but I do beleive a new one has opened in southall - UK. The sanpath path they do in india last for a long time, normally around the time of Sant Esher Singh Jis Barsi. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted October 6, 2005 Report Share Posted October 6, 2005 Just recently, one of my freind send me this when hurricane rita hit coast of texas. Nanaksar That in houston was on alert: Gurfateh ji.. i just came to let u know Houston's sangat is allrite wid babaji's blessings.. u know when the sangis called Gurdev singh babaji in india regarding the hurricane babaji said "ghabrao na oh te mud v gaya hai" and after few hours we saw on tv that hurricane is on the other side now... and also babaji told the sangat to stay at Nanaksar and do Sukhmani sahib's paath.. which the sangat did from 10 pm to 2 am.. and than regular routine started...and also babaji said koi gal nai asi hurricane vand (divide) dinde ha.. and we found out that it was raining pretty bad in some parts of world... Dhan Dhan baba gurdev Singh Ji. Pure chardi-kallah ! 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Slugz Posted October 7, 2005 Report Share Posted October 7, 2005 NEO... is there anyway we could get that recording (???)... and I heard that Houston story from someone at Nanaksar too... amazing to say the least! Thanks ! 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Niranjana Posted October 10, 2005 Report Share Posted October 10, 2005 Dear Karamjeet, Neo, Blackgoddess and other Nanaksar sangat members / supporters, please could you assist me with the following questions concerning the first post and general items relating to this ‘(up)samprada’ and its “True MARYADA†as coined by our friend Karamjeet. 1) Seva of Guru Granth Sahib ji is done by sampooran maryada as taught by Baba Nand Singh Ji . Guru Sahib is treated like The King Of All Universes (GOD) not like other gurudwaras where there is not even a palang of proper size for guru ji . What exactly is “sampooran†maryada? Your claim that other Gurdwaras do not have a proper palang is plain nonsense – even comparatively recent builds like Brent Sikh Centre have a full sized bed for Guru Sahib’s Sachkhand. It seems you, like other members of schismatic jathas also wish to argue that only your maryada is the true version and that the Sikhi belongs with your baba and his chela – please grow up and avoid unnecessary attacks on the Sikh Panth. 2) Vade Baba Ji ( Nand Singh Ji) did n't allow maya in any form to come in or near nanaksar . Matha tek of paise or money is not allowed in Nanaksar Gurudwara ( Jagraon). Its a shame today this maryada is violated in some nanaksar gurudwaras Please could you expand on this – what exactly is the problem with having money offered for the running of the Gurdwara Sahib, Ashram or Dharamshala? There are plenty of rehitnamas instructing Sikhs to offer daswand to the Guru. Historical sources also bear witness to the Gurus accepting “bheta†from their Sikhs – so please elucidate what the issue is here and why Nanaksar choose to differ on this point. . Langar is a key component of the Sikh Dharamshala / Gurdwara since inception, why does Nanaksar impose this restriction? If tea is permitted for preparation, then now is langar a violation of maryada – moreover, according to Karamjeet this is the true maryada, so by implication you are suggesting that the langar maryada, popularised by Guru Amar Das in particular is incorrect? Again, please elucidate why this is the case? 4) everything was made of mud and brick . and baba ji never made a permanent place for himself . And the point being? Besides, thesedays it is very common to find Nanaksar Gurdwaras all over the world – so what happened to the “true maryadaâ€? If this was the “true maryadaâ€, are you suggesting Karamjeet that Sikhs in India, UK, US etc etc today, not build Gurdwaras, but instead have make shift mud huts? Please explain… 5) behangams were not allowed to keep money with them , nor do they were allowed to have doors on their rooms . The only conclusions that can be drawn from this is that Nanaksar intrinsically view money as an evil and essentially “adharmic†yet there appears to be no shortage of Mercedes cars in the parking lots of their Gurdwaras or for the purposes of transporting the current Babas and secondly that clearly to keep an eye on the all-male celibate behangams, the doors need to be removed? If this is incorrect Karamjeet, please could you explain the real purpose of this point. 6) there is no nishan sahib becus baba ji used to say that where there is a nishan sahib it means that dera has the proper provision for langar for the sangat , but here the langar is not guarnteed . it only depends on Nirankar if he sends the food . if he sends it be happy if not then again be happy . I cannot understand the logic of Sikhs not being able to “guarantee†langar? Even amongst the diaspora Sikhs where one would be hard pressed to find an Amritdhari or even a Keshdhari Singh, such as in the predominantly Jat settlement of early Victoria BC, Yuba City and others, Langar was one thing that was guaranteed without fail – despite what criticisms we may level at the “pioneer†Sikhs, even they as “monae-konae†as some would say, kept this ‘guarantee’ alive to the best of their abilities – why is it that an (up)sampradha such as a Nanaksar, professing powerful lineages of various Sants and Babas (some even claiming to have been Ram Chandar and reincarnations of other Hindu Deities) cannot ‘guarantee’ Langar? Nirankar has provided us with the world in which we live, Nirankar allows us the means by which to function and live, of course Nirankar will send food – it’s a question if ‘we’ are willing to part with our ‘hard-earned’ cash (yes maya!) which we mistake as our own and circulate it for the purposes of the Langar – if there is no langar no need to blame Nirankar, blame ourselves!!! 7) there is no custom of gaddi in nanaksar . everybody is sevadar of Guru ji . every seva is done in the name of Guru Granth Sahib not in the name of any person . this ws mainly during baba ji's time . now there have been changes and its shame to say that current sevadars of nanaksar are drifting away from the true purpose and bringing a bad name to nanaksar . i think this is enough for today . I will see ur response to see if i should spend more time on telling about sampat paths and the maryada of other paths etc.. Yes, this is a shame – one can frequently find pictures of Babas placed alongside Guru Sahib in many Nanaksar Gurdwaras and homes (i.e. one indirectly bows to the photo as well – an act not inspired by Gurmat). Please bring forth your details concerning sampat and other paaths, however first please address the points above. We’ll talk about Sampat paaths after that. Look forward to hearing from you, Niranjana. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted October 10, 2005 Report Share Posted October 10, 2005 Niranjana, I think karamjit singh will be best person to answer those questions.. i m not just nanaksari...as you know i lean towards nirmale sampardhi as whole... 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Niranjana Posted October 10, 2005 Report Share Posted October 10, 2005 Thanks for the update Neo, as you do "lean towards nirmale sampardhi as whole" perhaps you could continue the 101 Discussion on them where there remain many questions concerning their origins and practices, since you'll be best placed to assess those? 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Slugz Posted October 10, 2005 Report Share Posted October 10, 2005 1) Seva of Guru Granth Sahib ji is done by sampooran maryada as taught by Baba Nand Singh Ji . Guru Sahib is treated like The King Of All Universes (GOD) not like other gurudwaras where there is not even a palang of proper size for guru ji I dont know what “sampooran†maryada is! Personally it seems like KARMJEETs words may have been mis-interpreted... Its widely known (and accepted) that before Vada Babaji (Baba Nand Singh Ji) begun his preaching... our beloved Shri Guru Granth Sahib Ji was no longer seen as a GURU... people were placing our Guru on shelfs and in regular storage places without a second thought for its divinity... Babaji worked to change these practices and changed them immensely... ie. a full palang, fresh rumalleh, raised platform for Guru Sahib etc... countless other variations... Baba Ji used to take off his phag and clothes and place it on the ground whenever the Guru Granth Sahib Ji was being transported in "muddy areas"... he used to perform his DIWAN NOT ONLY BELOW the GURU GRANTH SAHIB JI, but ALSO BELOW THE SANGAT SINCE THAT IS WHERE THEIR CONCENTRATION should be... etc etc etc... Karmjeet spoke respectfully, so you should return / respect his opinions and follow a peaceful discussion... And yes... many new Gurdwara's have extended palangs... but I have seen too many Gurdwara's where it is cramped into the smallest place... but you will never see this at Nanaksar (thats the bottom line!)... 2) Vade Baba Ji ( Nand Singh Ji) did n't allow maya in any form to come in or near nanaksar . Matha tek of paise or money is not allowed in Nanaksar Gurudwara ( Jagraon). Its a shame today this maryada is violated in some nanaksar gurudwaras Please could you expand on this – what exactly is the problem with having money offered for the running of the Gurdwara Sahib, Ashram or Dharamshala? There are plenty of rehitnamas instructing Sikhs to offer daswand to the Guru. Historical sources also bear witness to the Gurus accepting “bheta†from their Sikhs – so please elucidate what the issue is here and why Nanaksar choose to differ on this point. Western ways influenced this point... this is simple, money yields curruption... please tell me a major Gurdwara where money hasn't been an issue (in and out of India)... I was born in England and am now living in the US... I have seen this everywhere... Gurdwara's popping up everywhere for PROFIT... so basically, Babaji knew this would happen... and Nanaksar like Amritsar, Hazoor Sahib etc was built SOLELY by the truest and most humble SEWA... the new Singh Sabha Gurdwara in Southall *HAVLOCK ROAD* I know the artictect who drew the plans... do you know he charged $40,000 for the plan??? Something which should've been done for free... (BTW, the original cost should've been around $10,000)... So, dont offer MONEY, off SEWA!... if you see a broken PIPE... fix it, dont give money and expect someone else too... when I send SEWA to NANAKSAR my grandfather does SOMETHING with the money, since it doesnt make any sense to just place it in soem Jathedars hands... so yeah, thats the original idea... Langar is a key component of the Sikh Dharamshala / Gurdwara since inception, why does Nanaksar impose this restriction? If tea is permitted for preparation, then now is langar a violation of maryada – moreover, according to Karamjeet this is the true maryada, so by implication you are suggesting that the langar maryada, popularised by Guru Amar Das in particular is incorrect? Again, please elucidate why this is the case? Ok... i went to the Gurdwara this past weekend... and there were more people in the Langar hall than in front of the Guru Granth Sahib Ji... A Gurdwara isn't a $1 buffet... thus, Babaji stated that "if food arrives, the let it be in the sangats hands"... since people do not come to EAT, they come to PRAY first and that is the sole reason! Too many people nowadays go to the Gurdwara just to eat... listen carefully, you'll hear it everyday in the langar hall... "oh this sabji isnt good, this rotis dry, oh i need more roti"... And Yes... Sri Guru Amar Das Ji did stress a community kitchen... but not in lieu of our service towards the Guru Granth Sahib Ji... 4) Everything was made of mud and brick . and baba ji never made a permanent place for himself! And the point being? Besides, thesedays it is very common to find Nanaksar Gurdwaras all over the world – so what happened to the “true maryadaâ€? If this was the “true maryadaâ€, are you suggesting Karamjeet that Sikhs in India, UK, US etc etc today, not build Gurdwaras, but instead have make shift mud huts? Please explain… This was a personal thing of Babaji... his sole purpose while physically here was to carry out SEWA of the Guru Granth Sahib Ji... this shouldn't even be an issue... once again, your taking Karmjeets words out of context... also... a quick story... my grandfather remembers seeing huge SMOKE rising miles away while in Jagroan in the 40s... and straight away they knew Babaji was close by, so villiages upon villages used to run for miles to catch a glimpse of the most holiest saint! 5) behangams were not allowed to keep money with them , nor do they were allowed to have doors on their rooms . The only conclusions that can be drawn from this is that Nanaksar intrinsically view money as an evil and essentially “adharmic†yet there appears to be no shortage of Mercedes cars in the parking lots of their Gurdwaras or for the purposes of transporting the current Babas and secondly that clearly to keep an eye on the all-male celibate behangams, the doors need to be removed? If this is incorrect Karamjeet, please could you explain the real purpose of this point. No money... Vada Baba Ji and Baba ISHER SINGH JI MAHARAJ never touched money... why would they need it...? Thousands upon thousands used to follow them while they were moving between villiages... I have a video of Baba Isher Singh Ji with at least 100k people following behind... on the way to each village the sangat/behangams would have countless stops where they would be offered food, water and other sewa... things arn't like they are nowadays... everyday was a Nagar Kirtan-esque scene... 6) there is no nishan sahib becus baba ji used to say that where there is a nishan sahib it means that dera has the proper provision for langar for the sangat , but here the langar is not guarnteed . it only depends on Nirankar if he sends the food . if he sends it be happy if not then again be happy . I cannot understand the logic of Sikhs not being able to “guarantee†langar? Even amongst the diaspora Sikhs where one would be hard pressed to find an Amritdhari or even a Keshdhari Singh, such as in the predominantly Jat settlement of early Victoria BC, Yuba City and others, Langar was one thing that was guaranteed without fail – despite what criticisms we may level at the “pioneer†Sikhs, even they as “monae-konae†as some would say, kept this ‘guarantee’ alive to the best of their abilities – why is it that an (up)sampradha such as a Nanaksar, professing powerful lineages of various Sants and Babas (some even claiming to have been Ram Chandar and reincarnations of other Hindu Deities) cannot ‘guarantee’ Langar? Nirankar has provided us with the world in which we live, Nirankar allows us the means by which to function and live, of course Nirankar will send food – it’s a question if ‘we’ are willing to part with our ‘hard-earned’ cash (yes maya!) which we mistake as our own and circulate it for the purposes of the Langar – if there is no langar no need to blame Nirankar, blame ourselves!!! Ok, about the Nishan Sahib... the Nishan Sahib no longer represents SIKHI (completely) when it is the flag for political parties (SGPC / Akaali Daal etc)... anyway, it is more of a political thing... Harminder Sahib and the Akal Thakth have a very different Maryada (read about it!)... Harminder Sahib has a two foot Nishan Sahib... does that mean they are doing something wrong? Also, Baba Isher Singh Ji Maharaj used to say that "if there is a gold plated dome, 100 feet in the air that you can see miles away, why would you need a Nishan Sahib to show that a Guru is here".... (Excuse my quote, im sure i didnt quote it directly!) 7) there is no custom of gaddi in nanaksar . everybody is sevadar of Guru ji . every seva is done in the name of Guru Granth Sahib not in the name of any person . this ws mainly during baba ji's time . now there have been changes and its shame to say that current sevadars of nanaksar are drifting away from the true purpose and bringing a bad name to nanaksar! Custom of Gaddi??? I'm not sure what that means... however... Besides some amazing people who DID SEWA of either VADA BABAJI or Baba Isher Singh Ji Maharaj... there arn't really any true NANAKSARIA's around... my grandfather recieved Darshan from Baba Nand Singh Ji Maharaj when he was a child, and was a sevadaar of Baba Isher Singh Maharaj... today, my grandfather is 80 yrs + and countless seviks have passed away... thus, few know the true magnificence of the heritage of Nanaksar... and anyway, when Baba Isher Singh Ji Maharaj left for his heavenly abode... all the fake sangat started bickering amongst themselves about who was 'next.' This is ridicolous because no living being could ever comprehend how amazing these two most heavenly SANTS where... and Vada Babaji said his "distaar" would be passed onto Baba Isher Singh Ji Maharaj, who didn't pass it on to anyone... ANYWAY... When Baba Isher Singh Ji Maharaj left for his heavenely abode, the sangat ran to see who NANAKSAR was left to... and when they went to the registry, they saw (to their complete amazement) that it had been left to "Sri Guru Granth Sahib Ji"... now, that just shows how MAYA had no form whatsoever at Nanaksar! Yes, this is a shame – one can frequently find pictures of Babas placed alongside Guru Sahib in many Nanaksar Gurdwaras and homes (i.e. one indirectly bows to the photo as well – an act not inspired by Gurmat). ^^^^ That is not a shame at all... everyone at NANAKSAR sleeps on the floor, the only raised platform is for the GURU GRANTH SAHIB JI... VADA BABAJI AND BABAJI both used to "SLEEP" on the floor... the sevadaars today sleep on the floor... and they always will... If you are trying to understand more about this Maryada, then please voice your questions, but if you are trying to derail this great legacy, then please show some respect, since I will not get into a debate with you, since we both do not have the time... Thanks for taking the time out to read... BHUL CHAK MAF! 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
karmjeet Posted October 10, 2005 Author Report Share Posted October 10, 2005 first of all who told you that u start building mud huts ? If anyone wanted to live with Baba Nand Singh ji , he had to live according to his maryada . If any one don't like this maryada , who cares ? just keep following wtever u like .anything u think is right go ahead with that . if u like akj no prob , if u like sgpc no prob , ddt no problem . just do wtever u like . did i tell you to start following nanaksar . and by the way nanaksar u see today is not wt it was in baba jis time . so stop comparing them . i know a lot of evils have crept in today . and i don't care abt tht . just follow the main hukam of baba ji . to do paths , naam abhyaas , guru darshan , seva , dassan nohan do kamai . i can't explain the personal life of a Brahmgyani . y he didn't like money . y he didn't like pakke houses etc etc .. i don't care abt these things . acc. to me the quintessesnce of everything (gurbani , maryadas . sampardas etc. etc . ) is to start japping naam and achieve our goal . 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Niranjana Posted October 11, 2005 Report Share Posted October 11, 2005 Dear Slugz and Karamjeet, Gur Fateh Parvaan Hove! Thanks for both your responses, I’m glad to see a U-turn in some of your assertions. Firstly, allow me to reassure you that I have no issue with Nanaksar and the lifestyle of Baba Nand Singh Maharaj – in fact, Baba Jee’s jeevan is an inspiration to many people. Secondly, the whole aspect of ‘having respect’ and ‘oh, I’m not asking you to follow our Maryada, you can do what you like’ is plain bull – have a look at what you have written again. Karamjeet on this thread and many others before it has repeated echoed the view that Nanaksar is the ONLY “TRUE Maryada†– this is no different from what we hear in the claims from the AKJ (yet they simultaneously claim to support the Akal Thakt), the DDT and Nihangs (on the basis of flawed lineages) and just about every other segment of the Diaspora. Karamjeet’s u-turn is really interesting, he now states “If anyone wanted to live with Baba Nand Singh ji , he had to live according to his maryada†– again, I’ll clarify, I have no objection to the maryada of Baba Nand Singh Maharaj, it’s what his over zealous chelas do with it and market it as, which is what I’m questioning. Baba Nand Singh was a remarkable Sikh Saint and there is no doubting this, however Karamjeet the question is not if I like his maryada, but why people like you feel the need to substitute Baba Jee’s maryada in place of Guru Sahib’s maryada? [Note: You have stated, it’s “his†maryada]. Alongside this we have all these claims concerning Baba Jee’s supposed reincarnation of Guru Nanak Dev Ji and the whole host of mistruths that have been subsequently manufactured by overzealous chelas. If you honestly intended to present the “true maryada†of Baba Nand Singh’s lifestyle, then clearly state this at the outset and stop deriding other Sikh institutions because they are not identical to your own. Slugz, thanks for coming back to me on my questions, however I feel you miss the point here – I’m not questioning Baba Jee, it is the practices that Nanaksar chelas today advocate as being the ‘true’ maryada – Karamjeet is not the only one to have done this, there are plenty of cases where Nanaksar Sangat feel the need to make themselves out to be THE only acceptable format of Sikhi – again I’ll reiterate, I have no objection to variations in maryada at AKJ, DDT, Nanaksar, Nishkam Sevak Jatha, Nihangs, Nirmalas, etc etc – the fundamentals of Sikh Rehit are set out in the Sikh Rehit Maryada, which provides enough flexibility for all these variations to co-exist, however not a day goes by, when one doesn’t here about “paji, you should only take Amrit from the AKJ, they have the puratan maryada – take yours again, you’ll feel the difference!!!†or in the present case “only Nanaksar maintains the true maryadaâ€â€¦â€we keep sochum in the same manner as Sri Ram Chander’s time…†and so on. But to touch on your comments: -Thanks for the account concerning the time during Baba Jee’s preaching. Interestingly on a side note, this is also true of Baba Ram Singh Namdhari (re: having Guru Sahib taken out of cupboards and brought out in parkash) – just a same that his modern day chelas cannot continue his desired action today. <<Karmjeet spoke respectfully, so you should return / respect his opinions and follow a peaceful discussion... >> I have no intention to not have a peaceful discussion, however it is Karamjeet you has repeatedly on this forum, expressed views that clearly indicate that he considers only Nanaksar Gurdwaras to have any form of Sikhi left and all others are plain wrong. Do a search and one can see this for themselves. Like you, I acknowledge the divine mission of Baba Jee, but when one points out the blatant goings-on in Nanaksar today which fall well outside the realms of Gurmat, then everyone is quick to jump onto the “no one is perfect†bandwagon – well that’s my point, so quit harassing non-Nanaksarias about their maryadas [bottom line]. - I hear your argument concerning the money donations (re: “western ways influenced this point... this is simple, money yields corruption), however your point is a little far fetched. As is widely known and accepted even amongst Nanaksar circles, the movement is split today and much in the way of corruption has occurred here as well, particularly in certain branches (re: Vancouver “Baba Jee†and the Casino and the infamous Paedophile “Baba Jeeâ€). The bottom line here is custom of giving daswand to the Gurughar has been in place since Guru Sahib’s time – agreed that issues have arisen subsequently in the way this is managed, why not attack the root cause (which is not money donations) and educate people – surely all those sampat paths and malas should be enough to clear people’s mind of selfish notions when it comes to money? The same is the case for Langar – whether “some†people today start bickering about what tastes good and what doesn’t is irrelevant, this is the Maryada of Guru Sahib – again address the root cause (people’s attitudes) not ban the maryada of Guru Sahib. I agree with Baba Jee,â€if food arrives, the let it be in the sangats hands" and this is precisely what my initial example illustrated, however some zealous Nanaksar chelas today have sought to claim that not having a regular langar at the Gurdwara Sahib is the “true maryada†– on what basis??? These arguments you present are using the exact same logic that anti-Sant supporters use today (have a look at Tapoban, where people who should know much better openly slander Baba Jee on account of modern day Nanaksar Chelas) – their argument is not too different from yours: Modern ways have led people to worship Sants, and many Babas are corrupt so let’s ban all Sants and Babas – rather like your treatment of Langar and the Golak. As per the final points, even you finally concede that “things aren’t like they are nowadays…†– which should address just about every other point as does your comment “... there arn't really any true NANAKSARIA's around...“ In conclusion, I have no reason or desire to “derail†any legacy of Baba Nand Singh Maharaj, ultimately the message of Baba Jee is no different to any respected Sikh Leader, to seek the charan of Guru Maharaj through Simran, Paath and Seva. What is not acceptable is the repeated notions by various groups within the Sikh Diaspora to claim themselves to be the only legitimate form of Sikhi today, particularly when they go as far as targeting existing Amritdharis to ‘retake’ their Amrit from their institution – this is what has frequently weakened the ekta of the Panth. Gur Fateh! Niranjana. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted October 11, 2005 Report Share Posted October 11, 2005 Thanks for the update Neo, as you do "lean towards nirmale sampardhi as whole" perhaps you could continue the 101 Discussion on them where there remain many questions concerning their origins and practices, since you'll be best placed to assess those? there already has been enough threads on nirmale and their orgins and practices in forum- tsingh and lalleshvari have tried their best to answer queries of sangat. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Niranjana Posted October 11, 2005 Report Share Posted October 11, 2005 From what I can see, TSingh has given them a good stab, everyone else is silent on the topic - perhaps you pick up the loose ends as the remaining 'nirmala' representative, particularly as any commentary from Lalleshvari is largely unavailable following his departure. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted October 11, 2005 Report Share Posted October 11, 2005 I am not nirmala representative.. i lean towards bhai dya singh sub branch of nirmale's. There is difference between leaning towards a certain samparda and representating one. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Niranjana Posted October 11, 2005 Report Share Posted October 11, 2005 How does one "lean" towards a sampradha? Either you have taken initiation into the sampradha or you haven't - just because someone is intellectual or perhaps well read on Sanskrit and Vedanta doesn't make a Nirmala surely? 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fatehsingh Posted October 11, 2005 Report Share Posted October 11, 2005 >> -Thanks for the account concerning the time during Baba Jee’s preaching. Interestingly on a side note, this is also true of Baba Ram Singh Namdhari (re: having Guru Sahib taken out of cupboards and brought out in parkash) – just a same that his modern day chelas cannot continue his desired action today.<< What is this supposed to mean? Safe keeping of Sri Aad or Dasam Guru Granth Sahib on shelves was not the problem then nor is the problem now. The problem was and is the ignorance of the Gurbani. I've never heard or read anywhere from any Namdhari sources that Satguruji told people to do 'Parkash' of the Granth Sahibs for the sake of doing Parkash and bowing down/collecting money. The Sikhs were ordered to recite Gurbani and memorize it by heart as much as possible. Please check your sources. God Bless. Fateh Singh 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
karmjeet Posted October 12, 2005 Author Report Share Posted October 12, 2005 this is my belief , shardha , love and pyaar for Baba Nand Singh ji that makes me believe that maryada taught by him was 100% complete. Because a tyagi sant like Baba ji was never born before and will not be born again . SO much kamai and tapasya , even the king of this age kalyug had to bow before his kamai . i don't say he was reincarnation of guru nanak . but certainly his kamai made him one with guru nanak . "tohi mohi mohi tohi " thhts y people had darshan of him as guru nanak . there r many examples from our history when certain sikhs beacme one with guru , and doing their darshan was equal to doing darshan of guru ji . its nothing new baba jis maryada , i like it very much , i don't know y , but i just do i just like it . other sampardas are good too , no prob , they r all good but i like this one better . bhul chuk maaf 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
x_suman_x Posted October 12, 2005 Report Share Posted October 12, 2005 Fateh! LOOK there is no point having a controversy over such a problem! You should belief what ever as long as you know it is true and no one can can violate it and even if they do you have a STRONG! reply I perosnally belief that that real maryada if the Siri Guru GRANTH SAHIB JEE. this is hwere you can get the TRUE answers to life. These maryada have been put into place so that sikhs as one don't do nothing wrong. WE SHOULD GET ALONG AND NOT VIOLATE EACH OTHERS VIEW, WE SHOULD FIRSTLY STOP OTHER RELIGIONS FROM CORRUPTING OUR RLIGION I.E RSS! PLEASE BHAIN JIS STOP FIGHTING. GURFATEH! 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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