Eating meat

[Indian]

I have searched through all the information regarding Sikhism but could not find anything relating to eating meat. Being South Indian I am a strict vegetarian.

A Sikh person that I work with says that eating meat is okay in Sikhism.

But I cant for the life of me eat any kind of meat. I come from a family of fishermen back in Kerala but thats were it stops, we dont eat the fish but we do make our living off it.

[Guest]

AMRIK - GURU JI SAID THAT "WHO ARE WE TO ARGUE WAT IS MEAT AND WHAT IS NOT?.... U BREATH IN AIR - THE AIR HAS TINY ORGANISMS IN IT - U DRINK WATER - IT CONTAINS TINY ORGANISMS IN THERE TOO - DOES THIS MEAN U STOP BREATHING AND DRINKING WATER????.... GURU JI TOLD US NOT TO ARGUE ABOUT WHAT IS MEAT AND WHAT IS NOT"

ITS EXPLICITLY STATED THAT U SHUD NOT EAT JHUTKA MEAT - WHICH IS BLEEDING A ANIMAL SLOWLY - THE WAY MUSLIMS PREPARE MEAT

BUT IT IS NOT STATED WHETHER ANY OTHER TYPES OF MEAT CAN BE EATEN - OK YEH MILK DOES COEM FROM A COW - BUT DO U KILL A COW TO GET ITS MILK??? NO

THE WAY I SEE IT IS - GOD RESIDES IN EVERYTHING - ALL ANIMALS SOULS HAVE SOME PART OF WAHEGURU IN THEM

BUT DOES THIS ALSO MEAN TAHT PLANTS HAVE GOD IN THEM TOO - COS THEY ARE LIVIN TOO?..... IN THIS CASE DO WE STOP EATIN VEGETABLES TOO???

SEE THERES ALLOT OF SIDES TO THIS ARGUEMENT - BUT AS GURU JI SAID - WE SHOULD NOT ARGUE ABOUT WHAT IS MEAT AND WHAT IS NOT -

[SAadmin]

neo - i wanna know ur view on this - do u think its right to eat non jhutka meat???

personally im a vegetarian - no fish - no egg - no meat

milk n dairy products i eat

no way.. non-jhatka is when you actually torturing the animal and its slowly gettin killed... according to the recincrnation being has to go through 8.4 million species of rebirth than actually born as human.. imagine that happening to you in ur next life...

i wouldnt eat non-jhatka...i wouldnt eat no meat at the first place... all though if i be nihang i ll do jhatka of goat... because most of the nihangs beleive that if you do jhatka of goat then goat actually will be born as nihang in the next life....that doesnt mean any nihang can do that.. you have to be very spirtual nihang in order to do that...

i wouldnt eat anything because everything counts ...even if you kill a ant...that is written by akal-purkh.. vaheguroooo

[Gurmukh]

Waheguru Ji Ka Khalsa, Waheguru Ji Ki Fateh!

I have read all the posts, but what I see is that we are just stating what we have read from these modern books, instead we need to research these topics through old granths that are accepted by the Panth.

Sikhs are not allowed to eat meat. There is a lot of historical evidence that backs this. Here is just some of the evidence:

1) The Hukamnama of Guru Hargobind Saheb Ji which has already been mentioned.

2) During the time of Guru Arjan Dev ji, it was brought to his notice that some of the Sikhs have started taking meat, despite the teachings of all the previous four Gurus prohibiting it. He issued a Hukamnama to all Sikhs reminding them about the vegetarian tradition of the Gurus and the Sikhs. He stated that all the Gurus have preached vegetarianism and strictly prohibited taking of meat, fish, chicken and eggs as well as sarab (liquor) and tobacco. This Hukumnama is still available in its original form.

3) An authentic letter written by Banda Singh Buhadur which stated Sikhs must not consume meat or alcohal.

4) A widely quoted Mugal historian, Mohsin Fani, who spent some time with the Guru has recorded in his book Dabistan-e-Mazahib (School of Religions) that Guru Arjan Dev made a special proclamation:

"eating of meat is forbidden among those who follow Guru Nanak."

5) Sahib Sri Guru Gobind Singh ji's "UPDESH" to Bhai Daya Singh ji which is mentioned in "SUDHARAM MARAG GRANTH" :

"One who does not Steal, Commit adultery , Slander anyone , Gamble , Eat meat or drink wine will be liberated in this very life (i.e. Jeewan Mukt)".

6) From the Janam Sakhi:

Gou bheans ateh murgian hai haiwan garib,tin par shuri haram hai khavan tenah palit.

Guru Nanak Saheb Ji is saying - killing of cows buffalos, hens, is considered haram.

7) All of these major Jathebandis in the Panth do not allow their members to eat meat:

a) Damdami Taksal – Bhai Mani Singh Ji

Damdami Taksal – Baba Deep Singh Ji

c) Akhand Kirtan Jatha

d) Baba Deep Singh Jatha – Nihangs

e) Nanak Dal Jatha – Nihangs

8) Some hymns from Guru Granth Saheb Ji:

a) They (the truest of the true) burn away the bonds of the world, And eat a simple diet of grain and water. (467)

"Bed Kateb Kaho Mat Jhoothhay, jhoothhaa jo Na Bichaarey. Jo Sabh Meh Ek Khudai Kahat Ho, Tio Kio Murghi Maarey" (Panna 1350)

Translation:

Do not call various religious texts false. False is one who gives no thought to their contents. If you consider God is in all, then why do you slaughter the chicken (i.e. life?)

c) Jey "Ratt" lageey kapra, jama hoi palit, Jey Ratt peevey manava, ta kyo nirmal cheet.â€

Translation:

If blood touches a cloth, it becomes unfit for use; If blood (or meat) is consumed by a human being, how can his heart be pure.

These are just a few examples, there are many more if one wishes to take the time out and research it.

One more thing!!!

I am pretty sure that someone is going to bring up the shabad:

"Mass Mass kar Murakh Jhagarray"

So I would just like to take a minute to speak about this shabad too. In that hymn, there is a line which reads:

"AbhaKh(i) Bhakhay Bhakh Taj Chhoday Aandh Guru Jin Kera ||2||25||"

Translation:

Those whose Guru is blind, leave the truly edible (Bhakh) foods and eat the unedible/undesirable (Abhakh).

(i)Baba Gurbachan Singh Ji Khalsa of the Bhindranwala Jatha, a well respected scholar of Gurbani interpreted "Abhakh" to mean “Meat/Eggs/ Alcohol / Drugs, etc.â€

To those who claim that the Guru did this or that, I humbly request that you do some more research before you make posts. I see most people just putting statements from modern books, instead you should take the time out and do your own research on these topics.

Please!!! I request that you do not just start beleiving what these books are saying about our great father, the Guru. We should not have to rely on these books, we must put the time in to fully research these topics ourselves. I hope this helps. I am going to be away for the weekend, so I will not be able to respond if anyone has further questions.

Waheguru Ji Ka Khalsa, Waheguru Ji Ki Fateh!

[Guest]

Yea i forgot to add that.. thanks steeles

[KAAL]

This isnt being radical or being hippy this is sikhi, and there r other things u can get high on no herbs no drinks, no concoctions,

this thing is pure, its got no side affects (other then being addictive), u cant ger overdose, its amazing, gives u this mad buzz. its excellent.

[sevak]

I have searched through all the information regarding Sikhism but could not find anything relating to eating meat. Being South Indian I am a strict vegetarian.

A Sikh person that I work with says that eating meat is okay in Sikhism.

But I cant for the life of me eat any kind of meat. I come from a family of fishermen back in Kerala but thats were it stops, we dont eat the fish but we do make our living off it.

Get over that **Ego** on eating meat. Dont goto extreme. If you are vegetarian its good.. but dont get soo attached to it that you are not able to see the full truth

regarding eat of meat. What is sin and what is not sin? Sin really is in the mind. Banda Singh Bahadur was a vegetarian, bairagi.. but then inorder to break his attachment to this "meat" issue.. he ordered that the goat/sheep should be come.

I agree that as long as there is cheese and milk there is no need to eat meat, but one need not goto extreme ends. For example warriors should eat meat because they have to fight. What is needed that animal rights shouldnt be abused. Everything must be done in balance.

I am mainly a vegetarian because I can not see the bad treatment of animals here. I will even stop giving up eating eggs, because my conscience doesnt make me feel good about eating eggs.

So as long as I have milk and cheese I probably wont eat meat, but if someone eats meat it doesnt mean that person cant get to God, that would be an incorrect assumption.

In Africa they can not grow there vegetables, so they have to hunt and each time they kill they apologise to the animal , pray to there gods or whatever and they thank the animal for its flesh.

In reality it is the mind that distinguishes between meat and non-meat. What is meat and what is non-meat to someone who is absorbed in God. You can put food in his mouth .. He wont know what you put in his mouth... but he will offer it to the God in his stomach. He wont think "I m eating".

Well its alright. I use to be very stringent on not eating meat, but later I realized that the argument over eating meat or not-eating meat is fruitless and in the same way is the argument over eggs and not eggs. It totally falls down on the individual.

This is also one type of attachment to dualism .."meat" and "non-meat" I agree one shouldnt eat meat.. but one should give up this type of attachment : "that meat is sin".

In Anand Sahib, Guru Sahib describes how sastras and simritees keep distinguishing between good and bad , sin and clean.. but they are not able to recognise the truth. In the same way we are distinguishing between "meat" and "none-meat"... and we are not able to recognise the truth which is beyond these things.

_________________

Waheguru Naam Jahaaz Hain.. Charey so utray paar

[sevak]

If you perceive god abides in all beings, THEN WHY KILL AN ANIMAL???

God is in the animal but is not the God. It is not a matter of getting as many cow heads or goat-heads. as i said i am myself a vegetarian. Where here is parshada and dal.. there is no need for meat, but meat can be used if there is no food available.

Anything that is done with pure intentions and not with bad intentions or self-interest, or for self-fullment is alright.

[sevak]

If you perceive god abides in all beings, THEN WHY KILL AN ANIMAL???

thats what guru granth sahib ji teaches us right...if you cant see god in all, you can see at all...

You are seeing only one side of God and ignoring the other Jesus ate fish. Buddha ate pork and there are many other sants who ate meat and many other god-realized sants who didnt eat meat. It all depends on the individual and is not something that is universal rule.

[girlUK]

ahaaaa i have found it...heres the link to scientific as well as the sikh ideology as to why meat is not advisable...its so interesting:

http://www.gurbani.org/webart18.htm

[Guest]

Stop Fighting over pitty issues.. Do whatever you feel like doing.. just make sure you are an icon of guru gobind singh's khalsa (Fearless)

just focus more on granths... vaheguroo kirpa karagaaie... saunouou morkha nouoou guru granth sahib ji, dasam granth sahib ji vargaie granth saadaie morouo haan....SARRA JOSH, HOSH,GYAN,PARMATAMA DA MILAAP UTHAOUOU MILLANA!!!!!!!

[K4ur]

u know this ite sound a bit thick and horrible but here we gooo....

I think bak-in-the-day, ppl see eating all dat meat as a luxury food. Maybe even they get somme sense of superioroity in eating it, therfore making them feel biger -aka known in basic Sikhi principles as EGO!

They serve it at social occasions so, is it not seen as a masterful food... ?and is seen is better than any other sabJi....!!!

Its kinda sick in a weird way but if this is what it is all about then surley sumthing has to be done. You can never tell sum1 to stop eating it, its goto to stop from within them/by themselves....

[Ideal Singh]

Steel Bangle :

Sri Guru Granth Sahib prohibits eating animal flesh in clear-cut and unambiguous language in a number of places:

"Jee Badhoh So Dharam Kar Thaapoh, Adharam Kaho Kat Bhai.

Anpas Ko Munwar Kar Thaapoh, Kaa Ko Kaho Kasaaee." (Panna 1103)

You kill animals and call it religion (Rahit); then what indeed is irreligion (Kurahit)? Even then you

consider yourself as a sage of sages; then whom to call a butcher?

"Baba Hore Khanna Khushi Khuaar.

Jit Khaadey Tan Peeriay, Man Mey Chaley Vikaar" (Panna 196)

O Baba! All other foods (except the Naam) create trouble in the body and fill the mind with evil.

"Bed Parhey Mukh Mitthee Baani.

Jeeaan KUHAT Na Sangey Paraanee" (Panna 201)

He (Pandit) recites the Vedas very sweetly, but he does not hesitate to kill life.

"Abhakhya Ka Kuthha Bakra Khanaa.

Choukay Upar Kisey Na Jaanaa" (Panna 472)

They eat the meat obtained while uttering the unspeakable word (referring to Qalima of the Muslims

which the hindus considered as unspeakable) and allow none to enter their kitchen square.

"Bed Kateb Kaho Mat Jhoothhay, jhoothhaa jo Na Bichaarey.

Jo Sabh Meh Ek Khudai Kahat Ho, Tio Kio Murghi Maarey" (Panna 1350)

Do not call various religious texts false. False is one who gives no thought to their contents. If you

consider God is in all, then why you slaughter the chicken (i.e. life?)

"Rojaa Dharey, Manaavey Mlah, Svaadat Jee Sanghaarey.

Aapaa Deldi Avar Nahin Dekhey, Kaahey Kow Jhakh Maarey" (Panna 1375)

You keep fasts (i.e. religious acts) to appease God. At the same time you slay life for your relish. This

utter selfishness is nothing but empty or nonsensical talk.

"Kabir Jee Jo Maareh Jor Kar, Kaahtey Heh Ju Halaal.

Dafter Daee Jab Kaadh Hai, Hoegaa Kaun Havaal" (Panna 1375)

Whosoever slays life by force and call it sanctified; What will be his fate when he will be called to account for it in His Court?

"Kabir Khoob Khanna Khichri, Ja Meh Amrit Lon Heraa

rotee Kaarney Galaa Kataavey Kon" (Panna 1374)

Blessed is the simple of food of rice mixed with salt; Who would risk his head to be slain hereafter,

for the meat one eats here?

"Kabir Bhaang, Mach Iiii Surapaan Jo Jo Praanee Khahey.

Tirath, Barat, Nem Kiaye Te Sabhay Rasaatal Jahey" (Panna 1376)

Whosoever eats flesh, fish, etc. and takes wine and hemp, all his religious acts will go to waste.

If we all look into the meaning of all the Tuks quoated above, in conjunction with the complete Shabad respectively, we shall find that taking a single Tuk from entire shabad, takes away the real essence of the Shabad. This is total mis-Interpreataion of Gurbani. The most of the English translation of the Tuks/lines quoted above is highly un-intellectual and inadequate.

I have looked into the meanings most of these shabads from SGGS. But you all would be surprised to know after reading the entire Shabads, these shabads hardly mean the way being suggested above and certainly not against eating meat specifically.

Here is a link to a very precious website

http://www.gurugranthdarpan.com

I think you must be aware of this website which contains pagewise translation of SGGS by Prof Sahib Singh Ji.

Just take your precious time and read the complete shabads with proper translation of each words and tuks and only then decide whether these shabads have any relation to topic of eating meat.

By taking a single line from the Shabad we are ignorantly dis-respecting the shabad of the Guru and their true meaning.

And one thing more as quoated below :

"Baba Hore Khanna Khushi Khuaar.

Jit Khaadey Tan Peeriay, Man Mey Chaley Vikaar" (Panna 196)

O Baba! All other foods (except the Naam) create trouble in the body and fill the mind with evil.

These lines have been taken from a shabad not on Panna no. 196, but it is on Panna no. 16.

Bhul Chuk Maaf

[randip singh]

Gawd Blimey,

We've done this topic to death on sikh-history.com............................meat eaters and vegetarians are pole apart on this issue.........this thread started off with fools wrangles over flesh.................................and I think it needs repeating.............I've stopped debating the issue............because it is to emotive and both sides cannot see the others view....................there are very few who can.................we are not Guru's so who are we to say what is right or wrong....................do what you think is right according to Bani..........there will always be arguments over interpretaion.......................I don't think anyone has a right to tell another person what level of a life form should be consumed..............unless it's another human being..............however even that has been done in extreme situations.....................just think about what I've said and try to be a better Sikh yourself before telling others what they should do................ :nihung:

[Aman Singh]

Only animal eats animal.

[Guest]

Only animal eats animal.

Wrong!

Birth and death are subject to the Command of the Lord's Will; through His Will we come and go.

Eating and drinking are pure, since the Lord gives nourishment to all.

Guru Granth Sahib, page 472.

"The tigers, hawks, kites and falcons, them the Lord causes to eat grass. Who eats grass, them He causes to eat meat. This way of life He can set agoing." (Guru Nanak, Slok, pg. 144)

[randip singh]

I see there is no reasoning with some people.......no reasoning with some people...............most of the human race must be animals do doubt............

[Aman Singh]

only animals eat animal

A lion, tiger can't eat grass, cuz their teeth are only able to eat meat. A cow , sheeps and goats can't eat meat, cuz their teeth were made to eat grass only. If animals know what they are required to eat then why not human understands , what they should eat. Human teeths are only able to eat what ever grow on earth. Not what lives on earth.

[Ideal Singh]

A lion, tiger can't eat grass, cuz their teeth are only able to eat meat. A cow , sheeps and goats can't eat meat, cuz their teeth were made to eat grass only. If animals know what they are required to eat then why not human understands , what they should eat. Human teeths are only able to eat what ever grow on earth. Not what lives on earth.

Have you ever seen Discovery Channel? Recently there was a programme where they were showing two small lion cubs growing in a separate place for experimention purposes. Now what was the experiment they were only served only vegitarion food like grass or other vegitarian stuff and you know what they were slowly habituated to eat vergitarion only and after period of time simply resisted eating non-vergitarion stuff. So this proves that eating habits are developed accordinly to you surroundings.

And One more fact:: Have you ever checked your denture structure (teeth autonomy). Just do it right now... go to your dressing table and have a look at your denture and you would be surprised to realize that there are four teeth which are very sharp in edges and are longer than the rest of the teeth and resemble with those of lions. What do they convey? They prove that man has always been habituted to survive on any of the two options available be it vegitarian or non-vergitarian.

look at these example and read the whole text:

http://mistupid.com/health/teeth.htm

Just take your mouse on the adult teeth and roll it to Canine teeth... there are four of them and just check this with mirror. These are what I talking about. :twisted:

Have a close look at this and then raise questions.

Regards

[randip singh]

Just take your mouse on the adult teeth and roll it to Canine teeth... there are four of them and just check this with mirror. These are what I talking about. :twisted:

Have a close look at this and then raise questions.

Regards

This argumant can be raised for the otherside too..........pne could say we are designed to eat meat to.....................Guru Nanak Dev Ji was talking sense when he said fools wrangle over flesh..............you should worry about being a good Sikh rather than what people eat.........................this argument is a waste of time and it will only cause anatagonism and bad feeling.....mark my words...........................

I keep an open mind and I have not been convinced totally one way or the other...............I have friends who are vegetarians and they do not force their views on others.............same for the meat eaters..............I suggest you do the same........... 8)

[Aman Singh]

Just take your mouse on the adult teeth and roll it to Canine teeth... there are four of them and just check this with mirror. These are what I talking about.

Have a close look at this and then raise questions.

Regards

Are u trying to prove that we are animals. Well i am not , but about you. It doesn't mean if we have canine teeth, that its to eat meat. Yah, one thing more.. God has given strenth, power and shape to some animlas (who only eat meat) so they can pray other animals , to get thier food. On the other hand their are some animlas who can't attack on other animls becacuse they are not in that shape and power. They only eat grass and stuff like that. Now come to humans, What kind of shape we are??? Wanna know the truth, then look what u eat everyday. U will find the out that ,what kind of person u are. Just a last thing, its not good to kill some one just for our tongue taste.

[Ideal Singh]

Dear Randip if you do not to debate the topic then just get out of this discussion. Do not participate, Okay. I am just giving my views and no forcing upon anyone, if you are incapable of countering them then just do not take refuge in Gurbani quotes. They are meant for more bigger issues that this topic. Be practical and then reply.

You are talking about "Maans Maans Kar Moorakh Jhagrdae..." But for God sake... Have you ever gone in depth to understand the whole meaning of this shabad. No ! No never!! Persons like you are just bent on twisting the lines of the Gurbani justify to propogate your theories.

Dear Aman Singh, just because we , the so called Humans, themselves categorized themselves to be called humans does mean that we are humans and they are animals. Who gave you the wisdom to downgrade their identity.

I will ofcourse continue later... busy right know...

[randip singh]

Aman Singh,

Sorry my friend, but if you wish to experiment on animals by giving vegetarian diets to cats, then that is up to you, but you are going against what nature intended, and remeber God designed nature.

Eating meat has nothing to do with taste buds. When I'm training I eat stuff like liver abd raw white eggs. They tase disgusting but are good for you. There are some nasty tasting vegetables like Karela's that people eat, because they are good for you. It does not come down to taste at all. If that were the case, you'd only have to give Chitay Choaly once to everyone and everyone would eat them.

I have heard the argument, that Vitamin B12 and amino acids from meat can make you more aggresive, but I would say that is more down to the individual than anything else and their ability to control Krodh.

Amans,

Do not claim to know me. You do not know what my aganda is. If there is one thing I do dislike it is ignorance, where arguments are presented for one side. I have observed the aggresive vegetarianism on many of the forums, and condemnation of meat eaters. Most of the worlds population eats meat, does that mean they are bad. In yout eyes probably yes, in my eyes no, because they are just different. I've heard all the arguments against and for, and there has not been a single convincing argument from the vegetarian camp. Destruction of life in one form or another is unavoidable. My scientific head tells me matter is not destroyed but takes up a diffferent form i.e converted. The pain argument is a non-starter, because it is all relative. Some plants even flesh. I just observe nature now for all it's various variations created by God and accept it, rather than trying to impose unatural values.

Incidently, have you seen the BBC Documentary Walking With Cavemen - scientists have proved if our ancestors had not eaten the marrow from bones, out brains would still be at the ape level. Maybe God made a mistake when our ancestors were doing this.

[Guest Javanmard]

As far as I know humans are animals as well but then again I can't ask everyone to stop relying on medieval notions of science!

there is no issue about meat in Sikhi. The response is simple:jhatka!!!

if you want to eat meat, then eat meat

if you don't want to, then don't

but never impose your values on others

[Hari]

Dear Randip you said:

When I'm training I eat stuff like liver abd raw white eggs. They tase disgusting but are good for you.

Stop this now :shock: Raw eggs and liver cause more damage than good.Raw eggs carry disease like salmonella, and you may end up becoming allergic to eggs!Eating raw eggs causes egg allergy, I'm not joking.Also, I think you'll notice that eating raw eggs causes excessive SMELLY flatulance

Poo, where did that smell come from! :?

LIVER: The liver is the processing factory of the body.Because of this, it contains many toxins, which it is in the process of sorting out and excreting.You are eating this junk?Liver has highly toxic levels of Vitamin A.Yes, that's right, Vitamin A is toxic in high levels.Liver is also the harbinger of the fluke worm and other infectious diseases.Don't eat liver please!

No, no, no, I wouldn't recommend these during your training.I recommend the following for building your body:

Fish, chicken, soya (soya has more protein than meat), daal, milk, and plenty of water!Remember, don't over do the protein, otherwise you''l become constipated and tired.

Check out: http://www.menshealth.com/cda/home/0,6922,s1-0-0-0-0,00.html for the latest diet and fitness advice for men.