Eating meat

[randip singh]

Hi Hari,

Thanks for the good advice.

Sorry about the raw egg white's, but good quality egg whites mixed up with milk seem OK....

Liver I have occaisionally, and is well cooked.

I generally eat a lot of vegetarian stuff. I don't recommend soya as I find that my body finds it difficult to assimilate.

but thanks for the advice.

[Aman Singh]

All right ,So u don't just eat meat for taste .. Well, then u should keep eating it if u think it will help to grow your body more better. I am not here to stop u eating meat .. u have lot of reason to eat meat. as i am having lot of reason to dont' eat. God Bless.

[Guest]

Gurfateh

Eating meat is as always an unresolved issue. I think it's a personal choice, although it depends on your spiritual growth. All the enlightened beings, and Sants in Sikhi I know of, have all been vegetarians, surely there is a reason for it, perhaps beyond our understanding. Some people are vegetarian due to health/medical reasons, others because it's a form of compassion, a by-product of non-violence.

I was reading Osho, and his views on vegetarianism, as he himself was one, and prohibited eating of meat in all of his Ashrams. I found what he said very interesting. He said when an animal is killed, it feels a great fear, a struggle for survival, and releases certain poisonous toxins into it's body. These are poisonous because they are caused by a negative emotion such as fear, and maybe in some cases anger. The body and mind are intricately and in a complex way related. When you ingest the meat, you are taking in all those poisonous toxins which will adversely affect the way you think, your state of mind, disrupt the natural balance. This cannot be helpful to your meditative process. Which is 'more' important? Having a great body or a state of mind which can help you meditate on Vaheguru more easily? This is perhaps why all the Sants I know of have been vegetarians in their lifetimes.

This does not mean we take this in a fanatical way, for example, Jain monks who are even afraid to breathe because in breathing many lives are killed. Very small lives are moving in the air. It is full of germs, very minute germs; you cannot see them with the naked eye.

People have used nonviolence against life. And nonviolence means such a deep love of life that you cannot kill: you love life so much that you will not like to hurt anybody. It is deep love, not rejection. Of course, in being alive a little violence is a must, but that is not violence, because you are not doing it willfully.

Only that is violence which you do willfully. If I am breathing, I am not breathing willfully. Breathing is going automatically, you are not breathing; you are not the doer. You try to stop it and then you will know. Just for a single second you can stop, and it comes rushing out or rushing in. It happens you are not responsible for it.

I found the following article on Vegetarianism, has some interesting views by well known vegetarians in history.

>>Vegetarianism: A Diet for the Spirit

by Annalisa & Giampiero Cara

To give up meat is not only a matter of health. It is above all a matter of love. Love for the animals and for the Earth, of course, but also for ourselves. For how can we expand our consciousness and understand the oneness of everything that exists if we remain indifferent to the killing of so many of our "little brothers"?

The greatest sages and enlightened beings in history have always recommended not to eat meat to people on the path of inner evolution. Let's see why.

A primary foundation of all great religions is compassion toward every living being. That's why killing is considered a major sin. In Christianity, the fifth commandment "Thou shalt not kill" has been interpreted as "Don't kill other human beings." In reality, its literal translation from ancient Hebrew would be "don't commit any kind of killing." That's why vegetarianism was originally a fundamental principle in Christianity, as well as in other great religions like Buddhism, Hinduism, Islamism and Judaism.

Today, most ministers of almost all these religions - with the notable exception of Buddhism (in part) and Hinduism - tolerate, and even encourage the killing of animals to eat their meat. But we should ponder on what the Buddha said in Dhammapada: "In the future, some fools will say that I gave permission to eat meat, and that I ate meat myself. But I have never permitted anyone to eat meat, and I never will, in any form, in any way and in any place. It is unconditionally prohibited to everybody."

The Buddha explained his unconditional prohibition with the fact that eating meat "stifles the seed of great compassion." And since God is perfect love and compassion, you must cultivate compassion in order to find him inside yourself.

"Why make other beings suffer when we try to avoid suffering ourselves?" the Buddha said. "If you can't control your mind in order to abhor the mere thought of killing, you won't be able to free yourself from the ties that bond you to life in this world. How can he, who seeks and hopes to learn how to free others, eat the meat of sentient beings?"

Also the Vedas say thousands of times that man shouldn't eat meat, because "one is worthy of salvation when he doesn't kill any living being." And doesn't eat it either. In fact, the Vedas say that it is necessary to abstain oneself from eating any kind of meat, because meat always implies killing, and it generates karmic bonds. "Whoever kills animals cannot find any pleasure in the message of Absolute Truth," conclude the Vedas.

According to the sacred scriptures of Hinduism, man should recognize the same vital principle in every living being. The Veda describe incarnations of God in various non-human forms, like the fish, the horse, the turtle and the wild boar.

Vegetarianism and the World Religions

In his inspiring book Food for the Spirit - Vegetarianism and the World Religions, professor Steven Rosen says that Vedic philosophy recognizes animals' capacity to reach a high spiritual state. This is a religious tradition that promotes not only vegetarianism, but also the spiritual equality of all living beings. Therefore, practicing vegetarianism means being aware that all living beings are equal in spiritual terms.

Also the Koran exalts Allah's compassion - in fact, the deity is also called al-Raham, or "infinitely merciful" - toward every living being He created, without exceptions. And the prophet Muhammad, who was himself a vegetarian and loved animals, wrote: "Whoever is good toward God's creatures is good toward himself."

As for Judaism, the diet prescribed for man in the Genesis is clearly the vegetarian one. God tells His people that their food will be every plant and every fruit that produces seeds. He also commands them not to eat meat and the life that runs through it, blood. In fact, the people of Israel were vegetarian for ten generations, from Adam to Noah.

After the Flood, which destroyed all vegetation, God gave His people temporary permission to eat meat. Then, to restore the vegetarian diet, when the Israelites left Egypt, God sent them manna, a vegetable that could feed them during the Exodus. But since the Israelites kept on asking insistently for meat, God gave them meat, accompanying it with a fatal pestilence that killed all who ate it.

In the New Testament, the teachings of Jesus Christ have been censored so much in the numerous translations and revisions of the Gospels that references to his compassion and his complete love for all living creatures have almost completely disappeared. In reality, Jesus didn't eat any kind of meat, in harmony with the teachings he received from the confraternity of the Essenes, of which he was a member.

In a John's Gospel handed down from the Essenes and from the Christian Churches in the East but denied by the Church of Rome, Jesus Christ is a prophet who teaches to refrain from any form of violence toward animals and explicitly forbids his disciples to eat meat. "Eat anything you find on God's table," he said. "Fruits from the trees, grains and vegetables from the fields, milk from the animals and honey from the bees. Any other food is the work of Satan and leads to sins, illnesses and death."

In fact, the first Christians were strictly vegetarian, as were the Fathers of the Church. Yet when Christianity became the official religion of the Roman Empire, during the Council of Nicaea the original Christian documents were radically altered to make them acceptable to the emperor Constantine, who didn't want to give up meat.

So, in order to convert him, the "correctors" nominated by ecclesiastic authorities eliminated any reference to not eating meat from the Gospels. For no less than nineteen times, they translated the original Greek term for "food" with the word "meat" and they chose the "loaves and fishes" version of Jesus' miracle over the one, contemporary to him, called "The multiplication of bread and fruit" (it must be said, anyway, that not even the fishes of the second version were real fishes, but a particular kind of "seaweed pancakes" very common among Jewish people at the time.) Therefore, even Constantine persecuted Christians, but only those who absolutely refused to eat meat.

Nevertheless, most Christian saints have been vegetarian, like the most famous of them all, Saint Francis from Assisi, who loved all living creatures and ate exclusively bread, cheese and vegetables.

Vegetarians in History

Many other great men in history have chosen the vegetarian way. In the VI century b.C., for example, the great Greek philosopher and initiate Pythagoras preached the strictest vegetarianism among his followers. They abhorred killing in any form and abstained from eating "animate beings," in order to reach a state of purity and asceticism. In that state, considered the highest degree of initiation, they thought humans could free themselves from the prison of the body and regain their original divine condition.

Pythagoras also thought that, as long as humans continued to kill animals, they would keep on killing each other.

In Plato's Republic, another great philosopher from Greece, Socrates, says that the ideal diet for men in the city of the future will be based on bread, olives, cheese, onions, legumes, figs, berries, acorns and a little wine. Eating meat, he says, is the main cause of illnesses, but also of wars, because cattle-breeding requires much more space than agriculture. Therefore, a city may be forced to invade neighboring countries.

In the II century, the Greek historian Plutarch wrote that people who wanted to eat meat should be able to kill the animals themselves without arms and eat them alive, like lions and other fierce animals use to do.

Leonardo da Vinci, the Italian Renaissance vegetarian genius, complained that human bodies were increasingly becoming "the tombs of the animals." And he also prophesied that "one day the killing of an animal will be considered no less sinful than the killing of a man."

In the 17th century, Jean Jacques Rousseau, the famous French philosopher of the so-called Age of Enlightenment observed that meat-eating animals were more violent and cruel than the herbivorous ones. Therefore, he contended that the vegetarian diet could make men less aggressive and thus more peaceful.

In the following century, the American politician and scientist Benjamin Franklin defined eating meat an unjustified crime. He had become a vegetarian when he was sixteen years old, also because he noticed that he managed to learn more easily and was intellectually more brilliant when he didn't eat any meat.

In the 18th century, the great Russian writer Lev Tolstoy, who used to be a hunter, became a vegetarian and passionately began to advocate non-violence. He wrote that "eating meat is immoral, because it implies an immoral action like killing. When a man kills a living being, he wipes out his highest spiritual faculties, which are love and compassion toward other creatures."

In the 20th century, many other great men and women were vegetarian, like the musician, physician and philanthropist Albert Schweitzer, who won the Nobel price for peace in 1952. Or like another Nobel prize, Mahatma Gandhi, who said that "meat is not the right food for our species."

Even the greatest scientist of the 20th century, Albert Einstein, maintained that "the vegetarian diet would have extremely beneficial effects on humanity."

The Esoteric reasons for Vegetarianism

According to various esoteric teachings, vegetarianism is the ideal diet for those who want to reach the highest levels of spiritual development. For example, the American theosophist C.W. Leadbeater has written an essay on Vegetarianism and Occultism, in which he says that the vegetarian diet is the only one that allows the necessary purification of the body to anyone who wants to reach perfection in order to help the evolution of humanity.

According to Leadbeater, saying that diet is unimportant from an occult standpoint is a heresy. In fact, all the ancient and modern occult schools maintain that absolute purity is indispensable to physical and spiritual progress.

Referring to the four spiritual bodies of man theosophy talks about, Leadbeater states that all these bodies communicate with each other, although on different planes. Therefore, since meat is the grosser form of nourishment, whoever eats it will have his highest bodies made of a denser, impure matter. Moreover, while blunting sensitivity, meat diet also hinders the development of ESP. The real clairvoyants, Leadbeater says, must be all vegetarian.

According to other esoteric teachers, eating meat is detrimental if you want to practise meditation, because the negative energies absorbed when you eat the meat of brutally killed animals prevent you from attuning your energies with the energy of the universe. In fact, all the great yogis are vegetarians.

Even Osho, probably the most "westernized" of all Indian gurus, didn't allow the consumption of meat in his communities. He said that a man who isn't searching for the divine can eat anything he wants, but a man who begins to meditate in order to "fly" to higher levels of consciousness must get rid of all unnecessary weight. And non-vegetarian food, Osho concludes, is an unnecessary weight.

Hare Krishna followers, who have greatly contributed to the spreading of vegetarianism in the West, think that our "alimentary violence," together with all the other forms of violence in our society, creates a tidal wave of negative karma. That, in turn, increases human aggressiveness and therefore the number of crimes perpetrated in the world.

Someone could ask if the karmic problem concerns also the "killing" of vegetables like carrots, potatoes, onions, etc. "There can also be karmic reactions in this case," a Hare Krishna spokesperson explains. "But there is much less pain involved than in killing animals, because the plants' nervous system is much less developed."

Another reason why the Hindu tradition prescribes vegetarianism is the belief in the possibility that a human being reincarnates in animal form. When killing an animal, then, it's possible to commit violence against a human soul.

Anyway, the crime isn't much less severe if it is perpetrated against an animal soul, since the most spiritual people have always believed that animals have souls like humans.

Pythagoras, for example, who believed in the transmigration of souls, maintained that the animals' souls are eternal like those of men, since both originate from the "Anima Mundi" (World's Soul), the force that permeates all the molecules in the universe, the prime mover of all matter, which acts as intermediary between God and the cosmos. Animals, then, are all emanations of divine energy, like humans.

That's why it is important to make more conscious choices in any field, if we really want a New Age of Love and Unity, of compassion and understanding. Even one person's choices can make a difference for all living beings. And since violence begets violence, according to the law of karma, if we choose not to do harm to the weakest creatures, that can only have wonderful effects on all humanity.

Therefore, in this new era of light, we can choose to go beyond our fears of loosing our good health or of causing an ecological disaster, and become vegetarian for the most important reason: for love.<<

[Guest Javanmard]

really interesting how people who pretend to defend Sikhi against Hindu influence are defending the epitome of Brahmanism: vegeterianism. At the same time they accuse Nihangs of eating meat (anti-brahmanical practice).

really funny indeed!

[Narsingha]

Something to think about....for those harassing the poor little Goat.

‘An elephant’s flesh is not edible for he is full of pride,

The lion is also full of pride of its strength so no one eats it either,

Humble is the goat it gains honour in the here after and this world,

In all celebrations is it [the meat], acknowledged,

It [the meat], sanctifies religious gatherings and feasts,

Its meat is ‘Pavitar’ [good/sacred] for the householder,

From its entrails [tendons] is string for instruments made that when they play, attracts holy men in meditation

From it’s skin are shoes made, which holy feet wear as they go to seek holy protection [to Guru].

With its skin are bound drums with which ‘Kirtan’ [religious songs], are sung,

Hence, they [goat-skin bound drums] give great comfort.

The holy gathering is coming into the Guru’s protection.’

(Bhai Gurdas Ji’s Varan, Bhai Gurdas, ‘Var 23, Pauri 16’)

from: http://www.shastarvidiya.org/htmls/chatka2.html

...respect the sacrifice of the Goat!! :twisted:

[Narsingha]

For those wanting a vegetarian Khalsa:

‘How can vegetarianism work where there is constant war?

How can a Vegetarian Panth survive there?

How can vegetarians survive there, where there is daily war, daily bloodshed?

There you might have to survive by drinking the enemy’s blood.

There are such difficult circumstances.

In Banda Bhadur Bairagi’s Panth were Sadhus. How could they know of this?’

(‘Pracheen Panth Prakash - Stik’, by Shaheed Rattan Singh Bhangu, translated by Akali Nihang Baba Santa Singh, Pa. 377-378)

from: http://www.shastarvidiya.org/htmls/chatka4.html

[Guest]

really interesting how people who pretend to defend Sikhi against Hindu influence are defending the epitome of Brahmanism: vegeterianism. At the same time they accuse Nihangs of eating meat (anti-brahmanical practice).

really funny indeed!

Please clarify who is defending Sikhi against Brahmanism. This discussion is about the issue of vegetarianism, so don't make evasive and indirect remarks.

As for your comment, I think you're generalising. Many people, enlightened people of other faiths are vegetarians, you calling all of them Hindu's now? In fact, Sikh Saints have been vegetarian, are they less spiritually advanced? Or were they pretending to defend Sikhi too?

Gurfateh

[Narsingha]

For all those wanting to be a Khalsa, listen to this:

'Be initiated into the Khalsa and go hunting.

Preserve the martial traditions any way you can.

Chatka goats and eat them.

Do not eat carrion or Halal meat [animal slaughtered in the Muslim way].

Nurture your long hair.

Do not cut your hair with a razor.

Forsake your ancestral ways.

Focus on the Guru's feet.

They who get on the wrong path punish them.

Whatever method [of initiation] the Guru has ordained, do it.

From five Bhujangis [Nihangs] be initiated.'

[Narsingha]

Oh this is another amazing scene, as described by Shaheed Rattan Singh Bhangu in Pracheen Panth Prakash. Bhai Vir Singh quotes from this text:

Subegh Singh, is acting as a Moghal agent and has gone to meet the Khalsa Singhs:

'Where the Khalsa had made its base, battle drums played and battle standards fluttered in the air.

He [subegh Singh] arrived where the Singhs were.

Ahead the Khalsa was gathering.

Scriptures were being read and musical instruments played.

Cannabis was being ground and meat roasted.

Some Singhs massaged the horses, while others cleaned their weapons.

Some fired their arrows, some their muskets and others were spinning chakars [quoits].

Some Singhs massaged other Singhs while some fanned the congregation.

Others fetched water from far which helped the Singhs to bathe.

Some were sharing [food] others not [i.e. eating alone].

Running around, the Singhs did service.'

('Pracheen Panth Prakash', by Shaheed Rattan Singh Bhangu, Expurgated by Bhai Vir Singh, , Pa.212)

from: http://www.sarbloh.info/htmls/sikh_akali11.html

Point to Note:

1) The Singh Khalsa are drinking cannabis, and eating meat and they doesnt seem to be a shortage of food. So, why do vegetarian Khalsa claim that meat was only eaten during times of extreme famine? :?

2) The Singh Khalsa seem pretty calm, and are carrying out their daily chores, and it appears cannabis and meat are part of their daily life from what we can see. So, why do the vegetarian Khalsa claim that this was not done?

3) The scene described above can be seen today with Nihang Dals around India, yet, vegetarian Khalsa claim that modern Nihangs are fakes simply because they eat meat and drink cannabis.

4) None of the Singhs desribed in the scene above seem to be drunk, in fact, Rattan Singh says "Scriptures were being read and musical instruments played. " . As anyone who is aware, playing traditional musical insturments such as Rabab, Taus, Dilruba, etc require a LOT of skill and effort, and cannot be played if a person was drunk. A drunk cannot read scriptures either. Note: The Vaaja was not used as this is an Italian instument introduced later, and did not even exist in Khalsa armies/camps.

[Guest]

narsingha.. if someone wants to eat meat then that is up to them.. and it isnt against sikhi if they have chatka meat ... i prefer to keep a vegetarian diet - from ur understanding jus eating veggies is "SERIOUSLY" wrong

if someone keeps a vegetarian diet then why would they chatka goats???... they wudnt jus kill a goat for the sake of doin it to stay as a khalsa... do u do chatka on goats?? i never knew they sold live goats in the uk for home slaughter :? from lookin at ur site u took videos from india of chatka .... but the demonstration battle videos were shot by u lot... cudnt find a goat?

yep i dont eat hallal...

yep i nurture my long hair....

yep i focus on gurus feet...

ive never had a chance to learn any shaster arts - but that dont mean i cant defend myself...

i dont do cannabis... guru nanak dev ji said naam japo - vandkey shako - kirat karo.... he didnt add sukha peevo too its my personal choice not doing it.... do u hand out sukha at ur akharas??.. i wonder what the uk law says on illegal substances used within religious practises

so what is "seriously" wrong i dont understand..... ur making a gap between everyone cos their diet does not agree with urs??? jus cos someone doesnt do cannabis or meat doesnt mean taht they are any less of a khalsa.... if someone didnt naam jap then you could say that... naam is a nessessity to every sikh... not meat/canabis... but if you wish to add it into ur diet then thats up to u....

fateh

[Narsingha]

Here is another gorgeous quote from Giani Gian Singh Nirmala's Naveen Panth Prakash, used as a definitive historical text by all modern day post-British Raj Sikh institutions such as the AKJ, SGPC, Sant followers, Taksali Singhs, etc.

'Listening [to the coming of the Afghans] the Singhs got ready.

They adorned weapons and chain mail on their bodies.

They did chatka [killing with one blow] of goats and drank goblets of opium and Sukha.

Gurbux Singh was the groom, and the others, the wedding party.'

('Naveen Panth Prakash', Giani Gian Singh Nirmala, Bhasha Vihbhag, Pa. 928)

So, it appears according to this, that even the the great Akali Nihang Baba Gurbux Singh Ji who was:

a) born in 1688

took amrit i 1699(?) at Anandpur from Akali Nihang Guru Gobind Singh ji (read his history)

c) was taught Gurmat Vidiya by Bhai Mani Singh Nirmala

d) was taught Shastar Vidiya by Akali Nihang Baba Deep Singh Ji Shaheed

e) was a scribe and wrote many Pothis and Gutkas of Gurbani to be distributed around the Khalsa

f) a Nihang of the Budha Dal, and as the modern Damdami Taksal claim him to be their 3rd Jathedar

.....ATE MEAT, DRANK GOBLETS OF OPIUM AND SUKHA

Indeed, Baba ji is recognised as a Gursikh by the Damdami Taksal.

Here is an old painting of AKALI NIHANG BABA GURBUX SINGH Ji

Gurdwara Shaheed Ganj (behind the Akall Takhat) commemorates Baba ji's Shaheedi Pehra 8)

[Narsingha]

"narsingha.. if someone wants to eat meat then that is up to them.. and it isnt against sikhi if they have chatka meat ... i prefer to keep a vegetarian diet - from ur understanding jus eating veggies is "SERIOUSLY" wrong "

- Steel Bangle (trying to be understanding)

Buddy, where have I stated that eating veggies is wrong or indeed right? (I assume here that "veggies" are vegetables, and not vegetarians!!). And, another point, u arent aware of my "understanding", so dont assume u do. I am simply providing EVIDENCE and FACTS from Historical texts, which is what u guys keep asking for. 8)

When I do, and the quotes dont agree with ur sentiments, u start accusing me of crap. For a moderator, u need to learn a few things about being objective and not pointing fingers at the messenger. :cry:

".... but the demonstration battle videos were shot by u lot... cudnt find a goat"

- Steel Bangle (trying to be funny) :cry:

Yup, the reason being, we did that a bit earlier and didnt wanna shock vegetarians such as yourselves, besides, I didnt think you'd be so keen on watching us eat. :twisted:

"do u hand out sukha at ur akharas??.. i wonder what the uk law says on illegal substances used within religious practises "

- Steel Bangle (trying to be inquisitive)

Come and find out for yourself, rather than depend on rumours circulated around by liars claiming to be "GurSikhs" :roll:

"ur making a gap between everyone cos their diet does not agree with urs..blah blah blah"

-Steel Bangle (making assumptions)

Bangle, I could be a vegetarian for all you know. Does it matter what I eat? Why are u bringing MY personal dietary preferences into this discussion? Leh..emmi.. :roll:

I am providing people with QUOTES from historical texts, and it aint "MY" opinion. Argue with Bhai Vir Singh, Giani Gian Singh Nirmala, Rattan Singh Bhangu. Why assume this is "MY" view simply because i have provded some quotes? :?:

[Guest]

read again.... i said "jus eating veggies"... not "eatin veggies"

from ur pm to admin u said that u respect poeples wish to be vegetarian... the same way i respect someones wish if they wanna eat chatka meat... but yeh i agree with u some people like to push their views onto others sayin do this do that

[Guest Javanmard]

Dear Gurpreet Kaur

with all due respect I think you do know what I was talking about. As to the relationship between vegeterianism and spirituality here are a few examples:

some of the rishis in Upanishadic literature were meat eaters. Although Buddha preached compassion towards animals he ate meat. In fact most Buddhist monks I know are meat eaters and so is the Dalai Lama.

Udasi Baba Sri Ramakrishna Paramahamsa and his disciple Swami Vivekanana were meat eaters.

In fact the Khalsa criticised Banda Bahadar for "not eating meat and drinking wine", see Ganda Singh.

There is a difference between eating meat in reasonable quantities in a mostly veggie diet and the way gore eat meat every single day.

[Guest]

Gurfateh

Thanks for the clarification Lalleshwari. Although I disagree, you are entitled to your opinion. As I said, it's a personal choice, so I'm sticking to my broccoli :?

Gurfateh

[Guest Javanmard]

Oh please do not misunderstand me. You can stick to your broccoli as much as you want, and in fact I think it's a healthy choice. But I am just stating that mahaprasad is a holy tradition according to puratan sikh maryada.

love

[Gupt Singh]

o and ill look into the bhai gurdas quote. its strange that dasam granth and guru granth have absolutely NO reference to chatka of goats, etc....and dont give me those triyah chartitrer or chandi di var quotes as shaky evidence either.....

----------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Moderator Note: Please provide your references to your claims of calling Chandi Di war as Shaky evidences or it will be edited.

[Gupt Singh]

<Admin Cut: No Hearsay>

[drawrof]

<Admin Cut: Off topic>

[Gupt Singh]

when i was refferring to chandi di var i was talking about guruji describing how the wounded looked like stoned sandhoos on the floor, and some people say from that its ok to get stoned.

i dont understand why you deleted my post. in one of gyani gyan singhs books he says that guruji tried to sacrifice his kiddies to chandi and after his mom stopped him he hurled abuse at her...........now once you read that, you may question the authenticity of such a book considering how much love guruji had for his kids as shown in other sakhis, and how he didnt worship chandi but showed the true bhagauti to be the sword to the bahmans who tried to make her appear. the books that my best friend narsingha has mentioned are all essentially history books, and alot of the stories are a little dodgy (as the above one) to say the least.

the akal takht has only recently made a strong stance on the dasam granth, never mind books like panth prakash!

veggie 4 life!

[Guest Javanmard]

LOng live jhatka :twisted:

[Gupt Singh]

"the moslems do their halal, and the hindoos do their jhatka, but compassion has left them both" - bhagat kabeer

[Guest]

hmm yeh i was thinkin the same randip - i read thru bhagat kabeer's saloks last night and never saw anything like that... altho there is a quote about maachi and bhang

[Ideal Singh]

Have you ever seen Discovery Channel? Recently there was a programme where they were showing two small lion cubs growing in a separate place for experimention purposes. Now what was the experiment they were only served only vegitarion food like grass or other vegitarian stuff and you know what they were slowly habituated to eat vergitarion only and after period of time simply resisted eating non-vergitarion stuff. So this proves that eating habits are developed accordinly to you surroundings.

And One more fact:: Have you ever checked your denture structure (teeth autonomy). Just do it right now... go to your dressing table and have a look at your denture and you would be surprised to realize that there are four teeth which are very sharp in edges and are longer than the rest of the teeth and resemble with those of lions. What do they convey? They prove that man has always been habituted to survive on any of the two options available be it vegitarian or non-vergitarian.

look at these example and read the whole text:

http://mistupid.com/health/teeth.htm

Just take your mouse on the adult teeth and roll it to Canine teeth... there are four of them and just check this with mirror. These are what I talking about.

Have a close look at this and then raise questions.

Dear Randip kindly read my reply (reproduced above) more deligently (Diyaan naal) not just go through it. You will find that I am purly neutral as far as this topic is concerned. I have written that Humans are habituated to consume either of the options available to them either veg or non-veg.

The eating habbits which have become of the human lifestyle over the millions of years, how can we just refute them all of a sudden.

Also read the follwoing postings by truthsingh which clearly explain the true meaning of the Shabad we always tend to misinterprate ie. "maans maans kar moorakh jhagrae".

http://www.sikhawareness.com/sikhawareness...opic.php?t=1627

And then decide if I am wrong when I say that Gurbani should read in full and only then we would extract the full meaning of the tuks rather just quoting them accordinly to our convienance.

[randip singh]

Hi Amans,

Maybe I was a bit harsh........yes I have read all the various quotes on meat eating in their entirity.................there are problems with certain words being translated.......e.g "murdaar"..............which normally refers to dead people..........but the vegetarian lobby take to mean dead animals.................the problem is that the SGGS ji has been written to read as a whole............an entire paragraph refers to a particular subject...........when you take out one or two sentences you distort the meaning of the peragraph...............both camps are guilty of this..........

My concern is the state of out young sikh men and women..............many are weaklings............especially the vegetarian ones.......this is an undeniable fact..............they need to improve their diets and get to the gym..............there is no doubt that meat and eggs does make you stronger...........therfore I would like to see young Sikhs adopt sensible balanced diets that make themselves physically stronger......so they are no longer the victims of muslim gangs in the uk ......... or hindu mobs like the dehli riots................

this is the only agenda I have............to see our Sikhs strong and powerful.........