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What does the word Ram refers to in Guru Granth Sahib??


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We cannot say guru should have written that or something else . we cannot judge our guru's works

thanx Karmjeet Virji, but you are taking me totally wrong.

I'm NOT trying to say why Guru ji or Bhagats have used the word 'RAM' but I have raised objection to the translation of the word 'RAM' to 'LORD' which is not done by Guru's but some AmritDhari Sikhs (Why I call it that way) because it seems to me that if you are not 'AmritDhari' the Sikh community won't accept your thesis or work on it.

SO my quest presntly to understand the shabads including the word 'RAM' and to know the Guru's or Bhagats who have known tobe written it and understand the Physchy to get to the answer ''WHY????'

Am I doing anything wrong here??

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With Ram Nam, what Guru Jee wants to tell us, is, that the word Ram is used to describe the Creator, who is rameeya (permeated,omnipresent)  hua in all and everywhere, that is why He is called Ram,  t

Raam mentioned in SGGS Ji is *NOT* Ram Chander Ji Maharaj(Hindu God). Raam in SGGS JI refers to formless lord- aka nirankar, ikongkar, vahiguroo, paratama, alllah !

totaly wrong here. do some resarch, READ BANI, u will see that they dont agree with the rituals of hinduism and the beliefs of islam. they are not HINDUS and MUSLIMS, infact, bhagat kabir ji started h

What about Krishna, was he a Mythological Character as well? If so then the whole of MahaBharat is a Myth? Am i correct so far?

Yes, true both Ram and Krishna are mythological characters. I have not come across any historical evidence of either Ramayan or Maharbharat.

What you mean it will make more sense to you if....., it seems you are trying to Mold Gurbani to how it wuold make sense to you and not molding yourself to what gurbani is. If that is your approach to this, then surely you are not using the right methods.

It is my mind when I read Slok Mahal 9 it always hit me that if Guru Teg Bhadar wrote these then why the use of 'RAM' as 'GOD', he was the ninth Guru must have been seasoned with Guru's methodology of using 'NANAK' in most of the Shabads.

I think these may make more sense to me if I can understand what promted Guru Teg Bhadar to use 'RAM'

Are you with me??

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Gurbani has level of understanding-

In order to get full understanding of gurbani and know guroo maharaj emotions when they wrote it, why they wrote it you have to be bhramgyani(merge with divine light) if not then atleast close to the divine to get an idea.

How can we capture gurbani(ocean) in our own little pots(kalyugi minded thinking) ??

just think about it bro.

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We all are moorakh bande . Gurbani is like a very vast ocean whose end we cannot achieve by our malin budhi .

These answers you can only find either from the Guru Himself or some pooran brahmgyani mahapurakh

How can we capture gurbani(ocean) in our own little pots(kalyugi minded thinking) ??

Thanx for reminding me but I very well know as Guru ji himself wrote

"Main Murakh tum Chatoor Sainee..."

but is there nay thing wrong in searching. I might not have read many of the shabads which I get to now after starting the quest because I have a goal to find what is disturbing me. It helps me go back to SGGS and read in depth trying to find meaning.

Jaap without knowing the meaning I used to do when I was a child. I used to say Japji Sahib without reading but if someone used to intrupt me I used to get lost becuase I never knew the meaning of the single word. I just used to do becuase my parent taught so.

But I don't want to do that to my children. I want them to know what it is what it means.

Knowledge is power and I think everyone tries to Khoj something in the SGGS so that they will have the quest to understand it.

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newagesikh wrote :"he was the ninth Guru must have been seasoned with Guru's methodology of using 'NANAK' in most of the Shabads."

i can't say anything becus i m moorakh . but with my malin budhi i think nanak pad was used by Guru Sahiban at the end of every shabad and as a mohar .

Guru ji used Ram to signify God . Ram is a name of God .

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("newAgeSikh"

[quote)

Yes, true both Ram and Krishna are mythological characters. I have not come across any historical evidence of either Ramayan or Maharbharat.

Well that is your problem, you ahve a difficult time believing the existence of Ram so you theorize that Gurbani should not have spoken about Ram 'the Mythological character' when we are suppose to be lead away from 'false' deities. Again this goes back to don't bend Gurbani to your likes, bend yourself to the likes of Gurbani.

It is my mind when I read Slok Mahal 9 it always hit me that if Guru Teg Bhadar wrote these then why the use of 'RAM' as 'GOD', he was the ninth Guru must have been seasoned with Guru's methodology of using 'NANAK' in most of the Shabads.

I think these may make more sense to me if I can understand what promted Guru Teg Bhadar to use 'RAM'

Are you with me??

Karmjeet brings upon a good point, reading the Sloaks of 9th Guru at the end of the Sloaks is your answer which clearly states that the 9th Guru ji was 'Seasoned' with the Guru lineage. When Guru ji clearly says "Kahio Nanak " That Nanak Says, not Guru Teghbahadur ji.

Another thing to not in The SGGS is that you will find before the beginning of Shabads or Saloaks it will say 'Ghar or Mehal', that 3th Mehal, 5th Ghar and so forth which implies that it is the 5th or 3th or 9th or 2nd House of Nanak. Furthermore you can understand that it was Guru Nanak's Jot in the other 9 Gurus.

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i can't say anything becus i m moorakh . but with my malin budhi i think nanak pad was used by Guru Sahiban at the end of every shabad and as a mohar .

Thats what my feeling was also but it is not true. Thats why I say to Koj more you will surprised to find things we need to understand more and find out the reasoning, there might lies some eternal truth waiting to be explored.

e.g.

raam naam ur mai gahi-o jaa kai sam nahee ko-ay

jih simrat sankat mitai daras tuhaaro ho-ay.

Means most likely:

I have enshrined the 'RAM' {What ever meaning you want to associate to it} Name within my heart; there is nothing equal to it. Meditating in remembrance on it, my troubles are taken away; I have received the Blessed Vision of Your Darshan

This doesn't end with 'Nanak' Stamp. So it baffle me with respect to its source.

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Thats what my feeling was also but it is not true. Thats why I say to Koj more you will surprised to find things we need to understand more and find out the reasoning, there might lies some eternal truth waiting to be explored.

e.g.

raam naam ur mai gahi-o jaa kai sam nahee ko-ay

jih simrat sankat mitai daras tuhaaro ho-ay.

Means most likely:

I have enshrined the 'RAM' {What ever meaning you want to associate to it} Name within my heart; there is nothing equal to it. Meditating in remembrance on it, my troubles are taken away; I have received the Blessed Vision of Your Darshan

This doesn't end with 'Nanak' Stamp. So it baffle me with respect to its source.

That is an absured conclusion. you took 2 lines and because they odn't have nanak in them it is wrong...riiiiiight.

so the last line does not belong to Guru Nanak ji, is that what you are saying??

Here is the Entire Verse.

dohrw ]

dhoharaa ||

Dohraa:

blu CutikE bMDn pry kCU n hoq aupwie ]

bal shhuttakiou ba(n)dhhan parae kashhoo n hoth oupaae ||

My strength is exhausted, and I am in bondage; I cannot do anything at all.

khu nwnk Ab Et hir gj ijau hohu shwie ]53]

kahu naanak ab outt har gaj jio hohu sehaae ||53||

Says Nanak, now, the Lord is my Support; He will help me, as He did the elephant. ||53||

blu hoAw bMDn Cuty sBu ikCu hoq aupwie ]

bal hoaa ba(n)dhhan shhuttae sabh kishh hoth oupaae ||

My strength has been restored, and my bonds have been broken; now, I can do everything.

nwnk sBu ikCu qumrY hwQ mY qum hI hoq shwie ]54]

naanak sabh kishh thumarai haathh mai thum hee hoth sehaae ||54||

Nanak: everything is in Your hands, Lord; You are my Helper and Support. ||54||

sMg sKw siB qij gey koaU n inbihE swiQ ]

sa(n)g sakhaa sabh thaj geae kooo n nibehiou saathh ||

My associates and companions have all deserted me; no one remains with me.

khu nwnk ieh ibpiq mY tyk eyk rGunwQ ]55]

kahu naanak eih bipath mai ttaek eaek raghunaathh ||55||

Says Nanak, in this tragedy, the Lord alone is my Support. ||55||

nwmu rihE swDU rihE rihE guru goibMdu ]

naam rehiou saadhhoo rehiou rehiou gur gobi(n)dh ||

The Naam remains; the Holy Saints remain; the Guru, the Lord of the Universe, remains.

khu nwnk ieh jgq mY ikn jipE gur mMqu ]56]

kahu naanak eih jagath mai kin japiou gur ma(n)th ||56||

Says Nanak, how rare are those who chant the Guru's Mantra in this world. ||56||

rwm nwmu aur mY gihE jw kY sm nhI koie ]

raam naam our mai gehiou jaa kai sam nehee koe ||

I have enshrined the Lord's Name within my heart; there is nothing equal to it.

ijh ismrq sMkt imtY drsu quhwro hoie ]57]1]

jih simarath sa(n)katt mittai dharas thuhaaro hoe ||57||1||

Meditating in remembrance on it, my troubles are taken away; I have received the Blessed Vision of Your Darshan. ||57||1||

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I very well know what are you trying to say.

I was just rying to point to a litle inconsistency, there have to be some theory behind it that we will have to find.

But then how can you explain the Raag Maalaa Page 1429 -1430. It doesn't have 'NANAK' in it at all.

I was never able to find a clue to why it belongs in SGGS to begin with what purpose does it serves. If you go through the translation you can enlighten me if you find anything worth discussing.

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loll you are obsessed with theories about everything.

"sochai soch na hova-ee jay sochee lakh vaar" Your Knowledge will not sprout from thinking or your theories, but from Grace. Grace which is the by-product of Love. For Love no theories are required.

Well im out for today, My Advice:

Put more effort into bringing Love in your heart and Theorize less. :)

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why are you so bent on finding inconsistencies within the SGGS, if you continue to do as such, i think it may mean that you are trying to find deliberate faults within the SGGS in order to demean it...

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why are you so bent on finding inconsistencies within the SGGS, if you continue to do as such, i think it may mean that you are trying to find deliberate faults within the SGGS in order to demean it...

Why are we 'Sikhs' are so vulnerable to criticisim?

I've no intention of finding faults, instead I'm trying to learn.

Previously I used to recite only, without actually learning to know what everything means.

Now I try to learn what it all means and how I can make use of it. Since when you try go deep into something you can start spotting the litlle things that pop up as question from curiosity and from the urge to understand the details.

So the goal here is to grasp more by knowing more.

Motto: Knowledge is Power otherwise I would have remain 15 year old reciting the prayers without ever trying to find the meaning of the word I used to say.

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"sochai soch na hova-ee jay sochee lakh vaar" Your Knowledge will not sprout from thinking or your theories, but from Grace. Grace which is the by-product of Love. For Love no theories are required.

I think you forgot the next line:

chupai chup na hova-ee jay laa-ay rahaa liv taar.

By remaining silent, peace cannot be obtained because if you are restless you should ask questions and should not keep silent.

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I believe that the people..be it hindu or sikh..keep beards and long hairs because there were no hairdressers at that time. I am clean shaven because I get all these facilities nowadays.....

Guru Ram, Guru Krishna, Guru Nanak Dev, etc....all are the same. In guru granth sahib ji, Guru Dev ji referred to Guru vishnu, Guru brahma, Guru shiva which are all the same....Basically, Guru Dev ji teacher was a brahmin- pandit- who taught him hinduism, and guru dev ji removed all the things which he perceived to be right, and sikhism is modern hinduism, and wish our hindu brothers join us in our belief, if not totally abiding by our faith but at least understand the modern period of sikhism and its essence.

My mum is a brahmin and my dad is sikh, I go to gurdwara quite often with my mum since my dad is busy with his work. This means that there are loads of hindus who go to Gurdwara... some of my hindu cousins go to gurdwara more often than that of my sikh cousins.....just wrtiting on anything on this website might create conflicts and false beliefs sometimes.

Just like I believe in Guru Dev ji, equally Guru krishna and Guru Ram were the same for the hindus....you can't criticise. I respect Guru Krishna and Guru Ram equally, about which Guru Dev ji included their names in our Guru Granth Sahib ji to show respect and 'dharma' and all noble things of these Gurus. This means that Guru Dev Ji equally loved and adored these Gurus.

Gurfateh

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Satsriakal.

Ram is the name to recognize God.

The wisdom of Ram is unknown till it is received as Gurprasad.

The wisdom of God and Ram is the same for all human beings. It does not differentiate between a Hindu and a person from any other religion.

Also, a Hindu believes in Ram as the Supreme Nirguna Lord. Many Hindus make an idol of Ram and worship him as the supreme Sarguna Lord.

A Sikh also believes in Ram as the supreme Nirguna Lord. Sikhs do not make an idol of Ram and worship God in this Sarguna form.

One can read about Ram in mythology also.

In my view, the myth of Ram is not a mere story. It takes place when spiritual and conscious mind grow.

There are very old temples of Ram. But there is no proof available if Ram ever took birth as human being on earth.

When a person is born as human being and is called Ram, he dies also. Such a person goes.

God remains.

Balbir Singh

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I believe that the people..be it hindu or sikh..keep beards and long hairs because there were no hairdressers at that time. I am clean shaven because I get all these facilities nowadays.....

I believe u chat sh*t. how dumb can u be? i can't believe that staement. people keep turbans and beards because there were no hair dressers!!

i think u and new age sikh blatently have some sort of agenda.

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rikki.singh

I believe that the people..be it hindu or sikh..keep beards and long hairs because there were no hairdressers at that time. I am clean shaven because I get all these facilities nowadays.....

, je tu clean shaven hain taan singh kahda hoya .

koi sharam hya hai koi ke nahi ?

maainoyea , this is a sikh forum !!!!

no anti -sikh views are gonna be accepted . :x

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, je tu clean shaven hain taan singh kahda hoya .

koi sharam hya hai koi ke nahi ?

maainoyea , this is a sikh forum !!!!

no anti -sikh views are gonna be accepted .

You are not sikh by just keeping long hair or beards.

You Sikh if you follow Gurbani.

I'll again reiterate that there is no reference to Kepping Hairs or Beards in SGGS.

You just make some one NON-SIKH because he doesn't support hairs as there are more than 80% Sikhs those who don't support all 5 K's.

To remind you that only 20% of Sikhs are AmritDhari and you consider that as minority.

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  • 1 month later...

NEWAGESIKH

When you dont belong to SIKHISM, its naturally you say such things. I wasnt surprised about your questions. Please do respect SGGS, if you are disagree with our GURU then you fave NO right to disrespect.

I m going to follow SGGS blindly, NOBODY can stop me doing this.

As Guru Gobind Singh ji said " Agya bhay AKAL ki tabi chalayo panth.sab sikhan ko HUKAM hai GURU MANYO GRANTH".

NANAK NAAM CHARDI KALA TERE BHANE SARBAT DA BHALA

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Ek Oankar Wahiguru Ji Ki Fateh

First why Ram is reapeated in Adi Guru Darbar

why lord Rama respectted in Panth and worshipped in hindusim were named Ram.

so name of Dashrath 'son lord Rama was Ramchandra maharaj other name of this Great prophet sent by Akal(God) were Raghav,Rajeev,Awadhesh etc.

Meaning of Ramchandra is Moon form God or Moon(Chandra of GoD) as he was there like a moon to spread light of God.

Ram is termed Rammaya by Saint Namdev(who is often termed as hindu While we call him Sikh or Sanatan Dharmi) that means Ramma ie Absorbed in all universe. As whole universe each atom has Akal in it.

Thats why God is Ram.

We were told to keep 5ks by tenth master at the end of Dasham Guru Darbar,It is treated equally with Adi Guru Darbar. If non Sikh who wants to be Sikh needs a probation period sort of a Thing to be full sikh with 5ks that person duirng probation period is called Sahij dhari Sikh,A slow adopting Sikh.This period may last more then a single birth and that person can becomea Sikh in next birth.

But a Sikh who become (un) clean shaven is called fallen or Patit and nothing more. Das was a Hindu,By mercy of Akal,within single birth Akal bestowed 5ks to him.

Sikh without kes is like Jungle without tree. Sorry if wrong is written anyway das wants to know why this 'ideal' new age 'Sikh' is banned from respected admin ? What other things like this our brother New age 'sikh' has written? May be he needs some councelling .

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  • 14 years later...

 

What does the word Ram refers to in Guru Granth Sahib??

My 2 cents  for the answer of the topic of this thread about  what does SGGS refers to the word Ram....... is that, obviously it does not refer to  Sree Ram, the son of king Dashrat, and incarnation of  Sree Vishnu Jee.

But it definetely refers to  the quality of that Supreme Truth, namely Waheguru Akal Purukh / Satnam /Nam/Shabad, which permeates each and every atom of the creation.

Rameeyaa hua, which means, the one that permeates everything everywhere, in that sense, it is Waheguru alone who since Aad Jugaad, permeates throughout  all the Brahm and  the Parbrahm creation.

SSA.

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