Jump to content

Was Guru Nanak Dev ji muslim?


Recommended Posts

This is the cloak Guru Nanak's used to wear You can clearly see, even for the fact that some of the writings are a bit smudgy, not obliterated, but do not have the same quality as they had previously, but they are legible. So anybody who is interested can see - Surah Fatiha (from the Holy Qur'an) written on it, La ilaha ilialah Muhamadar Rasoolullah and no verse of any other book is mentioned there at all.

Those who believe that he mixed religions, like Akbar attempted to do, that he took something from Hinduism, something from Islam and as such he molded a new religion, that Chola stands as witness against them.

There is nothing but Islam mentioned on the Chola. So these are the reasons why we believe that Sikhism is a continuity of Islam, a sect in Islam which was a Sufi sect but, unfortunately, because of the political fights with the so called Muslim government of the time they were thrown apart and the more they went into the political fights for the supremacy in Punjab against the Moghul Empire, the more they started drifting away from the religion of Islam until they began to hate it.

HE WAS A MUSLIM BECAUSE:

He use to pray 5 times a day. (?Five times he prays, he read the book of Quran ?p37?)

He recites Quran which he use to carry in his pothi (a satchel)

There is also a tradition in Janam Sakti that he preformed pilgrimage to Mecca.

His first Murshid (spiritual teacher) was a Muslim. (Sheikh Faridra)

In Nanak we see reflection of Muslim FAQIRS (not of Hindu SÃDHUS)

His cloak inscribed with Quranic verses is a true witness.

His own words speaks of himself ?I am thankful to God of Glorious Throne that I am a Momin?

HE WAS NOT A HINDU BECAUSE:

"Guru Nanak Ji studied the Vedas and Shastras seriously and deeply but gave them up as being unimpressive." (Nuskha Akhbar Dyanandian p. 197.)

"Guru Nanak Ji never professed the authenticity of Vedas with any respect or reverence like the other followers of Vedas, nor did he believe that the Vedas are Divine books, nor he considered that the contents of Vedas could teach lofty virtues of truthfulness and honesty." (Guru Sat Dershan . p.91)

Guru Nanak Ji refuted and rejected the Vedas by describing them as creators of crisis (trouble shooters) preachers of sin, stores of material greed and the teachings of which drive one farther away from God. He dubbed their adherents as followers of dictates of mind, eligible to punishment at the hands of the Angel of Death and liars of the first rate. " (Khara Khalsa p. 11

There are so many examples that clearly shows that he was not a Hindu. Who?s left?? The Muslims

Link to post
Share on other sites

lol!....

oh my god... wat new stuff is this

u can check the whole article out on

http://www.punjabilok.com/faith/guru_nanak...slamicchola.htm

its got some next guys arguements - but i feel that he didnt argue enuff about this thing

firstly.... how authentic is this .... the guy says "theres writting on the chola - its a bit smugdy".... then he goes to say its all over the chola - :?

2ndly - the fool who wrote that article needs to learn some respect its not "nanak" its shri guru nanak dev ji!!!

3rdly - how could shri guru nanak dev ji be a muslim - when all muslim males are ordered to have the sunnat (circumcisn) and to shave their top lips - when removing hair is against sikhi - how could he fulfil these orders....

4thly - the pilgramage to mecca was not for himself - he went with bhai mardana - as non muslims couldnt enter the kabba - he stayed outside

im sure allot of peopel have heard this sakhi - when mecca moved - if shri guru nanak dev ji maharaj was a muslim - why didnt he go in??.... why did the guards pick up their feet and throw them to the other side ??

thly - when shri guru nanak dev ji is so against the killing of any animal - and the whole hallal ritual..... how does he become a muslim??

6thly - the claim that maharaj used to pray 5 times... and the page number??? :? is this of the sggs??... if it is.... its definitly false!!! shri guru nanak dev ji's bani does not even come near panna 37... the 37th page would come under shri guru amar das ji's bani

theres allot more... but i have to get back to my work :oops:

find the persons email who wrote this - :x :x

Link to post
Share on other sites

Grewal,

This has been anwsered long time back and im pasting from sikh review and I hope it will help you.

Understanding Sikhism

Sikhism and Islam

Every now and then claims and counter-claims are made about Guru Nanak professing Hinduism or Islam. Vishva Hindu Parishad is the protogonist of the first proposition: the Ahmadiya Sect of Muslims advance the second theory. For enlightment of our readers, we reprint the late Bhai Sahib Sirdar Kapur Singh's response to an enquiry from the Haji of Mosul (Iraq) first published in the Missionary, January-March, 1963.

Editors, The Sikh Review.

Question: "I have heard it said that (Hazrat) Baba Nanak was a true Moslem believer, or, at least he was a great admirer of the Holy Prophet of Islam and a staunch supporter of the Koranic Revelation. I request for authoritative comments from some eminent Sikh theologian and scholar on this matter."

Answer: Guru Nanak, the founder of Sikhism, was born in the 15th Century in the North of India that had already been politically integrated to the organized world of Islam for almost 500 years. Arabic was already the official and cultural language at Lahore, a place only a few miles from the birth-place of the Sikh Prophet. Islam and its culture, was not only the dominant strain of the world civilization and culture of those days, but had also percolated into the common idioms and modes of thought of the North-Western Punjab. It was in this milieu that the oecumenical religion of Sikhism took birth.

Guru Nanak not only was in intimate contact with the Moslem learned men and centers of religion of Islam of those days, but he also made a close study of the basic Islamic literature. His knowledge of the fundamental Hindu sacred texts now being revealed through a critical study of the Sikh Scripture, is not only pleasantly surprising but it also impresses. Needless to say that Guru Nanak was thoroughly conversant with the texts and the teachings of the Koran. Since Guru Nanak was a Prophet in his own right and according to his own claim, he neither gives direct quotation nor makes precise references to Hindu and Muslim texts, as a mere scholar would be expected to make, and it is, therefore, only a trained scholar of Comparative Religion who can spot out and pin-point the exact sacred texts which Guru Nanak had in mind when delivering a particular Revelation.

When such a critical study of the Revelations of Guru Nanak is made, there is left no doubt in the mind of a balanced scholar that even when apparently affirming or repudiating a particular doctrine or text, the Guru almost always amplifies his own statement by added nuances of critical exposition. An appraisal of this character alone can make it clear that Guru Nanak had a definite and positive attitude towards the Koran.

The Koran has three distinct elements in its texts:

a. Dissertations on the nature of God and man's relation to Him

b. Pronouncements on Social organization and ethics

c. Statements on Judaic mythology

Guru Nanak ignores the last as irrelevant to the message that he has to preach to the mankind. He also considers this as uninteresting, for, he makes very sparse, if at all, even passing references to it. With regard to the second element in the Koran, namely, the laws and principles of social organisation and social ethics, Guru Nanak would seem to reject most of them as contingent and non-perennial. It is the first element in the Koran which the Guru takes seriously and on which he has made a large number of pronouncements.

The space and scope of this answer forbids any detailed discussion of this point and I would, therefore, just state that Guns Nanak seems to find most of it as worthy of consideration and even assent and he has explicitly incorporated its essentials in the Sacred Book of the Sikhs, the Guru Granth, though only after a personal digestion and re-interpretation.

I must make this statement slightly clearer.

In sura 2, called Albaqr, the Cow, for instance, amid brief disquisitions on a multitude of subjects, including pilgrimages, divorce, menstruation, the rights of women, proposals of marriage, and the need for killing the adversaries of Islam, there appears, quite unexpectedly, one of the grandest verses of the loran the famous throne-verse.

There is no God save Him, the living the eternal;

Slumber overtaketh Him not, nor doth sleep weary Him.

Unto Him belongeth all things in Heaven and on the earth.

Who shall intercede with Him save by His will.

His throne is as vast the Heavens and the earth.

And the keep of them wearieth Him not.

He is exalted, the mighty One.

It is this beautiful and noble text which claims the attention and general assent of Guru Nanak and it is this text which he has matched by his own famous text, the Sodar, that Gate, or The Gate, as there being no definite article in the Indo-Sanskrit languages, it can only be expressed as that,

Like what is that Gate?

With what compares that Abode?

By visiting where He sustains All?

Then in this text Guru Nanak goes to imply that the formal nature of this "Throne" is best comprehensible by human mind through reference to those areas of Reality that pertain to sound and feeling rather than those that pertain to visual and spatial aspects of Reality, as is implicated by the Koranic text. Herein Guru Nanak has the advantage of his acquaintance with the categories of the Samkhya school of Hindu Philosophy that categorises sound as the subject element of sensibilia and perception. It is only by a careful and critical analysis of such parallel texts in the Koran and the Guru Granth, that the true interrelationship between Islam and Sikhism can be properly understood.

Another grand verse, sura 24 in the Koran goes under the name of mishkatul-anwar. The tabernacle. This is the text to which the Mohamedan mystics and Sufis have returned again and again, never tiring of the mysterious Lamp whose rays bathe the whole universe:

God is the Light of the heavens and earth.

The similitude of His Light is a niche wherein is a lamp.

And the lamp is within a glass.

And the glass, as it were a pearly star.

This lamp is lit from a blessed tree.

An olive neither of the east nor of the west;

Almost this oil would shine though no

fire touched it.

Light upon Light, God guideth whom He will to His Light,

And He speaketh in parables to men, for He knoweth all things.

Now, Guru Nanak has taken an unmistakable note of this text. Guru Nanak was also familiar with certain Hindu sacred texts (Vaikunth, and Dipaparijvalanam in the Guradudapauranam) that speak of the Lamp that guides men here and hereafter, Guru Nanak has revealed a text which not only takes note of all these Moslem and Hindu sacred texts but which constitutes the Guru's own disquisition on the Lamp that guides. Guru Nanak opens by declaring:

My Light is the Name of One and only God.

And its oil is the pain and suffering:

The former is consumed and the latter is then done away with.

And, lo! there is no-doing between I and Death.

A large number of similar texts in the Guru Granth, are, in this manner, grounded in the Islamic and Hindu sacred texts but invariably the former have the content and identity of their own.

This is true and correct relationship between Islam and Sikhism. As for Guru Nanak's attitude towards the Muslim Prophet Mohammed, it has to be a matter of inference, for, nowhere in the voluminous Guru Granth, the name of the Moslem Prophet occurs, directly or indirectly, though Koran is mentioned by name more than once. The Sikh doctrine on the subject is sharp and clear, the born is perishable, and all praise is due to the Timeless. In so far as the Guru perceived excellence in Mohammed, he attributed it exclusively to the grace of God, and whatever was contingent, unenduring in the words and deeds of Mohammeqhe deemed as merely human and impermanent trait.

There is no other way of answering the question put by the learned Quadi from Mosul.

Link to post
Share on other sites

Grewal,

The below arguement was made on another website and it has good information to clear it. You is not for you but it was used for user of that forum. It was asked by Muslim member.

I had a good laugh at your suggestion that Guru Nanak was a muslim! Maybe you need to read page 1428 of the SGGS where Guru makes his opinions on reincarnation, pilgrimages (Hajj) and fasting perfectly clear! You suggested that its only after Guru Nanak that Sikhs believed in reincarnation, well I hate to dissapoint you but read the translation, it may clear things up!

I suggest that you stop believing the Islamic schollars whose material you read (they are obviously unbiased arent they?!) and just read Guru Nanak's direct opinion which can only be found in the SGGS as it written by him! Not by some clown 200 years after his birth who you seem to believe for some reason! You seem to keep on mentioning that Guru Nanak went to Mecca, but you conveniently forget to mention that he went there and pointed his feet at Kabba. When the Muslims asked him to change the direction of his feet because hes showing disrespect by pointing his feet at a place of god, he said move my feet,but wherever you move my feet god will be in that direction (sikh ideology: god is eveywhere). Hardly the typical actions of a person doing HAJJ!!!!!

As far as a non-Muslim not being allowed in Mecca, i dont think guru Nanak would have cared about any restrictions Muslims would have put on any land as he was guided by god to spread the truth. At the end of the day when Babar went to visit Guru Nanak, guru Nanak said to him that 'tu babar nehi tu jabar hai' this basically shows that Guru Nanak was not scared of anyone (babar was the mughal empire) or anything. Guru Nanak believed God is everywhere and there should be no worldy attachment (so this belief of only Muslims being allowed in Mecca would be against his Ideology and anything against his Ideology he would challenge!)

There also seems to be alot of meaningless points like Guru Nanak giving money to beggers, wearing certain clothes or the belief in one god. How can you say someone believing in one god means they are Muslim, that is a very frail argument. I didnt think Islam had a 'copyright' in the belief of one god! Especially since its far from being the first to believe in one god. The arguments of clothes and money to beggers implying he's Muslim are astonishing.

You say that Khalsa was created 200 years after Guru Nanak, but then Guru Nanak laid the foundations for it. Guru Gobing Singh was just the eventual successor of guru nanak. Guru Nanak actually gave his gurgaddi ('successorship') to Guru Angad Dev ji, was he a muslim? doesnt that answer the question. Saying that Guru Nanak came 200 years before Guru Gobind Singh means that he was not Sikh is like me saying Adam came an eternity before Prophet Muhammed hence he is not a Muslim! Do I see contradictions in your views?! Guru Nanak did have 5 prayers, but they werent Islamic prayers, if they were then why did he write the Jap ji sahib? which is the morning prayer God gave him. Another thing Guru Nanak had 5 prayers which he did 3 times a day, theres a difference!

You talk of this Saffron robe which is supposedly of Guru Nanak, but does this take prescedent over his own revelations in the sri Guru Grant Sahib where he says 'naa hum hindhu, naa hum musulmann', (if you would like exact page number and traslation you only have to request! I thought 1 was enough for you!). At the end of the day one thing for sure is that his written teachings have been preserved since his time, but can the same really be said about this supposed saffron, which has been kept in a predominately Muslim area for the last 300 years?

Another argument was that he went to Baghdad! This is the most comprehensive nit-picking argument I have ever come across! Guru Nanak also went to Saudi Arabia, Israel, Afghanistan, Russia, Nepal, Burma. He went to these places because he was a messenger of god. I guess the Christian Equivalent of you will turn around tommorow and say he went to Israel to go Jerrusulam because he was actually Christian!

I mean at the end of the day, by all means follow Islam and I hope you good luck in becoming one with God, but your arguments on Guru Nanak are just based on what you've read written by these Islamic schollars that you choose to follow. Ultimately the only truth of Guru Nanak can be found in the Sri Guru Granth sahib because he actually a lot of it HIMSELF.

source: http://asiapacificuniverse.com/asia_pacifi...ages1/1253.html

Link to post
Share on other sites
Guest BikramjitSingh

Waheguru Ji Ka Khalsa

Waheguru Ji Ki Fateh

Apologies for the longish post

These arguments presenting Guru Nanak as a Muslim have been used by a sect of Muslims called the Ahmedis ( or Qadianis ) since the 1890's. The Ahmedis though they profess to not believe in violent Jihad believe in using falsehood to convert people to their religion. In Pakistan they have been declared non-Muslims and they are actively persecuted by both the govt and the Muslims of Pakistan. It is human to feel some sympathy for them as many have been killed or jailed for their belief that the final prophet was not mohammed but Mirza Ghulam Ahmed who founded their sect in the 1890's. But when you see and read all the blatant falsehood they write about Guru Nanak then we should have no sympathy with them for the persecution they face in Pakistan.

Mirza Ghulam Ahmed wrote a few books in which he claimed to be Christ, Mahdi, Messiah and Krishna in order to win as many people as possible to his sect. He also wrote a few books where he claimed that Guru Nanak was a Muslim. He claimed 20 years of 'research' of Gurbani but he makes the elementary mistake of attributing a verse of Kabirji to Guru Nanak. He also makes a great deal of the Chola of Guru Nanak at Dera Baba Nanak. Ahmedis have no qualms about lying in order to secure a conversion to their faith, but this is also a Muslim trait as evidenced by the writings they are bringing to show that the Koran contained the scientific facts of today over 1400 years ago.

The Ahmedi tactic on the internet is to approach people by hiding behind a facade of 'wanting to learn more about the persons faith', they will liberally use term such as ' I am interested/want to learn more..' etc. This is not their intention, they want to see how much a Sikh knows about his faith and decide whether it is possible to lure him/her into theirs. If the Sikh knows his religion well and is able to respond to their subtle attempts of downgrade Sikhism and talk up their faith then they will leave him alone. At the end of the day, they measure their success by conversions and not by how interesting the discussion was.

If the Sikh is not firm or knowledgable in his faith they then plant the seeds of doubt. Terms such as ' I have heard that Guru Nanak was a Muslim' or ' Guru Nanak believed in Islam' are introduced. A few years I had occasion to reply to a request for a Sikh who had been similarly approached. After he passed on my article to the Ahmedi, she soon disappeared.

From my discussions with the Ahmedis they appear very ignorant of the Guru Granth Sahib and confuse deliberately it with the Janamsakhis. In the Janamsakhis , Guru Nanak meets many Muslim holy men where they approach him by putting forward their view that Allah, Islam and Mohammed are the only ones worthy of following. Guru Nanak always gives them his answer which counters the Muslim holy men's view. The Ahmedis select the Muslim holy men's quotes at those of Guru Nanak. This is why you will get quotes from the Janamsakhis with page numbers which the Ahmedis list as proof of Guru Nanak being a Muslim.

Gurfateh

Bikramjit Singh

Link to post
Share on other sites
Guest BikramjitSingh

Here is the full article which I posted on Sikhnet.com in 1998 in answer to a request for countering an Ahmedis belief that Guru Nanak was a Muslim.

Waheguru Ji Ka Khalsa

Waheguru Ji Ki Fateh,

Bhai Jaswinder Singh,

I read with interest your post regarding the questions put to you about Sikhism. Before I attempt to answer these questions I would perhaps be pertinent to write about the Ahmediyas and their founder Mirza Ghulam Ahmed.

Mirza Ahmed was born in 1839 in the village of Qadian in the Gurdaspur district of Punjab to a family of minor jagirdars of mughal descent of the Sikh kingdom of Lahore. His family had held some important post in the mughal empire but when the Sikh misls carved up the punjab between them, the forefathers of Ghulam Ahmed were deprived of most of their lands until they applied for their lands to be protected and submitted to the suzerainty of Maharaja Ranjit Singh and became petty fiefholders.

When the british took over the punjab this family transferred their loyalty to them. The late eighteenth century was a period of great religious turmoil and many of the religions of punjab were faced by the attacks of the christian missionaries. In order to face these attacks the Singh Sabha movement was born which aimed at reviving Sikhism to its past glory. The hindus formed the Arya samaj and Brahmo samaj while islam there was the tabligh and ahmediya movements.

Ghulam Ahmed wrote many tracts and newspaper articles defending islam against the Arya Samaj and the christian missionaries. His efforts were appreciated by many muslims but when in 1892 he declared himself to be the promised mahdi of islam and the second coming of christ. He also claimed to be an avtar of krishna and Guru of the Sikhs. His claims were naturally met with derision from all the religions of punjab and he became a victim of constant attack in the native press of Punjab. The majority of punjabis were conviced that he was a british agent. One muslim newspaper of lahore during the plague of 1898 reported the mirza ahmed had been taken ill with the plague and had died without repeating the kalima, that he had been buried in a jungle and than burial in a muslim cemetary near qadian had been denyed on sanitary grounds. A portion of his remains were said to have been devoured by wild animals and his followers were forced rebury him a second time. This report of course was false and underlines the feel

ings between the muslims of punjab and the ahmediyas.

The time 1890s were a time of great debates between the polemicist of different religions and mirza ahmed took part in many debates with christian missionaries and fellow muslims. In one debate with him and a muslim convert of christianity called Abdallah Asim in may 1893. The debate grew more and more acrimonious as it dragged on for 14 days. In the end mirza ahmed stated that he had received a divine message that unless Abdallah Asim returned to the true god within 15 months he would he thrown in hell within those months.

There was intense excitement towards the end of these 15 months when it came time to discover whether mirza ahmed?s divine message would be proved true. It is said that during this time at the ahmediya mosque in qadian, prayers were said all day and deep into the night for allah to vindicate his prophet ( ie mirza ).

When the 15 months expired and Abdallah Asim was still alive and as christian as ever, there was even more attacks on the mirza and he was denounced as a false prophet. In the ahmediya newspaper mirza wrote that on the night that the 15 month period expired he had received a divine message stating that since Abdallah Asim had not said anything derogatory about islam, he had been spared !!.

After the debate the christian missionaries were able to proclaim that the mirza?s brother in law had been converted to christianity as had three other ahmediyas who had been faithfully serving the mirza for many yaers.

Mirza ahmed also prophecised the deaths of his muslim opponents such as mohammed baksh who was a mullah who constantly wrote against mirza ahmed. Mohammed baksh had to suffer two attempts on his life, both by the placing of dangerous snakes into his house, one snake was thrown on his roof of mohammed baksh and it was found dead in the morning due to cold, another was discovered to have been placed at the staircase of his house.

Mirza Ahmed also wrote a great deal of literature trying to prove that Guru Nanak was a muslim and had prophecised the birth of Mirza Ahmed. He tried to gain as many followers as possible from other religions by claiming to be christ, krishna and guru of the Sikhs. He even claimed that jesus christ had not died as the cross but left palestine and travelled to kashmir and lived to a ripe old age preaching to the hindus. He conveniently discovered jesus?s grave in a street in Srinagar, the capital of kashmir where it had lain undiscovered for over 1900 years awaiting him !!

The mirza?s proof that Guru Nanak was a muslim rests on the following -;

1 ) That Guru Nanak went of the pilgrimage to mecca.

This much is true but the ahmediyas conveniently deny that the kaaba moved in which ever direction the Guru?s feet were put. This is a very selective use of Sikh tradition which is a ahmediya trademark. The Kaaba episode occurred to prove that as Guru Nanak said God is present everywhere and not constained within a cube like structure. This obviously is against the islamic tradition of facing mecca while praying. Therefore the ahmediyas use one part of the story to prove their point whereas the whole story disproves their theory that Guru Nanak was a muslim.

2 ) There is a chola ( cloak ) with islamic verses which belonged to Guru Nanak at Dera Baba Nanak gurdwara.

Again the ahmediyas have jumped the gun. The chola according to Sikh tradition was presented to the Guru at Baghdad by a local king . The fact that the Guru took the gift which was given lovingly and as a mark of respect and it passed on to the descendents of the Guru who also kept it does not in anyway prove that the Guru was a muslim. The chola is kept solely because it belonged to the Guru and not because it contains islamic verses. The ahmediyas assume that taking a gift and keeping in with respect necessary proves anything. Nowadays many people are given gifts or presented with articles but it does not means that they have assumed the religion of the givers. At many Gurdwaras in the west, important political leaders or public servants who are non- sikhs are given siropas and presented with Kirpans. Are we to assume that because these people keep these articles lovingly within their house or put them in display cases that they have converted to Sikhism !!

3 ) The Guru of Guru Nanak was a muslim called murad.

This is pure fantasy, if such was the case surely this name would appear within sikh tradition. If murad was the first Guru then surely the bani within the Guru Granth Sahib would all have ?murad? and Nanak as the name of the Gurus. The ahmediyas offer no evidence to substantiate this claim.

4 ) Guru Nanak has used a lot of islamic words in his bani.

Whenever Guru Nanak preached his message he used the language and term that his audience were familiar with. Therefore since Guru Nanak preached to muslims as well as hindus there is some islamic terms used in his bani. There is in any case more yogic terms and language in Gurbani then there is islamic, does this make Guru Nanak a yogi ??

5 ) Guru Nanak was married to a muslim woman

I will deal with this issue in my comment on the Bhai Bala janamsakhi

Any cursory look at the Bani of Guru Nanak in the Guru Granth Sahib shows clearly that Guru Nanak depeciated many of the main teachings of Islam. Would any muslim write these verses ?

bedh kateb bhed na jata ( SGGS Mahala 1 - page 1021 )

The Vedas and the koran do not know God?s mystery.

Since to a muslim the koran is the very word of God and an eternal tablet of it is kept in heaven how would a muslim write that it doesn?t know God?s mystery ??

Annh na khai deh dukhi deejey

bin gur gyan tripat nahi thhejey

He who eat not food ( ie fasts ) tortures his body

without the Guru?s wisdom he is not satisfied

Would a muslim who is required to fast during daylight hours for over 30 days say that he is torturing his body.

Guru Nanak?s Bani is replete with the belief of transmigration ( AAVAGAON ) with is in complete contrast of the heaven and hell of muslim belief.

Now to the questions.

1. In Granth Sahib (p.671) it says that the Awaited One will be of Moghul descent ie. Mir Makand ie. Mirza Makand..2nd coming of Krishna

This verse is actually by Bhagat Namdev and appears on page 727 of the Guru Granth Sahib. In this verse there is no mention of any ?awaited one? whoever that may be, it is simply a hymn where Bhagat Namdev sings the glories of God.

NAAM DAYV JEE: I am blind; Your Name, O Creator Lord, is my only anchor and support. I am poor, and I am meek. Your Name is my only support. || 1 || Pause || O beautiful Lord, benevolent and merciful Lord, You are so wealthy and generous. You are ever-present in every presence, within and before me. || 1 || You are the river of life, You are the Giver of all; You are so very wealthy. You alone give, and You alone take away; there is no other at all. || 2 || You are wise, You are the supreme seer; how could I make You an object of thought? O Lord and Master of Naam Dayv, You are the merciful Lord of forgiveness. || 3 || 1 || 2 || Hello, my friend, hello my friend. Is there any good news? I am a sacrifice, a devoted sacrifice, a dedicated and devoted sacrifice, to You. Slavery to You is so sublime; Your Name is noble and exalted. || 1 || Pause || Where did you come from? Where have You been? And where are You going? Tell me the truth, in the holy city of Dwaarikaa. || 1 || How handsome is

your turban! And how sweet is your speech. Why are there Moghals in the holy city of Dwaarikaa? || 2 || You alone are the Lord of so many thousands of worlds. You are my Lord King, like the dark-skinned Krishna. || 3 || You are the Lord of the sun, Lord Indra and Lord Brahma, the King of men. You are the Lord and Master of Naam Dayv, the King, the Liberator of all. || 4 || 2 || 3 ||

The words MIR mean lord or king, MAKAND means liberator and is a name of Krishna. These appear in the last line of this hymn.

This verse is from the Gurbani CD ROM with translation by Dr. Sant Singh Khalsa.

2. The awaited guru will be a Muslim -- Nau Kalunk (this has been taken

out of new edition of Granth, but it is in the old one).

There is no such word as nau kalunk is the Guru Granth Sahib. The bracketed words are particularly odious and underline a deep ignorance of Sikhism. There is no such thing as a new or old edition of the Guru Granth Sahib. The Guru Granth Sahib is Guru and is not liable to editing. The question implies that some sort of editing to take out some words has been done in order to conceal something. There can be no greater ignorance of the facts !! .The Guru Granth Sahib was complied by the Fifth Guru and elevated to the status of Guru by the Tenth Guru. In it we have the writings of the Gurus preserved by themselves for the future. It is an authentic scripture, whereas other scriptures were written hundreds of years after the founders of that religion passed away or as in the case of the koran were written down over four decades after mohammed?s demise and from what his followers chose to remember or put into the mouth of their prophet.

As regards nau kalunk, the actual name is NEH KALANK which is a figure of mythology that has appeared in hindu writings and in some parts of sikh writings such as Sau sakhi which do not have any scriptural sanctity. NEH KALANK means an avtar who is without sin. ( NEH - without KALANK - sin ).

I am particularly interested that you assume that ? without sin ? would refer to a muslim. What evidence do you have of equating the qualities NEH KALANK as proof that the so- called ?awaited one? is a muslim ??

3. When the awaited one will appear, his coming will be proclaimed into

the whole world and the sun and moon (rud and indar) will give his evidence . (Granth, p. 1298) At the advent of Mirza Ghulam Ahmad there was an

eclipse of the sun and moon in the same month of Ramadhan. It was a

cosmic sign in nature.

There is no such verse on page 1298 of the Guru Granth Sahib or in the preceeding pages. It would help if you could locate the correct page and I will comment upon it. I have searched the Guru Granth Sahib and the words rud and indar occur in many places but none in any verse relating to an ?awaited one ?

4. In Janam Saki Bhai Bala Walee VaDi Saqi p. 251 ....

Mardana (a disciple of Guru Nanak) asked him if there has ever been

anyone like Kabir Bhagat. He said all prophets are the same, but the

Awaited one will be bigger than Bhagat Kabir. He will be from JuTT tribe--farmers but will come after 100 years. What place and where will

he come? Mardana asked. Bava Nanak replied thathe will come

'BaTale deh pargana' ...(Mirza Ghulam Ahmad came from Qadian...pargana

BaTala)

It would be prudent to examine the history of the Bhai Bala janamsakhi. The Bhai Bala janamsakhi was written by a sect called the Niranjanias. Bhai Handal was a Jat ( relevant later ) who was born in 1573 in Jandiala village. Bhai Handal was a disciple of Guru Amardas. Bhai Handal used to be a great sewak in the Guru?s Langar and it is said that the Guru was impressed when he saw that Bhai Handal was sieving flour deep into the night for the langar. Guru Amardas appointed Bhai Handal to be his masand at the village of Jandiala. After Bhai Handal who devotedly served the Sikh cause his son called Bidhi Chand became his successor but he became infatuated with a muslim women, said to be of dubious character and much against the advice of local GurSikhs he married her. As this caused a great deal of consternation amongst the Sikhs instead of allowing himself to submit to the commands of the GurSikhs he became more egotistical and wrote a janamsakhi in which he belittled Guru Nanak by making Bhagat Kabir his

Guru ( many encyclopedias in the west still sprout this nonsense which was taken by Trumpp a german missionary from the Bhai Bala janamsakhi ) and making his father Bhai Handal ever greater than Guru Nanak. In fact he went a step further by stating that Guru Nanak had married a muslim woman. This Bidhi Chand did in order to explain his own marriage to a muslim woman. Bidhi Chand wanted to increase his following even further so he set out to show in the janamsakhi that the Guruship which at this time was with Guru Ramdas had in fact decended from Bhagat Kabir to Guru Nanak and then to Bhai Handal and finally to him. In order to show this, the janamsakhi has a sakhi ( story ) where it is shown that in a previous life, Guru Nanak had been a oil seller in the court of Raja Janak and Bhai Handal had been a noble or royal personage. There is also a sakhi which is what the 4th question relates to about the birth of a JAT in the pargana of Batala who would be greater that Bhagat Kabir. Bidhi Chand clearly wrote this

episode in order to show that Guru Nanak was prophesying the birth of his father Bhai Handal. This is clear because Bhai Handal was a jat whereas mirza ahmed of qadian was a mughal ( as the first question on mir makand points out. How can one argue that the birth of a mughal is prophecised in the Guru Granth sahib and seek support from another argument that a jat is prophecised to be born in the bhai bala janamsakhi ?? )

also the janamsakhi says that the jat will be born within a hundred years, as the events in the Janamsakhi relate to the period of the early 1500s so one would expect that the prophecy would be furfilled before the early 1600s and mirza ahmed was born in 1839 how can this be a prophecy of the mirza?s birth. As Bhai Handal was born in 1573 and the janamsakhi was clearly intended to belittle Guru Nanak and make Bhai Handal greater than Guru Nanak what better than to write a false story of Guru Nanak prophesying the birth of Bhai Handal. As Bhai Handal was born in the village of Jandiala which at that time was in the pargana ( or divison ) of Batala and born within 100 years of Guru Nanak then obviously this false prophecy relates to Bhai Handal.

I know that nowadays what with the prophecies of nostradamus gaining currency and their vagueness is taken for granted, but making a mughal into a jat, making 100 years last 350 surely even the gullible ahmediyas wouldn?t swallow that ??

It is interesting that a falsehood written to propagate a particular lie in the 17th century is now being used to propagate another completely different lie in the 20th !!

After Bidhi Chand the line of fake Gurus passed onto his son Devi Das until it expired with a descendent called Akil Das also called Haribhagat Niranjania. With each generation they became more and more islamicised and there is a quote from a muslim writer of the 1750s who called the niranjanias muslims in all but name. ( I have been unable to relocate this passage ).

In the time of Akil das they sided with the mughals against the Khalsa and Akil Das acted as a spy for the authorities and was responsible for the capture of the famous Sikh martyr Bhai Taru singh. In 1762 the Khalsa attacked Jandiala and Akil Das was forced to flee, and the sect of Niranjanias became virtually extinct only appearing as a sikh sect intermittantly in the british censuses of punjab. Nowadays they have completed merged with the local jat sikh population.

Bikramjit Singh

Link to post
Share on other sites
  • 1 month later...

well the argument is intresting, so are the comparisons .well first of all let us decide who is a sikh...the guru who relgn we are arguing about would have never liked this discussion .....lets sit back and talk to ourself what he taught us ...and we will realise being a sikh doesnt mean that ur not a hindu or ur not a muslim...

well it would be hard to distinguish between a true gursikh , true muslim and a true hindu...

the distinctions we make are cosmetic . we are taking offence of things which our guru would have not even bothered about...............

Link to post
Share on other sites

WAHEGURU JI KA KHALSA

WAHEGURU JI KI FATEH

i read parts of some of bhai bikramjit's posts on the ahmediya website. very informative ones indeed. and i must say those guys didn't have much sensible responses to answer him.

Guru Fateh

Link to post
Share on other sites
  • 9 months later...

Simple Answer :

Guru Nanak Dev Ji was a Hindu. His Fathers name was Sri Mehta "Kalu" and mother "Bibi Tripta". "Kalu" = Hindu surname. He was a Hindu, not a Sikh. Many Muslims want you to believe that for some twisted reason.

Pul Chuk Maaf

Fateh

Link to post
Share on other sites
  • 2 weeks later...

Guroo Nanak Sahib Nirankar was neither muslim nor Hindu. These people couldnt learn from guroo ji. Guroo ji came in this earth to teach these people to stop these fighting that there is no hindu or muslaman everyone is one rohooni jot of akaal purkh..realize that light in every being... after guroo nanak sahib ji left his body...there was fight between muslims and hindus. Hindus claimed that they want to cremate his body and muslim claimed that they want to bury him after they took him blanket from guroo ji body. There was no body. It was flower. Muslims took half of the flower and hindus took half and went home and learned their lessons.

Guroo Nanak Dev Nirankar is still known as baba nanak (fakir) by muslims , nanak lama(by buddhist)!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Guroo Nanak dev was nirankar himself in sargun saroop... you can count stars(taraie) but cant count how many people guroo baba nanak dev ji took across the world ocean :D :D

Ek Fakir, Ek Fakir, Ek Fakir Wadda Masatana......... :D

Link to post
Share on other sites
  • 1 month later...

.....sadly these claims are constantly recycled

U see during Guru Nanak's time the hindus and muslims used to get into a lot of agruements with each other. So Guru Nanak was trained under Khwaja Farid and after he had a plan to end these conflicts between the Hindus and Muslims. So he started his mission by telling the ppl that in God's eyes one is does not get closer to him by just having a label of a muslim or hindu. But what Allah's looks for is a persons inner faith(imaan). So after comming back form his long travels he decided to start a movement called the Panth movement. His muslim identity was kept a secret. He slowly started teaching the hindus to stop worshipping Idols and started bringing them closer to Islam. For the muslims he was started helping them towards Islam by becoming better muslim. Many of his hindu deciples started converting into Islam slowly. Maradana stayed him for 63 he never left islam. SO none of his deciples that were muslims left islam. However his death was near and he had to leave. He was not succesfull in converting all his hindus deciples into muslim but he took them away from idol worshipping. After he left a hindu named Lahina claimed Guru Nanak was a Prophet and he also told the ppl that he is his successor. And this plan was made by the hindus so the rest of Guru Nanaks hindu followers would turn away from Islam. And the term Sikh didn't even exist during Nanaks time. IT came into history during the 5th Gurus time. If u want more information i have some essays on this and we can start a new topic

http://www.shiachat.com/forum/index.php?sh...pic=33741&st=75

Link to post
Share on other sites

Who is that stupid who said that Guru Nank Dev ji came from Muslim. That's a disgrace to say that. We came from Hinduism. Guru Nanak Dev Ji started learning about Islam when he went to Mecca and not before since he would never sleep the opposite side of the ... His guru was a brahmin which educated him all the puranas, shahtras, vedas and so on.

I strongly disagree if my dear friends say that, we sikhs, have almost same features like muslims. Guru Nanak dev Ji, in sikhism reform, took most of Hinduism and hardly any Islam.

Can you believe that most of the terrorists noadays are from which religion?

I am not being racist and I am only being fair so that misunderstanding doesn't arise when you try to explain sikhism.

Sat Sri Kal

Link to post
Share on other sites

:shock:

....Nanak was possibly an Isma‘ili Shia Muslim himself who practised ‘taqiyya’ (pious dissimulation) by ‘appearing outwardly as a Hindu’. Taqiyya on the part of Nanak and his alleged Isma’ili Shia disciples, she suggests, stemmed from the fear of persecution at the hands of Sunni Muslim rulers. Moreover, the adoption of a Hindu form in order to present the Islamic content of his message, she contends, was perfectly in line with the traditions of the Isma’ili missionaries (’dai’s’) of north India at that time [sila-Khan 1997]. ...

:bling:

whats up with that?!! all kinds of muslim sects claim Guru

Link to post
Share on other sites

I disagree. It's good we are discussing about these things, but I won't discuss with people who don't know the history of Guru Nanak Dev ji and other gurus, including the holy book Guru Granth Sahib. I think my visit to Punjab was not useless so far and also the discussion with Guru Jeth and other Keshadwaris.

I conclude by ending my discussion with you- Sayana.

Waheguru ki khalsa

Waheguru ki fathe ji

Sat sri kal

Link to post
Share on other sites

Ya sayana...at least you said something right....we are no more hindu nor muslim....we shouldnt bother about these things.... Don;t be confused not everybody prays idols. The idols in the hindu temples are not god, claimed a brahmin. He said that they are gurus and these people do not pray these gurus but respect them and worship them just like we do in gurdwara- similarities are amrit, prasad, and foods served just like in our langar.

Only Kshatriya Hindus did not convert and fight against the moghuls. Others were left with no choice than converting into Islam since the latter believes that if you convert in their religion you can reach heaven. We sikhs believe in reincarnation or rebirth just like the Hindus. Our karma will decide our future births. If we are impure how can we reach Waheguru. No way. If we are forced to convert, can we reach Waheguru? No way.

Link to post
Share on other sites

Only Kshatriya Hindus did not convert and fight against the moghuls. Others were left with no choice than converting into Islam

You are quite wrong, especially when looking at which Punjabis converted to Islam.

In the case of Punjab, it was largely members of the Rajput community who embraced Islam. Rajputs as im sure you are aware of belong to the Kshyatria caste in Hinduism. There are more Punjabis of Rajput caste who are Muslims than non-Muslim Punjabi Rajputs...

Elsewhere in the sub-continent it was the Rajputs who would give their daughters away to the Sultans and later to the Mughal Emperors.

Link to post
Share on other sites

Dhan Guru Nanak Tuhi Nirankar

"aap narayan kala tar jag meh parwaryo"

God himself came to earth in his sargun saroop as Guru Nanak Dev ji

Guru ji were neither muslim nor hindu .

Guru ji started a new , ultimate panth " SIKH DHARAM"

" nanak nirmal panth chalaya "

Link to post
Share on other sites

Guru Nnanak Dev Ji came from Rajput- Kshatriya caste. Did he convert into Islam?

If you don't know the who story don't bluff.

Guru Nanak's family were Khatri, not Rajput.

Plus, that fact that Guru Nanak did not become a Muslim is of no relevance to this issue. The fact remains that it is a myth to think only "low caste" Hindus converted to Islam. In the example of Punjab, the opposite infact is true, it was mainly the so-called "high castes" who converted (ie, Rajputs).

Link to post
Share on other sites

Fateh ji.

Waheguru waheguru waheguru.

Rajputs didn't convert. It was the shrudras who converted. Ya definitely some rajputs and khatri did convert because the muslims threatened them to death should they refuse to do so. Forget this issue, its of no relevance.

What shall we discuss thereafter?

Sat sri kal Jahan.

Link to post
Share on other sites

Join the conversation

You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.
Note: Your post will require moderator approval before it will be visible.

Guest
Reply to this topic...

×   Pasted as rich text.   Paste as plain text instead

  Only 75 emoji are allowed.

×   Your link has been automatically embedded.   Display as a link instead

×   Your previous content has been restored.   Clear editor

×   You cannot paste images directly. Upload or insert images from URL.

Loading...
×
×
  • Create New...