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let's talk about amrit (not the person)


Sukhi
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i don't wanna create an argument. but i've got a couple of things that i wanna discuss.

i've seen a lot of people who say that ALL sikhs should be amrit-dhari and that children should take amrit as soon as they are born or of young age.

personally speaking, i have always been one to believe that taking amrit is a very personal choice and should be taken when one actually has a grasp of what Gurbani and Amrit is all about.

but maybe i'm wrong.

when is it right to take amrit? (and no, i'm not asking cuz i'm interesting in taking amrit. not that far ahead yet. i've got a lot to learn.)

sooo... is it right for us to give Amrit to children when their parents wish or is Amrit supposed to be given to those who understand the meaning of their actions a lil better than kids who don't even have a sense of consciousness?

(btw... no fighting!)

and one more thing. (this is gonna sound stupid cuz it's gonna look like i'm defeating my own argument, but i'm puttin it for u guys to think about while answering.)

is it right to consider age when taking amrit when knowing that a couple of our Guru's were considerably young when they became Guru's? doesn't that just show that we shouldn't look at age? or have i got it all wrong?

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I think this is an interesting topic, but for me it's an easy answer. Take it when you are ready to live your life as a true amritdhari. You have to make the decision, not your parents. You have to know all about it, and have to want it. With kids, most don't know what it means, and won't until they're older. I have seen little kids in Gurudwara that have taken amrit because of their parents, but they run around like other kids cursing and being disrespectful. Not saying that kids can't/shouldn't take it, but it should be an individual choice. One that I don't think most kids can make rationally. On the note of the Gurus, I think they were far more enlightened at the younger ages than say you or I.

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i've seen a lot of people who say that ALL sikhs should be amrit-dhari
thats would be amazing, wouldn't it! :D . By the way one of the rehitnamas (which I posted in another thread) states that only an Amritdhari can be called a Sikh. However, I am not going to debate over that.

and that children should take amrit as soon as they are born or of young age.
not really! :roll:

personally speaking, i have always been one to believe that taking amrit is a very personal choice and should be taken when one actually has a grasp of what Gurbani and Amrit is all about.
true :)

when is it right to take amrit?
check this out :

http://www.sikhawareness.com/sikhawareness...highlight=amrit

is it right for us to give Amrit to children when their parents wish
NO!

is Amrit supposed to be given to those who understand the meaning of their actions a lil better than kids who don't even have a sense of consciousness?
YES!

is it right to consider age when taking amrit when knowing that a couple of our Guru's were considerably young when they became Guru's?
Gurujee is jyot, not mere mortal body. Guru Amar Das Jee became Guru at the age of 72, and Guru Harkishan Jee at the age of 5. Its Divine Jyot and has nothing to do with the age of the physical body.

doesn't that just show that we shouldn't look at age? or have i got it all wrong?
You don't exactly have it all wrong, but age matters only for us mortals, and so yes once a kid is mature enough to understand the responsibilities he/she can very well take Amrit. There are people who took Amrit at a very early age and follow their rehit strictly till date. Besides everything else, one needs loads of kirpa of Gurujee to take Amrit and follow the rehit completely. Mere efforts on our part hold little value without kirpa, which is why you will find many people who do take Amrit but prove to be the worst possible examples for others.
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wjkk,wjkf

to the best of my knowlegde sikhi doesn't agree with 'child baptism' as is done in many other major world religions. This is because once you have taken amrit you are given the status of the adult, you now have to conduct yourself in a way in which you take full responcibility for your actions. Now whether you're ready to do this at age 11 or age 20, it doesn't make much of a difference...

stay in chardi kalaa

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Gurfateh

In my personal opinion, I would state that one should take amrit when one is committed to the path,panth and has understanding of Sikhi and Gurbani as that individual, again in my view, will stay committed and follow the path properly and what I have meant by that is that the individual will follow Sikhi with full respect and honour.

Gurfateh

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alright... so we're basically all in agreement with me for the moment. but i saw this lil section elsewhere on our wonderful site and i wanna know what u think about it. i'm not gonna mention any names and i'm not trying to pinpoint someone here. i just wanna know how one would reply to a Sant/Mahapurakh...

and yaa i remember one katha been told by one sant mahatma ji i dont remember his name but i remember his teaching it was when we r born before that we are in our mother stomach and hanging upside down there with very bad surroundings i should say thats the real hell as guru ji describes because we never know about the next pal we will be alive or dead and at that time we pray and promise lord waheguru ji that please save and protect me let me see the outside world by my own eyes and he grants us this precious life of human being only at one condition that we promised him that we will never forget his naaam and will always praise his words untill we die but as soon as we come into being we just forget him and thats it start doing all sins and just abide our guru ji thats the reason when the baby is born he should have amrit paan and should be shown the true path of lord waheguru ji as there after it will be too late to handle the sitution acc to me aas been told by guru ji
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and yaa i remember one katha been told by one sant mahatma ji i dont remember his name but i remember his teaching it was when we r born before that we are in our mother stomach and hanging upside down there with very bad surroundings i should say thats the real hell as guru ji describes because we never know about the next pal we will be alive or dead and at that time we pray and promise lord waheguru ji that please save and protect me let me see the outside world by my own eyes and he grants us this precious life of human being only at one condition that we promised him that we will never forget his naaam and will always praise his words untill we die but as soon as we come into being we just forget him and thats it start doing all sins
true

when the baby is born he should have amrit paan
NO
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Is there a difference between Khanda Amrit and Amrit/Amritatva (immortal/immortality)?When is Amrit vela?The time early in the morning?Or the time when you're given the bakshish of Amrit from Amriteshvar?

You know Hath Yogi's believe that Amrit is a meta-physical essence or liquid which is produced by the "moon" situated in the head, but is consumed by the "sun" in the stomach region.They belief that in order to capture Amrit, they have to perform the khecari mudra.

And Amrit was one of the things which came from the sea when it was churned by the gods and anti-gods.Is it possible to churn the ocean again? :wink:

Amrit eh?It's a difficult one.What do I know about Amrit and Amriteshvar?I'm just a pakhandi. :LOL:

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I will attempt to answer my own questions above about Amrit.

Is there a difference between Khanda Amrit and Amrit/Amritatva (immortal/immortality)?

Yes and no.There is no difference between physical Khanda Amrit and Avinash Amrit, provided Khanda Amrit is prepared properly.How Khanda Amrit is prepared "properly", I do not know.

When is Amrit vela?The time early in the morning?Or the time when you're given the bakshish of Amrit from Amriteshvar?

Both.The time before sunrise and the "time" when the seeker of Truth is bestowed Amrit from Amriteshvar Itself, direct.

If someone is given Amrit, and is granted Amritatva by Amriteshvar, do they still need Khanda Amrit?

Damn, this is a hard one.If I say no, then people will think I am demeaning Khanda Amrit.But my answer is no.If someone has had bakshish from Amriteshvar, then they are Amritdhari, be they from any walk of life.

Does Khanda Amrit grant immortality?

Yes.If the Khanda Amrit has great Shakti, then it will grant immortality.That is if it has Shakti.

Is Khanda Amrit the Amrit of Shakti Mata?

Yes, I am convinced of this.Khanda Amrit is Amrit of Aad Shakti Par-Shakti.It is Guru Shakti only if it is made properly.Otherwise I believe it is just sugar water.I wonder how many people who prepare Khanda Amrit are worthy of making it?

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I

Yes.If the Khanda Amrit has great Shakti, then it will grant immortality.That is if it has Shakti.

a question, are u saying immortality in the sense of Shakti, a supernatural power of immortality while living in this body or the liberating wisdom that leads to immortality in the sense of freedom from maya.

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a question, are u saying immortality in the sense of Shakti, a supernatural power of immortality while living in this body or the liberating wisdom that leads to immortality in the sense of freedom from maya.

The Goddess is there....within...without....All is One.All meanings maybe come to One meaning?She is there, feel Her.My sweet darling.She is beauty.I am trying to convey this.I probably sound like an idiot.That is because I am an idiot.

She is there.She is Death, Wisdom, Emancipation, Liberation.She is Khanda Amrit.I'm sorry for not answering your question properly.

She serves Satguru Nanak.

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no i think you conveyed it pretty good, it was almost poetic....you stopped too soon without considering someoen could actually absorb your message :) . Fools are the most wise.

The reason i asked was because you had said in the previous post about preparing Khanda Amrit, now to my understand that is the Khanda Bata Amrit that is prepared for Amrit Sanchaar. Is that the Same Khanda Amrit you speak of that could have Shakti which can lead to immortality. So in turn Shakti Maa is Khanda Amrit, but how can that be prepared by the hands of a mortal that can lead to immortality?

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There are three layers of amrit.

First layer of amrit: Khanda Bhatta da Amrit: Amrit in its physical form...all 5 drops of amrit you drink to purify your body..5 drops in your eyes and 5 drops on your dasam dwara so that kamal can flourish at the right time.

Second Layer of Amrit: Naam Amrit...This is given by Panj Pyareiz...when they give you naam amrit..you have to make sure the panj pyareiz has bhagti jeevan....these days amrit has became a joke because panj pyareiz have no bhagti jeevan...thus, creation of malech khalsa's and all inside the panth. Amrit in puratan maryada was never given but gained with lot of seeva and lot of naam simran first. Then it was gained and blessed by guroo maharaj ji.

Sant baba isher singh ji always used to say this:

If one of panj pyareiz is bhramgyani...person who took amrit is greatly benefited because naam that bhramgyani in form of panj pyareiz give you has lot of kaamiya(Acculmation of Naam) in it.

If all panj pyareiz are bhramgyanis...person who took amrit dont even need to make an effort to reach stages of meditation....naam given by them.. has soo much power that will take the person across the ocean regardless...

Third Layer of Amrit: Bhramgyan Amrit/Gyan Amrit. This is the main purpose of amrit..to give you jivan mukhti. That is gained by doing prema bhagti and naam simran of naam(gurmantra-vahiguroo) given by panj pyareiz.

Giving children amrit has pro and cons. If amrit is given by sant mahapursh in form of panj pyareiz then i would say...dont think twice...take amrit because thats a amrit in its real form..because santa da millap bhaga waleh nuo hunda hai...you will be getting the same amrit which was given by panj pyareiz to satguroo gobind singh ji maharaj because panj pyareiz have spiritual jeevan unlike panj pyareiz with no jevans..so dont worry about the children ...if he is intiated by a bhramgyani (in form of panj pyareiz) he is paar (across the world ocean).

Amrit is a must from panj pyareiz or your murshad..whatever form you like to beleive in..Amrit is must..without intitation even nard muni (son of bhrama) didnt get mukhti and had to come back to this earth..did murshad dharan... we are just kirraie(worms)....

Nirgura ka hai naam bhora...gurbani says this...gurbani also says this:

"The mortal, who is without the Guru's Mantra, accursed and contaminated in his life" Panna- 1357

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