Guest Sardar Moderator Singh Posted September 29, 2004 Report Share Posted September 29, 2004 Also on a side note, for those interested in the reference to Viking Beliefs, Ragnarok ("Doom of the Gods"), also called Gotterdammerung, meaning the end of the cosmos in Norse mythology. It will be preceded by Fimbulvetr, the winter of winters. Three such winters will follow each other with no summers in between. Conflicts and feuds will break out, even between families, and all morality will disappear. This is the beginning of the end. The rest, I'll leave you to read about...sounds immensely like the scene set forth in the Kalki Avtar, Dasam Granth. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hari Posted September 29, 2004 Report Share Posted September 29, 2004 GanM, You're still proselytizing.You said you were'nt but you are.You're not a Christian are you?Or one of those airy fairy New Ager's?Sorry for making these petty assumptions about you GanM.Just copying your style :wink: . 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GanM Posted September 29, 2004 Author Report Share Posted September 29, 2004 I am not trying to get you to convert to anything. I want you to be a Sikh. I am only asking you to rationalise and moderate your interpretation of what it means to be a Sikh. Smoking is evil and your pesh kabz is good (so good that it's god)? Just think about it (don't let NNS do your thinking for you). 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hari Posted September 29, 2004 Report Share Posted September 29, 2004 I am not trying to get you to convert to anything. Yes you are.You're trying to get us to think your way.Stop this denial. I want you to be a Sikh What's one of those?? I am only asking you to rationalise and moderate your interpretation of what it means to be a Sikh. No. Smoking is evil and your pesh kabz is good (so good that it's god)? Smoking is not evil.Pesh kabz is pesh kabz.It is not God, it is Goddess.Why do you think in terms of good and evil? Just think about it (don't let NNS do your thinking for you). What??Who do think I am?Nihang Niddar Singh is who he is, and I accept him for who he is.I don't want to be like him.I don't want to be a Nihang Singh.I think for myself according to Vahiguru Hukam (I know that's a paradox).I like paradox.... 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GanM Posted September 29, 2004 Author Report Share Posted September 29, 2004 According to your own doctrine, smoking is verboten and your weapons are the bees' knees (so to speak). Where's the wisdom in such a skewed philosophy? Why are you following it? When you call a piece of metal "Goddess", why? Are you being completely honest with yourself as to why you are carrying that thing? Why do you attach religious connotations to the most deliberately-harmful things in your possession? Is it because it enables you to silence your own conscience about the dreadful harm you KNOW it can do? Are your elaborate justifications simply a way to cheat your own conscience? You say you are not the Doer, but you are. You are the Doer who will hurt your victim with your weapon, and the courts will put you on trial as the Doer when you do so. Your victim's family will see you as the Doer too, and whatever consequences YOU or US have as a result of any violence you inflict will not affect the imaginary or otherwise entity that is not yourself that you blame for everything. I am pleased that you are not following in the footsteps of NNS. Nobody else should either. There's clearly something wrong (based on insecurity) when someone makes becoming a threat to others one of their goals in life. Is paradox for you food for thought or a way to find comfort when flummoxed by your own choices? Why do you say you "like" it? It does'nt make any sense when you say you like paradox. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Javanmard Posted September 30, 2004 Report Share Posted September 30, 2004 Dear GanM What is so different between the 17th and 21st centuries? You call the 21st century a pacified era: what a joke!!! The greatest massacres of all times happened during the 20th century and were orchestrated by regimes that according to your values are progressive, regimes that have imposed their ideologies on their dis-armed citizens retaining the monopoly of violence in the hand of the state! Disamring citizens is the best way for any regime to impose its ideology and oppression! Western socities in the 21st century are progressively losing their rights won in the 20th century by the left wing (revolutions are made with AK 47): all of this in the name of progress!!! Your only argument lies in this quite "blonde" statement: "Hey Singhs give up your shastars, it's the 21st century now and everything's fine! No need to carry weapons!!!", says the naive person who through tax money and his consumerism sponsors state violence and multinationals that oppress poorer countries!!!!! Quite poor as an argument my dear!!! Find a better one!!! It's seems that you are the one living in the Matrix believing that rebellion against unjust oppression is not needed. You are the ideal slave of a capitalist state that needs sheep like you to obey in a docile way. If oppressed you won't respond back: you are a dictator's wet dream!!! You are Bush's and Blair's dream! You are the dream of every single oppressive regime be it capitalist, socialist, fascist or even fundamentalist! John Lennon who thought like you got shot by a psycho! You seem to forget that self defence is a RIGHT! John Lennon chose not to use it! You say I am pure evil... I accept the compliment! :twisted: :twisted: :twisted: :twisted: :twisted: 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hari Posted September 30, 2004 Report Share Posted September 30, 2004 Fight the power!!!! Jai Mahakal Kalika!!!! 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GanM Posted September 30, 2004 Author Report Share Posted September 30, 2004 Nyorai this is not my paradise. I cannot breathe clean air here (you know what I mean). If I thought it would preserve or defend freedom to inculcate 17th century warrior ways to some impressionable kids (not a condemnation - I'm a kid myself although not impressionable) I would sign on the dotted line!! But it's not like that, as we both know. It's a violent oppressive cult for which the prefix "neo" and and the word "tools" seem required in any balanced description of its followers. The blueshirts are not free - they are under the command of warlords (e.g. NNS). I have more freedom than they have, without the weapons. I can say whatever I want. I share your concerns about the actions of the pirates who seem to be in charge of the world in the 21st century. However, I believe that the way to change things is through love. No matter how powerful their armies may be, they are utterly useless if the people don't support the idea of having a particular war (say, the war in Iraq). No democratic government would risk going to war, without the population in support. Ultimately, it opens up the fear of them being dethroned, and that's the fear we have to use against them. Consider the effect of demoralising an army in any particular circumstances. Imagine if, say, the West attacks Iran but the US and British soldiers refuse to bomb the shrine of Imam Ali! Utterly disastrous for the governments concerned, and it could be the turning point vis a vis who holds the balance of power!! But you won't achieve it with your cutlass. You will achieve it by informing and educating. I am immovable. However, with your baggage you are easily pushed around. What I mean is that through the media we are always being manipulated to support the next war, sponsored by the "business" (pirate) interests behind it. Iran can't afford to channel its own CNN, Reuters and BBC through the televisions of the rednecks who populate the UK and the US. That's why pirate raids for oil can still be undertaken even today, and that's why the EICo persists (with a new name), why slavery persists, etc. Informing and educating is the biggest challenge you have to face, because you do not control the media. That makes it an uphill struggle. YOU can be defined and therefore manipulated. Would'nt it be better to be formless like water? That way, you would be free to abandon the swords and axes when they are no longer useful (like now), instead of becoming something of a museum exhibit yourself. Lions these days are kept in cages. They lost the jungle. If you want to bring the jungle back (like I do) you can make a start by accepting help from friends and allies rather than trying to undermine them. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hari Posted September 30, 2004 Report Share Posted September 30, 2004 GanM is th prophet of the New Age!!He is immovable.Bullshit mate.Looks like you don't understand Kaal and it's ways.Kaal pushes everybody and everything around matey, including you. You underestimate Sikh of Satguru Nanak Nirankar and overestimate yourself.I've never come across anyone who made so many assumptions about other people as you do. Carry on as you are.(BTW I do not carry any kind of weapons ).Kids nowadays, I don't know :roll: . 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GanM Posted September 30, 2004 Author Report Share Posted September 30, 2004 You just said that Kaal pushes everyone around. When it pushes you around, you will have to change your ways or else just fade away into extinction. I will be unmoved. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GushK Posted September 30, 2004 Report Share Posted September 30, 2004 Guru Gobind Singh was an insurgent/guerrilla fighter. He used information and propaganda extremely adeptly How dare you call my Guru, My Father, from who's mouth the words of God have come, a mere insurgent/fighter of an old era. To say such a thing is an insult to every Sikh. He made us in his image. One who was One with Waheguru, and you're saying that he was wrong.....?! 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GanM Posted September 30, 2004 Author Report Share Posted September 30, 2004 GushK, what are you talking about? Did'nt you understand my post? 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted September 30, 2004 Report Share Posted September 30, 2004 Let him clarify first.... if he doesnt appolize..we will ban him from this site. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hari Posted September 30, 2004 Report Share Posted September 30, 2004 You just said that Kaal pushes everyone around. When it pushes you around, you will have to change your ways or else just fade away into extinction. I will be unmoved. Good for you. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GanM Posted September 30, 2004 Author Report Share Posted September 30, 2004 Neo, do you believe in karma? May I suggest that you see your own powers in context. Here's another site you may find interesting: http://punjabi.net/ GushK has rather heavily paraphrased. The full text of what I wrote is as follows: "Guru Gobind Singh was an insurgent/guerrilla fighter. He used information and propaganda extremely adeptly (much as Sikhs and other groups continue to do to this day). The quote you cited is an example of his skill at information warfare, and his amazing ability to inspire loyalty, trust and bravery in the face of an overwhelming threat. He was from a different, much more violent and intense, time and age. Let's keep his works in the museums/places where they can be easily referred to for the purposes of historical research. They do NOT apply to today's world. We've moved on from being lions, tigers, goats, horses, donkeys, etc." I apologise if I hurt your sentiments, but for the sake of avoiding misunderstanding let me make it clear that I have no beef with the Sikhs (I'm unmoved by the fact that I was barred from becoming a Sikh by the Sikhs themselves) or with Guru Gobind Singh. However, I maintain that bearing arms (even though he commanded it for his followers in his own violent times) has no place in our pacified and regulated societies today. I make no apologies for that, and I have backed it up with some solid reasons. If you hold Guru Gobind Singh in reverence be assured that I respect your choice and do not ask you to change that. I am only asking you to change your interpretation of his religion, so that you do not have a violent or threatening outlook on life. My own perspective is that Guru Gobind Singh has passed on, and we should not take offense on his behalf for expressing our opinions (which he probably would have allowed us to have if he was still around). 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GushK Posted September 30, 2004 Report Share Posted September 30, 2004 Apologies for sounding very confrontational on my first post. But, what I must point out is that. Guru Gobind Singh Ji HAS left this world and merged with the eternal Satguru but :- He crafted us in his image His words came from Waheguru, not his own opinions. Waheguru is everlasting... The Guru Granth Sahib is everlasting... the 5 Kakkars given to us are his gifts, gifts from waheguru.... It would probably be easier for me to remove my head and give it to you than it would be to part with ANY of my kakkars. to merely even refer to the kirpan as just a knife or weapon is extremely disrespectful. On another note, as stated before, it is the person behind the weapon and not the weapon it self which is dangerous. As long as there is greed, lust, anger on this earth there will always be people who can and will resort to violence. Who will be there to protect them? The law? The law of a country gives power to a policing force who have the right to carry weapons to enforce peace and justice. Where is the difference? Our right to bear arms, to be the enforcers of Truth, Justice, defenders of the weak, comes from Guru Gobind Singh Ji, not any old country or political regime... If you looked at what is required to be amritdhari, to be given the right to wear these gifts, you would see that the use of our kirpan is only when all other methods have been tried and failed... Our spiritual conduct and mentality specifically forbids the use of force unless absolutely necessary. Can you sincerely put this amount of trust any any other police force in the world (especially when there have been so many cases of police brutality) Waheguru Ji Ka Khalsa, Waheguru Ji Ki Fateh 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Javanmard Posted October 6, 2004 Report Share Posted October 6, 2004 Guru Gobind Singh, a guerilla fighter? Why not say that Jesus was a reiki healer and that Buddha created the first healthy living club? Reducing Guru Gobind Singh in that role is to imprison the Divine in the cage of history. In many ways this is your problem: history has become your master. But dear GanM history is written by the acts of great men and women. It is with that sword that you hate so much that Guru Gobind Singh wrote the concept of Sikhi in the red ink of his own sacrifice on that paper we call the heart. Sublime calligraphy ... Dhan Dhan Guru Gobind Singh!!! 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted October 17, 2004 Report Share Posted October 17, 2004 Moderator"s Note: Message edited. Read the guidelines before messaging flith here. If you got problem with GANM.. take it over the pm or beat him on intellectual. We dont allow personal attacks on this site. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dynamic_Banda Posted November 13, 2004 Report Share Posted November 13, 2004 I agree with GanM, these are modern times where we have leaders, police, democracy, fbi, ganja, lsd, mushrooms, etc etc, Weapons are manifested evil, pure evil with no good purpose. They serve to kill nothing more, as a person once said a sword at a mans side is nothing but an extension of his penis. An attempt for men to feel more manly. GanM is not attacking anyone, his initial statement was quite an amazing post and I totally agree with every point raised. I too attended NNS shastarvidya classes only once or twice. And its obvious that the weapons on display are made not for ones protection but to kill.. A bullet proof vest is made for protection, and they can be bought and worn on the streets it is not illegal and not offensive to anyone. Weapons have sharp edges, or are made to pearce flesh and wound. A less harmful weapon would be ideal, there is no need for kirpans when we have pepper spray,stun guns, personal alarms. and everyone has a mobile phone nowadays, its 3 digits and your safe. 911 for the us lot 999 for the brits dont know any other coutries but im sure with abit of phone vidya one could dial to the police faster then an other could pull out a knife. However I do have a question i wish to raise with you GanM, you seem to be the most reasonable of men, as stated in your own post earlier if one has a problem you will do all you can to aid in finding a peacful solution. I have a big problem, and I will not lie because I trust you will not judge me and will help me with open arms. My problem is lobh, greed I do not wish to fight against lobh but wish to take a more peaceful route, too many years I sat seeing men holding their wives and girlfriends in their arms happy and all loved up, and I too wanted that out of pure greed, I wanted their wives their girlfriends, etc etc not because they were attractive simply because the other man had it and i wanted it. For too long I sat fighting these natural insticts animalistic instincts.. now I wish to take a peaceful non violent non aggressive stance against lobh, I wish to embrace it with open arms. So this is were I ask you to help me, I have a greed and a desire for all that you have your women, your money your car your home your life, I want it all, and I will not fight against lobh anymore. The law allows adults to share their wives, its called swinging, and contracts allow one man to sign over all his possessions to another, so embrace me and take into account what you said about providing a peaceful open armed solution. Do not take this as an attack I am serious, 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted November 14, 2004 Report Share Posted November 14, 2004 woooooohooooooooooooooooooooooo, bring backa post fromt he last century lol 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dynamic_Banda Posted November 14, 2004 Report Share Posted November 14, 2004 akali sodhi im a user from the last century.. i see i missed out on alot. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sukhi Posted November 15, 2004 Report Share Posted November 15, 2004 geevus brice... even i was like, "man is dynamic an old fogey or what?!"... Ganymede's already gone, and u reply looooooooooong after he/she left. bechara/i, didn't even tell me if he was a he or a she. oh well. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dynamic_Banda Posted November 15, 2004 Report Share Posted November 15, 2004 well then i ask anyone else to fix my problem.. please im lonely.. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Beast Posted November 15, 2004 Report Share Posted November 15, 2004 http://sikhawareness.com/sikhawareness/vie...5698&highlight= This may help 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sikh_fauge Posted November 15, 2004 Report Share Posted November 15, 2004 Thanks for the promotion beast spread the word brothers! 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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