Nirmala origin myth or reality?

[Guest]

It’s only natural that a Nirmala would want to believe in a fairy tale sakhi like this which talks about how the nirmalas were created by Guru Jee and sent to Kashi to become the future Vidwaans/priests (Brahmans) of the Sikhs.

Singh47,

I believe that every Sikh has right to question anything, which he/she has doubt about, so there is nothing wrong in your posts. But I would like to know from Nirmalas and other Sikhs of this forum that do all Nirmalas accept authority of Jatts or only one or two Akharas? Also, what I have read or heard about Nirmala origin is that Guru Gobind Singh Ji asked Pandit Raghunath to teach Sanskrit but he humbly refused as there was rule at that time that only high caste hindus were allowed to learn Sanskrit.

I never heard or read anything where Jatt Sikhs were made fun of?

Please, can we have authentic references to these claims from our old historical texts?

Here is something about Nirmalas from Encyclopaedia of Sikhism, Harbans Singh.

Nirmalas

A Scholarly Sect of the Sikhs

derived from Sanskrit nirmala meaning spotless, unsullied, pure, bright, etc., is the name of a sect of Sikhs primarily engaged in religious study and preaching. The members of the sect are called Nirmala Sikhs or simply Nirmalas. The sect arose during the time of Guru Gobind Singh (1666-1708), though some, on the authority of a line in the first varof Bhai Gurdas (D. 1636), claim, like the Udasis, Guru Nanak (1469-1539) himself to be the founder. Guru Gobind Singh wanted his followers not only to train in soldierly arts but also to cultivate letters. Especially during his stay at Paonta, on the bank of the River Yamuna, from 1685 to 1688, he had engaged a number of scholars to translate Sanskrit classics into current Braj or Punjabi, in order to bring them within easy reach of the less educated people. Guru Gobind Singh once asked one of these scholars, Pandit Raghunath, to teach Sikhs Sanskrit. The latter politely excused himself on the plea that Sanskrit was deva bhasa, language of the gods, and could not be taught to Sudras, i.e. members of the low castes. To even this caste bias Guru Gobind Singh sent five of his Sikhs, namely Karam Singh, Vir Singh, Ganda Singh, Saina Singh and Ram Singh, dressed as upper-class students, to Varanasi, the centre of Hindu learning. These Sikhs worked diligently for several years and returned to Anandpur as accomplished scholars of classical Indian theology and philosophy. In view of their piety and their sophisticated manner, they and their students came to be known as Nirmalas, and were later recognized as a separate sect.

After the evacuation of Anandpur in 1705, the Nirmala preachers went to different places outside the Punjab, particularly to Haridvar, Allahabad and Varanasi where they established centres of learning that exist to this day-Kankhal, near Haridvar, Pakki Sangat at Allahabad, and Chelan Math and Chhoti Sangat atVaranasi. When, during the second half of the eighteenth century, the Sikhs established their sway over the Punjab, some of the Nirmala saints came back here and founded at different places centres which were liberally endowed by Sikh chiefs.

It was customary for Nirmala scholars to attend, along with their disciples, religious fairs at prominent pilgrimage centres such as Haridvar, Allahabad and Gaya, where they, like other sddhus, took out shahis or processions and held philosophical debates with scholars of other religious denominations as a part of their preaching activity. Sometimes these scholastic exercises led to bitter rivalry and even physical confrontation. During the Haridvar Kumbh in 1855, a general meeting of the Nirmalas held in their principal dera at Kankhal took the first concrete step towards setting up a central body by electing Mahitab Singh of Rishikesh, reputed scholar of the sect, as their Sri Mahant or principal priest. Mahitab Singh attracted attention of the rulers of Patiala, Nabha and Jind with whose help a panchaiti akhara named Dharam Dhuja was established at Patiala in 1861. Its formal inauguration took place on 7 August 1862. The headquarters of the sect, however, remained at Kankhal. The sect comprises several sampradayas or sub-sects each with its own dera and its own following.

The Nirmalas believe in the Ten Gurus and Guru Granth Sahib. Taking the baptism of the Khalsa is not compulsory nor common among them. As a distinguishing mark of the sect they don at least one of the garment in ochre colour. They generally practise celibacy and are devoted to scriptural and philosophical study, but by tradition they are inclined towards classical Hindu philosophy especially Vedanta. Their contribution towards the preaching of Sikh doctrine and production of philosophical literature in Sanskrit, Braj, Hindi and Punjabi is considerable. Some of the important works that contributed to Sikh learning in general and the elucidation and regeneration of Sikh principles in particular are as follows: Sangam Sar Chandrika by Pandit Sadda Singh of Chetan Math, Varanasi, is commentary on a Sanskrit work on Advait philosophy, Advait Siddhi, Pandit Tara Singh Narotam (182291) wrote several books of which Gurmat Nirnaya Sagar (1877) and Guru Girdrath Kosh in two volumes (1889) deal with philosophy of Sikh religion. His Sri Guru Tirath Sangrahi is a pioneer work on historical Sikh shrines in and outside India. Another famous Nirmala scholar Pandit Sadhu Singh wrote Shri Mukh Uakya SidhantJyof and Guru Sikhya Prabhakar (1893). Giani Gian Singh (1822-1921) is known for his contribution to Sikh history. His Panth Prakash in verse appeared in 1880 and Twarikh Guru Khalsa in prose in 1891.

Source: Encyclopaedia of Sikhism, Harbans Singh

[Guest]

In Zafarnama Guru Gobind SIngh talks about the Brar section of the Jatts. Is Zafarnama a fairy tale as well now?

As far as, my understanding goes Guru Gobind Singh Ji is giving assurance to Auranzeb that he does not need to fear Brars as they were known dacoits of that region and used to attack and rob people.

I think you are referring to following passage.

On the way, there will be no danger to your life,

For, the whole tribe of Brars accepts my command. (59)

[drawrof]

very interesting point to fathom now,

when the term "jat" is used...is meant as agriculturist or is it a tribal distinction consisting of modern day "jatts"...

this can clear up alot.

Personally, I Think people are missing the greater picture. That being that a "class" of people may have been sent as opposed to a tribe of people. Modern day jatts as an agricultural class (include arains/sainis, jats (dhillons, manns, brars, sidhus), malhis, and some rajput clans)... as a TRIBE jats include people of a specific bloodline etc....

I understand the whole phenomenon to be of using "caste" by the guru's to eliminate discrepancies caused in the guise of caste. Yes we are singhs, but there are brothers of ours who are not singhs...they may have the last name "brar"...so why can't my brother be referred to by his title...its only in my world that he "should be" a singh! (I hope you guys get the point).

alright take care..

[Guest Javanmard]

I believe in the religion of Love, whatever direction its caravans may take, for Love is my religion and my faith - Ibn 'Arabi

[drawrof]

meaning its a meritocracy right?

wow.....those were the days!

[Guest Javanmard]

I believe in the religion of Love, whatever direction its caravans may take, for Love is my religion and my faith - Ibn 'Arabi

[Guest]

I think we cannot deny the fact that Nirmala Institution played very big role within Sikhism, so there is no doubt about it.

I have few questions the ones come to my mind, so I would like to get simple anwsers from our members to clear my mind. Please give me simple clarification to following questions.

1. Which is the oldest source, which says that the five Sikhs, who were sent to Kashi by Guru Gobind Singh Ji, if so, were Jatts?

2. Where has it been written that only a Jatt can be the 'Sri Mahant'? What is the source of this information?

3. Is the "Sri Mahant" the chief of a particular Akhara/akharas, or is he the chief of all the Nirmala institutions, like Dera Nagali?

4. Which one is the older institution, Dera Nagali or Panchayati Akhara?

5. Which is the oldest source, which says Bhai Gurdas Ji went to Kashi to learn, and not to preach?

[Singh47]

Lalleshwari, again if this story is true, as you claim it is, then why just Jatts? Why not other Shudras like Lobanas, Tarkhans, Mazhabis, Chamars? Why just Jats? Also by sending certain Sikhs because they happen to be born from Jat households, would then imply that Guru Gobind Singh Jee acknowledged their caste even after taking Amrit! This in itself disproves this fake Sakhi. Again this just sounds like a fake Sakhi that some Jat came up with to maintain Jat dominance within a Sarmpradah. Is it any wonder that only Jats are allowed to become the Jathadars.

[Guest Javanmard]

I believe in the religion of Love, whatever direction its caravans may take, for Love is my religion and my faith - Ibn 'Arabi

[Guest]

ha ha

[Singh47]

..

[Singh47]

NO, you prove it with ideology not history!

[vijaydeep Singh]

Wahiguru Ji Ka Khalsa Wahiguru Ji Ki Fateh

Kindly take a deep into life of Bhai Mani Singh Ji,

Das has just obtained an information that there were 13 people including Bhai Mani Singh Ji who are fore father of Nirmalas.

Once a Sikh then no Jat or Brahmin,So Sikhs sent by Gurudev were Sikhs for him but Jatt for Pandit Raghunath Ji.

Lastly when a non Jat and a non Punjabi (Das him self is from Bihari Sahu or teli family)is giving the testomony of casteless and regionismless nature of Nirmalas thhen what else proof you need. Pradhan Singh47 Sahib. There are many Nirmala deras in Das's state where Mahant is non Punjabi even forget about jatt.

We are not like the Brahmins put in negitive term of Chhandogy upnishad that we keep on distrusting us. We have all freternity of Khalsa.Das want to put to you that if you could trust a fellow Sikh(das) then trust that as such there is no caste based things in true Nirmalas.

Often the deras are run under trust,where Mahant is more like a rubber stamp.Mahant is not the head of Dera but head servent of the dera(monestry),who as to serve all humans,Nirmalas or non Nirmalas alike.often some mahant do not make thier own family considering human race as thier family.

Often various deras are closely linked by a democratic set up of Parliamenat called Panchayat(which is in turn is part of Greater Akahra Parishad,Which also include other hindus or udasis or niranjanis(r they not the same of Baba hindal ? Akharas).But deras are autonomous.Panchayat intervenes if any thing against the code is happening in any deras.Matters can go to legal court too.

As Khalsa order Nirmala can be summoned for Tankha from Takhats.

Das is about to confirm it. On demand five beloved can baptise a female. In history at the start of 20th centuary when female were not given baptism like male,A sant from the Nirmala order also has said that they too need salvation and hence Amrit. It was in tune with the idealogy of Prof Gurumukh Singh and Bhai Sahib Bhai Randheer Singh.

Das think idealogy factor is clear.

Das tenders an appology if wrong or offending words are typed.

[Guest]

Check out updated nirmala website:

http://www.nirmalashramrishikesh.org/

[Guest Sardar Moderator Singh]

The Jat issue has been discussed many times before on this forum with respect to the SGPC and now the Sampradhayas.

It is interesting to note that almost all the texts referenced and cited as authenticating such practices of the Sampradhayas are written predominantly by ‘Jat’ scholars. The best example of this is Gyani Gyan Singh, who is frequently referenced by Sanatanists and others alike, however just like modern neo-scholars such as Madan Singh Apollo Road, Birmingham (author of raagmala text on Tapoban site) who like to insult the likes of the puratan Scholars such as Kesar Singh Chibbar because he is a Brahmin, a similar reactions and attitudes is often found with others as well, when his works do not suit their agendas.

Gyani Gyan Singh’s works are replete with pro-Jat attitudes, with his treatment of the Ramghari Misl and figures such as Jassa Singh Ramgharia and Nihang Sukha Singh (Kalsi) being typical examples of his pro-Jat and anti-Tarkhan views.

Gyani Jee himself was a Dulat Jat. As such, Gyani Gyan Singh also seeks to accord himself status equivalent to that of Kavi Sainapati and Kesar Singh Chibbar (i.e. as Gur Darbari Kavis) through claiming that Bhai Mani Singh Shaheed was a Dulat Jat.

Any one who wishes to look into the matter will soon discover that this is a patent lie and that Bhai Mani Singh is in fact a Kambhoj.

This type of manoeuvre is typical of many Jat ‘scholars’ of both the puratan and modern era and has a significant role in the Jat-nepotism that can be found equally in today’s Sikh organisations such as the SGPC, AKJ and Taksal and as well the Sampradhayas, despite their alleged promotion of a caste-free Sikhi.

In the interim, the Admin’s questions still stand and we request Nirmala Scholars on this site, namely TSingh and Shaka Nyori to please address these appropriately.

Kind regards,

SMS

[vijaydeep Singh]

Ek Oankar Wahiguru Ji Ki Fateh

Das agrees to SM Singh on one point,Some people remain Jats from within inspite of Becoming to look like Sikh.

As far as fake tat Khalsa hypocrtes are concerned this true.

As per a Sikh,whith Dalit hindu ancestors.

Reason for seperate Ramdasia,Ravidasia or Valmiki place of worship is due to 'high Caste' people not allowing the member with Dalit hindu ancestor any say in management of Gurudwaras.

In Bhatinada area das has heard that there are even some Gurudwaras where people having contradictory name 'Dalit Sikh' are not allowed.

To the some extent orgainsers are justified because often These Brother with Hindu Dalit ancestors also do some wrong things like,

Still maintaining the old hindu tradition of idol worshipping of Ravidas Ji or Valmiki Ji(Both are respected in US but not worshiped) or Calling term Guru Ravidas.But with encouraging them to assimilate with Sikhism they can be eduacted and they will bouond to shun these practices ,which is there habit,that makes them to cling to pre Sikh caste identity.

But worst thing done by some former tat khalsa people for which Panth will never forgive them is something else:-

Dr. Bhim Rao Ambedkar wanted to convert to our faith.He was to be followed by 6,00,00,000 persons.He could not do.present day missionaries related to AKJ or Kala Afghana(later type of 'purist' of Adi Guru Darbar still argue for Jat cause and say that at a time one person can be jat and Sikh,term they use is Jatsikh(see http://www.sikhsundesh.net/jats.html))So such people blame congress or Mr MK Gandhi for Mr Ambedkar failure to be Sikh.

A person like Ambedkar,always remained ,a pain in neck for Mr Gandhi,how can Gandhi Ji could change his plan.

So where the things go wrong ?

Das is not giving the name but many 'Sikh Leaders' of that time were giving more value to there position or chair.

There views were how can we give our Golden Temple to Six Crore untouchables.Non of them had enough confidance to counter the personality of Ambedkar so they feared that if he is made a Sikh,He will overshadow them in leadership and may become leader.

So today Sikhs are only 2.5 crores.Irony is that today the alternative religeon(Ambedkar chose to be converted) ,budhism is on comeback trail in India.There population is slowly increaesing.It shamefull that many Dalits of Punjab have also converted to Budhism.

Unlike Sikhism,Which preaches self respect and love to nation,These neo budhists often dance on the tune of there western oh! sorry that is the case for Christians,these guys dance on the tune of Eastern masters ie Japan. They are always filled with haterd not towards hinduism but towards the majority community of India ie Hindus.Those few short sighted leaders just in order to maintain there 'jat' majority in Panth had made a big harm for the welfare of Panth.

But is not yet over.Sikhs may be given or rather are given another chance by Akal and this time do not repeat the mistake.

Some pseudo hindutva forces also are trying to spread hoax that all Sikhs institutions are run by 'jat mafia' and equality in Panth is not practicle.Sikhs like those hindutva fools are also covertly castist(They think us like them).Things are neither so bleak.

Das can say this thing at least for Taksalis and Nirmalas(and other Sanatan Dharmis as well).For that to put some thing on Nirmalas das asks the permission from SM Singh Ji.

Das also Ask him question,

What value of Suraj Prakash Granth of Kavi Churhmani Santokh Singh Ji has in his(SM Singh Ji's) eyes?Is it OK or not?

[Guest Sardar Moderator Singh]

Dear Vijaydeep Singh,

Gur Fateh Parvaan Hove!

Thank you for your informative post. With regard to Suraj Prakash Granth, I am not entirely sure what you mean by "is it OK or not".

I will say this much that Kavi Santokh Singh is a splendid poet and his works are testimony to that.

Regards,

SMS

[vijaydeep Singh]

Gurfateh Parwan ho!

SM Singh Sahib Ji,

Here das starts a few things.

Das is not aware about what Nirmalas of Punjab say or Punjabi dominated Deras do.Das still could not contact his own Dera but via Punjabi known person a few deatils regrading Baba Ram Singh Jis Ashram as follow:-

Mahant can be any one who does good service to the community.In there website one Sant has surname sodhi,Sodhi can be one with hindu Khari Ancestors with dynasty of Kush(or luv Das does not rember exact) and lived in towen Sanorh(Vichitra Natak).Sodhi is also a surmane of hindu caste who are Nayak/Gola/Barber.So this thing is false that all Jats can be Mahant.Ture Nirmala does not sees the caste.not even the Bad deeds of Past as Akal reforms all.

Next regarding Amrit Dhran.

First Nirmala may give a sort of Diksha or Nam Dharan(Radha Swami Shiv Dayal Singh was Nirmala and had Taken Naam from them only,He only started a Branch of Nirmala calling it Panth of Anami(Nameless Akal).Only two of his follower Rai Bahdur Saligram and Jaimal Singh(of Beas) seprated it from Khalsa,The younger Brother of Shiv Dayal Singh became a respected Nirmala by Baba Atal (Swaroop) Singh.He was Vrindvan Singh).

So a Nam Dhari/dixit can be without 5ks.That person can be a patit or clean shaven.Then that person is told to do Simran and Sewa of Sangat .

The same person when he/she reaches a high spritual level then askes for Amrit Sanskar.

Female can also be Baptised.Sant/Mahant intiates Baptism.

Nirmalas allow Idols.So that an Idol worshipper too come to them and do not fall into the trap of misguiding Panda etc.

They do not have any seperate Granth of there own but all Granth of Sikhs and Even non Sikhs are respected by them.

so now das comes on history part.

Suraj Prakash Granths Katha(Explaination of history) was done in one Gurudwara related to Rara Sahib.Das privately asked about Nirmalas history to Kath Vachak(perfomer of Katha) about Nirmala history.

das was told that yes in Suraj Prakash also there is a mention of Nirmalas.

So Das first saw Bhai Veer Singh version but as it was Gurmukhi script in Braj dialect das could not find it(Das Gurumukhi script is not very good so Gurbani in Nagri is easyly understood by Das).

Then das came acrross the version of Suraj Prakash by

Pandit Narayan Singh Gyani(Mujang ,Lahore)

By Giani Trilok Singh.

This too was in Gurmukhi but language was Punjabi and instead of poetry it was in article type explantion.Das also checked another version of Suraj Prakash Granth.

So as told in that Granth,There is a mention of Nirmalas.

It starts that Gurudev in Paonta made many Pathan fighers as mercenaries. Employed Rajpoots wariiers too including Vachitar Singh.

Likewise in education/art also 52 poets were in court.

THEN NIRMALAS ARE MENTIONED FIVE SIKHS WERE SENT TO BENARAS TO STUDY SANSKRIT.THEY ARE AT PRESENT CALLED NIRMALAS AND PREACH SIKHI IN THE REOMTE AREAS OUT OF PUNJAB.

In other version perhaps the name were also given.

After that letter of Punjab Kaur (wife of Ram Ray) to Gurudev is metioned.

Das has only given the summery(all things occuerd in Paonta Sahib).

Book of Prof Sahib Singh gives date of there going to Benras as Samwat 1742 Vikrami and that place at present called Chetanmatth.Yes in Benaras this more then 3 hundred year old institution of Nirmala still remains.had it been hoax then all this proof were not there.Five initial Nirmalas name are still there.

Regarding the concept of Oral traditions,There is no book das has come accross which since the times of Gurus Say 'Tu Thakur Tum Pe Ardas.. ' or 'Tudh/Jh Agay Ardas Hamari..' from Adi Guru Darbar is to be sung before Ardas.or sometime Ardas can starts just like that.Maybe das is wrong.

May this is also written in any book to say at last of Ardas 'Nanak Naam Chradi Kala..'

Das here only wanted to sat Oral Traditions also are something.

Next das come to Pandit Raghunath episode.In Suraj Prakash Granth (which das is quoting) it is NOT there.They were sent for education and gain knowledge in Benras.Some books state that they went in the form of saffron Clad so that considering them Brahmins the Brahmins may impart there trade secrates of Ayurveda or Astronomy to them else if they would have found them non Hindus they may not have been considered.

One writer calls it final assault in the bastion of Brahmins.They were a few families who were keeping secrates knwoleges of India restricted to them.Gurudev wanted whole mankind to get light of it.That was the task of covert mission of Nirmalas.

So if Pandit Raghunath ever refused them..

First how can Gurudev have a court Pandit,Was he a hindu who needs Pandit in court.

Answer could be that we was not a pandit or prist but a schoolar kept in court to imapart knowledge.

Maybe these five men were from bachground of labour intensive jobs.To teach 'wild' people may not have been within the capability of Pandi RaghuNath so he might have told Gurudev his incapability and not unwillingness,Das 's assumption can be wrong here.Urban people get education faster then rural as the intial 5 Nirmalas.Or perhaps that was the reason that they dressed up like Brahcharis so that Pandits of Benaras understand that they a tough Brahmcharis and expert could teach them.These all are assumptions of das and can be wrong.

Das would also like to clarify to any of his hindu brother who thinks that Nirmalas are Brahmins as often they carry title of Pandit.Yes Nirmalas are Pandits,Brahmins as per old scriptures of Hindus and as per Adi Guru Darbar but they are not always born in the family of Brahmins.

There birth can be in Jat,Teli,Jatav or Valmiki family but dust of the feet of Guru Roop Sadh Sangat(Good company in the form of Guru) Make them Brahmins or Pandits.

Lastly not only Suraj Prakash Granth has mention of Nirmala.

Das has seen the Maryad(code of cunduct) written by Bhai Daya Singh Pyra.He has Maryada for Sikhs like Akalis,Nihungs and seprate extra do or donts in Maryada of Nirmalas.

Bhai Sahib were contempray of Gurudev and he wrote it after becoming Singh.So Nirmalas are Singh also.There Maryada contains something extra then rest of Sikhs due to nature of there jobs.

Das as yet did not get the Granth Mangal Prakash(it was Panj Sau Sakhi) but at prsent called Sau Sakhi as only hundered testomonies still remain.

Das will give update from it after reading it ,whenever possible.

(Note: Not only Namdharis,But Sanatan Sikhs also read Sau Sakhi,So are Tat Khalsa,So are Damdami Taksal and So Are honourable Akhand Kirtani Jatha,Namdharis rather misinterpret sau Sakhi,Like when Guru Talks of his form in futre it is Khalsa ,the special form of Guru and not Baba Ram Singh Ji,Baba Ram Singh Ji were great Sikh,role model for us,his sacrifise is respected and even considerd as trend setter for all Sikhs alike,If RSS uses the name of lord Rama does not make him wrong,so Namdharis using name of Baba Ram Singh Ji odes not make him wrong either)

Das tendr apology if something wrong is written.

[Niranjana]

Can any of the Nirmalas on the forum explain the relationship between the Nirmalas and the Hazoori Singhs, particularly of old with regard to the massacre of Nirmalas from Punjab by the Hazoori Singhs.

I wish to understand why these Nirmalas were killed by the Hazoori Singhs yet the Nirmalas on this forum still speak of Hazoor Sahib as ideal place for Maryada and Sikhi, yet clearly they do not welcome Nirmalas with open arms given this and other events and feelings evident amongst the Hazoori Singhs in general.

[Beast]

Doesn't this concern time, space and circumstance? By that I mean that at that particular time the Nihangs did do those things, but does that mean that those feelings have always been prevalent and will always be prevalent?

There may be a lot of things in our history that are not good...and asking Nihangs/Nirmalas to qualify those actions with regard to their present attitudes to Hazoori Singhs is a little unfair. (ps Although I am aware of the incident, I am not aware of the specifics of what happened...so if I said something stupid then I apologise)

[Niranjana]

Dear Beast,

"time, space and circumstance" -doesn't this apply to everything! Why does it stop having a discussion or investigation into affairs?

Anyhow, as you are unaware of the event, the Nirmalas (not that the Hazoori Singhs of old refer to them as such!) headed down into Nanded, however upon being challanged with regard to their lack of observance regarding the 5 Kakkars amongst other matters (re: their desire to take over the locality, just like the Nihangs did prior to them, owing to the riches that had flooded into the area after its patronage from the Nizaam and Maharajas).

Contrary to what maybe indicated on this site, the majority of Nirmalas are not Amritdhari and certainly the sanatan sites and lectures support this observation. Hazoori Singhs of old were particularly strict in their rehit and the laxness displayed by Nirmalas in this aspect and their underhand attempts to seize control won them enemies in the form of the Hazoori Singhs and the Nihangs.

[Beast]

Thanks for the info!

Just for clarification though, it wasn't my intention to suggest that a discussion/investigation should not occur. Its just that I wasn't sure whether you wanted present-day Nirmalas (eg Shaka Nyorai) to defend the actions of Nirmalas from that time period.

[Narsingha]

From the Hazoori Sikhs and Akali Nihangs I have come across during travels to Nanded/Punjab/UP some of them consider Nirmalas as traitors. These are some of the reasons given against certain Nirmala Sikhs (not all):

a) they sold out to the British Raj (esp around the Patiala region), and subsequently took part in spreading "Angrez Sikhi" in its various guises

they adopted certain Nihang traditions, altered/pacified them to suit the British Raj

c) some Nirmala scholars it is claimed, attempted to "write Nihangs out of history"

d) inherent cynicism amongst Akali Nihangs and Hazoori Sikhs towards non-Nihang "intellectuals" and "scholars"

e) they are guilty of giving birth to today's passive and impotent form of Sikhism

f) they encouraged and nurtured the "Sant" phenomenon amongst Sikhs to gain prominance above the Akali Nihang Singhs

g) they began to slowly take the emphasis away from the 'ShastarDhari" Khalsa and encourage the 'Satoghuni' Khalsa

h) they encouraged vegetarianism and tee-totaller ideology, and in some cases spoke out against traditions of 'chatka', 'sukha', 'chandi pooja', 'tilak' etc.

Please note, these are just the OPINIONS of those individual Hazoori Sikhs and Akali Nihangs whom I managed to speak to with regards to Nirmalas. Also, before anyone starts to beat their chest and throw accusations of "nindiya", please remember, these arent MY views, nor the views of the Akali Nihang Baba Durbara Singh Sanatan Sikh Shastar Vidiya Akhara, or for that matter the Budha Dal. These certainly arent the views of ALL non-Nirmala Sanatan Sikhs, indeed, some hold great respect for all Nirmala Sikhs.

...as ever, everyone is entitled to air their opinion.

[Niranjana]

Thanks for the info Narsingha, only point I would contend with is the matter of Baba Santa Singh's views on Nirmalas and given his status as Shromani Jathedar of the Buddha Dal, which as Sanatan Sikhs here have indicated many times, is the premier institution of the Panth and all Akali Nihangs, Nihangs, Khalsa Singhs (amritdharis) technically owe allegience to this institution and Baba Santa Singh as its head is the leader of the Panth, according to these traditions, would imply that the Budha Dal view of Nirmalas cannot be too different from that of its Jathedar.

[Narsingha]

Within the Budha Dal, it is accepted that every Nihang does have a different take on things, but when it matters, and on more general aspects, they will come together in agreement. Akali Nihang Baba Santa Singh is fully aware of this, and in accordance with Gurbani, he is aware that everyone's perspective varies according to their 'Buddhi' (intellect/wisdom/experience/EQ) and their 'karams' and 'Guru Kirpa'. However, allegiance, honour and trustworthyness is expected from those in key strategic positions...regardless of whether they may agree with their superior or not.

Even those Akali Nihang Singhs and Hazoori Sikhs who have issues with Nirmalas, but are genuine to their way of life, will not refuse to break bread with them and sit side by side to discuss Dharam. There may be minor disagreements, but these pale in comparison to the common ground.

That is how Sanatan Sikhs function, they may be as varied in appearance, maryada, traditions, and perception as they come, but they know how to come together without any problems...thats the beauty of Dharam.