SAadmin Posted October 28, 2004 Report Share Posted October 28, 2004 This is a really interesting portrait of Guru Sahib - the author has claimed its contemporary ie. painted when Guru Gobind Singh visited Raja Siddhasen. Thanks a million to freed. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Freed Posted October 28, 2004 Report Share Posted October 28, 2004 Dear N3O S!NGH, Thank you for helping me to post this portrait - ever since I have seen it- I have been trying to post it here to get the Sangats views and feedback. The picture comes from 'The Sikh Heritage - a search for totality' by Dr Daljeet. 2004 Prakash Book Depot. It's on page 126, the description states: " A portrait of Guru Gobind Singh Mandi, Pahari, end of 17th century, Paper, 20x18 cm, Acc. no:71.93 Collection: National Museum, New Delhi. This portrait seems to have been rendered in 1690's when Guru Gobind Singh visited Mandi and was in all probabilities a personal guest of Raja Siddhasen. As such it amounts to its rare historicity. Its Takri inscription - Guru Gobind Singh, too is a special feature. " Dr Daljeet states this has never been published before - has she found the holy grail of Sikh portraits ? Has she found a true contemporary portrait of Guru Sahib? Has anyone seen this portrait before or been to see it at the museum. Please post your feedback - your input is greatly appreciated and anticipated ! 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Singh47 Posted October 28, 2004 Report Share Posted October 28, 2004 That’s an ugly portrait. It’s insulting to think that Dasam Pita would even resemble that. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
karmjeet Posted October 28, 2004 Report Share Posted October 28, 2004 this photo looks insulting 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Beast Posted October 28, 2004 Report Share Posted October 28, 2004 That’s an ugly portrait. It’s insulting to think that Dasam Pita would even resemble that. lol, shall we get the original and burn it because it challenges our beliefs. Whether it's a close resemblance or not is irrelevant, what matters more is that our perceptions have been threatened :wink: 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Singh47 Posted October 28, 2004 Report Share Posted October 28, 2004 bumb 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Beast Posted October 28, 2004 Report Share Posted October 28, 2004 No, I quite clearly agreed with you. This is someone's portrait of Guruji that seems to have been rendered in 1690's when Guru Gobind Singh visited Mandi as a personal guest of Raja Siddhasen. If the person wasn't already dead I wud have kicked their ass. And even though it's rare I say let's make it rarer and burn it (a la SGPC). 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Beast Posted October 28, 2004 Report Share Posted October 28, 2004 huh? weird, your post said something difft to "bumb" b4. Scary thought: if (and this is just a hypothesis), IF this really is a resemblance to Guru Gobind Singh Ji, you just called them ugly! omg :shock: 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted October 29, 2004 Report Share Posted October 29, 2004 lol at the beast man 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Singh47 Posted October 29, 2004 Report Share Posted October 29, 2004 yeah I wonder what happened.. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
drawrof Posted October 29, 2004 Report Share Posted October 29, 2004 waheguru ji ka khalsa, waheguru ji ki fateh it is not in my nature to flame anyone, but I can't stand this insolence! do the guru sahibs have to fit your version of what is goodlooking? and what is your version of goodlooking based upon? (most realistically society, eh?......I find it disgusting that absolutely disgusting.) what if guru gobind singh were around right now? would you turn around and say.."guruji, you don't fit my version of "handsome"...hence I can't follow you"....absolutely sickening! The superficiality expressed by those who have made comments about this being "ugly" have just gone down a notch on my credibility list, since it is more than evident that you can't handle the truth IF it is ugly shameful 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SAadmin Posted October 29, 2004 Author Report Share Posted October 29, 2004 I agree with drawrof compeletely.... People need to open up their eyes and smell the art out of the usual bhai sobha singh art of sikhi ! 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
amandeepm Posted October 29, 2004 Report Share Posted October 29, 2004 During this century the gurus have been portrayed by Indian artists using the ideal of the European. Most paintings depict the Gurus as White blokes weatring turbans. This has spread into the depiction of Maharajahs (Ranjti Singh in particular) and some of the quite ridiculous depictions of characters like the Rangharia Sardar (there is anpother thread on that somewhere). We have become so conditioned to that, that when any alterntive is offered it is referred to as ugly. I have been meaning to get Dr Daljeets book asnd read her rationale for thsi picture. obviously there needs to be rigorous look at this image amandeep 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
drawrof Posted October 29, 2004 Report Share Posted October 29, 2004 amardeepm, point very well taken. If this is an actual portrait, we as a group should be thankful and proud that something that is close to reality is part of our heritage. Take out dogma, take out ideology, our religion can make its impression on the world of heritage and art as stance for truth. We as sikhs have a distinct image, that much of the eurocentric world does not find visually appealing...we don't look like beckham or brad pitt. accepting this, if it is actually a real depiction or an actual portrait, will say to the world... a) we respect our guru's (figureheads...figuratively speaking) as prodigal human beings who have empowered others...and it doesn't make a difference if they don't look like calvin klein models we respect art and adore our heritage (A mark of a cultured society) c) k, you may find this picture "ugly"...but what this picture means is found in guru gobind singh's life and his words waheguru ji ka khalsa, waheguru ji ki fateh 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Sardar Moderator Singh Posted October 29, 2004 Report Share Posted October 29, 2004 Amardeep Singh Madra, Thank you for your comments, you are spot on with the recent trend towards casting the Guru's in the image of westerners, Sobha Singh started the trend with his images based upon his late father (for the portrait of Guru Nanak) and others like G S Tethi have proceeded with the 'ridiculous' images of Jassa Singh Ramgharia with a pink dastaar, not to mention the even more hilarious statues made by Nanaksar and Ramgharia Gurdwara Slough. It is amusing to see how much cultural conditioning affects us, we have those arguing that tying up beards is wrong and an evil brought in by Maharaja Sher Singh to appear more 'presentable' for the British yet we have those who can't handle a non-europeanised image... 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Javanmard Posted October 29, 2004 Report Share Posted October 29, 2004 Well I have seen other pre-colonial portraits of Guru Gobind Singh which do not look that ugly.With all due respect even by pre-colonial Indian standards: this isn't the finest of portraits you are going to find. The style of the painting shows that much care has not been taken and to be honest I doubt very much that Guru Gobind SIngh looked like that! In all the puratan literature he is described as being extremely handsome to the point that women used to fall in love just by looking at him!!! Take the examples of Rup Kaur and Anup Kaur who even tried to seduce Maharaj! I doubt very much that the person on that portrait is the one that is described in all of our sacred texts as the Shahn Shahn Shah! Pyara SIngh Padam in one of his books shows another contemporary portrait of Maharaj and it is far better... 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hari Posted October 30, 2004 Report Share Posted October 30, 2004 Shaka is right.Puratan Sakhi's always describe Satguru Gobind Singh Ji as handsome.But this picture is interesting.It could be propaganda.I have a picture which is displayed at Sachkhand Shri Hazur Sahib.The Satguru looks good, and I have also seen a male member of the Sodhi family that looks just like that Shri Hazur Sahib picture. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
drawrof Posted October 31, 2004 Report Share Posted October 31, 2004 I still stick by my point, this looks more like a portrait than the hazoor sahib one, and I have seen many khatree sikhs that resemble this picture....so that logic isn't all that plausible in my eyes. Another point to mention, what we find attractive is also subject to the norm at the time. Lets look at women for example, in the early 30's, 40's...voluptuous women were considered sexy now, women who are skinny are sexy. Further, this is a side profile view. We don't see a front projection in this, it isn't cartoony at all. The only thing about this picture that I personally find a bit "odd" is how guru sahib is depicted to be in his 50's. Another thing, the guru's had an ilaahi noor, they had an Immense tej pratap.. on another note (unrelated to the guru's), many women find ron jeremy hot.....I beg to differ, but he must have something! take care, and hopefully we can find out more about this. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hari Posted October 31, 2004 Report Share Posted October 31, 2004 Hey man I love voluptuous women!But I've had another long look at this picture and it's sort of grown on me.I do find it a little cartoony.The nose is way too big for the face.But it is interesting, can't deny that. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
drawrof Posted November 1, 2004 Report Share Posted November 1, 2004 :wink: @ hari, keep your wicked posts coming bro, you put a smile on my face 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ishveir Posted November 23, 2004 Report Share Posted November 23, 2004 yeah more pics more pics more! 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sikh_fauge Posted November 24, 2004 Report Share Posted November 24, 2004 totally agree with drawof! spot on as always mr singh! o jeeeeees! 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chhinderpalsingh Posted March 4, 2005 Report Share Posted March 4, 2005 but veerji, where is the picture/portait ? It is not seen here at all. Im much anxious to see it. Here I may point out that the last Mughul emperor Bahadur Shah Zafar (as in history) after his victory, arranged an artist at that time, and requested Guruji to permit him (artist) to prepare a portrait of respected Guruji. Guruji, permitted and the artist prepared the picture. But it is matter of research where that picture has gone now ? Probably that may enlighten us to some reality. Regarding the good or bad shape of any portrait, I may point out that it is the real picture made in our mind, as per the respects & SHARDHA towards Guruji, Gurbani & our religion. Like a mirror. As we think, so we see. I request that we must pay maximum regards respects & shardha towards our religion, most respected Honourable Guruji and Gurbani. Any wrong comments if given be pardoned please. chhinder@sancharnet.in 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
H4RPAL Posted March 10, 2005 Report Share Posted March 10, 2005 I can't see the pictue, can someone PM it to me please, or e-mail it? 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ghost Posted March 11, 2005 Report Share Posted March 11, 2005 neo any chance of a repost cant see pic either 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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