How did the name Kaur come to sikhi?

[Guest]

I just wanted to know. We all know how the name Singh came about, its was during the birth of the Khalsa and Guru Ji did give Women Amrit. But what is the story, what is the history behind it?

[Amrikingh]

me wants to know aswell

[Black Goddess]

How do we know if women were given Amrit? If we believe the sanatan Sikhi theory that Amrit was only given to the warriors(Nihungs) then was the ruling not to cut Kes meant just for them? Are there any historical sources or Rehatnaamey which refer to women being told this too?

[Beast]

I thought Baba Hanuman Singh (Nihang Jathedar of Akal Takht) was the first to give Amrit to women on a wide scale?

[Guest]

I thought Baba Hanuman Singh (Nihang Jathedar of Akal Takht) was the first to give Amrit to women on a wide scale?

Kirpan da Amrit or Khanda Da Amrit??

[Beast]

dunno - weren't u there when I first heard it?! :wink:

--> Kirpan Da Amrit I think.

[Black Goddess]

So Guru Sahib didnt give women Amrit at all?

[Guest]

Gkaur, dont take any answers without full references and details.

On Nirmalaye thread, Lalleshvari mentioned that first sampardha to give women amrit(khanda da amrit) was Nirmalaye.

[Black Goddess]

So it wasnt Guru Ji themselves?

[Guest]

Correct me, if i m wrong but there are no accounts of siri guru gobind singh ji giving amrit to Women.

I m not saying if there are no accounts that doesnt mean women werent baptised by siri guroo gobind singh ji...

Its just having accounts of women getting baptised clears up lot of doubts in people's mind.

On other hand, Namdhari claims that they were the first one who gave amrit(khanda da) to sikh womens.

In my personal opnion, i think women were given amrit (khanda da) by siri guroo gobind singh ji. (Again i dont have any evidence to proff, this is something i belive )

[Guest]

Hey, Ive found something. But we need more.

http://www.sikhwomen.com/equality/gender/K...20-%201636%20AD

http://www.sikhwomen.com/equality/social/h...eninsikhism.htm

[jbudwal]

It is a historical fact that in 1858, Satguru Ram Singh Ji or Baba Ram Singh was the initiator of the Amrit Ceremony to be performed for the women-folk, thus giving them equal rights and standing without any discrimination.

[tableji]

since wen has there ever been gender in khalsa?? tell me if there exists a khalsi???nah men and women are equal, why shud they have different forms of amrit??Which brings the question , "Where did kirpan da amrit come from?"

does guru granth sahib ji talk about genders wen talkin about us manukhs??so why do we distinguish??

ive read somewhere

"When some people visit Takht Sri Hazoor Sahib, they find that the women are baptized by the kirpan (sword) instead of 'khanda' during 'Amrit Sanchar'. While baptizing the women, only Jap Ji Sahib, few stanzas from Jaap Sahib, and six stanzas from Anand Sahib is read. Only one beloved one (Panj Piyara) prepares the Amrit"

why shud women have less bani to read??is kirpan da amrit less than khande da??does that mean women are less important to guruji than men??

since wen did sant-sipahi have a gender??

If we follow the Gurbani, 'Khande Da Amrit' can transform us into angels without any delay, "Balehaaree Gur Aapne, Diohaarhee Sad Vaar. Jin Maanas Te Devte Keeye, Karat Naa Laagee Vaar" (I am a sacrifice to my Guru a hundred times a day, who made angels out of human beings, and it was done without any delay). Tell me if u can see a reference of gender there?

Yeah hazoor sahib does kirpan da amrit for women, does that mean that its right??who do u follow ppl, or guruji??

"Paanch Singh Amrit Jo Devai. Taa Ko Chhakk Sir Dhar Pun Levai" (The nectar, which is given by the five Singhs, one should taste and then put it on head).

does that say anything about males or females??

"Singh Ruchai Sad Bhojan Maas" (The lion is always interested in meat). (Sri Guru Granth Sahib, page 1180). If lion wants to eat meat, the lioness too has the same desire. Thus, here the word 'singh' has been used both for the lion and the lioness. In the Gurbani, the masculine word 'Sikh' has been used both for man and woman. Actually, there is only one man in this world. All other are the women. "Is Jag Maih Purakh Ek Hai, Hor Sagalee Naar Sabaayee" (In this world, there is one Man; all other beings are women. (Sri Guru Granth Sahib, page 591).

[Guest]

Yeah hazoor sahib does kirpan da amrit for women, does that mean that its right??who do u follow ppl, or guruji??

Amrit veer ji have spoken against Kirpan da amrit being hazoori singh himself. He only recnognize kirpan da amrit going on years...doesnt mean he supported it anyway.

Please search for kirpan da amrit in our forum...you will see lot of discussions regarding that.

But one thing i like to stress upon is "just because if some tradition goin on for years....doesnt make it puratan?? "

If that starts happening, any tom , dick, harry can come along and call the tradition "puratan" and push it to accept that tradition to be accepted in the panth just because its going on for numbers of years.

Kirpan da amrit doesnt meet standards when it comes to Siri guru granth sahib and Dasam Granth Sahib ji.

Kirpan da amrit is same as chaula the kids have. Its not permament amrit. Its just a preparation stage to take real Khanda da Amrit....thats what i beleive anyway.

Kirpan Amrit - Premilinary Stage

Khanda da Amrit- Full Blessing from Guru Sahib (Amrit in its orginal form)

[Guest Sardar Moderator Singh]

Let's keep 'Kirpan Amrit' as a separate discussion.

This thread relates solely to the origins of the title/surname 'Kaur' and in particular in its use for Sikh Women.

Talk of Khalsa and Khalsi is typical when it comes to discussing slight variations in the historical rehits for men and women, if this argument is used, then why do we have Singh and Kaur at all? Why not Singh for both men and women, full stop? Why is it acceptable for women to simply wear a keski and not a full dastaar for those who consider Keski a rehit?

For sake of clarification, Singhnee is only ever used as an adjective, never with a name, so this cannot be cited as being an example here.

Moreover, let's read puratan rehits more carefully, the entire rehits need to be assessed and cross-referenced and then note taken of the author, time of writing and surrounding socio-political events.

It is quite clear in many cases that the puratan rehits were addressing only men -either through clear distinction (where the rehitnama will specify a separate section for Women ("Sikhnee") and others) or through implication (i.e. Do not sleep with another's wife, treat all women as your sisters and mothers and do not consider another's woman as your own etc).

I am not supporting or discussing Kirpan Amrit or if Bhai Chaupa Singh was correct etc etc. These points are made to ensure that we apply full discretion to our assessments and discussions on this topic going forward: where did the title/surname 'Kaur' come from and why and when?

Incidently, as others have previously commented elsewhere on this forum, Kaur does in fact mean 'prince' and not 'princess' and puratan rehits actually speak of a "Sikhnee" taken the title 'Devi' after initiation.

Regards,

SMS.

[tableji]

neo wen i was talkin about ppl, i didnt mean the author...everythin that men are allowed to do, women should be able to do...the rehits for both shud be the same...

guruji talks to us and refers to us as a people, and does not talk about what is right for a female and what is right for a male.

erm kaur hasnt been mentioned in guru granth sahib ji, i guess it cud be a man made thing, so that we can distinguish between each other...doesnt matter to guruji wot gender we are....and thats all that matters

[Guest]

Thanks to Singh132 for his msg:

Prem Sumarag is one of the oldest rehitnamas out there. The most common edition is the one found in the Piara Singh Padam "Rehitnamas" but I've also got a copy of the complete version as edited by Randhir Singh the research scholar, first published in 1953, titled "Prem Sumarag Granth".

According to Randhir Singh, the oldest copy available of this work is from 1701. Prof. Pashaura Singh has a copy of an older copy, dated 1815CE. So even if we don't accept the 1701 date, 1815 is still MUCH before any Singh Sabha movement.

Prem Sumarag states the following about giving women amrit:

"Fayr, Sikh kareeai, jougat naal paahul khandai kee deejeeai. Ar Ardaas kareeai: "Jee! Eh jee man bach karam kar Khalsay kaa jama pehar kay SikhNee hoee hai. Khushee karho! Jo Sree Akaal Purakh apnay marag kaa rang bakhshay. Anand saath rahai"

Meaning, "Then, make her a Sikh, by giving her Khanday Kee Paahul with the proper method. Then do ardaas" "Lord! This one has by word and action taken on the form of a Khalsa and become your Sikhnee (female Sikh). Be pleased! May Akaal Purakh give her the divine colours of his path. May she live in bliss."

In the work by Sarup Singh Kaushish, I recall Sikh women being called Kaur as well. "Kaur" has been a common name amongst Sikhs ie. Guru Har Rai Sahib's daughter Bibi Roop Kaur. After the Khalsa, all Sikh women were given this name. By the Misals and Raja Ranjit Singh’s time, there are many more records and you’ll note that all Sikh women do have the name “Kaur” so the belief that this was invented by Singh Sabha also holds no water. Chand Kaur, Jind Kaur, Sada Kaur, etc.