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Gurfateh

writings such as this are very interesting but they don't hold water - read Gurbani and you will find the truth to lay this matter to rest. many such as the Ahmadiyah Sect have tried to prove that Sikhs are Muslims.

i.e. the prophet Muhammad is central to the Islamic concept e.g. Messenger of God, Slave of God so hence follow his example and the words transmitted through him to attain a heavenly abode.

so the question is, why is he mentioned so little within the Guru Granth Sahib? surely if pur Gurus were saying they were muslim they would not then say:

"Neither do i follow the muslim ways nor the hindu ways..."

also, the Quran is accepted as the untainted word of God and is the central pillar of all Muslims regardless of interfactional differences. yet, here is what Guru says - bear in mind he is not saying that the teaqchings are false; he is saying that he has come to God's door and no-one elses.

10th Nanak says in Rahirass Sahib:

"...QURAN talk of much but i do not acknowledge them [it]...this narration is not through my mouth but has been spoken through your blessing"

in Dohra, 10th Nanak then pretty much gives us the reasons for these very direct words:

thats the Guru's word.

"after leaving ALL OTHER DOORS (modes of salvation/living), i have come to yours, please protect my honour because Gobind is your slave"

if someone wishes to be a Sikh heres the equation:

Guru + SandhSangat + Sikh = Gursikh Relationship

Gurusikh relationship = the basis by which one may realise and become part of The One.

without elaborating upon Islam, its safe to say that this concept is very different to the Muslim concept of salvation.

Gurfateh

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i love reading htis kind of propaganda. they say guru nanak was a muslim and he was killed by the sikhs when they realised this.....lol!

"|| 7 || SHALOK, FIRST MEHL: It is difficult to be called a Muslim; if one is truly a Muslim, then he may be called one. First, let him savor the religion of the Prophet as sweet; then, let his pride of his possessions be scraped away. Becoming a true Muslim, a disciple of the faith of Mohammed, let him put aside the delusion of death and life. As he submits to God's Will (Islam) and surrenders to the Creator, he is rid of selfishness and conceit. And when, O Nanak, he is merciful to all beings, only then shall he be called a Muslim.

|| 2 || FIRST MEHL: There are five prayers and five times of day for prayer; the five have five names. Let the first be truthfulness, the second honest living, and the third charity in the Name of God. Let the fourth be good will to all, and the fifth the praise of the Lord. Repeat the prayer of good deeds, and then, you may call yourself a Muslim. O Nanak, the false obtain falsehood, and only falsehood."

this is a common poetic technique used in guru granth sahib, they will take something and analyse each part of it and compare it to truth. like for example they will say something when describing idol worship like "let truth be your offering, meditation your idol, and sexual restraint your service" or something like that.......its done alot.....guruji is describing the true way of islam or "submission">

notice that it is said "when he is merciful to all beings". since hte gurus were very anti halal, im sure theres a semi halal reference there.

"|| 6 || SHALOK, FIRST MEHL: Let mercy be your mosque, faith your prayer-mat, and honest living your Koran. Make modesty your circumcision, and good conduct your fast. In this way, you shall be a true Muslim. Let good conduct be your Kaabaa, Truth your spiritual guide, and the karma of good deeds your prayer and chant. Let your rosary be that which is pleasing to His Will."

again thats a good example of it. gurus were very much against circumcision etc, they were just saying the true way to religion.

lol there was a semi attempt at a stab at sikhisms credibility at hte bottom which was rather quickly refuted. o well.

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Guest BikramjitSingh

Waheguru Ji Ka Khalsa

Waheguru Ji Ki Fateh

The problem here is that the chief intent of the website is to show that the 'beliefs' of Islam are present in some other religions. By showing this the aim is to show Islam as the 'true' religion are the others as being 'false' but that 'truth' of Islam can been seen in some of the other religion's beliefs.

If we take the website's premise then Islam will be shown to have taken all of it's beliefs from the Jews and Christians. Islam has taken over all the Jewish prophets and made them into 'muslims', taken over Jesus as well. The Koran has tried to retell in a garbled fashion most of the stories of the old and new testament. The only thing that stopped Mohammed from accepting Jesus as the 'son of God' was that he wanted his position to the number two to Allah, if God had a son, then mohammed would have been relegated to third or fouth place, as God also would then have had a 'wife' in the form of the virgin Mary.

The Muslims and Islam in general are very insecure in their faith. Their aim to present their faith as being the 'truth' and all others as 'false', if they have the lie about it then that's fine because it is possible to lie in order to promote Islam. That's why we should take the comments on the website with a pinch of salt.

"A 'believer' is one who believes in ONE God and doesn't ascribe any partners to Him else he is called as a 'kaafir' in Arabic"

That above comment is typical of Muslim when cornered about their faith, they wish to show that they hold 'truth' as sacrosanct but when the honour of Islam is at stake then they will lie to their heart's content.

The above comment is made truthful only if you add a BUT and put down that a believer is one who believes that Mohammed was the last prophets, has to fast for 30 days, pray 5 times a day etc.

The problem with such websites as that they put up material which are based false premise, how can one compare a universal religion that accepts all as equal with one that is only promotes equality amongst only the males and only OF THAT RELIGION. It's like comparing an ocean to a stagnant pond. The website appears to criticise Ossama Bin Laden but the aims of both the 'liberal' Muslims and the 'fundamentalists' like Ossama are the same, the destruction of all non -Islamic religions. It is only the means that differ, the aim is the same.

Suffice to say, none of the quotes from Gurbani can in any way be used to justify or lend credence to Islam as being a 'true' religion. In fact of the quotes from the koran listed underneath the Gurbani quotes bear no relation to each other.

Gurfateh

Bikramjit Singh

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Gurfateh

And I presume you've met every muslim in the world to say with confidence that all muslims are like this, haven't you Bikramjit. What's that phrase, ignorance breeds ignorance?

Can I ask you a serious question, and I leave it up to you to answer this truthfully

How many muslim friends have you got?

Let me just run a few historical names by you: Bhai Mardana, Pir Budh Shah and his sons, Mian Mir, Baba Farid, the Rabaabis, Bhai Noor Shah. I guess they all thought their faith was the only 'true' one too.

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Vaheguru Ji Ka Khalsa Vaheguru Ji Ki Fateh

One thing I feel many sikhs, muslim's, hindu's fail to realise is Oneness. They see the name Bhagat Kabir, Bhagat Naam Dev, Baba Fareed, and they think these are men of different faiths and are not Khalsa (Pure One). In the Concept of Akaal, there is ONE teacher ALONE. Siri Guru Granth Sahib Ji is NOT a compilation, but an Eternal Truth, The Unbound Word. IK-OANKAR. This is what Gurbani Teaches us of. NO-ONE other than Akaal wrote within Siri Guru Granth Sahib Ji. Puran BrahmGiani, Puran SATGURU. SatNaam Alone is SatGuru. Vaheguru Spoke BrahmGian through Bhagat Kabir, Bhagat Naam Dev and Baba Fareed, and this BrahmGian resides with us today, by Vaheguru's Grace. How can we as Sikhs be so blind to this? IK-Oankar. One Truth, One God, One Disciple, One Humanity, One Love. Religion is avenue to direct us there. The Intimate relationship itself and deepest of Pilgrimages, resides within us, and is of the Soul-bride seperated from Her Beloved Husband Lord.

There were not many writers of Gurbani. But ONE. There are not different qualities of Gurbani, but ONE. There are not many religions within Gurbani, but ONE. People talk of the Bani of the Bhagat's, and Bani of the Guru's and of them being seperate. But don't both reside within our Living Guru? Don't ever forget that Gurbani came from "Gur", God, and that Ik-Oankar is what this Bani Preaches to us of. In a time where there was/is arrogance, inequality, and divisions between Believers of God, SatGuru delivers the message of SatNaam. There is only One SatGuru, and this SatGuru spoke through and continues to speak through, which ever vessel was/is of SatGuru's Choosing and at any instance, so that we as the seperated Soul-brides can learn of our Way of Surrender. It is the One Universal Truth that we as Sikhs should be a Sacrifice to. The one Truth that resides within us and around us. SatGuru presented Truth to All, and showed that this Truth was Accessible and Universal to All. This Truth could reside within those that we observed of different faiths, but in reality were those Living within the One Beloved. Devotee's that had gone beyond the veils of illusions, and gone beyond religion, and merged with the One Beyond religion. Realising the Truth within them that was beyond race, gender, and preachers.

IK-Oankar

SatNaam

Vaheguru Ji Ka Khalsa Vaheguru Ji Ki Fateh

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Gurfateh

Well said Naamabhiyaas!

You've clocked this one. There will always be fundamentalists, politicians, racists, nindyas within any group of people. There will also be those who see clearly, those who recognise humanity as one, those who love all, those who love God also within any group of people.

I've met enough fundamentalist Sikhs in my time. I've also met enough fundamentalist Christains, Hindus, Muslims, etc. But I know for sure that there are lots of Muslims, Christians, Hindus out there who are not fundamentalist and recognise all as one.

We do not have the same path, the same way we don't have the same facial features, but we are from the same source and we are trying to return to the same source. To do this we need pyaar.

Those who focus on the finger pointing at the moon will be stuck with the finger, those who look to the moon for all it's clear and all-encompassing beauty will see that same beauty in anyone from a murderer to a saint.

You can spend your time looking for differences, looking for fundamentalists, looking for negative information to reassure your ego, relishing divisive thinking. That kind of thinking is pure ego. It makes you feel somehow superior by posing people who are inferior. Guru Arjun Dev states in Sukhmani Sahib that the Brahmgyani treats friend and foe alike.

But until you tackle your own stereotypes, you will not begin to see Manas Ki Jaat, therefore you cannot truly wish for Sarbat Da Bhalla. Therefore you do not recognise creation as one, all suffering ego, and you cannot develop compassion and humility. Therefore, it is hard to start tearing away at the layers of the onion that is your ego because you are still stuck in dualistic thinking.

Jallauddin Rumi uses this story, which comes from the Buddha. A hindu brings an elephant to a persian city at night. The nobles are so excited as they have never seen an elephant. It is pitch black so they all start feeling the creature. One says 'it is long and thin and pointed at the end', the other says 'it is thick and strong', the third says 'it is wide and hairy'. They all leave with their own understanding of what the elephant is like. They cannot comprehend the whole elephant, yet they have all touched it.

'There is no Muslim, there is no Hindu' does not mean, therefore, there is Sikhism (as it has been explained to me). It means that there is only humanity in God. Humanity are plagued by ego, no matter what they look like. Guru Gobind Singh ji in Akaal Ustat says of God (paraphrased) 'you are in the qaazi's call to prayer, you are in the hindu reciting the gayatri mantra'.

Once you have dropped your stereotypes and stop assuming anything about anyone you can talk to them and be with them with only compassion for them. If you begin by disliking and hating them, you are still plagued by ego.

Look at Guru Gobind Singh ji's life for inspiration. So much injustice happened, everything was taken away from him, yet he never suggested that muslims were the cause of this. He never once stated that ALL muslims are like this or that! He knew that it was the individual ego of his enemies.

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we are all one....in status...

but we are the khalsa, we are seperate and unique...

a fundamentalist is someone who follows the fundamentals of ones religion...

fundamental -

(1)(adj) Basic and central

(2)(noun) The fundamentals of something, are its most basic and important parts

i hope i remain a fundamentalist!! :D

but more seriously...

bikramjit singh, as a singh of guru gobind singh ji do you feel it ok to criticise another religion??

your doing the same thing you claim them to do....do nindyaa of other eleigion claiming your religion is the truth...

theirs no point us arguin so lets all just show more toleranc towards others...me included!!

they are our brothers as much as anyone...

and i wouldnt want a muslim veer to come on this site to see us criticising them or ridiculing them...

if they want to claim that Guru Ji was theirs let them!!

it can only better them?

gurfateh...

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Guest BikramjitSingh

Jtsingh

let's have facts and not soundbites

I have had over 30 years experience of interacting with Muslims, whether Shia, Sunni, Ahmedi etc. How many have you had ?. Sorry to hurt your PC image of Islam but contray to what you have been told Islam is not a religion of peace.

One day your PC notion of Islam will come crashing down. I shudder to think where and when but it is as certain as night follows day.

Can you point to a line in my post which you can with evidence to the contray show as being incorrect ?

Also please base your evidence on Muslim beliefs and not something your ' mate Abdul ' told you down at the halal chicken joint

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I seem to have hit a raw ego!

Can I ask a sincere question Bikramjit...

Do you actually do mathatekh when you go the Gurdwara?

Now, in your post you state that you believe that those who follow the Islamic faith and Muslims in general are very unsure in their faith (see in your above post), that means by your logic that Baba Farid's bani must also be insecure and unsure.

You also imply that all Muslims will lie when cornered about their faith. Again, you are implicitly stating that Baba Farid would also be willing to lie to defend his faith.

Equally that would suggest that the following people were uncertain, insecure potential liars; Bhai Mardana, Pir Bidh Shah, his martyred sons who died defending Guru Gobind Singh, Mian Mir...all potential liars, all insecure.

Now let me get this right Bikramjit,

You bow to the writings of someone you think was both a potential liar and was insecure and unsure about his faith in God. Of course, this is assuming your own 'evidence' is correct.

Surely that makes you a hypocrite? You bow before the writings of someone you dislike! Going by your 'facts' of course.

Unless of course you accept that SOME muslims are unsure of their faith and SOME muslims may lie when cornered.

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That article just takes few quotes from Guru Granth sahib ji and showing that Islam is preached in Guru Granth sahib ji. To be honest I didn't get the true meaning of that article so I may be wrong in providing my feedback here.

im posting quotes from guru granth sahib ji as well to show you the difference. You will come across so many articles like that as people got so much time online to point out something which can create issues and misguide the majority.

I'm posting quotes as well now tell me what would you think after reading them.

Sikhism does not believe that any Holy Book takes precedence over all others or any religions prophet is the final messenger of God.

"Say not that the Vedas and Muslim books are false. False is he, who reflects not on them." (Bhagat Kabir, Parbhati, pg. 1350)

"The followers of the Vedas, the Bible and the Koran, standing at Your Door, meditate on You. Uncounted are those who fall at Your Door." (Guru Arjan Dev, pg. 518)

"And many have been orthodox amongst the Muslims, and men of miracles, and Ashvini Kumaras, and the part-incarnations of Vishnu, all O all went the way of death. And many were the prophets and spiritual guides, yea, countless were they: they sprang from the dust and to dust they returned." (Guru Gobind Singh, Akal Ustati)

Purpose of the Holy Book

"Thus We have revealed the Koran in the Arabic tongue and proclaimed in it warnings and threats so that they may take heed and guard themselves against evil." (20:114 Quran)

"Upon this Plate, three things have been placed: Truth, Contentment and Contemplation. The Ambrosial Nectar of the Naam, the Name of our Lord and Master, has been placed upon it as well; it is the Support of all. One who eats it and enjoys it shall be saved. This thing can never be forsaken; keep this always and forever in your mind. The dark world-ocean is crossed over, by grasping the Feet of the Lord; O Nanak, it is all the extension of God." (Guru Arjan Dev, Mundavanee, pg. 1429)

Sikhism believes that people of different religions are equally capable of achieving salvation while still following their own religion.

"Believers, take neither Jews nor Christians for your friends. They are friends with one another. Whoever of you seeks their friendship shall become one of their number. Allah does not guide the wrongdoers." (5:49, Quran)

"Mohammed is Allah's apostle. Those who follow him are ruthless to the unbelievers but merciful to one another." (48:29, Quran)

"When the sacred months are over slay the idolaters wherever you find them. Arrest them, besiege them, and lie in ambush everywhere for them. If they repent and take to prayer and pay the alms-tax, let them go their way. Allah is forgiving and merciful." (9:4, Quran)

"There is a garden, in which so many plants have grown. They bear the Ambrosial Nectar of the Naam as their fruit. Consider this, O wise one, by which you may attain the state of Nirvaanaa. All around this garden are pools of poison, but within it is the Ambrosial Nectar, O Siblings of Destiny. There is only one gardener who tends it. He takes care of every leaf and branch. He brings all sorts of plants and plants them there. They all bear fruit - none is without fruit." (Guru Arjan Dev, Asa, pg. 385)

"The temple or the mosque are the same, the Hindu worship or the Musalman prayer are the same; all men are the same; it is through error they appear different. Deities, demons, Yakshas, heavenly singers, Musalmans and Hindus adopt the customary dress of their different countries. All men have the same eyes, the same ears, the same body, the same build, a compound of earth, air, fire, and water. Allah and Abhekh are the same, the Purans and the Quran are the same; they are all alike; it is the one God who created all. The Hindu God and the Muhammadan God are the same; let no man even by mistake suppose there is a difference." (Guru Gobind Singh, Akal Ustat, pg. 275) Sri Guru Granth Sahib places greater emphasis on love of God as the main motivation for man rather than fear of God.

"Truly, none will take heed but the wise: those who keep faith with Allah and do not break their pledge; who join together what He has bidden to be united; who fear their Lord and dread the terrors of Judgement-day; who for the sake of Allah endure with fortitude..." (13:18, Quran)

"Allah's reward is great. Therefore fear Him with all your hearts and be attentive, obedient, and charitable. That will be best for you." (64:13, Quran) "Within my heart, I sing the Glorious Praises of the Lord, and celebrate the Word of the Lord's Shabad. The Lord Himself is pervading and permeating the world; so fall in love with Him!" (Guru Nanak Dev, pg. 790)

"Remembering Him in meditation, one abides in peace; one becomes happy, and suffering is ended. Celebrate, make merry, and sing God's Glories. Forever and ever, surrender to the True Guru." (Guru Arjan Dev, Asa, pg. 386)

Sikhism does not believe in the idea of Gods name being only those authorized in a religious tradition or Holy Book.

"Many are Thy Names and infinite Thine forms and it cannot be told how many merits Thou hast." (Guru Nanak, Asa, pg. 358)

Non-Sikhs are allowed to visit and enter the most sacred shrine of the religion, The Golden Temple.

"Believers, know that the idolaters are unclean. Let them not approach the Sacred Mosque after this year is ended" (9:26, Quran)

"Blessed is the place, and blessed are those who dwell there, where God's Name is meditated upon. The sermons and songs of God's praises are sung there and there is nothing but peace, poise and tranquillity." (Guru Arjan Dev, Raga Bilaval, pg. 816)

"If the Lord Allah lives only in the mosque, then to whom does the rest of the world belong? …The God of the Hindus lives in the southern lands, and the God of the Muslims lives in the west. So search in your heart - look deep into your heart of hearts; this is the home and the place where God lives." (Bhagat Kabir, pg. 1349)

Attitude towards women. Sikh women are allowed to lead congregations of men at the temple or administer all religious ceremonies involving either men or women.

"Man have authority over women because Allah has made the one superior to the other, and because they spend their wealth to maintain them. Good women are obedient. They guard their unseen parts because Allah has guarded them. As for those from whom you fear disobedience, admonish them and send them to beds apart and beat them." (4:34, Quran)

"We are born of woman, we are conceived in the womb of woman, we are engaged and married to woman. We make friendship with woman and the lineage continued because of woman. When one woman dies, we take another one, we are bound with the world through woman. Why should we talk ill of her, who gives birth to kings? The woman is born from woman; there is none without her. Only the One True Lord is without woman" (Guru Nanak Dev, Var Asa, pg. 473)

Sikhism does not believe in women wearing veils.

"Stay, stay, O daughter-in-law - do not cover your face with a veil. In the end, this shall not bring you even half a shell." (Bhagat Kabir, Asa, pg. 484)

Sikhism does not believe in fasting or pilgrimages.

"The mind is not softened by fasting or austerities. Nothing else is equal to worship of the Lord's Name." (Guru Nanak Dev, Ramkali, pg. 905)

"The pilgrimage to shrines, fasting, cleanliness and self-mortification are not of any avail, nor are the rituals, religious ceremonies and hollow adoration's. Deliverance, O! Nanak! is in the devotional service of God. Through duality the mortal is engrossed in worldliness. (Guru Nanak, Sri Rag, pg. 75)

Sikhism rejects the killing of any animal evoking a prayer or by slow death. Muslim Halal meat is forbidden for Sikhs.

"Yet holding the knife, the world they butcher. Wearing blue the rulers approval they seek; With money derived from mlechhas the Puranas they worship. Goats slaughtered over the unapproved Muslims texts they eat." (Guru Nanak, Raga Asa, pg. 472)

Sikhism rejects the idea of circumcision.

"Because of the love of woman, circumcision is done; I don't believe in it, O Siblings of Destiny. If God wished me to be a Muslim, it would be cut off by itself. If circumcision makes one a Muslim, then what about a woman?" (Bhagat Kabir, Asa, pg. 477)

source: http://www.sikhs.org/relig_m.htm

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I think if we read above quotes then we can easily say that "Anti-Islam in Sikhism" now it tells us that you can mold scriptures to any side. It's all about awareness you have and how you see it. I think people love to create issues by taking the quotes and then molding them as per their agenda.

Here is what im talking about...

This site is all about Islam..

Below site is full of Islam information:

http://www.themodernreligion.com/index2.html

Also on the same site you will see that they got quotes to insult Hinduism so people are there to create issues FA and nneed to be rational.

www.themodernreligion.com/comparative/hindu/hindu_heretics.html

so people are online or offline to get those quotes and create issues like that...

Here is one more article to which they can easily name "Islam in Hinduism" ....

www.themodernreligion.com/prophet/prophet-hindu.html

that sikh article and hindu articles are there to create dramas and issues that's it....

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  • 2 months later...

"A 'believer' is one who believes in ONE God and doesn't ascribe any partners to Him else he is called as a 'kaafir' in Arabic"

Salam,

This is incorrect. The word "kaafir" is someone who has learned about Islam and THEN rejected it. If someone is just born and has not learned of Islam yet they are not kaafir.

Shukria,

Muhammad

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I respect Islam, I hav so many muslim friends. But dis has also confussed me da word kaafir, wot is da real meaning?

-----------------------------------------------------------------------

moderator note: Start new thread to get good feedback.

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Guest BikramjitSingh

Mohammed

That quote was taken froma Muslim website

http://www.guidedones.com/metapage/non_muslims/prophsikh.htm

Perhaps you can contact them and show them what your definition of a kafir.

Quick question

Are you allowed to lie in Islam in certain situations. JTSingh thinks not but I think there are cases where you are allowed to lie mainly due to that fact that in similar cases Mohammed also lied.

GurFateh

Bikramjit

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  • 3 weeks later...

Gurfateh

I found the following in relation to the concept of lying in Islaam. The following excerpt was part of an answer to the question 'Is lying permissible in Islaam, and in what situations?'. The Shaykh answering is; Sheikh Muhammed Salih Al-Munajjid, a known Islamic lecturer and author. The website reference is www.islam-qa.com.

The basic rule with regard to lying is that it is not permitted, but there are certain circumstances in which Islam permits lying to serve a greater purpose or to prevent harm.

One of these situations is when a person mediates between two disputing parties in order to reconcile between them, if reconciliation cannot be achieved in any other way. Um Kalthoom (may Allaah be pleased with her) reported that the Prophet (peace and blessings of Allaah be upon him) said: “He is not a liar who reconciles between people and conveys something good or says something good.” (Reported by al-Bukhaari, 2495).

Another example is a man’s speaking to his wife, or a woman speaking to her husband, with regard to matters that will strengthen the ties of love between them, even if that is accompanied by exaggeration. Asma’ bint Yazeed said: “The Messenger of Allaah (peace and blessings of Allaah be upon him) said: ‘Lying is not permitted except in three cases: a man’s speaking to his wife to make her happy; lying at times of war; and lying in order to reconcile between people.’” (Reported by al-Tirmidhi, 1862; he said: it is a hasan hadeeth. See also Saheeh Muslim, 4717).

Also, unlike most religions, within Islam there are certain provisions under which lying is not simply tolerated, but actually encouraged. The book "The spirit of Islam," by the Muslim scholar, Afif A. Tabbarah was written to promote Islam. On page 247, Tabbarah stated: "Lying is not always bad, to be sure; there are times when telling a lie is more profitable and better for the general welfare, and for the settlement of conciliation among people, than telling the truth. To this effect, the Prophet says: 'He is not a false person who (through lies) settles conciliation among people, supports good or says what is good."

This point is proven by many incidences in the life of Mohammed. He often lied and instructed his followers to do the same. He rationalized that the prospect of success in missions to extend Islam's influence overrode Allah's initial prohibitions against lying. A good example of sanctioned lying is the account of the assassination of Kaab Ibn al-Ashrf, a member of the Jewish tribe, Banu al-Nudair. It had been reported that Kaab had shown support for the Quraishites in their battle against Mohammed. This was compounded by another report that infuriated Mohammed. It was alleged that Kaab had recited amorous poetry to Muslim women. Mohammed asked for volunteers to rid him of Kaab Ibn al-Ashraf. As Mohammed put it, Kaab had "Harmed Allah and His Apostle." At that time Kaab Ibn al-Ashraf, and his tribe were strong, so it was not easy for a stranger to infiltrate and execute the task. A Muslim man by the name of Ibn Muslima, volunteered for the murderous project on the condition that Mohammed would allow him to lie. With Mohammed's consent, Ibn Muslima, went to Kaab and told him fabricated stories that reflected discontent about Mohammed's leadership. When he had gained Kaab's trust he lured him away from his house one night and murdered him in a remote area under the cover of darkness.

"Any one who, after accepting faith in Allah, utters Unbelief, except under compulsion, his heart remaining firm in Faith - but such as open their breast to Unbelief, on them is Wrath from Allah, and theirs will be a dreadful Penalty." Surah 16: 106

Gurfateh

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  • 2 weeks later...

An example of the lying in Islaam at the highest and most public level is when the mughal army & co had surrounded Anandpur sahib, and laid a seige to it for over 7 months. After this time Aurungzeb became desparate and gave an oath on the koran that if Guru Gobind Singh ji and the sangat left the Anandpur fort they would not be attacked at all - just that they should leave the fort.

Guru Gobind Singh ji stated that this was not a good idea and that the enemy should not be trusted - and to hold out for a short while longer. However after repeated requests from the sangat, Guru ji acceped the sangat's views to leave the fort.

We all should know what happened when Guru ji with his family and the sadh sangat left Anandpur Sahib. The mughal army attacked at the first chance. :twisted:

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Guest BikramjitSingh

Waheguru Ji Ka Khalsa

Waheguru Ji Ki Fateh

Shere Punjab is quite right. The Mughal emperors were following Islam to the letter in dealing with the Sikhs. It is only our naivette which makes us think that any Muslim hating Sikhs is not following his own religion. We have PC Sikh authors who try to paint Aurangzeb as a misled tyrant who was not following his religion. These naive Sikh authors do not realise that Aurangzeb is seen as a hero by most Muslims because he was instrumental in forcibly converting many non-Muslims to Islam.

I have come across many Sikhs naive to the point of being foolish who will tell you that all the Muslim fanatics who try to use underhand tactics to brain wash Sikhs and try and convert them do not know the Koran. I doubt that these Sikhs know what they are talking about. Most if not all Muslim fanatics know the koran backwards. They have studied for years and they believe in it's message of hate against non-Muslims, and it's claim to make Islam the dominant religion in the entire world. The problem is that we have ultra-PC Sikhs here who think that because their Muslims friends are o.k. with them that means the Islam is also o.k.. Sorry, but any Muslim who make friends with a Sikh either has an agenda or is non practising Muslim.

GurFateh

Bikramjit

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Ah, I'm glad you pointed it out Bikramjit! I feel truely enlightened...

'Sorry, but any Muslim who make friends with a Sikh either has an agenda or is non practising Muslim'

I love this hypocracy!!

Mian Mir and Pir Budh Shah therefore, either had a anti-Sikh agenda, or were non-practicing Muslims.

Our beloved rabaabis, the same, crazed taliban like Muslims trying to convert Sikhs by playing and singing our GUru's bani...

Guru Arjun Dev must also have been one of these ultra-PC Muslim apologists you seem to know so well then when he compiled Baba Sheikh Farid's bani into Sri Guru Granth Sahib...

Now I wonder who is anti-Sikh?

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jTsingh...you may notice a trend lately..those who are fanatic about Khalistan also seem to be vehemently opposed to Muslims and Hindus associating with Sikhs in any form.

It is the product of insecurity, lack of ability to adapt, and desire to control the environment rather than be a part of it. :LOL:

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