Sanatan Sikhi (General Practices) Discussion 101

[gupy]

N30!

Okay, i wont get into that particular debate now, but the overall point is clear, that you cant ignore history...

gurpreet_singh

I dont just take websites as 'gospel', there is much independant literature to support my claims...

Could you share your sources with us...

[Dynamic_Banda]

in my post about all of us going to heaven.. I only used gurbani and I was still called an idiot.

So if i use books and other texts im an idiot..

If i use gurbani .. im an idiot..

The bottom line is.. well we all know what we think about the bottom line..

[gsingh00]

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[Beast]

so cocaine is fine then, right? After all, that isn't mentioned in Sri Guru Granth Sahib.

And how often are we recommended to masturbate?

[Guest]

time space cirsumstance, but that doesnt mean u should leave ya martail heritige, to be disected by "western" thinking.

[Dynamic_Banda]

Gurpreet Singh;.. I like how you choose one took of bani and made it your gospel..

Then I also have a question if you are willing to see gurus words in such a way, give me your sister so I may pimp her, after all it is the Guru who states that he alone is a pimp who pounds down his mind. I shall control my mind and become the pimp Guru asks me too..

Bhagat Kabeer Ji Raag Gond :872

Before you get upset with my reply, I have no intention of becoming a pimp or doing anything with any relative of yours (not that I know of anyway) I am just showing you how to take one line of bani and pretend it is an argument doesnt work.

If you follow the Guru then it dont matter wether you read books or not, its the Guru who will bestow his kirpa and his grace on you, all you can do is attempt to please him and even the attempt is if it is according to his will. This is why the Guru is emaculate and we are just nobs.

So use this forum to further your understanding as Sikhs - students, and to have discource in light humourus manner or a more strict academic manner. But dont give me crap about you follow only the Guru and not be able to see everything is in the hands of the Guru even the creation and destruction of the Sanatanists and you. !

[gupy]

Another point of view is as follows:

If you define your 'Sikhi' by JUST the Adi Granth, then how do you justify the KHALSA ???

For example quote me where the insistance on 5 K's is, or the Nitnem is mentioned, or in general a direct set of cammandments (rehit)

[gsingh00]

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[Beast]

WHy should I waste my time reading historical books, when i can read Guru Granth Sahib instead.

You gotta use your brain when u read bani, if Guru Sahib wanted to write about every single possible experience you could possibly have in your life, how long do you think the Granth would have been?

Well done. Exellent contradiction.

[gupy]

gurpreet_singh

You make a good point when you said

You gotta use your brain when u read bani, if Guru Sahib wanted to write about every single possible experience you could possibly have in your life, how long do you think the Granth would have been?

So why the hostility to the sanatan world then? This is exactly what Udhasis practice.

dasam bani tells us the most important thing if your life is bhagti, and even you guys admit the granth of bhagti is adi granth aka Srei Guru Granth Sahib Ji, sooo if bhagti is the most important thing in life, and the granth of bhagti is Adi Granth, wouldn't Adi Granth be the most important and thus highest Granth.

To the above, the answer dpends on what your bhagti is.

To some it is the sword, hence Dasam and Sarbloh bani is just as essential. But i accept this need only apply to those who are inclined to this way.

But to others, the Gita, Vedas, Upanishads, Puraans maybe equal, because they are inclined that way.

To another their music may be their bhagti.

... and to some a woman might be... actually i'll leave it there

you get my point

[Rakash Singh]

so gurpreet then i take it you do lots of paath and read lots bani... ur nitnem must be like 3-4 hours long easily surely? you sound as if you follow Gurus word to the "T". i doubt it.

when did akali sodhi say he wants to take over lots of land? lol. all he said is we shouldn't neglect our warrior heritage... like it or not the Sikhs that survived did survive to keep the faith due to Akali Nihang Singh Khalsa Warriors, love the or hate them, they saved the faith.

[gsingh00]

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[Rakash Singh]

no gurpreet singh, its sounds as if you are saying we should follow the Guru Granth Sahib to the dot. are you?

Im sure the majority of people browsing this post know that they will beheld accountable for thier actions, just as you and me will.

[gupy]

Alas... now where getting to the real stuff!

Let us be careful how we use terms like bhagti and naam.

In my opinion the interesting thing with the sanatan world is the view of dharam, bhagti and naam. I personally believe, for example, it is too simple to translate naam as name. Dharam as rightousness, and bhagti as the standard path/ prayers.

To me the terms have almost intuitive understandings and can be expressed in a multitude of ways.

So as i said before, what is wrong with:

a musician excelling in his/ her field to such a point that the music almost becomes divine...

a warrior excelling to such a point that all around seems to merge into his being...

... main point being it is not what your doing, but what the essence of what your doing is. The need for fluidity for this to occur isn't present. We are confined to live in a box, devoid of the riches of arts, that TRUELY TRANSCEND THE BEING.

This is the true nature of what i see as the sanatan world.

[gsingh00]

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[Rakash Singh]

Where is the thuk that says take amrit? Take amrit of the Khanda? from 5 Singhs?

[gupy]

okay i see your point, however the obviously we dont mean the same things by naam and bhagti.

Naam (in my opinion) is far beyond any spoken name of God. It is an intuitive understanding of the divine.

Bhagti is that which achieves the forer (naam).

Simple (or as complicated) as that...

(nature of snatan world = PARADOXICAL ... not for those who like it black and white)

[Beast]

The only true form of bhagti is to recite the name of god, whther it be Vaheguru Allah, Lord, or watever, thats all that jamdoot is gonna see when he takes u to dharam raj.

I gotta disagree with this.

My feeling is that the only way to bhagti is to understand that you are reciting the name of God and meditating on it."Jhamdoot" are not gonna see us reciting a (largely) useless name in order to achieve [a given] bhagti otherwise.

If you disagree, what about the countless lifeforms that exist in another realm (according to JapúJi Sahib)? They will have their own form of communication which will still be accountable to DharamrRaj.

(ps I know I'm not 100% clear, but in my own head I understand the argument that I'm trying to convey, and hope that you will sympathise at the lack of eloquence of my argument.)

[gsingh00]

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[gupy]

would you not also say that this understanding comes after years of meditation on the name of vaheguru?

... Like i said before, i don't think naam literally trans;ates to name. Especially just Vaheguru. I think naam refers to something that involves a lot more (how can i say this) 'investigative' thinking. I.e. why does Adi Granth use many names for 'him'. These names aren't randomly chosen because they ryhme well, but have definite relevance to given shabads. In essence they are describing the inexpressible forms/ characteristics/ understandings/ personifications of the 'one'.

So in this (my) understanding of the philosophy of Adi Granth, there is no end to the definitions of words like bhagti, hence the special relationship i believe bhagti has with art. Both are expressions of an understanding beyond the realm of words.

Then in this context Dasam and Sarbloh bani can be seen in differing lights. I don't belive every 'Sikh' needs to see them as Guru if they so wish. But the PROceed the Adi Granth in examplfing forms of the understanding we seek, mosty from a Warriors (Kshatriyas) point of view.

And Academic text are useful, not to shape our philosophical thinking, but in order to explore our heritage, which you may or may not find of any interest. That fair enough.

[gsingh00]

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[gupy]

I'm not saying that cannabis has anything to so with ones spiritual philosophy per say.

However it has DEFINITE uses. Please also be precise which part of Adi Granth you refer to. Also keep in mind the bani of Dasam and Sarbloh granths which you have already attributed to Guru Gobind Singh.

... and even if you won't be convinced about the cannabis thing, again fair enough. But that is not the be all and end all of the sanatan form...

[Rakash Singh]

who are you learning shastar vidiya off? if not niddar singh? hes the only one who knows it and teaches it, apart frm his trusted senior students occasionally.

i agree Bani is the only the thing that will save us... its a battle against the 5Chorr.

[gsingh00]

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[Beast]

some of the techniques that he teaches are mentioned in Sarbloh Granth