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abortion and sikhi


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oh man thats a hard one...

i would never wish this upon anyone and people who rape women deserve the worst punishment ever - to take someones izzat by force is probably the worst crime next to crimes against children

but i dont wanna go into that - waheguru na karey - if some poor woman does get raped - i feel it becomes a huge burden upon the woman to decide between keepin a baby that is the product of her izzat being looted - a child which she will see every day and be reminded of that day

for a woman to decide whether its morally right in these circumstances to have an abortion would be very high

but then this comes to the arguement of waheguru da hukam - its been said taht wat happens in this life is either a reward or punishment of some sort in wat we have done in our previous lives...

now - if it was waheguru da hukam that this child was born in this manner... then by havin an abortion - wouldnt this be tryin to stop gods will?? we say to ourself that we dont eat meat - we dont eat eggs

why dont we eat eggs??.... maybe because its in its early forms of life - it will grow to become a real soul - so isnt this the same as a unborn child?

if we say - its right to have an abortion, doesnt this make us hypocritical?

in all honesty, i think its wrong - this child can grow to become a great person - u are denyin this child its chance to achieve mukhti, the cycles of life and death are not in a humans hand - its in wahegurus hands, only god may take life , not us - but all in all - this does boil down to a very big moral dilema for us humans

maybe this is a reason also for the kachera??.... how hard would it be for someone to take a womans izzat - when she is wearin a kachera.. and also armed with a kirpan :D

bhula chuka di maafi - i hope i havent offended anyone with my views on this

fateh ji

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In olden times, the problem of family-planning did not exist. Even today in areas where population is scanty and resources adequate, family-planning is not necessary. This does not mean that excessive indulgence in sex becomes desirable. The Gurus told their followers to exercise self-control and to regulate sex sensibly. The Gurus recommended the middle way between self-indulgence and abstinence. Excessive sex was taboo as it led to sorrow and sickness.

Sikhism accepts the common-sense approach to family-planning. It is for the couple to decide whether they want family-planning or not, and in case the answer is in the affirmative, the mode or technique thereof. Family-planning may be necessary for health of the partners or the nursing or up-bringing of existing children. However, natural methods of contraception are preferred to artificial methods and devices. Even so, family-planning should not be under-taken without competent medical advice and supervision. There are no injunctions in Sikhism against the use of contraceptives. Abortion is a taboo, as it is an interference in the creative work of God. If the conception has taken place, it would be a sin to destroy life and hence deliberate miscarriage or abortion is forbidden. Similarly, experimenting with embryos and genes is discouraged. Contraception for the purpose of avoiding the results of illicit sex is also forbidden.

source: http://allaboutsikhs.com/mansukh/124.htm

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  • 5 months later...

In olden times, the problem of family-planning did not exist. Even today in areas where population is scanty and resources adequate, family-planning is not necessary. This does not mean that excessive indulgence in sex becomes desirable. The Gurus told their followers to exercise self-control and to regulate sex sensibly. The Gurus recommended the middle way between self-indulgence and abstinence. Excessive sex was taboo as it led to sorrow and sickness.

Sikhism accepts the common-sense approach to family-planning. It is for the couple to decide whether they want family-planning or not, and in case the answer is in the affirmative, the mode or technique thereof. Family-planning may be necessary for health of the partners or the nursing or up-bringing of existing children. However, natural methods of contraception are preferred to artificial methods and devices. Even so, family-planning should not be under-taken without competent medical advice and supervision. There are no injunctions in Sikhism against the use of contraceptives. Abortion is a taboo, as it is an interference in the creative work of God. If the conception has taken place, it would be a sin to destroy life and hence deliberate miscarriage or abortion is forbidden. Similarly, experimenting with embryos and genes is discouraged. Contraception for the purpose of avoiding the results of illicit sex is also forbidden.

source: http://allaboutsikhs.com/mansukh/124.htm

That means Sikhism doesnt support cloning... I am confused... :?

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Guest Javanmard

Abortion is used to wipe out SIkhi's female population :evil: :evil: :evil: :evil: :evil: :evil: :evil:

at the moment we have got one of the worst gender imbalances in the world:

770 women for a thousand men :evil: :evil: :evil: :evil: :evil:

scandalous for a community that claims to be against kurimar :evil: :evil: :evil:

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Abortion is used to wipe out SIkhi's female population :evil: :evil: :evil: :evil: :evil: :evil: :evil:

at the moment we have got one of the worst gender imbalances in the world:

770 women for a thousand men :evil: :evil: :evil: :evil: :evil:

scandalous for a community that claims to be against kurimar :evil: :evil: :evil:

Lalleshvari Penji I hope you find your match soon... :wink: :LOL:

Naa I am serious 770:1000 is pathetic... :shock:

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Guest Javanmard

one of the worst gender imbalances in the world :evil: :evil: :evil: :evil:

and we go around telling people how we respect women etc...

SHHHAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAME :evil: :evil: :evil: :evil: :evil: :evil: :evil: :evil: :evil:

curse of God on the kurimars

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Gur Fateh to All!

Pardon any harsh comments from me in this regard, but here's my gut feeling on this topic:-

This is not news, this is merely the dark side of Indian and largely Punjabi and Rajisthani culture -the abhorrent attitude towards the female principle, so much so that we now have a grossly unbalanced sex ratio in the region with one of the results being the rise in homosexual behaviour and incidents evident within the region in addition to increased rape cases (heterosexual and homosexual).

[Note; I am not intending to begin a debate on homosexuality here, nor am I intending to exhort any homophobic comments, this is a observational comment only]

I say that this the “dark side of Indian and largely Punjabi and Rajisthani culture†on account of the fact that in almost every Rehitnama that exists within the Sikh Tradition, there is explicit reference to the sins of female infanticide and relationship with Kuri-Mars (those who commit female infanticide) is forbidden for Gursikhs. Clearly this tragedy has been occurring for centuries that the Gurus and GurSikhs after them saw the need to make such explicit reference owing to the widespread nature of this disease.

In fact, this side of Punjabi culture is visible throughout the Diaspora; in Canada, the UK and the US, I know of many families (from purely Punjabi families to Keshdhari/Amritdhari Sikh families) who continue this attitude of detesting the female child, evident throughout the life of the girl, particularly so through her adolescent years and then when she is a finally married woman...right through to her death...

...one only needs to compare the celebrations that follow the birth of a son in Punjabi families and compare it to the feelings present when a girl is born...frankly, it’s disgusting to say the least...

...in fact the detesting of the female principle is also evident within certain supposed Gurmukh circles who through their self-concocted ideals actively seek to masculine femininity and weaken the female status, evidence of this has be easily found today in the numerous events that we have seen around us in the past year (amply discussed on this and other forums)...

To add to this audacity, we find that Sikh leaders regularly fall back upon the cultural excuse when trying to justify outdated practices that are still manifest within the Panth...there is a lot more I can add on this matter...however this posting is already too long...I just hope that we can move forward from this plague and that our Leaders in Punjab take due note of what is occuring...

Forever at the feet of the Sadh Sangat,

BIR RAS DE NAAAL...

GURBAR AKAAAAAAAL! SAT SRI AKAAAAAAAL!!!!

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LOL WHAT A JOKE

in da Swedish news it said

that the ratio of women : Men in punjab is about

880:100 :x :cry:

Lalleshwari Penji tusi tae mainu draa hi ditta cee. The actual figure in Punjab is : 874 : 1000 but its declining...

Its one of the lowest in India... thats basically due to illitrate Jatt Sikh population in villages, where in some districts the sex ratio is as low as 550 : 1000... thats why the overall ratio looks so gloomy... There is a gr8 need to spread awareness in rural Punjab to control this onslought... I not sure that exact figure of sex ration for Sikhs separately...

Sex Ratio

(Females per 1000 males)

Sl. No. India / States / Union Territories 1991 2001

INDIA 927 933

#State 1991 2001

__________________________

1 Jammu and Kashmir 896 900

2 Himachal Pradesh 976 970

3 Punjab 882 874 <-----------<<

4 Chandigarh 790 773

5 Uttaranchal 936 964

6 Haryana 865 861

7 Delhi 827 821

8 Rajasthan 910 922

9 Uttar Pradesh 876 898

10 Bihar 907 921

11 Sikkim 878 875

12 Arunachal Pradesh 859 901

13 Nagaland 886 909

14 Manipur 958 978

15 Mizoram 921 938

16 Tripura 945 950

17 Meghalaya 955 975

18 Assam 923 932

19 West Bengal 917 934

20 Jharkhand 922 941

21 Orissa 971 972

22 Chhatisgarh 985 990

23 Madhya Pradesh 912 920

24 Gujarat 934 921

25 Daman & Diu 969 709

26 Dadra & Nagar Haveli 952 811

27 Maharashtra 934 922

28 Andhra Pradesh 972 978

29 Karnataka 960 964

30 Goa 967 960

31 Lakshadweep 943 947

32 Kerala 1036 1058

33 Tamil Nadu 974 986

34 Pondicherry 979 1001

35 Andaman & Nicobar Islands* 818 846

http://cyberjournalist.org.in/census/censex0.html

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Sikhism is a scientific religion, cloning is OK, but the cloned child must be considered first. Once cloning becomes a standard practice like say "IVF" or "test tube babies" then Sikhism would see it as normal. Also, abortion in it's current state is NOT OK with Sikhism. Once abortion has been perfected and they can dispose of the embryo at cell stage, Sikhism should have no problem with it. Abortion is bad currently because these losers actually kill a LIVING child. In the early stages of pregnancy there is no child, just a bunch of cells which later develop in to an embryo and then in to a child. Discarding these cells is not killing a living child. Also, no one is "playing God", the Sikh concept of God is so far ahead that we would litterally have to create a whole new universe in order to "play" God!!! Only the Christians and Muslims talk like that because cloning proves their religions to be false!

KR,

MI

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since when is science the yard stick to decide if our Gurus are right?

Science is not the yard stick to decide if our Guru's are right, it is used to understand true reality as we percieve it with our five senses. Whose talking about the Guru's being right? Please read something properly before commenting.

How can relative laws

What are relative laws? The laws of Physics are ABSOLUTE, they are God's laws. Do not comment blindly on something when you do not know what is being implied or posses sufficent knowledge.

be a yard stick for the Absolute... :evil:

Who's talking about measuring God? :roll:

Kind Regards,

MI

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interesting topic...

well may i add at frist that cloning is natural, what do you think indentical twins are?? (or tripilets, etc, etc...) they are clones! And i peronally think embryo reseach is valid, society as a whole makes aborotion an ok practice to do, all those embryos going in a garbage can does not make sense, Why not use these embryos inorder to conduct experiments, inorder to help make new drugs, understand diseases and cancer? May i also add that an embryo is living, but it is not human.. it is a life form, just like insects, flies, spiders, bacteria, etc. YET again we humans favour the lives of ONLY humans... how ignorant are we? I am myself not against or for abortions, its up to the female to chooose if they are able and ready to take this baby... and for that female maybe they should learn about contraception... ITS ONLY DRILLED AT SCHOOL ALL THE TIME (im sick of sex ed!) lol well anywayz im just saying abortions are not a cool thing to do since you are distrubting life, but again we distrubt life all the time as a society by ruining our ozone, killing innocent lives, and yet we only care about aborotions?? I am not against abortions... because i know many teens that have done it and if they havne't their future would be different. But that all leads to one mistake thatt they did before, they never used contreception, which should have been done. And abortions are not the only way to get rid of the baby, there are miscarriages that don't happen by 'accident', which i am sure many people do, or are forced to... Its better to inform people about the options they have then preach it on them, so let them choose what they want, don't force them to do what you want....

maybe there will be more women in the future, without women there are no men.... and without men there are no women...

-one

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