Guru Gobind Singh Ji's Death

[Beast]

How did Guru Gobind Singh Ji die?

The reason I ask is because I saw a passage in one of McLeod's books that mentioned GuruJi being assasinated. Anybody got any ideas?

(If need be, I'll post the exact passage if it helps)

ps I know the general story about the arrow re-opening a wound, but was wondering if there was any written/oratory evidence which begs to differ?

[Sikher]

stabbed in the night behind the lower shoulder from what i recall

[Guest]

That's a good question beast..

But just please be sure to give references on whatever you say guys.

[karmjeet]

two pathans came to kill guru ji . one of them stabbed guru ji . guru ji took out his sri saahib abd cut the head of one pathan at once . the other pathan was also injured but fled . then time went on . the wound ws bandaged .

one day some singhs were trying to tie the string over the bow . but the bow ws very hard inflexible . they were having tough time tying i t. guru ji were watching all this . guru ji came and tied the string very easily on the bow . when he stretched the string of the bow back upto his ears , His wound which ws n't healed properly got damaged again . and He started bleeding profusely . then guru ji said its time to go now .

then guru ji ordered singhs to make a " angeetha " ( fire) and a " tamboo " all around it . guru ji went inside and disappered along with his horse .

Guru ji DID NOT DIE , he just disappered along with his body . on the same day he also gave darshan to one singh .

ALL THE TEN GURUS NEVER DIED . THEY JUST DISAPPEAR ALONG WITH THIER BODIES . FROM THE EYES OF COMMON PEOPLE . THEY GO NO WHERE . THEY R WITH US . ( Saskaar of no Guru Ji was done )

for example :

Guru Nanak Dev Ji took chadar and disappered

Guru Angad Dev Ji disappeared . Sangat started crying and bcame confused that where did guru ji go . then some chardikala sikhs prayed. guru ji again came back . then they asked guru ji from thhis world like normal people do . then angeetha was prepared . and again by putting maya in the eyes of people they disappeared again . People thought they wr doing saskaar of the dead body but there ws nothing there . it ws all maya .

Guru Arjan Dev ji disappeared too in the raavi river too .

Guru Gobind Singh ji disappeared too .

Similarly all other gurus Guru Amardas Ji , Guru Ramdaas ji , Guru Hargobind Sahib ji , Guru Harrai ji , Guru Harkrishan Ji , all disappered .

Guru Ji don't die .

However i think in case of Guru Teg Bahadur ji , things wr little different .

Jallad was not able to cut guru ji's head . Even before jallads sword could touch guru ji's neck , His head flew off and went into the hands of Bhai Jaito ji and his body ws picked up by Bhai Lakhi shah vanjara amidst a great storm .

wjkk wjkf

bhul chuk maaf

[Dynamic_Banda]

Guru Tegh Bahadars head flew into the hands of Bhai Jaito ?? erm ok.. So if non of the Gurus actually died - then are we sure they were even born ? or is this another Jesus situation and all the Gurus just came out of thin air.. ?

[Beast]

Karmjeet, can you please elaborate abt Guru Harkrishan's 'disappearance'?

[guv]

Jallad was not able to cut guru ji's head . Even before jallads sword could touch guru ji's neck , His head flew off and went into the hands of Bhai Jaito ji and his body ws picked up by Bhai Lakhi shah vanjara amidst a great storm .

kind of reminds me of the film about that crazy doll... chucky.

at the end, when the head's screaming 'kill them, kill them ALL!'

apparently they're making yet another sequel to that.

[karmjeet]

Guru Tegh Bahadars head flew into the hands of Bhai Jaito ?? erm ok.. So if non of the Gurus actually died - then are we sure they were even born ? or is this another Jesus situation and all the Gurus just came out of thin air.. ?

Avtars are not born like normal people do . They do not come out of the mother's womb .

When the mother give birth to a mass (which is not living ) then the shakti or a aatma enters that mass , and THE AVTAR IS BORN.

Avtars and bhagats are free from the cycle of births .

And for Guru jis , i can;t say anything . All of you know that GOD IS NEVER BORN AND NEITHER DOES HE DIE .

gurujis(sargun)=God(nirgun)

Our ganda sareer (body) is made of five elements (panj tatt) . But guruji's bodies are different from ours . They r made from other elements ( heard in a katha by damdami taksal vidiyarthi Giani Thakur Singh Ji )

[karmjeet]

Karmjeet, can you please elaborate abt Guru Harkrishan's 'disappearance'?

Since all the Gurujis were same God , they didn' die . neither their bodies were cremated by sikhs . So same rule applied to Guru Harkrishan ji as well . but i don't specifically know wt happened . sorry for that .

i myself don't know anything . all that i am sharing with u guys is wt i heard in kathas , in diwans , read in books and the sakhis i lheard from my elders and parents since i was a child .

" main keeeta na jaata haramkhor

hyo kya muho desa dust chor

gunahgaar loon harami pahan naav na paar garami "

wjkk wjkf

bhul chuk maaf

[guv]

i just remembered... the film's called child's play

[Pheena]

I think Karmjeet ji, you are confusing the reality of the situation with the extordinary event of the birth of an Avatar. What you have heard in Kathas are what you call the buttered up version of the Events to create an extordinary event into something that will leave people in utmost reverence to have known that their Gurus were SUPER extraordinary. Not that they were not, but the fact that none of their bodies were cremated does not seem to mesh well with the Educated Devotee. Who knows what truely happened except for those who were present at the times. I am not saying you are wrong in what you have said, but a line is drawn at what things can be accepted as reality and what things are accepted as Fantasy-type Endings. Altho Anything is Possible it is also given that we must not take everything into Literal terms.

We all know that No Guru Died because Death can only reach the body, not the true self. They merged with the ever existing divinity and are ever-present.

[Sukhi]

Avtars are not born like normal people do . They do not come out of the mother's womb .

When the mother give birth to a mass (which is not living ) then the shakti or a aatma enters that mass , and THE AVTAR IS BORN.

Avtars and bhagats are free from the cycle of births .

And for Guru jis , i can;t say anything . All of you know that GOD IS NEVER BORN AND NEITHER DOES HE DIE .

gurujis(sargun)=God(nirgun)

Our ganda sareer (body) is made of five elements (panj tatt) . But guruji's bodies are different from ours . They r made from other elements ( heard in a katha by damdami taksal vidiyarthi Giani Thakur Singh Ji )

first of all, the Guru's WERE human in form. their souls were eternal. but their bodies weren't. geezus, even you oughta know that.

secondly, no one really knows when a soul enters the body, or even how avatars and bhagats are free from the cycle of births.

lastly, our sareers aren't ganda. that would be our minds, filled with crap as a result of indulging in ourselves a tad bit too much for our own good. i'm not even gonna go into SUPERHUMAN specially produced bodies for avatars and bhagats, etc.

but i think that for our Gurus to truly be able to be as humble and modest as they were, that they would've been created as humans the same as the rest of us.

argh, i'm not makin any sense. so i'll just stop now.

[Guest]

karamjeet make sense to an extent

Because all the avtars don't suffer from womb jaun. They born as just like us but they don't suffer from mother's womb like we do. Their atma is connected with their mother's womb via chandi di tar (silver cord) from outside.

[guv]

Because all the avtars don't suffer from womb jaun. They born as just like us but they don't suffer from mother's womb like we do. Their atma is connected with their mother's womb via chandi di tar (silver cord) from outside.

eh?... u lost me

[Guest]

eh?... u lost me

[Narsingha]

Avtars are manifest (ie, "pargat"). The Gurus were BORN, hence their material bodies would suffer the ravages of time, and would perish.

The soul is eternal - it survives.

The Gurus themselves have stated that something that is BORN must DIE - but according to Karmjeet, the Gurus were hipocrites and never died.

The views represented by Karmjeet are typical of some factions of Sikhism that wish to turn it into another semetic religion with their revisionist attitude.

[tableji]

Narsingha, i agree 100% with what ur saying, bt lets not be so personal, after all this is a discussion

[Singh132]

I'm not sure where the theory that Guru Sahib's bodies were not cremated came from. This is not in line with any existing history. Guru Nanak, according to the Sakhis, did indeed not leave behind his body and some stories say Guru Gobind Singh ji did the same, but others have proven from old sources that he was cremated (See Dr. Ganda Singh's book on this issue).

Guru Angad Dev jee was cremated at Khadur Sahib where exists Gurdwara Darbar Sahib Angitha Sahib. Guru Amar Das Sahib was cremated at Goindwal Sahib and there exists Joti Jot Asthaan P: 3. Guru Ram Das Sahib also merged with the light at Goindwal Sahib but I don't recall the place. Guru Arjan Dev Sahib's body was not found as it was put in the Ravi. Guru Hargobind Sahib and Guru Har Rai Sahib were both cremated at Gurdwara Patalpuri Sahib at Keeratpur Sahib. Guru Harkrishan Sahib was cremated at Gurdwara Bala Sahib at Delhi and Guru Tegh Bahdur Sahib's body was cremated at Gurdwara Rakab Ganj Sahib (Delhi) while his sees was cremated at Gurdwara Sees Ganj Sahib (*Anandpur Sahib).

So, I'm not sure where this theory comes from that all the Gurus left with their bodies. It certainly doesn't have any basis in history or fact.

[Beast]

Well that's established then...so any ideas surrounding the death of Guru Gobind Singh Ji? I've heard about the two assassins attacking them, but didn't Guru Gobind Singh Ji survive this attack?

[karmjeet]

I'm not sure where the theory that Guru Sahib's bodies were not cremated came from. This is not in line with any existing history. Guru Nanak, according to the Sakhis, did indeed not leave behind his body and some stories say Guru Gobind Singh ji did the same, but others have proven from old sources that he was cremated (See Dr. Ganda Singh's book on this issue).

Guru Angad Dev jee was cremated at Khadur Sahib where exists Gurdwara Darbar Sahib Angitha Sahib. Guru Amar Das Sahib was cremated at Goindwal Sahib and there exists Joti Jot Asthaan P: 3. Guru Ram Das Sahib also merged with the light at Goindwal Sahib but I don't recall the place. Guru Arjan Dev Sahib's body was not found as it was put in the Ravi. Guru Hargobind Sahib and Guru Har Rai Sahib were both cremated at Gurdwara Patalpuri Sahib at Keeratpur Sahib. Guru Harkrishan Sahib was cremated at Gurdwara Bala Sahib at Delhi and Guru Tegh Bahdur Sahib's body was cremated at Gurdwara Rakab Ganj Sahib (Delhi) while his sees was cremated at Gurdwara Sees Ganj Sahib (Delhi).

So, I'm not sure where this theory comes from that all the Gurus left with their bodies. It certainly doesn't have any basis in history or fact.

There are some facts that are "gupt " and far above from the level of normal human understanding . these facts have no written history , no records and can't be proved by giving references . only those who are Brahmgyanis like Sant Gurbachan Singh Ji khalsa , Sant Kartar Singh Ji ,

Sant Harnam Singh ji rampur khere wale , etc . can know these facts through brahmgyan becus they r one with their guru .

or these facts can be known by doing sangat of such mahapurakhs .

or doing sangat of people who have done sangat of mahapurakhs and listened to these sakhis, facts etc.

and for most of the time these facts seem unacceptable and astonishing

[guv]

Well that's established then...so any ideas surrounding the death of Guru Gobind Singh Ji? I've heard about the two assassins attacking them, but didn't Guru Gobind Singh Ji survive this attack?

been a while since i read up on this, iirc guru gobind singh ji was attacked while asleep and stabbed. he killed one of the assassins on the spot & the other was taken care of by the body guards. guru ji was then treated by an english doctor who stitched up the wound. some time later while stringing a bow, the wound opened up once again and resulted in the death* of guru gobind singh ji.

(* replace with "magical disappearance" if your name is karmjeet)

[Hari]

Avtars are manifest (ie, "pargat"). The Gurus were BORN, hence their material bodies would suffer the ravages of time, and would perish.

The soul is eternal - it survives.

The Gurus themselves have stated that something that is BORN must DIE - but according to Karmjeet, the Gurus were hipocrites and never died.

The views represented by Karmjeet are typical of some factions of Sikhism that wish to turn it into another semetic religion with their revisionist attitude.

The 10 Nanak Satguru's were never born.The Satguru is always there, just like the air we breathe.The Satguru comes to reveal It's Self according to Divine Hukam.The body (anna-maya kosh) is not the Primal Satguru.The body is matter, and matter as you know subject to flux.The Satguru is not subject to Time and therefore flux.

Yes ten human beings were born and did die, who lived extrordinary lives.But the Satguru (Adi-Guru) who reveals It's Self and Sikhiya is never born.Is anything ever born?Seems to me matter does not give birth or bestow death, rather it is just subject to flux.Matter spits forth forms, which consciousness may or may not "occupy".

Satguru/Guru is never born.

[Narsingha]

Hari, thanks for the cosmic perspective...but the post was in reference to the concept of basic human biology here...ie, flesh and bones.

Should we employ the super cosmos theory as you suggest, then in essence we are never born and never die, as Akaal resides in everyone.

btw, very nice Avatar - looks like he could do with a lassi to cool himself down

[Dalvir]

thats still kinda hard to believe/understand. but w/e.

[Slugz]

Please translate...

I am only up to YANJA... hehe... I'm learning though, slowly but surely!