HOLDING HANDS is anti-gurmat..didn't you know?

[Guest Maha_Pavitar]

Well..they've done it again..tapoban has now said that yes even holding hands is ANTI-GURMAT for married (yup married!!!) couples..

It supposedly insults our elders..

:roll:

http://www.tapoban.org/phorum/read.php?f=1...271&t=28271

It is totally inappropriate for couples (gursikh couples) to hold hands in public. Only be-sharam and be-haiya (shameless) people who have no respect for elder gursikhs would act this way. This is western way and we should never adopt such inappropriate behaviour.

Gursikhs are not cheap exhibitionists of love and never resort to such cheap stuff. A gursikh should not even have a portrait taken in this way as we notice in some gursikhs houses. This is definitely a step in the wrong direction. kulbir singh

[Sukhi]

Gursikhs aren't exhibitionists of love?

then mebbe Gursikhs should stop showing their love for their Guru and take of those kakkars.

tha's a shameful exhibition of your love for your Guru.

ugh... where do these people come from?!

[Narsingha]

...apparently from the reaction on the thread in question, it appears that holding hands is OK...as long as the people in question are both males.

(freaky)

[Amrikingh]

lol

[Infernal Monk]

haha....people are too damn uptight, besides who are they to say what Sikhs can and can't do? lol...somepeople have nothing better to do...

[jsb]

c'mon, don't distrot them tooo much.. they've got a belief that they're sticking to.. although i disagree with them on it, i still think it's commednable that they're firm in what they believe.... if that means that they fele it's inappropriate to show love from one human ot another, in public, then instead of "making fun" of them, just don't listen to it, clearly it shouldn't bother you, correct?

[Infernal Monk]

c'mon, don't distrot them tooo much.. they've got a belief that they're sticking to.. although i disagree with them on it, i still think it's commednable that they're firm in what they believe.... if that means that they fele it's inappropriate to show love from one human ot another, in public, then instead of "making fun" of them, just don't listen to it, clearly it shouldn't bother you, correct?

sorry had to comment, I have an opinion, and I wanted to share it. They are allowed to give thier view, and me mine. I'm not telling them they are wrong, just I disagree...cause I think its silly..lol

[jsb]

this is true too, my apologies

[sexy_singh]

Its funny because i went to an AKJ all night kirtan event and saw plenty of hand holding amongst hte men. They even did other stuff like hug each other for long periods of time while chanting. I dont think their women are allowed to do that stuff though. I didnt notice it. But i was given looks when i sat down in the back (due to a lack of space) .

Anyway i agree with banning hand holding. I'll never have a hand to hold so i dont see why anyone else should either. Its obvious that this is for a hygiene reason .. you cant transfer germs if you dont hold/shake hands.

Thats the next step ofcourse. ban hand shakes. we got a perfectly fine greeting dont we? Why should we adopt the white mans western dirty greeting.

[Guest Maha_Pavitar]

Not trying to make fun..just trying to understand the concept..I guess if people can marry trees, banning hand holding amongst married couples isn't so bad :|

On a serious note though, I was trying to find the root cause of these 'macho' feelings..what is it exactly that causes so much protest at any signs of affection, especially something like holding hands? Speaking on psychological terms..it's a very interesting observation..

[Black Goddess]

I think someone fainted again..*shock*

[Pheena]

One can Hold Hand, Kiss, have Sex and still be Pure as ever. Other don't do any of those things and yet are Unpure.

[Guest Maha_Pavitar]

I agree Pheena..here is a great article that Amrit Veerji wrote:

You can enjoy a thing, which is different from you.

You enjoy food, because food is different from you. Food is not the part of your body or mind. It is different thing from you, so you can enjoy it.

You enjoy cloths, because cloths are different from you. Cloths are not part of your body or mind. These are different things from you, so you can enjoy them.

You enjoy flower, because flower is different from you. Flower is not the part of your body or mind. It is different thing from you, so you can enjoy it.

You enjoy your wife or husband (spouse), because your wife or husband is different from you. Your wife or husband is not the part of your body or mind. He or she is different person from you, so you can enjoy him or her.

You can enjoy a thing, which is different from you. You can enjoy honey, because it is different from you. How can you enjoy your own eye? You cannot; because it is a part of your body.

We think everything is different from us. We cannot think that whole universe is one; we are just a part of it. We are not different from it.

If we think, we are different from it, then it is a sin.

If we think, we are different from flower, then it is a sin.

If we think, we are different from our spouse, then it is a sin.

God wants unification (ektava). We will have to achieve the unification (ektava) with God, with our spouse.

If you enjoy your spouse, without attaining unification (ektava) with him/her, you are just making a sin.

When you catch your own hand with your own hand, how do you feel?

Do you feel like sexuality?

No, you do not feel like that, because that hand is a part of your body.

Similarly, if you catch your spouse’s hand, you should not feel that it is somebody else. Think, as it is a part of your own body. It is the unification (ektava) with your spouse, which God wants. If you touch your spouse, and you feel he/she is part of your own body, then you have attained the unification (ektava). Now you are husband and wife. If not, then you are just enjoying a prostitute.

To attain the unification (ektava) with your spouse is the goal of marriage. If you attained it, you are pass; if not, then you are fail.

[Narsingha]

...thank God for the baghnakka

(saves me the stress of worrying about holding anyone's hand or not!!)

[challenge_everything]

I think it's all an issue of sucham - lol!

[guv]

It is totally inappropriate for couples (gursikh couples) to hold hands in public. Only be-sharam and be-haiya (shameless) people who have no respect for elder gursikhs would act this way. This is western way and we should never adopt such inappropriate behaviour.

i haven't read the thread on tapoban, but just an observation from the section u've posted.

it seems the reason for not holding hands is because of what other ppl ("elder gursikhs") would think. now this is a punjabi (& to a lesser extent indian) cultural way of thinking, where noone is supposed to show any sort of romantic gestures in public (the general lack of kissing in bollywood films is one example.) what's really interesting is that most of the ppl on tapoban are completely against punjabi culture... except it seems when it can be used to support their prudish views.

[sexy_singh]

well said guv'nor.

[CK]

The tapobans are in Canada, right?

How about for all of those elder Canadians that truly don't care if a couple is holding hands or not...and may even be pleased by it, simply because they had a chance to see the happy sight of a couple in love.

I don't see holding hands as cheap. You can look at your spouse in a way that is inappropriate for the public. You can talk to your spouse in a way that is inappropriate for the public. Should these be banned too?

[Guest]

Well..they've done it again..tapoban has now said that yes even holding hands is ANTI-GURMAT for married (yup married!!!) couples..

It supposedly insults our elders..

:roll:

http://www.tapoban.org/phorum/read.php?f=1...271&t=28271

It is totally inappropriate for couples (gursikh couples) to hold hands in public. Only be-sharam and be-haiya (shameless) people who have no respect for elder gursikhs would act this way. This is western way and we should never adopt such inappropriate behaviour.

Gursikhs are not cheap exhibitionists of love and never resort to such cheap stuff. A gursikh should not even have a portrait taken in this way as we notice in some gursikhs houses. This is definitely a step in the wrong direction. kulbir singh

These guys make me laught man.

[palm_w1]

it is quite ridiculous telling a married couple how they should behave with one another!! however maha-pavitar you say this is the view of tapoban. is that the case or is it the view of their contributors? do the views expressed on this site mean they are the views of sikhawareness?

[sexy_singh]

what is a community if not the sum total of its parts.

[H4RPAL]

in response to the "tapoban has now said that yes even holding hands is ANTI-GURMAT for married (yup married!!!) couples" and "It is totally inappropriate for couples (gursikh couples) to hold hands in public. Only be-sharam and be-haiya (shameless) people who have no respect for elder gursikhs would act this way. This is western way and we should never adopt such inappropriate behaviour." quotes,

Judging by what I read on the tapoban site from the link you provided, it seems as though these are the opinions of INDIVIDUALS expressed on a forum. For this reason, I think it is unfair to label these views as the views of the forum itself. Upon raeding the entries, I personally thought that the view was far more balanced than I anticipated after reading some of the comments here

[guv]

having just read the tapoban thread, i agree with h4rpal... it is a fairly balanced thread... here's my pick of the replies:

Its perfectly OK, your soul says its perfectly OK but the social conditioning in our society says otherwise. Don't follow the crowd, be yourself.

please if u are married refrain from have emotions for ur partner

First of all, how often do you see an amritdhari gursikh couple holding hands in public? As the matter of fact I have never seen an amritdhari chardi kala couple (from any jatha) holding hands in public. How come? Because it is against the spirit of our Sikh culture.

read what i said in an earlier post.

Changing topics, how about something more important, like the issue of shoeslaces versus velcro. Is it really right to use shoelaces?

What are your views.

maybe a little off topic, but what about young/old men in india that freely walk the streets holding hands.

is that alright ???

under your narrow definition these guys are a bunch of dandy boys

when in reality their just friends

holding hands is an innocent display (father and child, friends, husband and wife), it's actually ones own limitations that lowers it to a lustful act.

Tony Singhprano

maybe he should read the Homosexuality in UK Budda Dal thread

hey, who wants to traumatize little kids?

i don't know what i would have done if i had seen my parents hold hands.

gross me out.

u knwo ur parents did much more then hold hands 2 concieve u rite?

:lol:

To me the act of holding hands is something innocent done out of affection, protection, like a mother or father and child brother or sister. When I hold my husbands hand it's a similar kind of affection for him as my long time companion and friend, like I am a child, we are two children, has nothing to do with anything which could be considered shameful-unless the mind of someone is so shameful that shameful thinking is all they know!

Sometimes it's even because I get disoriented and need support to walk or I should stumble and fall. My father in law was an amputee and depended on his wife to help him walk. My grandmother used to lean on my arm in the same way.I often walked through town holding hands with my sister or brother. Whether physical or emotional it's a kind of support.

I just feel outraged!

I'm sorry I don't like this feeling but I see 2 men holding hands at gurudwara, or 2 little girls holding hands, Or a newly married couple. I never think anything about it.

Why does someone have to think something bad or wrong is going on?

...

Age 52 Amritdhari

I bet the majority of those who see 'holding hands' in public are not born in the west, but in places like india. They have been brought up in an environment were affection cannot be shown between husband and wife, only behind closed doors. Those who are born in the west, typically do not see this as such an outragous thing, because of the environment we were brought up in/around.

Is it wrong for and singh and singhni to hold hands in public ? in my humble opinion, NO. But to me they are not doing the 'Bollywood' thing, its just affection for one another, not the public advertisement of their love, but seen through the eyes of some narrow minded folk, it is simply that...

going off on a tanget, how are we to draw people into the khalsa panth, when we are making sikhi, into something it is not!

My parents sometimes used to hold hands, when out in public, both being chardi-kala gursikhs, back in the late 1970's/80's in the UK. And both were born in the Punjab...and both to this day continue to do there sewa at the gurdwara, every weekend, like clock-work ...i do not feel they were 'ber-sharam'

And the earlier comment by Kulbir Singh, re. photographs, quite honestly, what next...

Punjab/India is overwhelmed with cases of sexual assult, rape, etc. becasue of this narrow minded thought process. We all think that sikhs in india are far away from sexual desires, but the reality is that they are over thrown by it... (just read the who's who of sants, and there behaviour.)

To conclude, argue till your blue in the face, but we are trying to make sikhi into a fundamentalist dream world, which it was never intended to be.

Gurfateh,

Kulbir Singh Dhillon UK wala

I bet the majority of those who see 'holding hands' in public are not born in the west, but in places like india. They have been brought up in an environment were affection cannot be shown between husband and wife, only behind closed doors. Those who are born in the west, typically do not see this as such an outragous thing, because of the environment we were brought up in/around.

Is it wrong for and singh and singhni to hold hands in public ? in my humble opinion, NO. But to me they are not doing the 'Bollywood' thing, its just affection for one another, not the public advertisement of their love, but seen through the eyes of some narrow minded folk, it is simply that...

going off on a tanget, how are we to draw people into the khalsa panth, when we are making sikhi, into something it is not!

My parents sometimes used to hold hands, when out in public, both being chardi-kala gursikhs, back in the late 1970's/80's in the UK. And both were born in the Punjab...and both to this day continue to do there sewa at the gurdwara, every weekend, like clock-work ...i do not feel they were 'ber-sharam'

And the earlier comment by Kulbir Singh, re. photographs, quite honestly, what next...

Punjab/India is overwhelmed with cases of sexual assult, rape, etc. becasue of this narrow minded thought process. We all think that sikhs in india are far away from sexual desires, but the reality is that they are over thrown by it... (just read the who's who of sants, and there behaviour.)

To conclude, argue till your blue in the face, but we are trying to make sikhi into a fundamentalist dream world, which it was never intended to be.

Gurfateh,

Kulbir Singh Dhillon UK wala

my conclusion... gkd the man!

[gupy]

people should all be embracing each other and making love

... theres just not enough love in the world !!!

PEACE DUDES!!!!