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Monaey (Cut Hair ) = Sikh ???


Har Naal Pyar
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Waheguru ji ka khalsa waheguru ji ki fateh

So what some of us are saying is that one can be called a sikh although they do not keep uncut hair?

It just sounds a bit weird to say 'Im a Sikh' but I don't listen to my Guru.

Does someone become a Sikh simply by SAYING they believe the Gurus to be the teachers of the truth or is being a sikh more than that?

If anyone is wandering about how my family cope with me, well I treat them like humans (lol) but if any of them have cut their hair OR do anything else that is considered to be very wrong in sikhi then I don't call them a sikh.

We are not born sikhs but have to become sikh.

Being a sikh is not about just saying u believe in the Gurus but actually believeing them and following the path they have shown as much as possible (thats wot I think )

I am verrrrrrrrry confused when ppl greet one another saying 'kidda Singh' when the person in front is a mona and in no way a Singh of Guru Gobind Singh Ji (IMO).

some ppl say sikhi should be in the heart and it doesnt matter how u look, man does that make me Q the Gurus and why they kept kesh if it wasnt all that important.

hope no one was offended by my views

WAheguru ji ka khalsa waheguru ji ki fateh

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"This is the directive of the Guru, that if the son of a Sikh shaves the head, His posterity shall be ruined, and if a shaven one becomes a Sikh, his descendants will flourish"

Sri Guru Gobind Singh Jee - Tankhah Nama Bhai Nand Lal Jee

The above tells you how much Guru jee valued the rehat of keeping hair, how can those whom apparently love Guru Jee, ignore such an imporant message of Guru Jee? Keeping hair is such a simple thing! People just long it up cos they dont have faith in Guru jee.

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Har Naal Pyaar, why do you feel the need to tell us who you consider sikhs? are you a true sikh in every sense of the word?

i'm not trying to make a personal attack on you per se, but for the longest time, all i've seen is people throw opinions and stereotypes and judgement out at each other over and over again.

i'm sick of seeing these mudslinging matches where NOBODY gains anything.

what does it really mean to be a sikh?

how important is amrit?

how important is kesh?

these are questions that all of us must answer for ourselves at our own developmental points.

why do people feel the need to tell others that they are less or more than them on this spiritual path?!

i am simply amazed at the lack of sensitivity and respect people have for each other. and this is just ONE out of countless times that i've seen reactions like this.

where in the world is that sense of humility present in our Gurus who knelt and touched the feet of sinners such as ourselves as a sign of respect?

where is that sense of equality that allowed them to see One in all?

where is that sense of tolerance that allowed radical social changes to occur in their followers?

why have we forgotten our roots of love?

why are we so concerned with what other people are doing wrong instead of what we need to improve on?

why is it so important to us what is lacking in others when we can't deal with what is lacking in us?

why do we feel the urge to needlessly attack each other over and over again over petty and unimportant issues instead of building compassion for one another?

not everyone in this world who calls themselves a sikh is going to end up taking amrit one day. that's just a matter of fact.

but what DOESN'T need to be a matter of fact is the way we segregate ourselves and treat each other with utter hostility because we think that someone is inferior to us.

*sighs*

i'm at a loss for words to describe the sickening feeling i have in my stomach that as time passes, the virtues we proclaim to respect are fading from our own community.

instead of spreading love and understanding, we foster hatred and intolerance.

what a fine legacy we turned out to be for our Gurus.

moving on.

for those of you arguing about hair and how monai aren't sikhs and are going on and on about how people who don't cut their hair don't listen to their guru:

i think it's safe to say that in this day and age, no one is listening to the guru.

guru sahib has said A LOT of stuff that pertains to being a sikh. forget about being a good sikh and keeping the rehat, many of us can't even do the other stuff that guru sahib continuously tells us to do, such as: not slandering others (gee i wonder who this applies to).

so before you go off and tell monai that they aren't sikhs because they don't have the outer appearance of one, please ensure that you really are a proper Gursikh and are doing EVERYTHING guru sahib tells you to.

otherwise, you're just another hypocrite like the rest of us.

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Waheguru ji ka khalsa waheguru ji ki fateh

Sukhi I once read that Baba Nand Singh Ji said that he was still trying to be a sikh (understandable cos sikhi is not that easy a path and he highlighted that its not as easy as some of us think).

SO, if anyone read my post above I said that I don't think ur a sikh if u cut ur hair or do anything else thats seriously wrong according to the Gurus.

Ninda is bad but I dont think its anywhere near as bad as cutting kesh.

I dont think it is 'safe' to say that no one is listening to the Guru, there are ppl out there (I'm not one of them BTW). BUT if u r right to say that no one in todays day is following the Guru then that means no one has proper faith in Guru Ji in which case none of us r sikhs.

In my view Sikhi is abt (not yet officially accepted by SGPC OR anyone as far as I know) having full faith in the Gurus and believing everything they say to be true an dthen trying to follow what they taught as far as possible.

Some think that once u said u respect the Gurus and all that then ur a sikh, but I thought that being becoming a student of the Guru involved some grade requirements like when u wanna apply to a uni, so to enrol u have to have kesh and not commit any other major sin (bujjer kureit).

the one Q that really puzzles me is if ur a sikh then why not keep kesh, why??

is the Guru's roop not good enough?

Waheguru ji ka khlalsa waheguru ji ki fateh

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k serious now. to keep ppl from stoping to cut there hair nowadays we have to give them love. by calling them non sikhs in a way u force them to turn there backs.

nowadays every1 wants to become a bad boy rapper. i say why not become a bad boy dhadi dj.

u guyz knows what iz saying!!!!?????

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Waheguru ji ka khalsa waheguru ji ki fateh

lol Doaba u make it sound like monas are not loved, I'll give em all a hug if that will make them keep their hair. btw i respect them just as much as amritdharis (but i c ur point)

I think sikhi is deeper than just saying ur a sikh and going to the Gurdwara on sundays or whatever, thats certainly on the path to sikhi. But a lot of us are on the path TO sikhi as opposed to ON it. (if that didnt make sense don stress just ignore me, assuming ur not already ofcourse!).

the prob is something like this, if we now say : ur a sikh even though u cut ur hair or do the Bibi Jagir act,

THEN aren't we lying to ourselves and letting a generation grow with the idea that they can be great sikhs even though they are doing wrong?

wont that be misrepresenting sikhi.

i dont get some khushi out of saying all this but dont u think it has to be said to all those that sometimes say they are better than the amritdharis in their path to sikhi?

Waheguru ji ka khalsa waheguru ji ki fateh

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Waheguru ji ka khalsa waheguru ji ki fateh

well then they need to do a course in sikhi abt being humble and all that.

But I think u shouldn't really generalise that much, 1st its ''all'' then its ''most'' and hopefully once u had a good night sleep it will be ''some'' or ''none''?

Yep I agree u get some stuck up ppl who r also amritdhari but I think u need to go and straighten them out. If u take my advice then just do it pyar naal. But no reason for anyone to turn away from SIKHI!

And I should point out, I'm amritdhari and I have amritdharis looking down on me lol, it's not always cos ur not amritdhari. They are humans at the end of the day.

B4 I go off, I just had a thought, all the amritdhaaris I know who have had some sort of religious experience are humble and show love to everyone. I'm assuming the rest are still waiting to but have still not had any religious experience? I think that was an interesting thought that came into my dum head, if someone understood what I'm on abt then I would appreciate it if u could give ur view on it.

Waheguru ji ka khalsa waheguru ji ki fateh

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I am sorry but monas can't be called Sikh. It is one of the bujjar kurehits. Therefore, unacceptable. Read the Sikh code of conduct at www.sgpc.net

In that case stop gurudawaras/commitees should believe this should stop collecting money from monay sikhs - yeah right !

That wouldn't happen. Why?

Because monays are only sikhs when these commitee want them to be, i.e when they need money of them. Scandalous.

Khalsa F - can't you see this ?

If it wasnt for the financial input of the monay sikh sangat - there would be hardly any gurdwaras in the Uk.

It's time to let go of these prejudices and hardlined views. Why? because the world is not as black and white as we would like it to be. There are grey areas, instead of trying to label people to suit your own level of understanding, don't you think its better to relax and chill out on these hardlined views and accept people for who they are rather than trying to force your views upon them?

I feel a sense of fanatacism in your views. why ? because some of your arguements lack reason, they give the impression; "my way or the highway", it might work on other forums, but here things are different, we have pluralistic atmosphere here.

fair enough you do have your views, but theres no need to shove them down our throats.

For those of you calling him names, just because your views are more relaxed doesn't mean you can call other people names ? he is a banda with his views. Why not give him pyare instead of slaps?

Fateh.

KF - you are most welcome to come chill with me(over a class of sukha - shardai if you insist - (i think not))

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Ninda is bad but I dont think its anywhere near as bad as cutting kesh.

hmm interesting.

1. Say im a Singh, and i spread rumours about you sleeping around with a kala, and you having an abortion. This gets back to your community, and your whole family are shunned upon, your dad is laughed at. NO body wants to marry you cos they think your a slag.

2. Im a mona who is a good friend of yours and shaves 3 times a week .

YEAH, CUTTING HAIR IS MUCH WORSE.

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Har Naal Pyaar, why do you feel the need to tell us who you consider sikhs? are you a true sikh in every sense of the word?

i'm not trying to make a personal attack on you per se, but for the longest time, all i've seen is people throw opinions and stereotypes and judgement out at each other over and over again.

i'm sick of seeing these mudslinging matches where NOBODY gains anything.

what does it really mean to be a sikh?

how important is amrit?

how important is kesh?

these are questions that all of us must answer for ourselves at our own developmental points.

why do people feel the need to tell others that they are less or more than them on this spiritual path?!

i am simply amazed at the lack of sensitivity and respect people have for each other. and this is just ONE out of countless times that i've seen reactions like this.

where in the world is that sense of humility present in our Gurus who knelt and touched the feet of sinners such as ourselves as a sign of respect?

where is that sense of equality that allowed them to see One in all?

where is that sense of tolerance that allowed radical social changes to occur in their followers?

why have we forgotten our roots of love?

why are we so concerned with what other people are doing wrong instead of what we need to improve on?

why is it so important to us what is lacking in others when we can't deal with what is lacking in us?

why do we feel the urge to needlessly attack each other over and over again over petty and unimportant issues instead of building compassion for one another?

not everyone in this world who calls themselves a sikh is going to end up taking amrit one day. that's just a matter of fact.

but what DOESN'T need to be a matter of fact is the way we segregate ourselves and treat each other with utter hostility because we think that someone is inferior to us.

*sighs*

i'm at a loss for words to describe the sickening feeling i have in my stomach that as time passes, the virtues we proclaim to respect are fading from our own community.

instead of spreading love and understanding, we foster hatred and intolerance.

what a fine legacy we turned out to be for our Gurus.

Yep, finally someone who sees it like me lol

The Gurus have said loads of times how they bow to a sikh of the guru

Jo Desai Gursikhra tis niv niv lago paie jeeo

This is not nimrata , as that would be a lie, but is the truth, so this brings us to ask, what is a sikh really about??

This is also answer in gurbani, where it is written that a sikh is the guru

guroo sikh sikh guroo hai eaeko gur oupadhaes chalaaeae

Meaning to say that the guru and his sikh are the same, and they both spread the gurus teachings...

Sukhi where u said

"where in the world is that sense of humility present in our Gurus who knelt and touched the feet of sinners such as ourselves as a sign of respect? " - That kinda thought requires bibek budhi, only sikhs have that , like for example they will see a drunkyard with a bottle and say i wish i had pyar like that for my guru, the way that guy loves his drink...

"instead of spreading love and understanding, we foster hatred and intolerance." - Thats true everywhere, hence and because

Nanak dukhia sabh sansar

Anyways, sorry if those were rhetorical questions lol....but i strongly urge a moderator to sort this out...this mudslingin shud be sorted out..make it a forum rule...no personal attacks....but i guess its never gna be sorted properly...forums are always gna be a place for ppl to argue and attack each other...id just like to say that even one second of krodh destroys any gud that you might have gained from here....

kaam krodhh jeea mehi chott ||

Sexual desire and anger are the wounds of the soul.

If you feel that ur message is not being understood then quit saying it, your jus wasting your time , and gettin frustrated doesnt help

mandhaa kisai n aakheeai parr akhar eaeho bujheeai

Do not call anyone bad; read these words, and understand.

moorakhai naal n lujheeai

Don't argue with fools

Forum discussions should be relevant to the topic...which im saying again....also why is it that people cannot distinguish between discussion and argument???

Moderators, do your job properly!

oh and sukhi, dnt feel disgusted...and dont be surprised when you see this, it is the way of the world...and you say that

"... as time passes, the virtues we proclaim to respect are fading from our own community"

well the community is made up of individuals, and if each individual looks at him/herself then the community will flourish...bt guruji says again and again, this is kalyug and its gna get alot worse before it gets better....

its pointless expecting anything...only thing that we can do is try to better ourselves...

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Waheguru ji ka khalsa waheguru ji ki fateh

Morpheus, I think Gurdwara people take money from anyone and everyone and don't usually feel the need to say he is a sikh so take money from him and he is not a sikh so don't take money from him. I know hindus who give money, and?????

I don't think that Khalsa Fauj saying the world is black and white but I believe Sikhi is when it comes to 'this is a bujjer kurreit and this isn't'.

I don't think anyone is forcing their views on anyone, now maybe I got it wrong but I thought this was a forum where u type ur views or even some crazy views no matter what they are as long as you're not breaking any forum rules, if me or KF did then tell us and I wont come back onto this forum again (pakka).

Now in reply to the post u sent me, in reality ur a singh and I'm sleeping with a kala and everyone knows that and no one has laughed at my dad so far, I got cousins who are married to goras big deal. And why do I need anyone to marry me when I got my kala?

Now lets pretend it wasn't true, then that would make u a bad human being but I was looking at kesh from the view of sikhi and I was looking at sikhi from my view.

I never said my view was right, from what I can remember I did not say the SGPC agreed with me and if I did it was a typing error.

Waheguru ji ka khalsa waheguru ji ki fateh

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Waheguru ji ka khalsa waheguru ji ki fateh

Sukhi if u re-read my last few posts I think that will answer the 1st few Qs.

Now I think I should point out I did NOT start a topic on who is a sikh and who is not, I only joined in a discussion between KHalsa Fauj and cant remember who else.

U've asked me why i'm trying to point out what others lack instead of concentrating on myself, I assure u I have not neglected myself and as a member I am entitled to reply to a discussion just like you have now!

If u were saying I lack sensitivity then maybe I should say I DID NOT POST ANYTHING TO OFFEND ANYONE. I posted a view, a view that it is wrong to cut ur hair, I did not say I'm a great Sikh and everyone else is not and follow me.

I have not fogotten my roots of love, I'm sorry but next time I'll try to post with a lot of pyar. But just thinking, if I give my view on what I thinka sikh is, does that mean I can only love sikhs?

Sukhi I don't know how much of that post was directed at me, but if it was all then I'm shocked, I only gave an opinon on sikhi and I said my definition has not been accepted by anyone (and I said that to make clear that I'm not saying I'm right but this is my opinion.

I don't think anyone is inferior to anyone, and if that was directed at me then bhenji/bhaaji whoever u r , I'm at a loss for words now.

In fact I think u will find that I may be trying to share my understanding with others and even u said in ur post that we should do that.

Waheguru ji ka khalsa waheguru ji ki fateh

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I don't think anyone is forcing their views on anyone, now maybe I got it wrong but I thought this was a forum where u type ur views or even some crazy views no matter what they are as long as you're not breaking any forum rules, if me or KF did then tell us and I wont come back onto this forum again (pakka).

You guys didnt broke any rule of this forum so guys please don't get emotional here.

Sikhawareness team notify members when there is any rules broken.

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When did i say someone with a turban and does wrog stuff is a Sikh.

Both are wrong. Having turban and calling yourself Sikh and doing wrong is worse than being a mona and calling yourself a Sikh. Sikhi is all about rehat.

Rehat pyaaree mohay ko Sikh pyaara Nahee.

Rehat Binaa Nhai Sikh Khaavai Rehat Binna Dar Choataa Khaavai

Rehatnama Bhai Nand lal and other rehatnamas also say that a Sikh must never give his daughter's hand to a mona. I am not making this up.

According to Hukamnamas of Guru Ji, Guru Ji says that Kesh is my mohar so by cutting you are throwing away the mohar (stamp). Take a paper a write something on it and say it is an official document, no one will believe you. Similar to that a person can't be called Sikh unless hair is present and are uncut.

Further:

Hukamnama from Guru Gobind Singh Ji says not to have any type of relationship with a narimaar, kurimaar, dheermaleeas, meenas and masands, or sirgums.

Sirgums are people who are born in Sikh family but cut their hair after keeping. Sehajdhari Sikh is someone who is in the process of preparing himself/herself to take Khanday Dee Pahul. Not monas.

Furthermore, at Akal Takht Sahib, only Kesadharis can offer Akhand Paath. Akhand Paaths by people claiming to be Sikh while cutting hair are not accepted.

We do respect monas as long as they don't claim to be Sikh. No offence but if majority calling themselves Sikh didn't cut their hair, france in no way shape of form would have been able to place a ban on our beloved Pagri (turban).

Bhul Chuk Maaf

Akaal Akaal Akaal Akaal Akaal say ti 5 times everytime you have time.

Waheguru Ji Ka Khalsa Waheguru Ji Ki Fateh!

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We do respect monas as long as they don't claim to be Sikh. No offence but if majority calling themselves Sikh didn't cut their hair, france in no way shape of form would have been able to place a ban on our beloved Pagri (turban).

what your definatation of "Sehajdhari Sikh" ?

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article by amritpal singh veeer ji

source: http://www.amritworld.com/definition_of_sikh.html

The definition of Sikh

(Amrit Pal Singh 'Amrit')

In the 'Sikh reht maryada', there has been written a definition of a Sikh. The 'Shiromani Gurdwara Parbandhak Committee' has published its English Translation too.

According to the translation, this is the definition of Sikh

"Any human being, who faithfully believes in

(1) One immortal Being,

(2) Ten Gurus, from Guru Nanak Dev to Guru Gobind Singh,

(3) The Guru Granth Sahib,

(4) The utterances and teachings of the ten Gurus and

(5) The baptism bequeathed by the tenth Guru,

And who does not owe allegiance to any other religion, is a Sikh."

Often, we ignore the deep meanings of a simple definition. In the definition of Sikh, 'Sikh reht maryada' has made every point clear. Even then, some people are trying to create confusion about the definition of a Sikh.

The points given in the 'Sikh reht maryada' have been discussed in this article.

In original script of 'Sikh reht maryada', which is in Punjabi language, words 'istree jaan purash' (woman or man) have been used. So, it is clear, according to 'Sikh reht maryada', that word 'Sikh' is used both for a male and a female.

Word 'Sikhni' also has been used for a Sikh woman, as word 'Singhni' is used for an Amritdhari woman. Even in this 'Sikh reht maryada', the word 'Sikhni' has been used (see the second point of the portion describing 'Sadharan Path' and the first point of the portion 'Anand sanskar'). Although grammatically word 'Sikh' is a masculine word and 'Sikhni' is feminine, in practical this word is used for both genders.

First condition for a Sikh is he/she believes in the God. He/she cannot be an atheist. Word 'Sikh' has also been used in ancient Buddhist scriptures for the Buddhists. The Buddhists are believed to be atheists. But according to 'Sikh reht maryada', a Sikh in 'Sikhism' believes in the God. This is his first characteristic. It is impossible to think about a nonbeliever Sikh. If we go deep into this point, we can get conclusion that a Sikh cannot join any such a political/social/cultural organization, which promotes atheism. A Sikh has been ordered to preach theism: -

"Aap japo avrah Naam japaavoh." (Chant the Naam yourself, and inspire others to chant it as well).

(Sri Sukhmani Sahib, in Sri Guru Granth Sahib, page 289).

Grammatically, word 'Sikh' means disciple. It is also translated as 'student'. Actually word 'Sikh' is derived from the Sanskrit word 'Shishya' (disciple). This word has been used in this meaning sometimes in Guru Granth Sahib too. For example, "Kabeer Sikh saakha bahutey keeye, Kesho keeyo naa meet." (Kabeer! you have made many students and disciples, but you have not made God your friend). (Guru Granth Sahib, page 1369). So, we see that the word 'Sikh' has generally been used for any disciple of any Guru in old scriptures. To differentiate from others, there has been told another characteristic of a 'Sikh' in Sikhism.

A Sikh is a person who believes in ten Gurus, (from Guru Nanak Dev Ji to Guru Gobind Singh) and Guru Granth Sahib Ji. Now word 'Sikh' is a proper noun. For us, word 'Sikh' means 'a Sikh of Guru Nanak-Guru Gobind Singh-Guru Granth Sahib'. Now for the entire world, the word 'Sikh' means 'a Sikh of Guru Nanak-Guru Gobind Singh-Guru Granth Sahib'. 'A Sikh of Gautam Buddha' is a 'Buddhist'. 'A Sikh of Kabeer' is 'Kabeer Panthee'. But 'a Sikh of Guru Nanak-Gobind Singh-Guru Granth Sahib' is 'the Sikh'. No need to know what old dictionaries say about word 'Sikh'.

Many people tried to preach their own opinions under the name of Sikhism. They tried to use word 'Sikh' for their followers, but in vain. Some of them are now known as 'Nirankaris'. Some of them are now known as 'Naamdharis'. They can call themselves 'Nirankari-sikh' and 'Naamdhari-sikh', not just a 'Sikh' because a 'Sikh' means a 'Sikh of Guru Nanak-Gobind Singh-Guru Granth'. This is the point we must understand.

'Sikh reht maryada' made another point very clear. A Sikh is a person, who believes in 'Sri Guru Granth Sahib'. Word 'Guru' is very important. It is 'Sri Guru Granth Sahib', not just 'Granth Sahib'. It means that a Sikh is a person who believes that this 'Granth' (book) is his 'Guru'. There is not any other Guru for him/her. He/she does not accept any other living human being as his/her Guru. If someone does so, he/she has right to, but one thing is certain that he/she is not a 'Sikh', according to 'Sikh reht maryada'. So, 'Sikh reht maryada' indicates that a 'Sikh' does not accept any living human being as his/her Guru. Only Sri Guru Granth Sahib is his/her Guru.

A Sikh obeys the sacred hymns of Guru Granth Sahib Ji. But there are holy hymns of Guru Gobind Singh Ji, which are not included in Guru Granth Sahib Ji. So, 'Sikh reht maryada' says that a Sikh obeys the sacred hymns of ten Gurus. Thus, a Sikh is a person who believes in Gurbani (holy hymns of ten Gurus), whether it is written in Guru Granth Sahib, or not.

A Sikh also believes in the 'Amrit by the tenth Guru'. ('Sikh reht maryada' also describes how this 'Amrit' can be prepared.) Only 'the five beloved ones' have right to baptize (to give Amrit) anyone.

Last characteristic of a Sikh is that he/she does not believe in any other religion.

Thus, according to 'Sikh reht maryada', any male or female, who believes in One Immortal Being, ten Gurus (from Sri Guru Nanak Dev Ji to Sri Guru Gobind Singh Sahib), Sri Guru Granth Sahib and the sacred hymns and teaching of the ten Gurus, and tenth Guru's Amrit; and who does not believe in any other religion, is a Sikh.

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How pathetic i think som of uz r. serious manz ain't got a clue. Respects d humans c cus as d 1 pos says u neva know whats gonna happen to uz when ya die.

Ea games challenge everything u got it right. what a shame ppl or should i say sikhs or beta, amrit sak ppl think think they r higher than the normal guy selling food at the corner grocery store.

Sikh is every1 manz gotta recognise. Who r u to say anyting to a mom or pop who r not on the sikhsm path but there kids r amrit sak. u guyz may say the kids r beta cus they amrit sak but iz say no i say the mom and pop r cuz they gave birth to the kids and if it wasn't for them the kids had no chance to come on this planet to take d amrit.

Wha ya ppls say?

Av 1 question for ya. Were Guru Nanak dev jis mom and pop sikhs...did they take d amrit of charan paul?????

i'm sure uz lot can answer this easy so bring it on.

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Having turban and calling yourself Sikh and doing wrong is worse than being a mona and not calling yourself a Sikh.

being a mona & not calling yourself a sikh is wrong?

u've also said numerous times that being a mona & calling urself a sikh is wrong. so it seems that u think anyone who cuts their hair is wrong regardless of whether they call themselves sikhs or not! how do u get through each day having to deal with so many wrong ppl?

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