Hiding 1984's Genocidal Truth

[palm_w1]

"you do realise that Bruce Lung is a Hong Kong film actor, not a reference to drugs?"

yes

"do we at least agree that bhindranwale was a terrorist?"

if you can present me with valid evidence that he carried out terrorist activities then i will agree with you that he is terrorist. if you are going to rely on scaremongering and the rumour spreading you have currently tended to, such as painting me as a fanatic, then i do not recognise this. I do not know enough about bhindrawale or have any unbiased sources to make judgement from. Most of the details i know of him have come from indian media sources and i cannot trust these to convey the truth.

however i do recognise that certain members of certain sikh factions have carried out crimes against other sikhs as well as non-sikhs. e.g. certain babbers enforcing people to wear dumallas etc. contracts carried out on people due to personal vengences etc. these crimes pale into insignificance however when compared to the mass genocide and crimes carried out by the paramillitary instruments of the indian state.

[Bruce Lung]

look palm i don't know you at all and i have not attempted to paint you as a fanatic. you have attempted to paint me as a drug addict though..

i think we can get on just fine as long as we can lay down the truth about some basic facts. bhindranwale was the figurehead of the khalistan movement and he was very careful about what he said. nevertheless he did not take sufficient care the check the actions of the youths who took him as an inspirational khalistani leader. non-sikhs were oppressed and intimidated in punjab in the early 80s - many businessmen were threatened and buses containing non-sikhs were blown up. in fact there was a lot of blowing up and killing going on. bhindranwale did not try to stop anyone, even though the widespread perception was that this was going on his name. he even recommended that every pind should have a motorcycle and 3 lads with guns. what for apart from for assassinations?

are you now going to tell me that the fears and anxieties of non-sikhs in those days were ill-founded and paranoid? because of skunk consumption?

non-sikhs were being terrorised out of punjab, and left their ancestral homeland in fear. that sounds like terrorism to me.

[palm_w1]

thank you for your comments but you still fail to objectively convince me.

firstly let me address some of your points. my reference to your drug consumption was meant to be a humourus take on how you manage to justify murderers being sheltered by the Indian regime. Let me point out to all readers of this forum that I have no evidence that Bruce Lung is a drug addict but it was merely meant to be humourful, perhaps i need to sort out my sense of humour, maybe you do. I leave it to society as a whole to decide what is normal.

you say you never attempted to paint me as a fanatic yet you make statements like " it's obvious that they would kill me on the spot for being anti-khalistani if they had the chance". How was it obvious I would do this, especially when as you state in your own words so eloquently " palm i don't know you at all".

as we are laying down facts about bhindrawale i can comment from mp3's i have listened to by him. perhaps you should listen to them to, as you seem to misquote him.

firstly bhindrwale did not appoint himself as the figurehead of khalistan, it was khalistani groups who did that, hepled by the media and various rumour mongers. the primary source (mp3) i have listened to, in which bhindrawale states he has no desire to create a khalistan. regarding his non-action against youths, you assume here that he had the power to stop them, please present this evidence to the world. yes non-sikhs were targeted, but most khalistani groups targeted more sikhs than they did non-sikhs so i think it is rather self defeating for you to highlight this. indeed there was a lot of blowing up and killing going on, and a lot of it was carried out by instruments of the indian state. regarding the motorcycles and guns that you talk about, you somehow manage to jump to the conclusion that it was for assainations. have you heard the speech in which he talks of this, i have. if you listen properly rather than quoting selectively you will see why he reccomends this, however i can understand why you may want to omit this from your account above as again it defeats your arguments. it was to protect the people from state terrorism, he encouraged the villages to arm themselves to defend themselves from the forces of the beloved indian goverment.

try and paint as rosy a picture as you want but without evidence and having to resort to rhetoric your arguments are hollow. bhindrwale did say things i disagree with strongly however you are still to convince me he was a terrorist or at the head of this evil empire out to destroy all hindus.

"i think we can get on just fine as long as we can lay down the truth about some basic facts."

i am sure we will get on fine as long as we lay down the TRUTH and basic FACTS rather than hypothesising and misquoting. we aren't in a kangaroo court in india and evidence needs to be water tight in the real world before we can point fingers. also please do not take my words as a personal attack, i am just questioning the credibility of some of what you say and trying to balance the arguments on the forum.

[Infernal Monk]

rule of law was suspended and emergency powers implemented at the time of the punjab emergency. there is no way anyone could have attacked the site of the golden temple without stirring up even the moderate sikhs, and yet it was a catch-22 - couldn't get the bad guys without going in there and physically taking them.

yes, a lot of people took the heat who weren't to blame. but the extremists had succeeded in scaring the govt. the govt took the decision to utterly crush the seeds of any future rebellion, and a lot of crimes had the tacit approval of govt officials and police.

sikhs then and now comprise a very large (disproportionately large) segment of the indian armed forces and police.

counter-insurgency measures are a type of WARFARE and are very very painful. things should not have been allowed to fester for them to become necessary. bhindranwale and followers should have been taken out 8 years earlier, but he was actually a seed of indira gandhi.

I was referring to the riots that ensued after the assassination of Indira Gandhi...you know the mobs going around killing innocent Sikhs because "they" had killed her?

Not talking about the army attacking Harimandir Sahib.

And I agree with Palm, you seem to think yourself to be quite clever, and imply many things...interesting for disscussion though..

oh and don't worry you won't strike any kind of nerve here..lol:

"Arguing on the internet is like the special olympics. No matter who wins, it's still retarded." I don't get angy over what a stranger says on the net...hehe

[The Khalsa Fauj]

Sikhs didn't kill Hindus. Indian govt. did it so Hindus start hating Sikhs and so Sikhs can be defamed on internation level. RAW did it. Some even have admitted. e.g. kp gill

[The Khalsa Fauj]

here is another one

Don’t mess around

I will knock you on the ground

Like a tiger, I will pound

I will throw you away like a pitcher throwing a ball on the mound

Soldiers are strong

Why? They do no wrong

Hit you in the head with a metal bar that is long

Hey Playa! Don’t sing me a song

This is my yard

I am standing on guard

Don’t run away like a cow

We won’t feed you dog chow

I will be coming to town

Don’t come out in your night gown

Some people including me will frown

Since I am the King, present me with the crown

[palm_w1]

khalsa fauj while i agree with you that the RAW and other indian agencies did a lot of crimes while pretending to be sikhs it is also fact that some sikhs did indiscriminately kill hindus (albeit on nowhere near the scale that some would have you believe). to think otherwise is delusional.

[Infernal Monk]

agree wit da palm