BhagatSingh Posted February 22, 2016 Report Share Posted February 22, 2016 36 minutes ago, amardeep said: Sorry where does it say Chandi creates Mahakal. Can you post the verses Refer to our previous discussion. I explained it in detail there. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted February 23, 2016 Report Share Posted February 23, 2016 7 hours ago, amardeep said: What does the above in hindi mean? the author is saying that the use of these names like Bhagauti are metaphorical only, He/She says Bhagauti means 'a pure mind' (free of manmat), and denounces people who say that the word Bhagauti= Bhagavati = Chandi as being fools 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted February 25, 2016 Report Share Posted February 25, 2016 use of word in Sukhmani does indeed imply that it refers to a devotee of some kind 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BhagatSingh Posted February 25, 2016 Report Share Posted February 25, 2016 4 hours ago, Guest guest said: use of word in Sukhmani does indeed imply that it refers to a devotee of some kind Yes Bhagawati means follower of Bhagawat/Vishnu. Notice that the Bhagawati ashtpadis follow from the Vaishnu ashtpadis. They are the both referring to followers of the supreme God, Vishnu. They are to be read together. Some fun facts for you - 1. In the Vaishav religions, the Supreme God is called Bhagawat/Vishnu/Hari/Ram/Krishna. 2.The supreme God is imagined with certain qualities. Somebody drew a blue man with four arms as a representation of Supreme God. He is drawn with four arms so you don't mistake him for a drawing of a human being, (meaning no human has four arms so this is not a picture of a human). 3. Pay particular attention to the objects in his four hands, these are referring to certain qualities of the Supreme God, Vishnu. Shankh - Naad Swaroop, he recognized when you hear a shankh while meditating Swadarshan Chakra - resides everywhere, recognized within yourself (swa-darshan) Padam - recognized through sensitivity, he is blossoming. He is recognized when things become more beautifiul for you Gada - his hukam reigns through the universe, he recognized as per his hukam 4. You have probably read his stories. His popular followers include bhagats like Dhruv, Prahlaad, Arjun, Ganika, Ajamal, etc. 5. The 9 modes of Bhagti (including simran), were taught by Bhagat Prahlaad ji in Bhagawat Puran. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted February 25, 2016 Report Share Posted February 25, 2016 Oh...kay....thats a little... condescending... As per google search/wikipedia (hey i admit where my knowledge comes from) Bhagavat refers to devotee, Bhagavan refers to God. (as per 'fun fact' 1., it doesnt refer to God). I would be interested to know if the word 'Bhagauti' occurs in Sanskrit, or there is a devotinal lineage with that name. I have not seemed Bhagavti used anywhere, yet? The astapadis are meant to be read together, yes I think we know that... but thank you. There are other forms of devotees also mentioned alongside. I don't think Chaturbhuja (four armed) form of the Lord is believed to an artists metaphor or invention- I think God was actually revealed in that way to some devotees. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BhagatSingh Posted February 26, 2016 Report Share Posted February 26, 2016 1 hour ago, Guest guest said: Oh...kay....thats a little... condescending... A little condescending? that was SUPER condescending. Bhagatsingh's a proper douchebag. On 2016-02-22 at 6:19 PM, Guest guest said: Bhagat Singh I thought SGGS was anti-avtar of God. They are only avtars of Vishnu of the Trimurti, not the Supreme Himself, who doesn't take birth. Maybe I have misunderstood it. I was actually responding to your post from another thread, quoted above. 1 hour ago, Guest guest said: As per google search/wikipedia (hey i admit where my knowledge comes from) Bhagavat refers to devotee, Bhagavan refers to God. (as per 'fun fact' 1., it doesnt refer to God). Wikipedia spelled it wrong. Bhagawat has the same meaning as Bhagawan, Bhagawant. These are all related words. Bhagat Baini Ji says- ਕਲਿ ਭਗਵਤ ਬੰਦ ਚਿਰਾਂਮੰ ॥ ਕ੍ਰੂਰ ਦਿਸਟਿ ਰਤਾ ਨਿਸਿ ਬਾਦੰ ॥੧॥ ਰਹਾਉ ॥ On the outside you pray to the beautiful Bhagawat for hours, but on the inside you have false/evil perceptions, so all your nights praying go to waste. So whenever you have doubts, remember Bhagatsingh is always right. ;) 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted February 27, 2016 Report Share Posted February 27, 2016 note to be unpleasant, but you could not even read the above hindi properly, and gave a false impression of what it stated. so i wouldnt personally embrace your word etymologies regarding sanskrit etc. also why don't you respond 'to a comment from another thread'...on that thread? You didnt even asnwer the point from that thread, i.e. Doesnt SGGS differentiate between Vishnu avtaars and supreme God? that was a genuine question and not a veiled statement. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BhagatSingh Posted February 27, 2016 Report Share Posted February 27, 2016 20 hours ago, Guest guest said: note to be unpleasant, but you could not even read the above hindi properly, and gave a false impression of what it stated. so i wouldnt personally embrace your word etymologies regarding sanskrit etc. also why don't you respond 'to a comment from another thread'...on that thread? You didnt even asnwer the point from that thread, i.e. Doesnt SGGS differentiate between Vishnu avtaars and supreme God? that was a genuine question and not a veiled statement. Very unpleasant. Try asking nicely and I'll consider answering. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dalsingh101 Posted February 27, 2016 Report Share Posted February 27, 2016 Quote A little condescending? that was SUPER condescending. Bhagatsingh's a proper douchebag. I respect that level of honesty and self-awareness. lol! 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BhagatSingh Posted February 27, 2016 Report Share Posted February 27, 2016 27 minutes ago, dalsingh101 said: I respect that level of honesty and self-awareness. lol! Lol that's the reason why I am so obnoxious. This is some next level ahankar. ;) 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ragmaala Posted February 27, 2016 Report Share Posted February 27, 2016 18 minutes ago, BhagatSingh said: Lol that's the reason why I am so obnoxious. This is some next level ahankar. ;) Agree & Amplify to the level of absurdness ? ;) 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
paapiman Posted February 27, 2016 Report Share Posted February 27, 2016 22 hours ago, Guest guest said: Doesnt SGGS differentiate between Vishnu avtaars and supreme God? that was a genuine question and not a veiled statement. You are right Guest jee that Vishnu jee's avtaars are different from Sri Satguru jee (Avtaars of Almighty God). The word "Bishan/Vishnu" is a name of the Almighty God. There is a demi-God by the name of Vishnu jee too, who has taken 23 Avtaars so far. Similarly, the word "Sada Shiv" is a name of the Almighty God, but some people started calling a demi-God, by the name of Mahadev jee/Shambu jee as "Sada Shiv". ਮਹਾਂਦੇਵ ਕੌ ਕਹਤ ਸਦਾ ਸ਼ਿਵ ॥ ਨਿਰੰਕਾਰ ਕਾ ਚੀਨਤ ਨਹਿ ਭਿਵ ॥੩੯੨॥ Mahaadeva Kou Kahata Sadaa Shiva ॥ Niraankaar Kaa Cheenata Nahi Bhiva ॥392॥ महांदेव कौ कहत सदा शिव ॥ निरंकार का चीनत नहि भिव ॥३९२॥ He calls Shiva “The Eternal Lord, “but he does not know the secret of the Formless Lord.392. Please review the below thread. Maharaaj (Tenth Master) proved that Sri Satguru jee (First Master) was greater than any previous Avtaar. Bhul chuk maaf 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dalsingh101 Posted February 27, 2016 Report Share Posted February 27, 2016 41 minutes ago, BhagatSingh said: Lol that's the reason why I am so obnoxious. This is some next level ahankar. ;) Is it something you feel needs urgent addressing or do you like living with it? 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BhagatSingh Posted February 27, 2016 Report Share Posted February 27, 2016 32 minutes ago, Ragmaala said: Agree & Amplify to the level of absurdness ? ;) Yes and no. Well there's two things going on there. One is what you are saying about my reply to guest, and one is what Dally is talking about, which is more of an inside thing. 14 minutes ago, dalsingh101 said: Is it something you feel needs urgent addressing or do you like living with it? Hoi hai sohi, jo Ram rache rakha. It is all experience and to be seen as such. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BhagatSingh Posted February 27, 2016 Report Share Posted February 27, 2016 Paapimaan, this is what I mean when I say you have to view these as different religions. If you don't recognize the different religious structures operating here, you are not going to have a good understanding of these texts. Not even simple lines will make sense unless you see the structures operating underneath. 54 minutes ago, paapiman said: You are right Guest jee that Vishnu jee's avtaars are different from Sri Satguru jee (Avtaars of Almighty God). The word "Bishan/Vishnu" is a name of the Almighty God. There is a demi-God by the name of Vishnu jee too, who has taken 23 Avtaars so far. No where does it say that in Guru Granth Sahib. Refer to - Quote Similarly, the word "Sada Shiv" is a name of the Almighty God, but some people started calling a demi-God, by the name of Mahadev jee/Shambu jee as "Sada Shiv". ਮਹਾਂਦੇਵ ਕੌ ਕਹਤ ਸਦਾ ਸ਼ਿਵ ॥ ਨਿਰੰਕਾਰ ਕਾ ਚੀਨਤ ਨਹਿ ਭਿਵ ॥੩੯੨॥ Mahaadeva Kou Kahata Sadaa Shiva ॥ Niraankaar Kaa Cheenata Nahi Bhiva ॥392॥ महांदेव कौ कहत सदा शिव ॥ निरंकार का चीनत नहि भिव ॥३९२॥ He calls Shiva “The Eternal Lord, “but he does not know the secret of the Formless Lord.392. Maha Dev means Supreme God. ਦੇਵਨ ਕੋ ਦੇਵ ਮਹਾਦੇਵ ਹੂੰ ਕੇ ਦੇਵ ਹੈਂ ਨਿਰੰਜਨ ਅਭੇਵ ਨਾਥ ਅਦ੍ਵੈ ਅਬਿਨਾਸਿ ਹੈਂ ॥੧੦॥੨੬੨॥ Look that up in Akal Ustat. So this gurmukhi - ਮਹਾਂਦੇਵ ਕੌ ਕਹਤ ਸਦਾ ਸ਼ਿਵ ॥ ਨਿਰੰਕਾਰ ਕਾ ਚੀਨਤ ਨਹਿ ਭਿਵ ॥੩੯੨॥ Cannot mean what you think it means -He calls Shiva “The Eternal Lord, “but he does not know the secret of the Formless Lord.392. If it does not mean what you think it means then what does it mean? What it is talking about is this- ਮਹਾਂਦੇਵ ਕੌ ਕਹਤ ਸਦਾ ਸ਼ਿਵ ॥ ਨਿਰੰਕਾਰ ਕਾ ਚੀਨਤ ਨਹਿ ਭਿਵ ॥੩੯੨॥They keep saying, Mahadev means Sada Shiv but they do not understand who Mahadev or Sada Shiv is, in their experience. In Shaiv religions ਮਹਾਂਦੇਵ, ਸਦਾ ਸ਼ਿਵ, ਨਿਰੰਕਾਰ are three names of Supreme God. It's like saying - You call Supreme God as Supreme God but you do not know what Supreme God is. This sentence is like me (Bhagat) saying to you (Paapiman) - You say that "Vishnu" is a name of the Almighty God but you do not understand what any of that means. The principle here is this - Simply knowing the meaning of one of names of God, does not give you access to the knowledge of God. Language does not give Brahmgyan, exploration of one's inner Atma, who is Parmatma, gives Brahmgyan. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
paapiman Posted February 27, 2016 Report Share Posted February 27, 2016 35 minutes ago, BhagatSingh said: Maha Dev means Supreme God. ਦੇਵਨ ਕੋ ਦੇਵ ਮਹਾਦੇਵ ਹੂੰ ਕੇ ਦੇਵ ਹੈਂ ਨਿਰੰਜਨ ਅਭੇਵ ਨਾਥ ਅਦ੍ਵੈ ਅਬਿਨਾਸਿ ਹੈਂ ॥੧੦॥੨੬੨॥ Look that up in Akal Ustat. So this gurmukhi - ਮਹਾਂਦੇਵ ਕੌ ਕਹਤ ਸਦਾ ਸ਼ਿਵ ॥ ਨਿਰੰਕਾਰ ਕਾ ਚੀਨਤ ਨਹਿ ਭਿਵ ॥੩੯੨॥ Cannot mean what you think it means -He calls Shiva “The Eternal Lord, “but he does not know the secret of the Formless Lord.392. If it does not mean what you think it means then what does it mean? What it is talking about is this- ਮਹਾਂਦੇਵ ਕੌ ਕਹਤ ਸਦਾ ਸ਼ਿਵ ॥ ਨਿਰੰਕਾਰ ਕਾ ਚੀਨਤ ਨਹਿ ਭਿਵ ॥੩੯੨॥They keep saying, Mahadev means Sada Shiv but they do not understand who Mahadev or Sada Shiv is, in their experience. In Shaiv religions ਮਹਾਂਦੇਵ, ਸਦਾ ਸ਼ਿਵ, ਨਿਰੰਕਾਰ are three names of Supreme God. It's like saying - You call Supreme God as Supreme God but you do not know what Supreme God is. This sentence is like me (Bhagat) saying to you (Paapiman) - You say that "Vishnu" is a name of the Almighty God but you do not understand what any of that means. The principle here is this - Simply knowing the meaning of one of names of God, does not give you access to the knowledge of God. Language does not give Brahmgyan, exploration of one's inner Atma, who is Parmatma, gives Brahmgyan. Bro, can you please explain the verses below? Who is Bishan, Mahesh, etc, in the verses below? Kaal purakh kee dehm(i) kotik bisan mahays| kot(i) indr brahmaa kithay rav sas(i) kror jalays In the Timeless God's formless body, reside hundreds of millions of Vishnus and Shivas. There are hundreds of millions of heavens, Brahmas, suns, moons and other deities. Bhul chuk maaf 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BhagatSingh Posted February 28, 2016 Report Share Posted February 28, 2016 1 hour ago, paapiman said: Bro, can you please explain the verses below? Who is Bishan, Mahesh, etc, in the verses below? Kaal purakh kee dehm(i) kotik bisan mahays| kot(i) indr brahmaa kithay rav sas(i) kror jalays In the Timeless God's formless body, reside hundreds of millions of Vishnus and Shivas. There are hundreds of millions of heavens, Brahmas, suns, moons and other deities. Bhul chuk maaf ਕਾਲ ਪੁਰਖ ਕੀ ਦੇਹਿ ਮੋ ਕੋਟਿਕ ਬਿਸਨ ਮਹੇਸ ॥ ਕੋਟਿ ਇੰਦ੍ਰ ਬ੍ਰਹਮਾ ਕਿਤੇ ਰਵਿ ਸਸਿ ਕ੍ਰੋਰ ਜਲੇਸ ॥੧॥ Well if you approach it completely uninformed, you will think it's saying that Kaal Purush is Supreme God and Vishnu,Shiv, Brahma, Indra, Varun are lesser being, demi-gods, who reside in the supreme God. That type of understanding is fine, if you worship the religion of Kaal Purush, like Kavi Shyam ji. If you keep worshipping Kaal, and go deeper you will be fine. However if you want to have an informed understanding, you will need to understand the meaning, origin and religion of each word involved. So let's look at each word. ਕਾਲ ਪੁਰਖ ਕੀ ਦੇਹਿ ਮੋ ਕੋਟਿਕ ਬਿਸਨ ਮਹੇਸ ॥ ਕੋਟਿ ਇੰਦ੍ਰ ਬ੍ਰਹਮਾ ਕਿਤੇ ਰਵਿ ਸਸਿ ਕ੍ਰੋਰ ਜਲੇਸ ॥੧॥ ਕਾਲ ਪੁਰਖ - here obviously refers Supreme God. In Shaiv Religions, Kaal - Time/death, Purusha - Being/Consciousness. ਕਾਲ ਪੁਰਖ means that being who is ultimately time and death. He is present when everything has ended. He is the end of all things. He is also known as Shri Kaal, Shri Kharag, Mahakal. The supreme destroyer.ਮਹੇਸ - Mahesh -> Maha Ish -> Maha Ishwar literally means Supreme God, Maha- Supreme, Ish - God. Here is the kicker, Mahesh is a synonym of Kaal Purush. In Shaiv Religions, Mahesh refers to Shiv. Shiv is the same thing as Kaal Purush, that which is present when every thing, every existence, has ended. Shiv is also the Supreme Destroyer. ਬਿਸਨ - The One Supreme God, who resides in everything. (Vaishnav religions, see Guru Granth Sahib - ਬਿਸਨ ਕੀ ਮਾਇਆ ਤੇ ਹੋਇ ਭਿੰਨ ॥) ਬ੍ਰਹਮਾ - The One Supreme God, who is the source of everything, (Brahman of Vedant).ਜਲੇਸ - Supreme God, master of celestial waters ie gallaxies (One of the Pre-Vedic Era religion) ਇੰਦ੍ - too means Supreme God, the one who is at the epicenter of all ਇੰਦ੍ਰੀ, senses. (One of the Pre-Vedic Era religion) (These last three religions are not present with us today. These are really old religions that have passed away.) So this sentence is saying- ਕਾਲ ਪੁਰਖ ਕੀ ਦੇਹਿ ਮੋ ਕੋਟਿਕ ਬਿਸਨ ਮਹੇਸ ॥ ਕੋਟਿ ਇੰਦ੍ਰ ਬ੍ਰਹਮਾ ਕਿਤੇ ਰਵਿ ਸਸਿ ਕ੍ਰੋਰ ਜਲੇਸ ॥੧॥Inside Supreme God, there are millions of Supreme God and Supreme God. Millions of Supreme God, Supreme God, and millions of Supreme God. It will appear baffling at first, if you understand the history of each of those words and where it comes from.So how do you interpret it?1. Energetic Interpretation ਕਾਲ ਪੁਰਖ ਕੀ ਦੇਹਿ ਮੋ ਕੋਟਿਕ ਬਿਸਨ ਮਹੇਸ ॥ ਕੋਟਿ ਇੰਦ੍ਰ ਬ੍ਰਹਮਾ ਕਿਤੇ ਰਵਿ ਸਸਿ ਕ੍ਰੋਰ ਜਲੇਸ ॥੧॥Inside Supreme God, there are millions of Supreme God and Supreme God. Millions of Supreme God, Supreme God, and millions of Supreme God. The intent is to blow your mind literally. To increase your spiritual ENERGY. Imagine a supreme God, and then imagine another Supreme God that is bigger than the previous, then imagine another Supreme God is bigger then the ones you just imagined.... keep going. Keep doing this. Imagine a Supreme God that is bigger and better than the one who last imagined, and repeat. If you continue this exercise, you will get to a point where your mind (mun, mat) will see its limit. There is something greater than the Supreme God you last imagined, there is an even greater Supreme God. If oyu keep going then you will go into abstraction. You will see that you can imagine a Supreme God that is even greater than all your previous conceptions. This too will hit a limit. If you keep going then you will go into trance of meditation, from all the bhagti you have been doing, and you will see there, in your intuition, that you can imagine a Supreme God that is greater than all your previous imaginations. If you keep doing this then you will reach enlightenment because you will see that the Supreme God is greater than anything you can ever comprehend, it is beyond comprehension. If oyu keep doing this you will become Supreme God because you will see that you are that which you were imagining. Then the next day you will turn into a little B**chy douchebag again and your tea will too hot, and the weather will be too cold or some other petty shit. You'll whine, I am too tired, and complain about other physical ailments. You will complain about your problems, and how people on the forums don't do this or that, and you will suffer. But you will be different in some way. ;) 2. Converging Religions Interpretation ਕਾਲ ਪੁਰਖ ਕੀ ਦੇਹਿ ਮੋ ਕੋਟਿਕ ਬਿਸਨ ਮਹੇਸ ॥ ਕੋਟਿ ਇੰਦ੍ਰ ਬ੍ਰਹਮਾ ਕਿਤੇ ਰਵਿ ਸਸਿ ਕ੍ਰੋਰ ਜਲੇਸ ॥੧॥Inside Supreme God, there are millions of Supreme God and Supreme God. Millions of Supreme God, Supreme God, and millions of Supreme God. These are referring to Supreme God as described by various religions, and various names. So read it as just that, many ways to describe one God. So when you consider the meaning of the words as described above, you will see they are names of Supreme God from various Indian Religions. (Some of which have died out, whereas others are still with us.) reads - ਕਾਲ ਪੁਰਖ ਕੀ ਦੇਹਿ ਮੋ ਕੋਟਿਕ ਬਿਸਨ ਮਹੇਸ ॥ ਕੋਟਿ ਇੰਦ੍ਰ ਬ੍ਰਹਮਾ ਕਿਤੇ ਰਵਿ ਸਸਿ ਕ੍ਰੋਰ ਜਲੇਸ ॥੧॥Inside Supreme God, as described by the religion of Kavi Shyam, there are millions of Supreme God as described by the religion of Guru Granth Sahib and millions Supreme God as described by this other religion. Millions of Supreme God of one religion, Supreme God of another religion, and millions of Supreme God of all kinds of religions. In other words -All religions are describing the same Supreme God in many many ways. All those ways of describing the Supreme God are all part of the body of Supreme God. So all religions and their names for the Supreme God such as Kaal Purush, Mahesh, Vishnu, Brahma, Indra, Varun, all this religions, philosophies and descriptions, all these ways of understanding are all part of the body of the Supreme God. They are all names of the Absolute God. ---------- PS Paapiman, you do a lot of study already but you have to go deeper and find the jewel within. In order to go deeper, you must consider - 1. doing study of different religions and 2. doing naam simran and bhagti of your favourite God/religion, as part of your daily discipline, only then will your immense study be successful. Only then will you understand the secrets of Nirankar. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
amardeep Posted February 28, 2016 Report Share Posted February 28, 2016 Bhagat Singh ji: How do you interpret the Zafarnama? There is nothing in the many theological sections that sets it apart from any other Muslim text. Would you argue that the author is Muslim then? 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted February 29, 2016 Report Share Posted February 29, 2016 again lecturing people like you are enlightened etc justmakes you look conceited. also you seem to have a conclusion/preconcieved notions first, them intepret everything according to that. isnt that backwards reasoning? (not to talk about you directly, but your way of reasoning). doesnt the Pauri in Japji clearly state that trimurti- Brahma, Vishnu and Shiva, are sons of Mahamaya? arent demigods describedin different realms actually worship the Supreme Himself? 'So Dar' etc isnt there a line in Dasam Granth that says calling Vishnu 'Achutyam' is wrong? Bachitar Natak I think. I dont actually like 'quoting' Gurbani in order to 'prove a point' beause I think it is disrespectful. So God forgive me in this instance (which I think is quite benign), Devi devaa moolu hai Maya Maya mohe devee sabhi devaa (above found from a Gurbani.org article, are quotes from SGGS) Actually you hear alot of this idea, I think, in Gurbani. That even Shiv ji couldnt find God's Limit. and yes I understand what you are trying to say about different sects having different language for God etc thats valid but its not the whole story 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted February 29, 2016 Report Share Posted February 29, 2016 7 hours ago, amardeep said: Bhagat Singh ji: How do you interpret the Zafarnama? There is nothing in the many theological sections that sets it apart from any other Muslim text. Would you argue that the author is Muslim then? you're always bringing up Zafarnama. it is of dubious origin anyway 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted February 29, 2016 Report Share Posted February 29, 2016 and what 'many theological' sections are here in the Zafarnama??? are you talking about a different Zafarnama? 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted February 29, 2016 Report Share Posted February 29, 2016 "Simply knowing the meaning of one of names of God, does not give you access to the knowledge of God. Language does not give Brahmgyan, exploration of one's inner Atma, who is Parmatma, gives Brahmgyan." what exactly are you saying here? you sound like some Advaitin who is discounting Naam Bhakti. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted February 29, 2016 Report Share Posted February 29, 2016 I think you are overreaching Bhagat Singh. You are trying to speak from a level I seriously doubt you are at. Better to talk form your own level then try to talk from a level you havent obtained. All this excess theorising may just lead to confusion. e.g. saying 'all gods are parts of Gods body' etc there is a difference between knowing this and conceptualising it. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BhagatSingh Posted February 29, 2016 Report Share Posted February 29, 2016 7 hours ago, amardeep said: Bhagat Singh ji: How do you interpret the Zafarnama? There is nothing in the many theological sections that sets it apart from any other Muslim text. Would you argue that the author is Muslim then? If that's the case, then the real question is - Is there anything in Zafarnama that sets its theology apart from other writings in Dasam Granth? (aside from the change in language) In Islam they believe something akin to Dvait philosophy, that is God is completely separate from his creation. In Vishisht Advait philosophy, God is a part of his creation. He is not entirely one with his creation (Pure Advait philosophy) and he is not entirely separate from his creation (Dvait philosophy), in a nutshell. Dasam Granth follows this pattern as well as Guru Granth Sahib, of Vishisht Advat philosophy. You can see Bhagat Kabir ji argue will Mullahs using this point of Vishisht Advait, that "Mullah why do you kill chickens when there is God inside it". So the real question is - Does the Zafarnama mention Vishisht Advait philosophy using Islamic terminology? or Does it only embody Dvait philoshophy as taught by Islam? 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Harman deep singh Posted February 29, 2016 Report Share Posted February 29, 2016 Please allow me clarify this Bhagauti for Sikhs means Bhagwaan God Yup it also mean goddess but for Hindus not for Sikhs Nobody can imply their meaning on our words forcefully Guru g didn't imply bhagauti as goddess in ardaas Some people will try to create misunderstanding between innocent Sikhs to promote their Devi So here is fact :- Our father is our father but for some human he is uncle He is son to somebody (our grandma) He is husband to somebody (our mother) Can we call him son or uncle? Can we call our relative = father? Like that A word have different meanings Somebody uses it for meaning While other uses same word for another meaning Then how can hindu or manmukh completely imply their meaning of words to words used by Guru g Now another Fact Giani maskeen g say that Parmatama is shakti But our Hindu brothers call shakti as Devi Does it mean shakti is Devi only? They call it devi coz they believe shakti is female (strength as male) But does that mean shakti is female ? Not right ? It don't have gender So they got their own theories an mechanism Bringing them into Sikhism is waste lol Bhul chuk maaf 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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