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What Is Bhagauti?


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15 hours ago, BhagatSingh said:

If that's the case, then the real question is - Is there anything in Zafarnama that sets its theology apart from other writings in Dasam Granth?
(aside from the change in language)

In Islam they believe something akin to Dvait philosophy, that is God is completely separate from his creation.

In Vishisht Advait philosophy, God is a part of his creation. He is not entirely one with his creation (Pure Advait philosophy) and he is not entirely separate from his creation (Dvait philosophy), in a nutshell. Dasam Granth follows this pattern as well as Guru Granth Sahib, of Vishisht Advat philosophy. You can see Bhagat Kabir ji argue will Mullahs using this point of Vishisht Advait, that "Mullah why do you kill chickens when there is God inside it".

So the real question is - Does the Zafarnama mention Vishisht Advait philosophy using Islamic terminology? or Does it only embody Dvait philoshophy as taught by Islam?

Bro you can't answer a question with a question. Please answer my question. Would you argue that the author of the Zafarnama is Muslim if it fits into Islamic theology?

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6 hours ago, amardeep said:

Bro you can't answer a question with a question. Please answer my question. Would you argue that the author of the Zafarnama is Muslim if it fits into Islamic theology?

it is (allegedly) addressed to a muslim (Aurangzeb), so written in terms suitable to him.  Its a letter, not a devotional text.  You still havent answered my question about where exactly the 'theology' in the letter is?

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something comes to mind.  earlier i mentioned the Japji pauri on Mahamaya.  but the language is not 'three sons' but ' tin chele parvaan' (three students who are approved).  So I don't know what is implied in the Pauri.

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10 hours ago, Guest guest said:

oh I see Amandeep, you are indriectly refering to the other thread where Bhagat Singh says parts of Dasam Granth are written by a Shakta (worshipper of God as Devi).

There is ustat of God in many sections of the Zafarnama. Especially the beginning. I Refer to these as theological sections.

 

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23 hours ago, amardeep said:

Bro you can't answer a question with a question. Please answer my question. Would you argue that the author of the Zafarnama is Muslim if it fits into Islamic theology?

I was not answering your question. I was giving you the right set of questions to ask.

 

The quality of the questions determines the quality of answers.

This is the wrong question to ask - Would you argue that the author of the Zafarnama is Muslim if it fits into Islamic theology?

The is the correct question to ask - Does the Zafarnama mention Vishisht Advait philosophy using Islamic terminology? or Does it only embody Dvait philoshophy as taught by Islam?

Do you see why?

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13 hours ago, amardeep said:

There is ustat of God in many sections of the Zafarnama. Especially the beginning. I Refer to these as theological sections.

 

They are not differnt from other invocations in Sri Dasam Granth.  Obviously its written in Farsi, but particulars of Islam are not refered to, the word Allah is not used and there is no reference to the Islamic Prophet.  I do not see any particular philosophy written there.

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13 hours ago, amardeep said:

Why dont you register with a proper user name? You've been writing in quite a lot of threads and it's confusing for members here when they dont know Who they are writing to

but why is it confusing?  we should concentrate on the matter being discussed, rather than who posted what

i don't mind when i see other guests add in discussion, nor do i find it confusing.

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5 hours ago, BhagatSingh said:

I was not answering your question. I was giving you the right set of questions to ask.

 

The quality of the questions determines the quality of answers.

This is the wrong question to ask - Would you argue that the author of the Zafarnama is Muslim if it fits into Islamic theology?

The is the correct question to ask - Does the Zafarnama mention Vishisht Advait philosophy using Islamic terminology? or Does it only embody Dvait philoshophy as taught by Islam?

Do you see why?

i agree you using questions to be evasive.  why dont you just say 'i think its vishisht advait using Islamic terminology'. 

also the terminology isnt Islamic, a person writting about God (say a Christian or Parsi) in Farsi would also use these Farsi words.

I don't think we can deduce much philosophically like this btw.  For example, even Shankara wrote hymns like 'Bhaja Govindam'.

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1 hour ago, amardeep said:

Bro. Just answer the question.

Another thing, - can you give some examples of how the theology of Dasam Granth compositions contradict that of the Sri Guru Granth?

ABC before XYZ. You have to learn about the qualities that make them different.
You have to understand why there is a difference between the question you asked and the question I asked.

Last time, I tried giving examples and going into it straight away, I felt like we got nowhere. Neither you nor Samurai nor Ragmaala seemed to get it. I don't know about Chatanga, he never commented again.

I can't keep pushing boulders up mountains and then have them roll back on me 10 minutes later. Like I keep explaining Vishnu ji to Paapiman and everytime he posts about him, its like he is back to square one.

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10 minutes ago, Lucky said:

What is the meaning of ''var sri bhagauti ji"  as per ardas ? ........... I can't see if anyone has actually answered that on the thread.

Bro, it is referring to the power/energy of the Almighty Lord, Waheguru.

Analogy - Waheguru is like a fist and the energy/impact/impulse/power (when a person punches/hits something) created by it, is Sri Bhagauti jee.

 

Bhul chuk maaf

 

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28 minutes ago, Lucky said:

What is the meaning of ''var sri bhagauti ji"  as per ardas ? ........... I can't see if anyone has actually answered that on the thread.

Also Paaji, Mata Chandi jee is different from Mata Durga jee. Mata Chandi jee, who was worshiped by the demons, had to play a Charitar and transform herself into Mata Durga jee, to annihilate the demons. That is why, the name of one of the Gurbanis in Sri Dasam Granth Sahib jee, is Sri Chandi Charitar. This is a very deep theory. 

Mata Chandi jee sits on a white lion, unlike Mata Durga jee, who sits on a brown/yellow one.

Daas has very minimal knowledge of Sri Dasam Granth Sahib jee. May be someone, who has more knowledge, can expand and provide further details.

 

Bhul chuk maaf

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1 hour ago, paapiman said:

Also Paaji, Mata Chandi jee is different from Mata Durga jee. Mata Chandi jee, who was worshiped by the demons, had to play a Charitar and transform herself into Mata Durga jee, to annihilate the demons. That is why, the name of one of the Gurbanis in Sri Dasam Granth Sahib jee, is Sri Chandi Charitar. This is a very deep theory. 

Mata Chandi jee sits on a white lion, unlike Mata Durga jee, who sits on a brown/yellow one.

Daas has very minimal knowledge of Sri Dasam Granth Sahib jee. May be someone, who has more knowledge, can expand and provide further details.

 

Bhul chuk maaf

Paapiman ji,

Durga & Chandi are just superficial Mythological Characters. We don't need to go ahead explaining how these Mythological characters sit, on the type of animals they it,, their colors etc. etc. 
Gurbani/Guru Sahib used them just as a reference for the people of that era to teach them about the Eternal truth. Guru Sahiban had a distinctive way to teach truth by using references of the popular mythological characters of that time.

Now, as far as "Chandi Charitar" or "Var Bhagauti Ji Ki" is concerned, I will try to explain it in another post. 

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